Slavoj Zizek debates Jordan Peterson [HD, Clean Audio, Full]

Introduction

The moderator welcomes the audience and introduces the two speakers, Dr. Slavoj Žižek and Dr. Jordan Peterson.

• The largest theater in Canada is packed for an intellectual debate on fundamental matters of truth and freedom.

• The speakers are introduced as highly attuned to ideologies and mechanisms of power, concerned with more fundamental matters such as meaning, truth, and freedom.

• Dr. Žižek is a philosopher with two doctoral degrees in philosophy and psychoanalysis. He has published over three dozen books on seminal philosophers of the 19th and 20th centuries.

• Dr. Peterson is an academic and clinical psychologist whose intellectual roots lie in the 19th and early 20th centuries. His interpretation of ancient myths informs his endeavor to counter contemporary nihilism.

Opening Statements

Each speaker delivers a substantial opening statement laying out their argument.

Dr. Jordan Peterson's Opening Statement

• Dr. Peterson thanks the audience for being there and notes that tickets for this event were being scalped online at a higher price than tickets for Leafs playoff games.

• He familiarized himself with Dr. Žižek's work to prepare for this debate but found it difficult due to its originality.

Dr. Slavoj Žižek's Opening Statement

• Dr. Žižek argues that capitalism is inherently flawed because it relies on exploitation, inequality, and environmental destruction.

• He proposes communism as an alternative system that can address these issues by prioritizing collective ownership of resources, social equality, and ecological sustainability.

Moderated Questions

The moderator asks questions to both speakers based on their opening statements.

Question 1: Is Capitalism Inherently Flawed?

• Dr. Peterson argues that capitalism is not inherently flawed but rather a reflection of human nature, which is characterized by hierarchies and competition.

• Dr. Žižek counters that capitalism perpetuates inequality and exploitation, leading to social unrest and ecological destruction.

Question 2: Is Communism a Viable Alternative to Capitalism?

• Dr. Žižek argues that communism can address the flaws of capitalism by prioritizing collective ownership of resources, social equality, and ecological sustainability.

• Dr. Peterson counters that communism has been tried before and has failed due to its disregard for individual rights and freedoms.

Question 3: How Can We Address Environmental Issues Within Capitalism?

• Dr. Peterson argues that technological innovation within a capitalist system can lead to solutions for environmental issues.

• Dr. Žižek counters that capitalism's focus on profit over environmental concerns will always prioritize short-term gains over long-term sustainability.

Question 4: What Role Should the State Play in Regulating the Economy?

• Dr. Žižek argues that the state should play a significant role in regulating the economy to ensure social equality and ecological sustainability.

• Dr. Peterson counters that too much state intervention can lead to inefficiencies and corruption, ultimately harming society as a whole.

Closing Statements

Each speaker delivers their closing statement summarizing their argument.

Dr. Jordan Peterson's Closing Statement

• Dr. Peterson argues that while capitalism may have flaws, it is still the best system we have for promoting individual rights and freedoms.

Dr. Slavoj Žižek's Closing Statement

• Dr. Žižek argues that communism offers an alternative system based on collective ownership of resources, social equality, and ecological sustainability.

Study Notes

This debate centers around whether or not capitalism is inherently flawed and if communism is a viable alternative. Dr. Peterson argues that capitalism, while not perfect, is the best system we have for promoting individual rights and freedoms. Dr. Žižek counters that capitalism perpetuates inequality and exploitation, leading to social unrest and ecological destruction, and proposes communism as an alternative system that can address these issues by prioritizing collective ownership of resources, social equality, and ecological sustainability.

The debate also touches on the role of the state in regulating the economy and addressing environmental issues within a capitalist system. Dr. Peterson argues that technological innovation within a capitalist system can lead to solutions for environmental issues, while Dr. Žižek argues that capitalism's focus on profit over environmental concerns will always prioritize short-term gains over long-term sustainability.

Overall, this debate offers insights into two different perspectives on economic systems and their impact on society as a whole.

Reading the Communist Manifesto

In this section, the speaker talks about his experience reading the Communist Manifesto and how he approached it critically. He also discusses some of the fundamental axioms presented in the manifesto and why he thinks they are unreliable.

Critical Thinking and the Communist Manifesto

• To read something critically, one must take apart sentences and ask if they are true at different levels of phrase, sentence, and paragraph.

• The speaker found that the Communist Manifesto made many conceptual errors per sentence.

• The authors did not seem to grapple with the idea that almost all ideas are wrong, including their own.

