The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework)

Describing the Jobs to be Done Framework

In this section, Bob Mesta discusses the misconceptions around the Jobs to be Done framework and emphasizes the importance of understanding context and outcomes rather than just focusing on pain and gain.

Misconceptions about Jobs to be Done (0:00:00 - 0:00:16)

• The biggest misconception is that Jobs to be Done is solely about pain and gain.

• Context plays a crucial role in understanding irrational behavior.

• Without the full context, certain actions may seem irrational.

Introduction to Bob Mesta (0:00:28 - 0:01:02)

• Bob Mesta is the co-creator of the Jobs to be Done framework alongside Clay Christensen.

• He has started eight companies and currently serves as the co-founder and CEO of the Rewire Group.

• Bob helps companies unlock hidden insights and create successful products using the Jobs to be Done framework.

Exploring the Jobs to be Done Framework (0:01:18 - 0:03:45)

• This section delves into various aspects of the Jobs to be Done framework.

• Topics covered include what it is, how to apply it to products, when it's not a good fit, and how to interview customers for accurate insights.

• Examples are provided on how Jobs to be Done works for zero-to-one products.

Personal Board of Directors with Sidebar (0:01:54 - 0:02:45)

• Building a personal board of directors can greatly impact one's career trajectory.

• Sidebar offers a platform where senior leaders are matched with vetted peer groups for unbiased opinions, diverse perspectives, and raw feedback.

• This trusted group can provide valuable career advice and support.

Streamlining Product Development with Merge (0:03:07 - 0:03.45)

• Merge's unified API simplifies product development by offering over 180 integrations with HR, accounting, ticketing, CRM, and other platforms.

• By using Merge, companies can save time building custom integrations and focus on their core product.

Excitement for the Jobs to be Done Framework (0:04:24 - 0:04:43)

• The anticipation and passion for the Jobs to be Done framework are evident from the overwhelming response on LinkedIn.

• Many industry experts and professionals expressed excitement about Bob Mesta's insights on jobs to be done.

Timestamps may not align perfectly due to differences in transcription.

The Importance of Understanding Customer Needs

In this section, the speaker discusses the misconception of "build it and they will come" and emphasizes the importance of understanding customer needs to create successful products.

Understanding Jobs to be Done

• People hire products to make progress in their lives rather than simply buying them.

• By understanding the context and desired outcomes of customers, we can identify what competes with our product.

• A comparison between Snickers and Milky Way candy bars illustrates how different products serve different jobs for consumers.

Seeing the True Competitive Set

• Snickers is often consumed as a meal replacement when individuals are low on energy and need to get back to tasks quickly.

• Snickers competes with protein drinks, Red Bull, coffee, etc.

• Milky Way is typically eaten after an emotional experience as a way to regroup.

• Milky Way competes with a glass of wine, a brownie, or even going for a run.

• The concept of jobs helps us understand the true competitive set from the demand side rather than just focusing on technology or business models.

Causality Between Struggling Moments and Demand

This section explores how struggling moments lead to demand for products or services. The speaker shares an example related to Southern New Hampshire University.

Supply and Demand Disconnect

• Many people believe that creating a product leads to demand, but causality shows that struggling moments actually drive demand.

• An example is given about Southern New Hampshire University discovering anomalies where students were attending classes online instead of in person.

Studying Struggling Moments

• These anomalies were older individuals who already had degrees or had previously attempted college but didn't succeed.

• They had reached a point in life where they felt the need for further education or career change.

• Southern New Hampshire University realized that there was a significant demand for people wanting to go back to school, which led to their success.

Roadmap Based on Struggling Moments

This section discusses how a roadmap should be based on understanding struggling moments rather than just focusing on features. The speaker mentions companies like Intercom and Basecamp as examples.

Features vs. Struggling Moments

• A traditional roadmap focuses on listing features to be built in the next 24 months.

• However, unexpected developments can render the roadmap ineffective.

• By shifting the focus to struggling moments, multiple solutions can be explored when encountering those moments.

• After an initial period of feature-focused development, the roadmap should prioritize addressing struggling moments.

The transcript provided does not cover the entire video.

The Importance of Context in Pain and Gain

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of context in understanding pain and gain. It is not just about the pain itself but also the context surrounding it that determines its significance.

Understanding Pain and Gain in Context

• Pain and gain are often taught as the primary factors in business decisions.

• However, it is crucial to consider the context in which these experiences occur.

• The speaker emphasizes that it's not just about pain or gain but also about the circumstances leading up to them.

• For example, having a lot of work to do or being engaged in a meaningful project can make an experience more valuable despite any potential discomfort.

