David Sacks on his intellectual and political journey

Defining Social Progress

In this section, the speaker discusses who defines social progress and how it is up to democratic majorities to define it. The speaker argues that the elitist view of a small number of elites who have institutional power suppresses the will of the majority and interferes in elections.

• "That elitist view is that you've just described is the rationalization for uh for a small number of Elites who have institutional power to suppress the will of the majority and interfere in elections."

• "If you truly believe in democracy, you would allow the people to have a voice and then let the chips fall where they may in terms of how they vote."

• "The reason why I've become more populous is because it aligns with civil liberties. There's a natural alliance there between the people and people who want to protect civil liberties versus the elites who want to restrict those Liberties so they can enforce more control."

Introduction

In this section, Eric Tornberg introduces David Sacks as an operator and investor in multiple unicorns. They discuss tracing David's intellectual and political history from his days fighting student activism at Stanford until now.

• "I'm Eric Tornberg, and this is Upstream with Eric Tomberg."

• "David Sacks is known as an operator and investor in multiple unicorns, and most recently, he's a media mogul with All-In. In this episode, we trace David's intellectual and political history from his days fighting student activism at Stanford until now."

Changes in Silicon Valley

In this section, Eric and David discuss the political changes in Silicon Valley over the last 30 years. They talk about how the real distinction today is between the college-educated and those who are not, and how even though two-thirds of the country didn't go to college, their views are not represented in our institutions today.

• "We cover the political changes of the last 30 years of Silicon Valley."

• "The real distinction today is between the college-educated and those who are not. Even though two-thirds of the country didn't go to college, their views are not represented in our institutions today."

Free Speech

In this section, Eric and David discuss PayPal as a metaphor for what's happened in Silicon Valley at large. They talk about how it was started by free speech proponents like Thiel, Elon Musk, and Sacks himself but has become run by people who want to restrict free speech in the name of preventing harm.

• "PayPal was started by free speech proponents like Thiel, Elon Musk, and Sacks himself but has become run by people who want to restrict free speech in the name of preventing harm."

• "If you look at polling from say a decade ago both parties Democrats and Republicans had a consensus in favor of free speech."

• "In recent years it's really changed. Now the emphasis has been on restricting access censorship de-platforming unpersoning."

Political Opposition

In this section, Eric asks David if he or his colleagues have tried to communicate with PayPal management regarding their policies on restricting access to payments for political opposition. David responds that it's pretty far removed at this point and that the only thing they respond to is public pressure.

• "It's pretty far removed at this point. I don't think they're gonna reverse course because one of us blobs on a phone call."

• "The only thing they respond to really is public pressure, and so us saying what we think publicly is probably as much as we can do."

PayPal and the Blacklist

In this section, the speaker discusses how PayPal is working with groups like The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and Southern Poverty Law Center to define The Blacklist. These groups have been historically known for their noble mission of standing up against anti-Semitism or discrimination but have now been hijacked by a more conventional left-wing agenda.

Groups Defining The Blacklist

• PayPal is working with groups like The ADL and SPLC to define The Blacklist.

• These groups were originally created to support the mission of standing up against anti-Semitism or discrimination.

• However, in recent years, these organizations have been hijacked by a more conventional left-wing agenda.

• They are free to advocate on behalf of the cause they want but shouldn't be trusted to create blacklists of who should be allowed on the platform because they're highly partisan.

Big Tech Companies and Government Collusion

In this section, the speaker talks about how big tech companies are acting in concert with government officials. There's extensive cooperation between various branches and agencies of the security state and these big tech companies.

Collusion Between Big Tech Companies and Government Officials

• Big tech companies are acting in concert with government officials.

• There's extensive cooperation between various branches and agencies of the security state and these big tech companies.

• John Sake was White House press secretary who let out that they were working with right social networks to identify posts to be taken down.

• People supporting a bunch of bills running through Congress right now that would regulate these companies in other ways but are saying that these are private companies and they can do whatever they want.

Big Brother Social Credit System

In this section, the speaker talks about how we're getting to the point where it's looking more and more like the destination here is a big brother social credit-like system.

