Neuroscience Expert (Dr. Tara Swart): Evidence We Can Communicate After Death!

Exploring Communication with the Deceased

Introduction to the Concept

• Dr. Tara Swart, a neuroscientist and psychiatrist, discusses the taboo surrounding communication with those who have passed away, emphasizing her professional background.

• She expresses certainty about her findings regarding this phenomenon, stating she is "100% sure" of what she has discovered.

Personal Journey and Motivation

• Dr. Swart shares her personal loss of her husband to leukemia and how it led her to seek signs from him after his passing.

• Her quest for understanding prompted her to explore scientific evidence supporting the possibility of such communication.

Challenging Conventional Beliefs

• Dr. Swart asserts that humans are capable of much more than commonly believed, suggesting that our brains limit our potential.

• She reveals that humans possess 34 senses rather than the traditionally accepted five, challenging listeners' perceptions of human capabilities.

Implications of Expanded Understanding

• The discussion pivots to how these expanded senses could lead individuals to realize their full potential beyond current limitations.

• Dr. Swart reflects on her experiences over the past four years, questioning whether she was experiencing mental illness or an expansion of consciousness due to her explorations.

Unveiling a Personal Secret

• The conversation hints at a significant secret related to Dr. Swart's personal life that she had not previously shared during their last meeting.

What Happens After Loss?

The Impact of Grief

• The speaker reflects on the loss of her husband, Robin, who passed away from leukemia in 2021, just two days before their fourth wedding anniversary.

• She describes the overwhelming devastation of grief and credits her supportive community for helping her cope during this challenging time.

• Despite being a neuroscientist and psychiatrist, she felt lost and broken after his death but began noticing robins frequently appearing in her garden, which she found significant.

Spiritual Experiences Post-Loss

• Six weeks after Robin's passing, she experienced a vivid encounter where she felt his presence beside her bed, describing it as a hazy version of him pushing through to be seen.

• In her desperation to connect with him again, she consulted mediums but was ultimately disappointed by their lack of insight. This led her to explore self-directed communication with the deceased.

Researching Communication Beyond Death

• The speaker realized that communicating with those who have passed requires mutual understanding—akin to learning a new language together.

• She expresses confidence (100%) in having discovered ways to communicate with the deceased through research conducted over the past few years.

Challenging Perspectives on Grief

• The interviewer acknowledges the significance of these claims and prepares to challenge them by asking questions that viewers might have regarding such profound topics.

• They discuss how this journey began following Robin's death and the disappointment faced when seeking answers from mediums.

Expanding Understanding Through Science

• The speaker emphasizes that both parties must learn to communicate effectively after death; this realization sparked her scientific inquiry into consciousness beyond physical existence.

• She recounts an intense moment at Robin's passing when she recognized that his essence was no longer present in his body, prompting further exploration into life after death.

Exploring Human Senses

• Questions arise about whether communication can extend beyond interactions with the deceased; exploring additional senses could enhance connections among living individuals as well.

Understanding Grief and Trauma Through Physical Manifestations

The Impact of Breathing and Trauma on the Body

• The speaker discusses how breathing techniques can influence physical and emotional states, hinting at a connection between breath work and trauma response.

Personal Experience with Grief

• The speaker reflects on their emotional state leading up to the anniversary of a significant loss, noting an unexpected onset of physical pain and depression that lasted several weeks.

• They recount checking for clinical depression criteria but found they did not meet all requirements, yet still experienced profound physical discomfort.

• A realization dawned when they traced back to October 4th—the day they took their loved one home to die—indicating that unresolved trauma manifested as physical pain.

Understanding Trauma's Residual Effects

• The speaker emphasizes the importance of somatic therapies (e.g., massage, dance, art therapy) in addressing trauma that traditional talking therapies may not reach.

• They explain how trauma can inhibit speech-related brain functions, leading to feelings of being "speechless" or "dumbfounded," suggesting that unarticulated trauma resides in the body.

Signs from Beyond: Connection with the Deceased

• After their loved one's death, the speaker experienced unusual coldness in their body, which they later connected to their deceased loved one's condition in a morgue setting.

• Over time, they learned to ask for signs from beyond and began receiving them more frequently, indicating a developing sensitivity or awareness towards these experiences.