Framing Market Behavior as a System

This section explores how framing market behavior as a system can lead to better understanding customer needs and preferences.

Viewing Market Behavior as a System

• Instead of focusing solely on pain points, it is essential to understand what drives people to seek change.

• The method of "jobs be done" aims to uncover the causation behind customers' decision-making processes.

• By identifying the push or context that prompts individuals to consider alternatives, companies can develop products that meet their needs effectively.

• The speaker introduces four forces: F1 (push), F2 (pull), F3 (anxiety), and F4 (habit).

• These forces influence customers' decision-making process and determine whether they will adopt new products or stick with existing ones.

Reducing Friction for Customer Progress

This section highlights the importance of reducing friction for customers by making their journey easier. It explains how simplifying processes can lead to increased sales.

Reducing Friction for Customer Progress

• Adding more features does not necessarily result in higher sales; instead, it can create anxiety for customers.

• By focusing on reducing friction, companies can make it easier for customers to achieve their desired outcomes.

• The speaker shares an example from the real estate industry, where he increased sales by addressing a frictional point related to moving and storage.

• Understanding customer needs and designing the sales process based on how they want to buy can lead to more successful outcomes.

Designing Sales Process Based on Customer Preferences

This section emphasizes the importance of designing the sales process based on how customers want to buy rather than how companies want to sell.

Designing Sales Process Based on Customer Preferences

• The speaker introduces the concept of demand-side sales, which focuses on enabling customers to make progress rather than trying to sell them something.

• Understanding the causation behind customer behavior and using design thinking can help companies align their sales processes with customer preferences.

• The book "Demand Side Sales" explores this approach in detail, providing insights into how companies can better serve their customers' needs.

Due to the limited content provided in the transcript, only four sections were created.

Understanding the Buying Process of Customers

In this section, the speaker discusses the different phases of the buying process and how understanding where customers are in their timeline can improve sales.

The Three Phases of the Buying Process

• The buying process consists of three phases: passive looking, active looking, and deciding.

• Passive looking refers to when customers are problem aware but solution unaware. They need to learn more about potential solutions.

• Active looking occurs when customers are both problem and solution aware. They are actively seeking a solution and trying to frame it.

• Deciding is the phase where customers make trade-offs and decide on a specific solution.

Tailoring Demos to Customer's Buying Process

• It is important to consider where customers are in their buying process rather than just focusing on closing the sale after a demo.

• By breaking down demos and asking customers about their buying process, it becomes possible to provide tailored demos that meet their specific needs.

• Three different types of demos can be offered: storytelling demos that provide background information about the problem, demos showcasing alternatives, and demos offering choices for moving forward.

Improved Sales Process with Customer-Centric Approach

• Tailoring demos based on customer's buying process can actually shorten the sales process and increase conversion rates.

• Understanding the three phases of the buying process allows for better alignment with customer needs.

• This approach challenges traditional sales processes that rely solely on probability and emphasizes being ready for your product.

Six Phases of Transformation in Jobs-to-be-Done Framework

In this section, the speaker introduces six phases within the Jobs-to-be-Done framework that individuals go through during transformational moments.

The Six Phases

• The six phases in the Jobs-to-be-Done framework are: first thought, passive looking, active looking, deciding, first use, and ongoing use.

• These phases represent the journey individuals go through when making a significant change or decision.

Understanding Customer Transformation

• To truly understand what customers want, it is essential to study how people transform themselves during struggling moments.

• Traditional market research may not accurately capture customer desires and trade-offs.

• By using methods inspired by criminal and intelligence interrogation techniques, it becomes possible to uncover the real motivations behind customer decisions.

Moving Beyond Probability in Sales Process

• Many sales processes rely on probability and lead generation without considering if customers are truly ready for the product.

• Jobs-to-be-Done focuses on understanding where customers are in their transformational journey and how they make trade-offs.

• This approach provides deeper insights into customer needs and preferences.

Framing Questions to Understand Customer Needs

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of framing questions to understand customer needs and shares personal experiences related to reading difficulties.

Importance of Framing Questions

• The first step in understanding customer needs is framing questions around specific situations or triggers that lead them to make a decision.

• By focusing on what causes individuals to take action, it becomes possible to uncover their motivations and desires.

Personal Experience with Reading Difficulties

• The speaker shares personal experiences of having difficulty reading due to brain injuries at a young age.

• This experience led to a different perspective on traditional marketing research that relies on vague descriptors like "easy," "fast," or "fun."

Extracting Stories from Customers

• To gain insights into customer motivations, stories from recent purchasers are extracted.