Big Brother Social Credit System

• We're getting to the point where it's looking more and more like the destination here is a big brother social credit-like system.

• People in power live in such a bubble where everybody agrees with them and they have so much entitlement that any criticism or public debate whatsoever that's deemed to be harassment and again is jeopardizing their safety.

The Rise of Political Monoculture in Silicon Valley

In this section, the speaker discusses the rise of political monoculture in Silicon Valley and how it has evolved over time.

The Beginning of Political Monoculture

• Silicon Valley has always been very liberal with 90%+ Democrat party affiliation.

• There was a turn between Tech and media where media started to become more hostile towards Tech.

• Trump's election in 2016 became an accelerant for the flip where social networking became the scapegoat for his election.

Scapegoating Social Networking

• The narrative flipped after Trump's election, blaming social networking for his win.

• Facebook and social networking were scapegoated for Trump's election, but there are other explanations such as Hillary Clinton running a poor campaign.

• Big tech companies began questioning themselves and their role in politics.

Co-opting Power to Control Narrative

• There are legitimate questions about the power of big tech monopolies, but instead of limiting their power, politicians want to co-opt it to censor political opponents and control the narrative.

• Politicians want big tech companies to take down more content even though they could not pass a bill directly taking down that content.

Pressure on Companies to Engage in Censorship

In this section, the speaker discusses how companies are pressured from both the top and bottom to engage in censorship. The pressure from the top comes from those in power who want certain content censored, while the pressure from the bottom comes from activist employees.

Top-Down Pressure

• Companies are pressured by those in power to censor opponents of people in power.

• This has created a pressure cooker situation for leaders of these companies.

Bottom-Up Pressure

• Activist employees also put pressure on companies to engage in censorship.

• Leaders of these companies have not been courageous enough to stand up against this pressure.

Activism as a CEO vs VC

In this section, the speaker talks about their experience with activism as a CEO versus as a VC.

Experience as a CEO

• When they were doing PayPal, there was a strong libertarian culture and no activism.

• When they were doing Yammer, which was 2008 to 2012, there were no problems with activist employees.

Experience as a VC

• As a VC, they have experienced activism among their portfolio companies' employees.

Rise of Activism Phenomenon

In this section, the speaker discusses how activism is now prevalent across virtually every major institution in society and how it can only happen due to a shift in attitudes of an entire class of people.

Prevalence Across Major Institutions

• Activism is now prevalent across virtually every major institution in society, including corporate America, non-profits, NGOs, think tanks, media and Hollywood.

Shift in Attitudes

• Activism can only happen due to a shift in attitudes of an entire class of people.

• The biggest divide in the country is on the single variable of whether you have a college degree or not.

The Influence of Universities on Society

In this section, the speaker discusses how universities have been taken over by the far left and how this has led to a divide between the beliefs of the professional class and working-class people.

The Far Left Takeover of Universities

• The quid pro quo of our civilization is that if you want economic and social advancement that a college degree grants you, you have to go to one of these schools and submit to voluntary re-education for four years.

• Graduates come out with far-left views which are different from those held by most people in the country.

• Three groups emerge: true believers (10%), rebels (1%), and herd (89%).

• The herd tends to populate the ranks of professional elites while true believers take up low-paying jobs such as think tanks, foundation world, HR police at corporations, etc.

Conflict Between Professional Class and Working-Class People

• Two-thirds of the country is working-class while only one-third is professional class.

• Professional class holds beliefs that are at odds with working-class people.

• Democracy means letting the majority exercise its will but institutions are doing things like censoring one side of debate in name of democracy.

Elections and Big Tech Companies

• Big tech companies engage in shadow banning, broad-scale censorship, putting their thumb on scale during elections.

• Fighting for democracy or journalism really means fighting for Democrats or journalists since it's a class-based thing rather than an idea-based thing.

Orwellian Relabeling of Terms

In this section, the speaker talks about how far-left groups use relabeling of terms to silence criticism and attack those who disagree with them.

Far-Left's Relabeling of Terms

• Far-left groups use relabeling of terms to silence criticism.

• Criticism of far-left is labeled as harassment while they are allowed to criticize and attack others.