Navigating Mental Health During Grief

• The speaker describes experiencing thought insertion—a symptom associated with psychosis—while grappling with grief. This led them to empathize deeply with others who lack resources during such times.

• They draw parallels between grief and psychosis due to neurotransmitter changes in the brain during intense emotional distress.

Cultivating Belief in Signs from Beyond

• When asked about cultivating belief in signs from beyond, the speaker likens it to building muscle through exercise; it requires practice over time.

• They assert that belief is foundational for accessing other dimensions or dynamics related to grief and loss.

Scientific Rigor vs. Spiritual Beliefs

Exploring Open-Mindedness and Connection to Nature

The Importance of Open-Mindedness

• The speaker emphasizes the value of being open-minded, reflecting on personal experiences that have led to a change in perspective throughout their life.

• They reference psychologist Carl Jung's concept of the collective unconscious, highlighting shared human experiences such as birth, life, and death.

Disconnection from Nature

• The speaker discusses humanity's disconnection from nature as a significant factor contributing to unhappiness, noting that we are all made from elements originating from the Big Bang.

• They illustrate this point using the life cycle of salmon, emphasizing how natural cycles demonstrate renewal and interconnectedness.

Learning from Nature’s Cycles

• The speaker argues for a return to understanding natural cycles, suggesting that questioning established beliefs can lead to new insights about our existence.

• They introduce slime mold as an example of cooperation among single-celled organisms when facing challenges like starvation or extinction.

Symbiotic Relationships in Nature

• Discussion includes how slime molds form structures for survival and how some cells sacrifice themselves for the greater good within these structures.

• The speaker highlights mycelial networks' role in supporting tree roots, illustrating interspecies cooperation and care within ecosystems.

Embracing New Understandings

• Reflecting on advancements like driverless cars, they stress that many concepts once deemed fantastical are now realities due to evolving knowledge.

• The conversation shifts towards consciousness and the importance of raising questions about enlightenment and connection in society.

The Journey Towards Writing "The Signs"

Inspiration Behind Writing

• The speaker shares their unexpected journey toward writing a book titled "The Signs," motivated by a desire to share useful insights with others.

Communication with Robin

• They describe daily communication with Robin through thoughts or messages perceived as external rather than self-generated.

Seeking Signs During Difficult Times

The Significance of the Phoenix Symbol

Choosing Unusual Symbols

• The speaker discusses choosing the Phoenix as a symbol due to its rarity, contrasting it with more common symbols like dogs that one might see daily.

Travel and Timing Challenges

• The speaker recounts a travel experience where they missed a connection in Chicago, leading to delays before filming in LA. They emphasize the importance of direct flights for their schedule.

Emotional Connections and Anniversaries

• The narrative reveals that the speaker's flight was booked on the anniversary of Robin's passing, highlighting emotional significance tied to travel plans.

Confirmation Bias and Perception

• The speaker introduces confirmation bias, explaining how once something is in one's mind (like "Phoenix"), it becomes easier to notice related occurrences in life.

Criteria for Noticing Signs

• A discussion about setting specific criteria for recognizing signs is presented. For example, seeing a symbol three times by a certain time enhances its significance.

Personal Experiences with Trauma and Signs

Walking Past Significant Locations

• The speaker shares an experience walking past University College Hospital, which holds traumatic memories from Robin's treatment. This evokes strong emotions during their walk.

Requesting Signs from Beyond

• In moments of distress while walking past significant places, the speaker mentally requests signs from Robin as reassurance or guidance.

Finding Meaningful Symbols

• Upon reaching Houston station, the speaker finds an elastic band shaped like an infinity sign on the pavement—this symbolizes personal meaning connected to their experiences with Robin.

Understanding Creativity and Mental Health

Art of Noticing

• The concept of "noticing" is discussed as crucial for thriving rather than merely surviving in life; it emphasizes awareness amidst life's rapid pace.

Shared Trait Vulnerability

• The discussion touches on neurosthetics research linking creativity with mental health issues such as depression and schizophrenia, suggesting overlapping neurological traits contribute to heightened creativity among those with mental illness.

Hyperconnectivity Explained

Understanding Creativity and Near-Death Experiences

The Role of Brain Connectivity in Creativity

• The interconnected firing of neurons in the brain enhances creativity by allowing for new ideas to emerge.

• Altered states of consciousness, such as those induced by psychedelics, can lead to heightened perception and awareness of previously unnoticed details.