• These stories help identify the pushes, pulls, anxieties, and habits that influence customer decisions.

• The focus is on understanding what triggers individuals to say "today's the day" for a specific action or purchase.

Applying the Method to Any Product

• The method of extracting stories and understanding customer motivations can be applied to any product or service, even if it hasn't been built yet.

• By identifying what customers would fire when they hire a particular product or service, valuable insights can be gained.

The transcript provided does not include timestamps for all sections.

Understanding Conflicting Goals in Product Development

In this section, the speaker discusses how conflicting goals can arise in product development and how companies like Intercom have addressed these conflicts.

Identifying Conflicting Goals

• Companies and products often have multiple conflicting goals.

• For example, one person may want to go faster while another wants to be more thorough.

• These conflicting goals can create challenges in product development.

Intercom's Approach

• Intercom identified that people hired their product for four different reasons.

• Instead of building separate products for each reason, they turned off irrelevant features based on the user's desired pathway.

• This approach allowed them to position themselves as a good next step between competitors like HubSpot and Zendesk.

Overcoming Reading Challenges

The speaker shares their personal experience with reading challenges and how it has influenced their approach to writing books.

Reading Challenges

• The speaker has difficulty reading words and struggles with looking up words quickly enough.

• They were taught to read by focusing on spaces between words and the left-hand edge of words.

• Their brain has difficulty processing words efficiently.

Writing Books

• The speaker founded a company called Scribe Media that helps authors write books.

• They outline struggling moments the book will address, analyze competitive books, define progress in each chapter, and conduct recorded conversations with authors.

• The resulting books sound like natural conversations because they are transcriptions of these discussions.

Paying It Forward through Teaching and Mentoring

The speaker discusses their motivation to pay it forward by teaching, mentoring, and sharing knowledge with others.

Personal Journey

• Despite being told they could only work as a baggage handler or construction worker, the speaker's mother believed they could achieve more.

• They had mentors who poured their knowledge into them, enabling them to succeed.

• Now, the speaker aims to pass on their knowledge and help others as much as possible.

Teaching and Mentoring

• The speaker is an adjunct lecturer at the Kellogg School in Northwestern and lectures at various business schools.

• They also assist organizations like Tech Stars and Y Combinator.

• Through podcasts and other platforms, they aim to share their experiences and insights with a wider audience.

The transcript provided does not include timestamps for all sections.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses the misconception of luck in finding a job and emphasizes the importance of preparation and framing one's career goals.

Finding a Job

• Many people attribute their job success to luck, but upon closer examination, it is evident that luck had little to do with it.

• Preparation, readiness, and personal drive play significant roles in securing a job.

• Individuals who have experienced multiple job switches can attest to the fact that luck is not the primary factor in their career progression.

• Understanding one's desired progress and goals is crucial when seeking new opportunities.

• Sometimes, individuals are willing to accept lower salaries if it means being surrounded by more knowledgeable colleagues.

• Contrary to popular belief, over 50% of people who change jobs do not receive higher salaries.

New Section

This section explores the multifaceted nature of money as a motivator for job changes and highlights other factors such as respect and personal growth.

Money as a Motivator

• Money is often associated with respect or increased responsibility in hiring and firing criteria.

• However, money represents more than just financial compensation; it can also signify personal progress or achievement.

• When discussing salary expectations, it is essential to understand why an individual desires more money. It could be due to larger obligations or seeking greater respect.

• The hiring process should consider various aspects beyond monetary compensation.

New Section

The speaker acknowledges the influence of status and job titles on individuals' career aspirations while transitioning into discussing effective interviewing techniques for understanding "jobs to be done."

Interviewing Techniques

• To gain accurate insights into what motivates individuals in their jobs, reading books like "Never Split the Difference" by Chris Voss can provide valuable techniques.

• Mirroring and active listening are effective strategies to encourage individuals to share more information during interviews.

• It is crucial to interview individuals who have already attempted to make progress in their desired field or industry.

• Even when dealing with new concepts or industries, studying competitors and understanding the jobs they fulfill can provide valuable insights.

• The number of interviews required for confidence varies, but around seven to twelve interviews are typically sufficient. Conducting two rounds of twelve interviews may be more effective than conducting twenty-four individual interviews.

New Section

This section delves into the importance of efficient interviewing methods and the use of designed experiments for accurate representation.

Efficient Interviewing

• Dr. Deming, a mentor known for lean and quality systems, emphasized the need for faster and smaller approaches in various processes.

• Statistical significance is not always necessary if one understands the market's range and can sample accordingly.