• Banning and shadow banning are used by far-left groups to de-platform people who disagree with them.

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Evolution of Views

In this section, the speaker talks about how his views have evolved over time and how the world has changed around him.

Change in Views

• The speaker's views have not changed much on old social issues like gay marriage, cannabis legalization, and abortion.

• Being a free speech advocate was a liberal position in the 1970s but is now considered a right-wing position.

• The elite in our country has bought into very liberal ideas regarding censorship and restrictions.

Old Social Issues

• The speaker has always been pretty liberal on old social issues.

• Believes that we need to find more of a compromise on abortion that will look like Europe.

American Foreign Policy and Realism

In this section, the speaker discusses his views on American foreign policy and how they have evolved over time. He talks about the Iraq War, Afghanistan, and other interventions in the Middle East that have cost trillions of dollars and resulted in staggering death tolls. He also mentions how the same people who got us involved in these wars are still in power.

Evolution of Views on American Foreign Policy

• The speaker supported the Iraq War initially because he believed what the Bush Administration told us about Saddam Hussein's alleged ties to Al-Qaeda and WMD programs.

• However, he later realized that it was all lies and that the war did nothing to improve American security. Instead, it destabilized the Middle East, turned Iraq into an Iranian proxy state, created a huge refugee problem that spilled over into Syria, and resulted in staggering death tolls.

• As a result of these experiences, the speaker has become more of a realist when it comes to American foreign policy. He believes that American foreign policy has been overly activist and interventionist and has blown up in our faces.

• The same people who got us involved in these wars are still there - the foreign policy establishment or "The Blob." There has been very little accountability for all those people. Most of them have moved to the Democratic party.

Realism vs Interventionism

• The realist camp accurately predicted what would happen with our interventions in the Middle East but is out of favor with elites in Washington because they wanted to restrain American involvement.

• During Trump's administration, there was a series of hoaxes related to Russia collusion that scapegoated not just social networking but also Vladimir Putin for Trump's election. The left became so anti-Russia that they would be pro-war and pro-involvement in a way that they never would have been in the past.

Perception of Putin and Russia

In this section, the speaker discusses how the perception of Putin has contributed to the way we perceive the Ukraine war. He also talks about how some factions on the right have glamorized or sympathized with elements of Russian culture, but he believes that this idea is overblown.

Perception of Putin

• The intense russophobia that has developed in recent years has led us to view Putin as a personification of evil.

• While Putin is a thug who has made Russia more authoritarian, we should not view him as an embodiment of all things bad.

• The left accuses the right of holding up Putin as a leader to emulate, but this is not true for most people on the right.

Glamorizing Russian Culture

• Some factions on the right may sympathize with certain elements of Russian culture, such as criticizing America's social issues.

• However, this idea is overblown and not representative of most people on the right.

Position on Ukraine War

In this section, the speaker talks about his position on the Ukraine war and how he is often accused of being pro-Putin because he does not want to get into World War III over Ukraine. He emphasizes that his stance is based on pursuing America's vital interests and protecting civil liberties and freedoms.

Stance on Ukraine War

• The speaker does not want to get into World War III over Ukraine.

• He wants American foreign policy to be guided by what's in America's best interest.

• His stance does not mean that he is pro-Russian or sympathetic towards Putin's regime.

• Accusations that people on the right are sympathetic towards Putin are overblown.

Regulation of Big Tech

In this section, the speaker discusses his views on regulating big tech companies. He believes that these monopolies are incredibly powerful and will eventually dominate all downstream business opportunities. He argues that regulation is necessary to protect innovation and prevent platform owners from usurping value for themselves.

Need for Regulation

• The speaker believes that big tech companies have become too powerful and need to be regulated.

• As their business gets more mature, they will start to dominate all downstream business opportunities.

• There is a risk with regulations that they may entrench the existing power structure if they don't get them right.

• The speaker still supports regulation because he thinks it's necessary to protect innovation and prevent platform owners from usurping value for themselves.

Government Intervention and Monopolies

In this section, the speaker discusses how government intervention in Microsoft's case prevented them from dominating the web and becoming a monopoly. The speaker argues that it is worth taking steps to restrain monopolies as they eventually become gatekeepers who favor themselves at the expense of innovative startups.