• Concepts like novelty salience and low latent inhibition suggest that a more open cognitive filter allows individuals to notice important stimuli that would typically be ignored.

Cognitive Flexibility and Psychological States

• High IQ, strong working memory, and cognitive flexibility contribute positively to creative thinking; conversely, low IQ and poor working memory can lead to repetitive thought patterns (perseveration), potentially resulting in psychological crises.

• The speaker reflects on grief as a state similar to psychosis, questioning whether creativity could serve as a pathway back to normalcy or expanded awareness during vulnerable times.

Insights from Near-Death Experiences

• Exploration into near-death experiences reveals phenomena such as terminal lucidity where individuals regain clarity shortly before death despite prior cognitive decline.

• A notable case involves patients who exhibit sudden lucidity hours before passing away, raising questions about brain function at the end of life.

Compelling Stories from Medical Professionals

• Dr. Mary Neil's experience during drowning illustrates a journey beyond life with profound insights about existence after death.

• Dr. Eban Alexander's transformation from atheism to belief in a benevolent deity following his own near-death experience emphasizes the impact these events have on personal beliefs.

Research Findings on Near-Death Experiences

• Dr. Bruce Grayson's extensive research includes over 50 years studying near-death experiences, documenting numerous cases that challenge conventional understanding of consciousness.

• Professor Alexander Bathani’s perspective suggests that moments at the border between life and death may reveal truths about the independent functioning of mind and body.

Understanding Life After Death

Reflections on a Peaceful Passing

• A woman recognized her daughter by name in the hospital, displaying coherent speech and intact memory, suggesting a connection to her past before peacefully passing away that night.

The Mind-Body Connection

• The speaker discusses the surge of neurochemicals as a possible explanation for consciousness but questions how these chemicals can function if neurons are damaged, implying that the mind is not solely derived from physical matter.

Duality of Soul and Body

• The belief is presented that souls and bodies are separate entities, raising questions about the existence and location of the soul beyond physical form.

Energy Beyond Existence

• The speaker posits that energy exists in some form after death, potentially entering new vessels (bodies), aligning with beliefs in reincarnation.

Personal Conviction and Scientific Inquiry

• The speaker expresses personal conviction about life after death based on emotional connections with loved ones, emphasizing subjective experience as valid evidence alongside scientific inquiry.

Challenging Scientific Norms

Consciousness as Fundamental

• References to Dr. David Eagleman’s analogy of the brain as a radio receiving external signals highlight an ongoing debate about consciousness being central to understanding reality rather than mere materialism.

Embracing Curiosity in Science

• The importance of challenging established norms within science is emphasized; scientists should remain curious and open to possibilities beyond current knowledge.

Enhancing Spiritual Connections

Techniques for Heightening Awareness

• Suggestions are made regarding practices like neuroesthetics—appreciating beauty—to enhance one's ability to connect with signs from deceased loved ones.

Nature's Role in Sign Recognition

• Engaging with nature is highlighted as a means to receive signs; observing elements like butterflies or cloud formations can facilitate spiritual connections.

Importance of Community Support

• Community engagement plays a crucial role; supportive conversations can foster openness towards exploring spiritual experiences without skepticism hindering growth.

Rationalizing Coincidence

Statistical Perspective on Coincidences

• A discussion on coincidences suggests they are statistically probable events; if they didn't occur occasionally, it would be considered miraculous due to mathematical improbability.

Openness to Signs

Exploring Purpose and Healing

The Importance of Connection and Purpose

• The speaker emphasizes that believing in something greater than oneself can enhance life, suggesting that mere survival is insufficient for fulfillment.

• A life connected to others and a higher purpose provides meaning, supported by research indicating the health benefits of having such a purpose.

Spirituality vs. Religion

• The speaker clarifies that their transcendent experience is not tied to religion but rather to spirituality, which varies among individuals.

• They express a desire to give voice to those who feel unseen or unheard, highlighting the importance of empathy in their mission.

Intuition and Trauma

• Intuition is described as accessing inner wisdom; it plays a crucial role in interpreting signs related to personal experiences.

• The discussion introduces the concept of trauma being stored in the body, which may not be fully addressed through traditional talking therapies.

Understanding Trauma Storage

• The serotonin hypothesis suggests how trauma imprints on the body, linking physical posture with emotional experiences during stressful times.