• Designed experiments can help achieve good representation without conducting an excessive number of interviews.

• When formulating questions during interviews, it is essential to consider multiple perspectives for obtaining trustworthy responses.

The transcript provided does not include any further sections or timestamps beyond this point.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses the framework of pushes, pulls, anxieties, and habits to understand why people do certain things. They emphasize the importance of asking questions and encouraging individuals to elaborate on their motivations.

Understanding Motivations

• The speaker uses the framework of pushes, pulls, anxieties, and habits to analyze what causes individuals to act in a certain way.

• Asking questions about motivations is crucial in understanding someone's story.

• Instead of repeatedly asking "why," it is more effective to ask for examples or encourage individuals to elaborate on their experiences.

• When individuals run out of language during a conversation, the speaker suggests bracketing options to prompt further discussion.

New Section

In this section, the speaker explains how they try to uncover the causal mechanisms behind people's actions. They discuss the importance of challenging initial assumptions and allowing individuals to provide insights into their decision-making process.

Revealing Causal Mechanisms

• The speaker aims to reveal why people do what they do by analyzing causal mechanisms.

• Sometimes, initial assumptions about someone's motivations may be incorrect.

• Challenging these assumptions can lead to a deeper understanding of an individual's decision-making process.

• It is essential to allow individuals to elaborate on why certain assumptions or explanations are not accurate.

New Section

In this section, the speaker talks about looking at customers through different perspectives and understanding who or what truly competes with a product. They highlight the importance of considering customer choices and preferences when identifying competitors.

Customer Perspective vs Product Perspective

• Looking at customers through a product lens may lead to incorrect competitor analysis.

• Understanding why customers choose specific products reveals true competitors.

• For example, if someone chooses a protein shake, an apple, or a sandwich, these items are competitors to a Snickers bar, not another candy bar like Milky Way.

New Section

In this section, the speaker provides a lightweight approach for adopting the "jobs to be done" framework. They suggest talking to customers about why they bought a product and understanding their motivations and concerns.

Adopting the "Jobs to Be Done" Framework

• To start thinking in terms of "jobs to be done," talk to 10 recent customers and ask them why they purchased the product.

• Focus on understanding their motivations, concerns, sacrifices made, and how they convinced others.

• Listening to their stories is crucial in gaining insights into the functional, emotional, and social aspects that drive customer decisions.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of talking to churned customers for established products. They explain that understanding why customers leave can provide valuable insights into areas where improvements can be made.

Learning from Churned Customers

• When customers churn (leave a product), it is an opportunity to understand their struggles and frustrations.

• Although churn may seem negative for businesses, it reveals areas where improvements can be made.

• Talking to churned customers helps identify pain points and reasons behind their decision to stop using the product.

The transcript provided does not include any timestamps beyond 2122 seconds.

Context and Trust in Knowledge

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of context in understanding information and the issue of trust when it comes to people's claims about what they will do.

Trusting Claims vs. Actions

• People often make claims about what they will do, but these claims are not always reliable.

• The speaker emphasizes the need to talk to people who have actually taken action and tried something, even if they may have failed.

• Merely complaining or expressing dissatisfaction does not necessarily indicate a willingness to take action.

Layers of Language

• There are different layers of language that people use when describing their experiences.

• The first layer is superficial and lacks specific details.

• By asking further questions, one can uncover the true motivations and reasons behind someone's actions or decisions.

Value and Starting Point

• Value is not solely determined by the outcome but also by where someone starts from.

• Different individuals may have different starting points and therefore value different levels of progress.

• Overshooting someone's desired outcome may lead them to devalue a product or service.

Investigating Intentions and Outcomes

This section focuses on the importance of investigating intentions and outcomes rather than relying solely on what people say.

Investigating Intentions

• It is crucial to conduct thorough investigations into why people make certain choices or purchases.

• People often provide incomplete or inaccurate explanations for their actions.

• A deeper understanding can be gained through careful questioning and analysis.

Vector of Progress

• The concept of value includes both the starting point and desired outcome.

• Evaluating progress requires considering where someone begins and where they want to go.

• Overshooting someone's desired outcome may result in them valuing a product less.

Jobs-to-be-Done Framework and Criticism

This section addresses the question of whether any companies have successfully used the Jobs-to-be-Done framework to launch their products.

Jobs-to-be-Done Framework

• The speaker is asked about examples of companies using the Jobs-to-be-Done framework for product launches.

• The transcript does not provide a direct answer to this question.

Criticism of Jobs-to-be-Done

• The speaker acknowledges that there are critics of the Jobs-to-be-Done framework, such as Sriram Krishnan.