Microsoft's Potential Dominance

• If there was no government intervention, Microsoft could have seamlessly moved from dominating desktop operating systems to controlling a vast part of the web.

• They could have dominated search and extended their desktop monopoly into controlling a significant portion of the web.

• The government's interference with Microsoft through lawsuits crippled the company, which allowed other companies to innovate and create their businesses.

Restraining Monopolies

• It is worth taking steps to restrain monopolies because they will eventually become gatekeepers who favor themselves at the expense of innovative startups.

• Without restraint, Silicon Valley may look like Hollywood where creativity and entrepreneurship are constrained by studios that control everything.

• Limiting mergers and acquisitions (M&A) should be done in a targeted way since M&A creates healthy startup ecosystems.

Interfering with Acquisitions

In this section, the speaker discusses whether interfering with acquisitions is an effective way to regulate monopolies. The speaker argues that limiting M&A should be done in a targeted way since good outcomes are necessary to justify risks taken on by startups.

Limiting Mergers and Acquisitions

• Limiting M&A is not necessarily the way to go since there are so few good outcomes in the startup world.

• Limiting M&A forecloses exit opportunities, which are necessary to justify risks taken on by startups.

• Acquirers are not clear on what's being stopped, and interfering with acquisitions that don't seem problematic from a competitive standpoint can hinder nascent markets.

Government Intervention

• The government should not block acquisitions but instead focus on creating an environment where companies can build capabilities to test whether there's something in nascent markets.

Enforcing Fairness and Censorship on Tech Companies

In this section, the speaker discusses the need to prevent tech companies from giving preference to their own apps over third-party apps. He also talks about the issue of censorship and how it is difficult to get a bipartisan agreement on it.

Preventing Preference for Own Apps

• The big picture is not letting tech companies do things that they exempt themselves from.

• Section 230 is a problem because tech companies are having their cake and eating it too by exercising editorial control while being treated as distributors.

• Social networks acting as true distributors should be able to keep Section 230 provision.

Issue of Censorship

• There is no bipartisan majority to agree on censorship.

• Tech companies have been exercising editorial control over what gets published on their platforms, which fundamentally doesn't make sense.

• Democrats want more censorship while Republicans want less, making it difficult to agree on a solution.

Free Speech and Social Progress

In this section, the speaker responds to a hypothetical question about whether censorship is necessary for social progress. He argues that allowing people to have a voice aligns with civil liberties and democracy.

Free Speech and Civil Liberties

• The goal of social progress depends on democratic majorities' definition of it.

• Elitist views rationalize suppressing the will of the majority and interfering in elections.

• Allowing people to have a voice aligns with civil liberties, which naturally align with populism.

Democracy and Censorship in the Middle East

In this section, the speaker talks about how democracy is viewed in the Middle East and how it relates to censorship.

Democracy and Censorship in the Middle East

• Erdogan in Turkey argues that democracy is just a bus that people take to get where they want to go.

• No further bullet points.

Defining Social Progress

In this section, the speaker discusses the idea of social progress and how it relates to civil liberties and free speech.

The Logical Conclusion of Liberalism

• Some argue that the current state of society is the logical conclusion of liberalism.

• This argument suggests that we don't need civil liberties or free speech anymore.

• However, the speaker disagrees with this argument and believes that those who make it do not truly believe in free speech or democracy.

The End of History

• In the 90s, there was a popular belief that we were reaching the end of history because democratic capitalism was seen as an ideal end state for everyone in the world.

• However, cultures and civilizations are stubborn things, and other cultures in the world are not embracing democratic capitalism.

• It will take time for these cultures to evolve towards democratic capitalism.

Hubris and Tolerance

• As we approached what was believed to be the end of history, our biggest problem was not boredom but hubris.

• When you have all the answers, there's no reason to allow a debate or a free marketplace of ideas.

• This led to a loss of tolerance and an acceptance of censorship.

Institutional Reform

In this section, institutional reform is discussed as a means to recapture institutions captured by non-democratic groups.