• Fascia is identified as an essential connective tissue previously underestimated; its role in holding trauma within the body is now recognized.

Methods for Releasing Trauma

• Physical activities like dancing, singing, and yoga are recommended as effective methods for releasing trauma held in the body.

• Historical practices from ancient cultures demonstrate that expressing grief physically (e.g., wailing or beating chests) was common for processing emotions.

Advice for Healing from Grief

• Individuals grieving should acknowledge their feelings without repression; experiencing emotions fully is vital for healing.

Healing Through Nature and Creativity

The Healing Power of Nature

• Time spent in nature is described as a healing experience, emphasizing the importance of connecting with the natural world for emotional well-being.

• Being open to receiving signs from nature, such as a white feather or a visiting bird, can provide comfort and guidance during times of grief.

Creative Outlets for Grief

• Engaging in creative activities, regardless of artistic skill level, serves as an outlet for processing grief. Drawing or creating art based on emotions can be beneficial.

Intuition and Gut Health

• Strengthening gut health is linked to enhancing intuition. A healthy gut may improve one's ability to interpret signs meaningfully.

Understanding the Gut-Brain Connection

The Importance of Physical Foundations

• The body’s physical health underpins mental faculties and spiritual experiences; thus, maintaining good physical health is crucial.

Bidirectional Communication: Brain-Gut Axis

• Recent research highlights that communication between the brain and gut involves not just two but three components: the brain, gut neurons, and microbiome.

Role of Microbiome in Overall Health

• The trillions of bacteria in our gut influence various bodily systems including immune response and mental health.

Mechanisms of Communication Between Brain and Gut

Vagus Nerve Functionality

• The vagus nerve connects the brain to various organs throughout the body; it plays a significant role in transmitting signals between the brain and gut.

Chemical Messaging Systems

• Various chemical messages (hormonal and non-hormonal), including neurotransmitters produced by immune cells in both the gut and brain, facilitate communication between these systems.

Enhancing Gut Health for Better Mental Functioning

Reducing Inflammation

• Maintaining gut health through prebiotics and probiotics helps reduce inflammation which can enhance cognitive functions like intuition.

Vulnerability of Brain Cells

• The brain's high energy consumption makes it susceptible to oxidative stress; protecting it from free radicals is essential for cognitive longevity.

Homeostasis for Optimal Functioning

Exploring the Benefits of Dark Retreats and Ketone IQ

The Role of Body in Intuition

• The body plays a crucial role in accessing intuition, not just the brain. Therapies such as art-making, drumming, storytelling, dancing, yoga, and movement can enhance this intuitive experience.

Introduction to Ketone IQ

• The speaker discusses their investment in a company called Ketone IQ after experiencing significant benefits from ketosis, including improved focus and mood due to low carbohydrate intake.

Personal Experience with Ketone IQ

• After trying Ketone IQ shots that were sent to them, the speaker noted profound improvements in articulation, focus during workouts, and overall mood stability throughout the day.

Promotion of Ketone IQ

• The speaker encourages listeners to explore the science behind Ketone IQ and offers a discount link for subscriptions while expressing pride in sponsoring their podcast.

Understanding Dark Retreats

• Dark retreats have roots in Tibetan philosophy and ancient civilizations where individuals would undergo periods of darkness for spiritual insights.

Structure of Dark Retreats

• A dark retreat typically lasts from several hours up to 49 days. Participants meditate and practice breath work in complete darkness to emulate near-death experiences.

Experiences During Dark Retreats

• Initially, participants sleep extensively due to melatonin release; over time they begin seeing light patterns or hallucinations which can lead to profound spiritual experiences similar to those reported by near-death experiencers.

Psychological Benefits Post-Retreat

• Individuals emerging from dark retreats often report increased joy for life, reduced fear of death, enhanced compassion towards others, and a willingness to take healthy risks.

Altered States of Consciousness

• Dark retreats are one method among others (like breath work or psychedelics) that induce altered states of consciousness beneficial for personal growth.

Neurochemical Perspectives on Perception Changes

• Discussion on how neurochemicals influence perception during altered states raises questions about whether these experiences reveal different realms or dimensions beyond mere neurological changes.