• However, no further discussion or elaboration on this criticism is provided in the transcript.

The Importance of Studying Struggling Moments

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of studying struggling moments in order to determine what not to build in a product. They emphasize that organizations often keep adding more features without considering the actual needs of their customers.

Understanding Customer Needs

• It is crucial to study struggling moments to understand customer needs and preferences.

• Many times, organizations tend to add more features without considering if they are necessary or helpful.

• Larger organizations face difficulties in avoiding feature bloat due to a lack of understanding customer struggles.

Hypothesis Testing and Research Projects

This section focuses on the concept of hypothesis testing in market research. The speaker highlights that research should involve building hypotheses rather than assuming knowledge about customer behavior.

Hypothesis Building Research

• Market research should involve building hypotheses rather than assuming knowledge about customer behavior.

• Dr. Taguchi's advice emphasizes that there is always more unknown than known when it comes to understanding customer preferences.

• Businesses often mistakenly assume what they are selling aligns with what customers are buying.

Uncovering True Customer Motivations

The speaker discusses how businesses need to uncover the true motivations behind customer purchases. They mention Peter Drucker's quote about businesses thinking they're selling something different from what customers are actually buying.

Understanding Customer Motivations

• To truly understand why people buy a product, it is essential to go beyond assumptions and conduct interviews and research.

• Customers' motivations for purchasing may differ from what businesses believe.

• Peter Drucker's statement from 1953 still holds true today - businesses think they're selling one thing, but customers have different reasons for buying.

Zero to One Product Development

The speaker discusses the concept of zero to one product development, where a brand new product is created. They mention examples like Facebook Marketplace and emphasize the importance of understanding customer needs in this early stage.

Zero to One Product Development

• In the zero to one space, it is crucial to understand what existing solutions customers want to stop using.

• Examples like Facebook Marketplace demonstrate the need for creating a better alternative to existing platforms like Craigslist or eBay.

• The focus should be on improving existing jobs rather than creating entirely new ones.

Jobs-to-be-Done Approach in Startups

The speaker explains how the jobs-to-be-done approach is applied in startups, particularly at Tech Stars. They mention companies like Nutrisense and Havoc Shield as examples.

Applying Jobs-to-be-Done Approach in Startups

• At Tech Stars, startups often begin without a product and focus on understanding customer needs through interviews and research.

• Companies like Nutrisense and Havoc Shield are examples of startups that follow the jobs-to-be-done approach.

• The key is identifying what people will stop using when your product comes out and conducting interviews with those potential customers.

Continuous Improvement of Existing Jobs

The speaker emphasizes that there are no completely new jobs; instead, existing jobs get better over time. They discuss how technology plays a role in delivering improved outcomes for these jobs.

Continuous Improvement of Existing Jobs

• There are no truly new jobs; most jobs have existed for years and will continue to exist in the future.

• Technology enables us to improve how these jobs are done, but the core nature of the job remains unchanged.

• Intercom and Basecamp are mentioned as examples of companies that embrace the jobs-to-be-done approach early on.

Different Flavors of Jobs-to-be-Done

The speaker discusses different flavors or approaches to the jobs-to-be-done framework. They mention a supply-side driven approach and a more qualitative, organic approach used in startups.

Different Approaches to Jobs-to-be-Done

• There are different flavors or approaches to the jobs-to-be-done framework.

• One flavor is supply-side driven, focusing on improving existing technology and identifying areas for improvement.

• In startups, a more qualitative and organic approach is often used, tailored to the specific company's needs and context.

Tailoring Innovation Processes

The speaker emphasizes that each company should have its own innovation process based on its unique circumstances. They discuss how having a one-size-fits-all process may not be effective.

Tailoring Innovation Processes

• Each company should have its own innovation process based on factors such as their target audience and underlying technology.

• While there are principles that apply universally, there is no one-size-fits-all process for innovation.

• Twitter's experience with the jobs-to-be-done framework may have been influenced by using a standardized approach rather than tailoring it to their specific needs.

The Danger of Hypothesizing Jobs-to-be-Done

The speaker warns against relying solely on hypothesizing customer jobs without conducting proper research. They highlight the difference between A students (who tend to hypothesize first) and D students (who start without knowing all the answers).

The Danger of Hypothesizing Customer Jobs

• Hypothesizing customer jobs without proper research can lead to incorrect assumptions.

• A students, who tend to hypothesize first, may have a disadvantage in entrepreneurship compared to D students, who start without knowing all the answers.

• The Gift of Dyslexia is mentioned as an example of how different wiring can influence problem-solving approaches.