• The thinking presented in the manifesto was akin to typical thinking described by Jung - accepting a thought as true without questioning it.

Fundamental Axioms of the Communist Manifesto

• The first axiom is that history is primarily viewed through an economic class struggle lens. However, there are other motivations beyond economics that drive human beings.

• Organisms organize themselves into hierarchies, making hierarchical struggle a driving force behind history.

Hierarchical Organizations and Class Struggle

In this section, the speaker discusses the problem with hierarchical organizations and class struggle. The speaker argues that while there is accuracy in the accusation that class struggle is an eternal form of motivation for struggle, it's an underestimation of the seriousness of the problem because it attributed to the structure of human societies rather than the deeper reality of the existence of hierarchical structures per se.

The Problem with Hierarchical Structures

• Hierarchical structures are not only human constructions but also characterize the animal kingdom to a large degree.

• The ancient problem of hierarchical structure is clearly not attributable to capitalism because it existed long in human history before capitalism existed.

• Human beings struggle with themselves, malevolence, evil, spiritual and psychological warfare within them. They are also always at odds with nature.

• Marx didn't seem to take into account that there are far more reasons that human beings struggle than their economic class struggle.

Positive Elements of Hierarchies

• Hierarchies happen to be a very efficient way of distributing resources.

• Human hierarchies are not fundamentally predicated on power.

Binary Class Struggle

• Marx assumes that you can think about history as a binary class struggle with clear divisions between say the proletariat and bourgeoisie. However, it's not so easy to make a firm division between whose exploiter and whose exploit.

The Problems with Binary Class Struggle

In this section, the speaker discusses the problems with binary class struggle and how it led to disastrous consequences in the Soviet Union.

Binary Class Division

• Marx's binary class division of proletariat vs bourgeoisie is a bad idea.

• It assumes all good is on the side of the proletariat and all evil on the side of bourgeoisie.

• This idea led to a real problem as it was foolish to identify someone's moral worth with their economic standing.

Dictatorship of Proletariat

• Marx's idea of dictatorship of the proletariat was technically impossible and absurd.

• Establishing a dictator of the proletariat assumed that all evil could be attributed to capitalists and all good to proletariats, which is naive beyond comprehension.

• Centralization made decision-making impossibly complicated.

Criticisms of Marxism

In this section, the speaker discusses some criticisms of Marxism.

Problems with the Proletariat

• The Marxist belief that the proletariat would be less corrupt than capitalists is flawed.

• Centralizing decision-making power in a few people without specifying how they are chosen is problematic.

• Assuming all evil is with capitalists and all good with proletariats is absurd.

Criticism of Profit

• Profit can be theft if run by crooked people, but it's not always theft.

• Capitalists add value to corporations through their labor and management abilities.

• A little bit of profit helps enterprises grow.

Usefulness of Profit

• Profit provides a useful constraint on wasted labor.

• Running an enterprise on a for-profit basis can prevent engaging in forms of stupidity.

Dictatorship of the Proletariat

• Marx and Engels assumed that dictatorship of the proletariat was necessary.

Flaws in the Communist Manifesto

In this section, the speaker discusses the flaws in the Communist Manifesto and how it lacks a clear theory on how to achieve hyper productivity.

Lack of Theory on Hyper Productivity

• The Communist Manifesto lacks a clear theory on how to achieve hyper productivity.

• The theory seems to be that once you eradicate the bourgeoisie and get rid of their private property, all of a sudden, magically, the small percentage of the proletariat who now run society determine how they can make their productive enterprises productive enough so they become hyper-productive.

• There is no understanding of how that hyper productivity is going to come about.

• Marx's idea was that when there'll be enough material goods for everyone across all dimensions, people will spontaneously engage in meaningful creative labor which is what they had been alienated from in the capitalist horrorshow.

Utopia Not Suitable for Everyone

• There are great differences between people when some people are going to find what they want in love and some are going to find it in social being and some are going to find it in conflict and competition and some are going to find it in creativity as Marx pointed out but the notion that that will necessarily be the end goal for the utopian state is preposterous.

Shallow Conception of People

• Dostoyevsky observed that what sort of shallow conception of people do you have that makes you think that if you gave people enough bread and cake and nothing else except busy themselves with the continued continuity of the species, they would also all of a sudden become peaceful.

Capitalism Already Producing Material Productivity

• Marx admits repeatedly in the Communist Manifesto that there has never been a system of production in the history of the world that was as effective at producing material commodities in excess than capitalism.

• The logical thing would be just to let the damn system play itself out unless you're assuming that the evil capitalists are just gonna take all of the flat-screen televisions and put them in one big room and not let anyone else have one.