Recapturing Institutions

• There has been talk about institutional capture by non-democratic groups that do not represent the majority view.

• To recapture these institutions, government involvement may be necessary or new institutions may need to be created.

Institutional Reform and Democratic Change

In this section, the speakers discuss the need for institutional reform and democratic change to address the excesses of big tech companies. They also talk about Elon Musk's role in resetting Twitter and how his actions could inspire other billionaires to take similar steps.

Need for Multi-Faceted Solution

• The problem of big tech companies requires a multi-faceted solution.

• This includes creating new institutions and alternatives, revitalizing existing institutions, and using democratic accountabilities to rein in excesses.

• The power of these monopolies needs to be reigned in through state power.

Role of Democratic Change

• Democratic change is necessary to rein in big tech companies.

• There needs to be government involvement as there is only one Elon Musk who cannot buy every single tech company and reform it.

• Using elected officials to stand up against big corporations can help restore free speech rights and rights to make a living.

Inspiration from Elon Musk

• Larry Page once said he would give all his money to Elon because what he could do with his companies is better than any money he could give to charity.

• Elon's actions in resetting Twitter show that it is possible to run these companies with fewer employees.

• His actions could inspire other billionaires who have ties with existing companies to take similar steps.

The Future of Tech Companies and Censorship

In this section, the speakers discuss the possibility of a tech civil war and censorship in tech companies. They also talk about how exposing conversations around censorship can be a helpful check on monopoly abuse.

Possibility of a Tech Civil War

• There may be a little bit of a tech civil war in the next two years.

• Apple backed off quickly from censoring Twitter after pressure from politicians like DeSantis.

• Politicians telegraphing that censorship would not be acceptable is a helpful check on monopoly abuse.

Censorship in Tech Companies

• Lower-level employees are constantly looking for the next person or group to censor.

• Companies have to think ahead to what the next administration will do, not just what the current one wants.

• Exposing conversations around censorship can be a helpful check on monopoly abuse.

Elon Musk's Character Arc and Strategy

In this section, the speakers discuss Elon Musk's character arc and strategy. They talk about how he appeals directly to people and takes the moral high ground, but there are questions about whether his tweets are always strategic.

Elon Musk's Character Arc

• Elon Musk is going over the heads of elites and appealing directly to people.

• To win this battle, you need to appeal to working-class people who make up two-thirds of the country but don't have institutional power.

• The media has become biased and activist, shaping narratives without pausing to take breath.

Elon Musk's Strategy

• Elon Musk always takes the moral high ground and fights back externally.

• He calls balls and strikes as he sees them, but some people question whether this is always strategic.

• Quibbles aside, the overall point of his tweets is that he appeals directly to people.

Social Media and the Elite

In this section, the speaker discusses how social media was supposed to democratize information and provide an alternative to traditional media. However, instead of providing a platform for the average person to have a voice, content moderation machinery got hijacked by elites who share the same opinions as traditional media.

The Hijacking of Social Media

• The content moderation machinery on social networks like Twitter has been turned into an enforcement arm of traditional media.

• Elon Musk is showing a path to fighting back against this hijacking by not putting up with it.

• The media has said insane things about Elon Musk such as accusing him of being a Thanos-like super villain and starving employees because he charged for lunch.

• Despite liberal elites tearfully saying their goodbyes on Twitter and predicting the site would go down after generous voluntary severance packages were offered, Tesla's site is running just fine.

Threatening Elites' Economic Interests

• Elon Musk's approach threatens the economic interests of left-wing elites who previously believed that holding the right opinions and associating with the right causes and people would ensure continued advancement.

• The game has changed now; you actually have to do something that creates economic value, or you will be fired.

Polarization in Society

In this section, the speaker talks about how polarization in society is caused by tension between working-class views held by the majority versus far-left cultural views held by those running institutions.

Future Outlook

• It is likely that polarization will only get worse rather than better.

• The division is caused by the fact that the majority of the country holds more populous working-class views, whereas those running institutions hold far-left cultural views.

• In a democracy, ultimately, the numbers will carry the day. However, left-wing elites will be kicking and screaming the whole way.