Advice for Getting Jobs-to-be-Done Right

The speaker provides advice on getting jobs-to-be-done right, emphasizing the importance of taking action and learning through experience rather than solely relying on hypotheses.

Advice for Getting Jobs-to-be-Done Right

• Avoid spending too much time hypothesizing about customer jobs and instead take action and learn through experience.

• Starting without knowing all the answers can be an advantage in entrepreneurship.

• Focus on practical application and continuous learning rather than relying solely on theoretical frameworks.

The Role of Snickers in Satisfying Hunger

In this section, the speaker discusses the role of Snickers candy bars in satisfying hunger and how it connects to the demand side of consumer behavior.

The Science Behind Snickers' Appeal

• When people are hungry, they often reach for a Snickers candy bar, even though it is just a candy bar.

• The combination of peanuts and nougat in Snickers helps masticate the candy bar, allowing it to absorb stomach acid and provide a sense of satisfaction.

• Snickers connects the supply side (the product) with the demand side (consumer needs), starting with moments of struggle and opportunity before creating a product.

Consumer Decision-Making Process

• When choosing a snack like Snickers, consumers are not thinking about other options like Milky Way or other candies. They focus on their immediate craving and convenience.

• People choose Snickers because it is easy to consume (300 calories, three bites), not messy, and allows them to continue working without interruption.

Different Approaches to Jobs-to-be-Done Framework

This section explores different approaches to the Jobs-to-be-Done framework by Tony Ulwick, Clay Christensen, and the speaker himself.

Collaboration with Clay Christensen

• The speaker collaborated with Clay Christensen on developing their approach to the Jobs-to-be-Done framework.

• While Clay focused on turning it into a theory, the speaker's approach is more practical as a method for understanding customer needs and creating products.

Tony Ulwick's Approach

• Tony Ulwick's approach to Jobs-to-be-Done comes from a different data set and experiences.

• Ulwick's perspective is more focused on product functions and what jobs the product can do, while the speaker emphasizes that only people have jobs, not products or organizations.

Applying Jobs-to-be-Done Framework

This section discusses the application of the Jobs-to-be-Done framework in different contexts and recommends a book for understanding its implementation.

Twitter as an Example

• In the case of Twitter, the speaker believes it aligns more closely with Clay Christensen's approach of thinking about customer needs.

• While Alex Osterwalder's approach is valuable for complex systems, it requires a disciplined organization to follow all the steps.

Recommended Book: "Demand Side Sales"

• The speaker suggests reading "Demand Side Sales" to understand how to apply their approach to understanding customer needs and flipping the lens from selling to helping customers buy.

Limitations of Jobs-to-be-Done Framework

This section explores situations where the Jobs-to-be-Done framework may not be suitable for determining what products to build.

Lack of Choice

• When there is no real choice available, such as in certain insurance scenarios, the Jobs-to-be-Done framework may not be applicable.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of accepting how people perceive you and the limitations of trying to influence their choices. They also talk about understanding the context and outcome rather than focusing solely on pain and gain when studying jobs to be done.

Understanding People's Perception

• The speaker emphasizes the need to accept how people see you instead of trying to shape their perception.

• Companies should focus on understanding what customers demand and how their product fits into it, rather than trying to create jobs that align with their own assumptions.

• Ethnography and prototyping can help identify friction points in a system and understand how people use products or services.

Context and Outcome

• The speaker highlights the importance of considering both the context and outcome when studying jobs to be done.

• Using an example of chewing gum, they explain that understanding when people chew gum can provide insights into why they buy it.

• Habitual behaviors are challenging to uncover, but changes in behavior reveal underlying motivations.

Misconceptions about Jobs to Be Done

• One misconception is that jobs to be done is solely about pain and gain, whereas it also involves understanding context and outcomes.

• Another misconception is relying on conference room discussions instead of talking directly to people and discovering contradictions or irrational aspects.

• The speaker encourages going beyond surface-level stories to understand the full context behind seemingly irrational behaviors.

Motivation and Innovation

• The speaker's passion for building things and understanding how they work led them to focus on jobs to be done.

• They believe that studying what causes people to change their behavior is where innovation happens.

[t=0:56:58s] From Abstract to Concrete: Becoming a Teacher and Author

In this section, the speaker discusses how their journey from abstract thinking to concrete application led them to become a teacher and author.

Embracing Innovation and Teaching

• The speaker's purpose is to make the abstract concrete, which has led them to become a teacher and professor.

• Initially, they disliked writing books but were convinced by someone named Clay that they needed to learn how to speak and write books.