Marx's Narcissistic Thinking

• Marx was a narcissistic thinker who could think he was very intelligent person and so his angles but what he thought when he thought was that what he thought was correct and he never went the second stage which is wait a second how could all of this go terribly wrong.

Human Proclivity for Malevolence and Inequality

Dr. Peterson discusses the proclivity for malevolence in human beings and how it leads to a special form of Hell. He also talks about Marx's belief that capitalism would lead to inequality, but no one has managed to set up an economic system without inequality. Capitalism produces wealth and although it produces inequality, all other systems just produce inequality.

Inequality in Economics

• Marx believed that capitalism would lead to rich getting richer and poor getting poorer.

• No one has managed to set up an economic system without inequality.

• Capitalism produces wealth and although it produces inequality, all other systems just produce inequality.

Free Market Stats

• Income growth adjusted for inflation grew by 40 times from 1800 to 2017.

• GDP rose by a factor of about 0.5 from 1800 to 1880.

• The poor are getting richer faster now than they ever have in the history of the world.

• The UN Millennium Goals aimed at reducing absolute poverty by 50% between 2000 and 2015 were achieved three years ahead of schedule.

• Child mortality rate in Africa is now the same as Europe's child mortality rate in 1952.

Conclusion

• If you're concerned about the poorest people rising above their starvation levels, then implementing something approximating a free-market economy is the best way to do that.

Modernity, Capitalism, and Happiness

In this section, Slavoj Žižek discusses the tendencies of modernity and how China combines authoritarian state power with wild capitalist dynamics. He also questions the pursuit of happiness as a goal in life and argues that we need to find meaningful causes beyond mere survival.

The Combination of Authoritarian State Power and Wild Capitalist Dynamics in China

• Today's China combines strong authoritarian state power with wild capitalist dynamics.

• The Chinese government does not mention communism to legitimize its rule but instead uses the notion of a harmonious society.

• Donald Trump is a postmodern president who plays with traditional values and mixes references to them with open obscenities.

The Pursuit of Happiness as a Problematic Notion

• Although even the Dalai Lama justifies Tibetan Buddhism in western terms of the pursuit of happiness, happiness as a goal in life is problematic.

• Happiness relies on the subject's inability or unreadiness to fully confront the consequences of their desire.

• We pretend to desire things which we do not really desire so that ultimately, getting what we officially desire can be the worst thing that can happen.

Finding Meaningful Causes Beyond Mere Survival

• We need to find some meaningful cause beyond mere survival.

• Duty itself should not serve as an excuse for not doing our duty; we are responsible for our burdens.

• There is nothing preventing us from indulging in our lowest tendencies if everything is historically conditioned and relative.

• The danger of renunciation of pleasure is that it can easily turn into the pleasure of renunciation itself.

The Dangers of Godless Nihilism

In this section, Slavoj Žižek discusses the dangers of godless nihilism and how ideologies can make good people do horrible things.

The Dangers of Godless Nihilism

• Dostoyevsky warned against the dangers of godless moral nihilism in his book "The Brothers Karamazov."

• Terrorism shows that if there is a God, then everything, even blowing up hundreds of innocent bystanders, is permitted to those who claim to act directly on behalf of God.

• Ideologies can make good decent people do horrible things.

Conclusion

• We need to find meaningful causes beyond mere survival and not rely on happiness as a goal in life.

• Ideologies can be dangerous and make good people do horrible things.

The Lie of Identity Politics

In this section, Slavoj Žižek discusses the problem with identity politics and how it embodies a lie. He also talks about how anti-semitism and anti-immigrant sentiments are projected onto an external intruder to account for divisions and antagonisms within society.

The Problem with Identity Politics

• Multiculturalist liberals embody the lie of identity politics.

• Jacques Lacan wrote that even if what a jealous husband claims about his wife is all true, his jealousy is still pathological.

• Similarly, even if most Nazi claims about Jews were true, their anti-semitism would still be a pathological phenomenon because it ignored the true reason why the Nazis needed anti-semitism.

• Anti-immigrant populists today deal with refugees in the same way by projecting problems caused by global capitalism onto an external intruder.

Telling Stories

• Hitler was one of the greatest storytellers of the 20th century.

• Hitler provided a story or plot which was precisely that of a Jewish plot to explain Germany's situation in the 1920s.

• We tell ourselves stories about ourselves in order to acquire a meaningful experience of our lives. However, this is not enough as ideology fundamentally is a lie.

• The truth lives outside in what we do.