Research Insights on Breath Work vs. Psychedelics

Exploring Altered States of Consciousness

Ways to Achieve Altered States

• The speaker discusses various methods for achieving altered states of consciousness, emphasizing the profound experiences found in nature and art, particularly ballet.

• Personal anecdotes highlight how witnessing a performance can evoke spiritual experiences, suggesting that such moments can lead to altered states.

Understanding Happiness and Meaning

• The conversation shifts to the significance of understanding life beyond material existence, questioning how this perspective influences concepts of happiness and contentment.

• Research indicates that learning about near-death experiences can provide benefits similar to direct experience, fostering compassion and gratitude among individuals.

Spirituality vs. Materialism

• The discussion emphasizes the need for practices that liberate individuals from material constraints, especially in Western societies, promoting mental and emotional health alongside spirituality.

• Reflecting on ancestral wisdom reveals a connection between intuition and nature, suggesting that modern society often overlooks these essential aspects of life.

Belief in Transcendence

• The speaker posits that believing in something transcendent—whether spiritual or religious—can be beneficial for personal well-being.

• However, there is an acknowledgment that belief systems can also lead to destructive behaviors when taken to extremes.

Purpose and Individualism Crisis

• A critical examination of contemporary society reveals a growing individualism which may contribute to a crisis of meaning as traditional communal ties weaken.

What Does It Mean to Be Unanchored?

The Current State of Disconnection

• The speaker reflects on the feeling of being unanchored in today's society, questioning if this is a widespread sentiment and how individuals can regain their sense of grounding.

• In March 2020, the speaker predicted a significant mental health crisis but also saw potential for a spiritual revolution amidst the pandemic's challenges.

• The discussion highlights various societal issues such as the cost of living crisis, wealth gap, and rising crime rates that contribute to feelings of insecurity and disconnection.

Technology vs. Human Connection

• Despite advancements in technology that connect people more than ever, there is an ironic sense of increased disconnection from genuine human experiences.

• The speaker emphasizes the importance of returning to ancient wisdom and true connections that transcend mere technological interactions.

Defining True Connection

• True connection involves deep relationships with oneself, others, and something greater than oneself; it contrasts with superficial or transactional interactions.

• Meaningful connections are characterized by altruism and contributions to others' well-being rather than self-centeredness.

Personal Experience with Connection

• A personal anecdote illustrates how certain places can trigger emotional responses tied to past experiences, highlighting the complexity of human emotions related to connection.

• The narrative recounts a critical moment when the speaker received urgent news about a loved one’s health crisis, emphasizing urgency in human relationships during times of distress.

Navigating Relationships During Crisis

• As the situation escalated at the hospital, communication became crucial; moments were filled with tension as decisions had to be made quickly regarding care for a loved one.

• The speaker describes navigating medical decisions while balancing trust in healthcare professionals against personal instincts about what was best for her partner's recovery.

Recovery Journey and Reflections on Love

Hospital Discharge and Initial Recovery

• The individual was discharged from the hospital within two days, still requiring oxygen but off IVs. They had to undergo bone marrow tests and receive blood transfusions.

• After some recovery, they returned to London for a second round of treatment, which was described as brutal and ultimately ineffective.

• A female consultant noted significant improvement after a previous visit to Hampshire, suggesting that if conditions changed, they should return to London.

Final Days and Emotional Farewell

• The patient lived for three and a half weeks post-discharge instead of the expected two weeks. In his final moments, he expressed feelings of claustrophobia while lying in bed with the narrator.

• The narrator interpreted this moment as a farewell gesture since the patient passed away two days later.

Grief and Purpose

• The narrator expressed sadness about their loss and emphasized not wanting their partner to be forgotten. They dedicated a book to him.

• There is an acknowledgment of having a purpose in life that remains unfulfilled, which they believe is tied to their late partner's wishes.

Thoughts on Future Relationships

• The narrator reflected on the difficulty of considering love again after experiencing profound unconditional love from their partner Robin.

• Despite wearing wedding rings for over two years out of respect for their relationship, they remain open to love but are not actively seeking it.

Vulnerability and Acceptance

Exploring Love and Grief After Loss

Navigating the Journey of Love Post-Loss

• The speaker reflects on the personal journey of seeking love after losing a partner, asking for advice on whether to pursue new relationships.

• Emphasizes that the decision to enter a relationship again is deeply personal, with varying timelines for healing and readiness among individuals.