Inspiration from Dr. Taguchi

• In 1990, while living in Cologne, Germany, the speaker's mentor Dr. Taguchi advised them to write a book.

• After almost 30 years, the advice still resonated with the speaker, leading them to realize their passion for helping people and creating methods.

[t=0:57:18s] Preserving Notebooks and Writing Books

This section focuses on the significance of preserving notebooks and how it influenced the decision to write books.

The Value of Notebooks

• When the speaker's youngest child moved out of their house, they discovered notebooks spanning almost 30 years of projects and work.

• These notebooks held immense value as records of their experiences in various companies.

Influence from Mentors

• One of the speaker's mentors, Dr. Taguchi, had advised them back in 1990 to write a book.

• Reflecting on this advice after three decades prompted the realization that writing books aligned with their passion for helping others.

[t=0:57:36s] Curiosity, Creating Methods, and Teaching

This section explores the speaker's love for helping people, creating methods, and teaching.

Passion for Helping People

• The speaker finds joy in assisting others and has a strong curiosity that sometimes borders on being annoyingly curious.

Creating Methods

• The speaker enjoys creating methods and approaches to problem-solving.

• This passion for innovation and finding better ways of doing things drives their work.

[t=0:57:54s] Key Takeaways and Lightning Round Introduction

The speaker shares three important takeaways before transitioning to the lightning round segment.

Struggling Moments as Opportunities

• Struggling moments are crucial for taking action and driving innovation.

• These moments can be found in various aspects of life, but it is essential to recognize them as opportunities for growth.

Understanding Others' Progress

• It is important to consider the progress individuals are trying to make based on their own standards, not imposing one's own expectations.

• Contextual understanding of others' goals and desired outcomes is key.

Trade-offs and Customer Alignment

• Making conscious trade-offs is necessary, ensuring that they align with the trade-offs valued by customers.

• Failure often occurs when products or services have made trade-offs that do not resonate with customers' needs or preferences.

[t=0:58:15s] Lightning Round Questions

The lightning round begins with a series of questions posed to the speaker.

Recommended Books

• "Shape Up" by Ryan Singer

• Provides valuable insights into product development processes.

• "End of Average" by Todd Rose

• A book the speaker listens to every year, gaining new perspectives each time.

Favorite Movie or TV Show

• The speaker enjoys watching "Big Bang Theory," relating themselves more to Leonard than Sheldon.

• They also appreciate science-related shows and historical documentaries for their educational value.

Favorite Interview Question

• The speaker's favorite interview question is asking candidates about the top three challenges they face in their business that, if solved, would fundamentally change it.

Favorite Product Discovery

• Recently, the speaker purchased a massage chair, which has been a life-changing addition to their routine.

• It provides on-demand massages, helping with post-workout soreness and overall relaxation.

Notable Impact of Jobs-to-be-Done

• Intercom is an example of a company that successfully implemented the jobs-to-be-done framework.

• The executive team at Intercom conducted interviews using this approach, leading to significant improvements in their product development.

The lightning round questions and answers have been summarized for brevity.

Focusing on Small Areas and Case Studies

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of focusing on small areas and using case studies to demonstrate their effectiveness.

Importance of Starting Small and Sharing Case Studies

• Starting with a small area allows for a focused demonstration of its use.

• By sharing both successful and unsuccessful case studies, companies can learn from what works and what doesn't.

• Sharing these case studies with others helps in spreading the knowledge.

The Dining Room Table Story

The speaker shares a story about the significance of the dining room table in downsizing homes.

Story of Downsizing Homes

• The speaker joined a building company in Detroit that focused on building homes for downsizers.

• Downsizers often expressed that they no longer needed a dining room table as they were done with hosting holidays or having people over.

• However, it was discovered that people were hesitant to move unless they knew where their dining room table would go.

• Despite being told that people didn't want dining room tables, the speaker built a place specifically for them, even though it wasn't practical for eating purposes.

• This decision increased sales by 22%, highlighting the emotional attachment people had to their dining room tables.

Building Houses and Downsizing

The speaker talks about his experience building houses and catering to downsizers' needs.

Joining a Building Company in Detroit

• After winding down his venture capital firm due to excessive travel, the speaker joined a building company in Detroit.

• They built around a thousand homes, primarily targeting downsizers who wanted smaller spaces without certain features like dining room tables.

Emotional Attachment to the Dining Room Table

The speaker discusses the emotional significance of the dining room table for downsizers.

Emotional Importance of the Dining Room Table

• Downsizers often considered the dining room table as an emotional bank account for their entire lives.