• It would help if the Republican Party could get their act together and give people a choice that they want because you can't get Democratic progress in society without having one of the parties embrace your agenda.

The Republican Party Needs a Focused and Disciplined Operator

In this section, the speaker discusses the need for a focused and disciplined operator to be the candidate of the Republican Party. He suggests that Tech leaders should get on board with this idea and take on more working-class issues to transform into a working-class party.

The Need for a Focused and Disciplined Operator

• The Republican Party needs a focused and disciplined operator as their candidate.

• Tech leaders should support this idea.

• The party needs to align behind a candidate who can take on more working-class issues.

• This will help transform the party into more of a working-class party.

Recapturing Institutions

In this section, the speaker talks about how there is a counter Elite forming at both ends of society. He mentions how universities have continued to indoctrinate students, but there hasn't been any credible university competitor that's more moderate.

Counter Elite Forming

• There is a counter Elite forming at both ends of society.

• Noah Smith recently tweeted that Tech isn't as Progressive as it used to be.

• Universities have continued to indoctrinate students.

Credible University Competitor Needed

• There hasn't been any credible university competitor that's more moderate than current institutions like Stanford or Harvard.

Creating Major New University

In this section, the speaker talks about Joe Lonsdale's effort in creating the University of Austin. He also questions whether universities still make sense given their high cost and graduates' inability to repay debt.

Joe Lonsdale's Effort

• Joe Lonsdale is creating the University of Austin, which is a credible effort to create a major new university that can compete.

Rethinking the University Model

• The whole model of universities may be broken and needs to be rethought.

• Graduates from these institutions have mountains of debt that many of them can never repay, which makes no sense.

Tech Leaders Should Make Companies More Efficient

In this section, the speaker suggests that tech leaders should make their companies more efficient by doing headcount reductions. He also talks about how the work-from-home trend was unproductive and suggests getting people back into the office.

Making Companies More Efficient

• Tech leaders should make their companies more efficient by doing headcount reductions.

• They need to think about who in their organization is really providing value.

Getting People Back into the Office

• The work-from-home trend was unproductive.

• People need to go back to the office at least four days a week.

• Congregating around hubs is important.

Entitled Mentality Needs to End

In this section, the speaker talks about how CEOs need to end an entitled mentality where employees believe that companies exist to serve them. He also mentions how having activist employees who try to further their political agenda at work is extremely unproductive.

Ending Entitled Mentality

• CEOs need to end an entitled mentality where employees believe that companies exist to serve them.

Activist Employees are Unproductive

• Having activist employees who try to further their political agenda at work is extremely unproductive.

The Need for Accountability

In this section, the speaker discusses the need for accountability in both politics and business. They argue that there is a principal-agent problem where the managerial elite insulate themselves from accountability, which needs to be reined in.

Restoring Accountability

• The program should focus on accountability.

• There is a principal-agent problem where the managerial elite insulate themselves from accountability.

• Restoration of democratic accountability in politics and economic accountability in business is needed.

• A program of accountability both politically and economically is necessary.

Legislative Component

• There needs to be a big legislative component to this.

• Republicans need to become a working-class party and harness their numbers to implement this agenda.

Economic Change

• More people in business need to do what Elon Musk is doing, which is willing to stick their neck out to do the right thing.

• If more people could do that kind of stuff, it could make a big difference.

The Future of Political Parties

In this section, the guest discusses the future of political parties and how they are evolving.

The Elitist Professional Class

• Biden is a "beer track" candidate who is actually a vessel for the elitist professional class.

• The Democratic Party is dominated by an elitist professional class sensibility that runs the party and all activist groups within it.

• It's unlikely that the party will change its direction or beliefs.

Populism Without Trump

• Can the Republican Party harness populist energy without alienating a large portion of the electorate?

• Trump cannot get enough votes to effectuate his agenda, and even if he could, it would just lead to more outrage and empower the left.

• A new candidate is needed who can build a majority coalition and execute on accountability for elites.

Accountability for Elites

• Society will always have mid-level managers, elites, and institutions. We can't get rid of them all.

• If elites want power and prerogatives, they must be accountable for results.