• Shares insights from a friend who experienced loss, suggesting that two years may not be sufficient time to heal before seeking new love, which provided relief to the speaker.

• Discusses how friends perceive her as more fragile and vulnerable post-loss, indicating a shift in her emotional state and their protective instincts towards her.

Finding Purpose Through Pain

• The speaker acknowledges that despite initial resistance, she feels compelled to help others through grief due to her own experiences.

• Expresses a desire to support not only those grieving but also anyone struggling with various forms of suffering, highlighting the importance of feeling seen by others.

Questions About Existence and Meaning

• Raises philosophical questions about subjective reality and existence, pondering if there is a karmic purpose behind life experiences.

• Contemplates the significance of human connections and encounters, suggesting that some meetings are not coincidental but rather meaningful.

The Role of Signs in Grief

• Reflects on the chemistry felt during conversations with others as indicative of deeper connections beyond mere chance encounters.

• Discusses how sharing her story with someone skeptical was significant; it highlights the importance of diverse perspectives in understanding grief.

Insights into Animal Perception

• Mentions animals' heightened abilities compared to humans regarding sensing signs or impending death, referencing specific cases like dogs detecting diseases.

Exploring Human Senses and Neuroscience

The Potential of New Medical Tests

• A new swab test is being developed to analyze skin chemicals for predicting Parkinson's disease. This highlights the innovative approaches in medical diagnostics.

Unique Human Abilities

• Some individuals, known as "super smellers," possess heightened olfactory senses, showcasing human variability in sensory perception. Additionally, blind individuals can adapt their visual cortex for echolocation, demonstrating neuroplasticity.

Scientific Discoveries and Skepticism

• Russell Foster proposed that there are cells in the retina beyond rods and cones that help regulate circadian rhythms by sensing light cycles. Initially ridiculed, these melanopsin cells were later confirmed to exist, illustrating how scientific understanding evolves over time.

The Journey of Knowledge

• The discussion reflects on the ongoing quest for knowledge in science, emphasizing that many questions remain unanswered but inspire curiosity about future discoveries. There’s a belief that significant breakthroughs will occur even if current generations may not witness them.

Personal Growth Through Observation

• Noticing beauty in everyday life has become an active practice for one speaker, enhancing gratitude and emotional well-being through increased oxytocin production. This habit encourages sharing positive observations with others to foster collective appreciation.

Coping with Grief and Success

Understanding Skepticism and Open-Mindedness

The Paradox of Knowledge

• The speaker reflects on the idea that knowledge is limited, acknowledging a natural skepticism while also becoming more open-minded through podcasting experiences.

• Engaging in conversations has led to a realization of the vast unknown, pushing the speaker towards an agnostic stance rather than fixed beliefs.

The Challenge of Fixed Beliefs

• Frequent changes in perspective due to new information highlight the importance of not being rigid in one's beliefs, whether religious or atheistic.

• The speaker emphasizes the significance of diversity and connection among individuals who are dreamers and seekers of awareness.

Embracing Healthy Skepticism

• While maintaining skepticism is deemed healthy, there is also a commitment to investigate new ideas presented during discussions.

• Acknowledgment that stepping outside comfort zones can lead to societal progress, as seen throughout history with revolutionary thinkers.

Encouraging Open Dialogue

• The speaker expresses excitement about audience engagement through comments, hoping for shared stories and experiences that foster empathy and understanding.

• A reminder for kindness in discussions surrounding sensitive topics like grief, emphasizing collective human experience.

Closing Reflections and Future Insights

• A question from a previous guest prompts reflection on personal experiences with unconditional love.

• Introduction of Tara's upcoming book "The New Science of How to Trust Your Instincts," which aims to bridge diverse perspectives on reality.

Invitation to Join the Inner Circle

Enhancing Viewer Experience

• The speaker emphasizes their commitment to improving the show weekly by actively listening to audience feedback and selecting desired guests.

• An invitation is extended to 10,000 viewers to join a new private community called "the inner circle," aimed at providing deeper insights into the show's production.

Exclusive Content and Access

• Members of the inner circle will gain access to exclusive materials, including unreleased clips, behind-the-scenes conversations, and episode briefs that are typically not shared with the public.

• The community allows members to influence future content by suggesting interviewees and topics for discussion.

Joining Details