• If they couldn't pass it on to family members, they would keep it in storage rather than giving it away or putting it in the basement.

• People were hesitant to move unless they knew where their dining room table would go.

• Despite this, the speaker built a place specifically for the dining room table, even though it wasn't practical for eating purposes.

• This decision increased sales by 22%, highlighting the strong emotional attachment people had to their dining room tables.

Insights from Contradictions and Case Study

The speaker emphasizes how insights can be gained from contradictions and shares a case study related to the dining room table.

Learning from Contradictions and Case Studies

• Jobs helps identify important insights that may seem contradictory at first.

• By understanding customers' irrational behaviors and contradictions, companies can make better decisions.

• The speaker's decision to build a place for the dining room table despite downsizers claiming they didn't want one is an example of such insight.

• Sacrificing a second bedroom suite to accommodate a symbolic dining room table increased sales by 22%.

Mentors and Paintings

The speaker talks about his mentors and shows paintings of them.

Mentors and Their Influence

• The speaker has paintings of his mentors displayed above him.

• Dr. Deming, Dr. Taguchi, Dr. Willie Moore, and Clay Christensen are his mentors who taught him valuable skills in various areas.

• Dr. Deming introduced him to tools and methods for reducing product development cycle time at Ford.

• Dr. Taguchi's method of designed experiments was instrumental in his learning.

• Dr. Willie Moore, a particle physics PhD, taught him how to see and frame things empathetically.

• Clay Christensen, known for seeking anomalies, formed a close relationship with the speaker and they worked together for 27 years.

Helping Clay Christensen

The speaker shares an anecdote about helping Clay Christensen and the importance of offering assistance.

Assisting Clay Christensen

• The speaker approached Clay Christensen offering help after noticing that everyone had been asking him for things but no one had offered to assist him.

• This act marked the beginning of their relationship, leading to regular meetings over 27 years without any specific agenda.

• The speaker considers it remarkable that he had four hours per quarter with Clay Christensen without any set agenda.

Wrapping Up and Contact Information

The interview concludes with final questions and contact information.

Conclusion and Contact Information

• The interviewer expresses satisfaction with achieving the goal of understanding jobs to be done.

• The best way to reach out to the speaker is through LinkedIn where most of his content is posted.

• The speaker also mentions his company called "The Rewired Group," which has been operating for about 14 years.

Introduction to Laser Ventures and "The Circuit Breaker" Podcast

In this section, the speaker introduces Laser Ventures, an investment company, and their podcast called "The Circuit Breaker." The podcast covers various concepts in a 20-minute format, where the speaker and their partner discuss topics like empathy and forces of progress.

Laser Ventures and "The Circuit Breaker" Podcast

• Laser Ventures is an investment company.

• The speaker hosts a podcast called "The Circuit Breaker" with Andrew Glazer.

• The podcast explores different concepts in a 20-minute format.

• Topics discussed include the empathetic perspective and forces of progress.

• The podcast is designed for easy consumption during commutes or walks.

How Listeners Can Be Useful

In this section, the speaker discusses how listeners can contribute to the podcast. They express excitement about receiving questions and responses from the audience. Listeners can be useful by posting questions, engaging with the community, and providing suggestions for future episodes.

Ways Listeners Can Be Useful

• Listeners can post questions related to the podcast topics.

• Engaging with the community by sharing thoughts and insights is encouraged.

• Suggestions for future episode topics are welcome.

Community Interaction and Support

This section emphasizes the importance of community interaction in making the podcast more interesting. The speaker mentions individuals who reached out with interesting contributions. They request a format that allows them to answer questions in a conversational manner rather than written form.

Community Interaction

• Posting questions helps create an engaging community.

• Individuals like Dez and Jason have provided valuable contributions.

• Request for a conversation-like format to answer questions more effectively.

Request for Articulate Listener Contributions

The speaker expresses difficulty in answering questions in a written form and requests listeners to be more articulate. They suggest finding a format that allows for follow-up conversations and encourages listeners to help them improve their responses.

Request for Articulate Listener Contributions

• Answering questions in a written form is challenging.

• Request for a format that facilitates conversational responses.

• Listeners can assist by being more articulate in their questions and suggestions.

Conclusion and Call to Action

The speaker concludes the podcast episode by thanking the audience for listening. They encourage listeners to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast on various platforms. Additionally, they provide information on accessing past episodes and learning more about the podcast.

Conclusion and Call to Action

• Gratitude expressed towards the audience for listening.

• Encouragement to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast.

• Information provided on accessing past episodes and additional resources.

Timestamps are approximate as per the given transcript.