Cultural Marxism

• The alt-right obsession with cultural Marxism expresses their rejection to confront the fact that phenomena they criticize are actually effects of capitalist societies.

• Cultural Marxism plays the same role as that of the Jewish plot in anti-semitism by projecting eminent antagonisms onto an external cause.

Evil Resides in Our Gaze

In this section, Slavoj Žižek talks about how liberal critics of Trump and the alt-right never seriously asked how our liberal society could give birth to Trump. He also discusses how envy and resentment are the true opposite of egotist self-love.

Liberal Society and Trump

• Liberal critics of Trump and the alt-right never seriously asked how our liberal society could give birth to Trump.

• The image of Donald Trump is a fetish, the last thing liberals see before confronting actual social tensions.

• Hegel's motto "evil resides in the gaze which is evil everywhere" fully applies here because the very liberal gaze which dominates Trump is also evil because it ignores its own failures that open up space for patriotic populism.

Egotism vs Envy

• One should stop blaming hedonistic egotism for our woes.

• The true opposite of egotist self-love is not altruism but envy and resentment which makes us act against our own interest.

• Evil is profoundly spiritual in some sense more spiritual than goodness.

• Egalitarianism itself should never be accepted at face value.

The Balance Between Equality and Hierarchy

In this section, Slavoj Žižek discusses the balance between equality and hierarchy in today's society. He argues that capitalism equalizes us to a certain extent but also causes the loss of many talents. He also questions whether there is really too much equality in today's United States.

Equality vs Hierarchy

• Žižek argues that creating space for as many individuals as possible to develop their different potentials is the quality he advocates.

• He believes that a simple overview of the situation points in the opposite direction, and far from pushing us too far, the left is gradually losing its ground.

• Universal healthcare and free education are continuously diminished, which he sees as a threat to our freedoms and American way of life.

• Žižek sees basic equality as a space for creating differences and even more appropriate hierarchies.

Natural Beings and Improvisations

In this section, Slavoj Žižek talks about natural beings and improvisations. He uses examples such as French cuisine to explain how nature is not a stable hierarchical system but full of improvisations.

Nature vs Culture

• Nature is not a stable hierarchical system but full of improvisations.

• Our sexuality works similarly; sexual instincts are biologically determined but can be trans-functionalized into something metaphysical through culture.

• TS Eliot wrote that the past should be altered by the present as much as the present is directed by the past. Christianity is an example of this change, where the same divine spark dwells in everyone and enables us to create.

Conclusion

In this section, Slavoj Žižek concludes his talk by summarizing his main points about equality, hierarchy, nature, and culture.

Final Thoughts

• Žižek believes that creating space for individuals to develop their different potentials is important.

• He argues that nature is not a stable hierarchical system but full of improvisations and can be trans-functionalized through culture.

• Finally, he emphasizes that we need to alter the past with the present and use our divine spark to create something new.

Democracy, Competence, and Ecology

In this section, Slavoj Žižek discusses the relationship between competence and democracy. He argues that while competence is important, political power should not be directly grounded in it. He also talks about the ecological crisis and how capitalism's focus on self-reproduction makes it ill-equipped to deal with environmental issues.

The Wager of Democracy

• The ultimate decision should stay with all of us.

• We often need a master figure to push us out of inertia.

• Social power and authority cannot be directly grounded in competence.

Communism and Antagonisms in Capitalism

• Christ was justified by the fact of being God's son, not by his competency or capacities.

• Today's global capitalism contains strong enough antagonisms which prevent its indefinite reproduction.

• These antagonisms concern what Marx called Commons - the sharp substance of our social being.

Environmental Consequences of Capitalism

• The prospect of a catastrophe due to pollution, global warming, etc. is real.

• Capitalism's focus on self-reproduction means that environmental consequences are simply not part of the game.

• There is no simple democratic solution to dealing with ecology.

The Future of Humanity

In this section, Slavoj Žižek discusses the two predominant reactions to the current state of the world: protective self-enclosure and global capitalism with a human face. He argues that neither reaction is sufficient and proposes a need for change in various spheres.

Protective Self-Enclosure

• Protective self-enclosure is a predominant reaction to the current state of the world.

• Countries may appear to be run relatively well, but their problems are connected to how we interact with them.

• Foreign interventions by Western countries or proxies create refugees.

• This reaction is limited and does not address the root causes of problems.

Global Capitalism with a Human Face

• Global capitalism with a human face advocates for socially responsible corporate figures and treating refugees like one of us.

• However, this reaction only provides symptomatic treatment and does not address the root causes of problems.

Need for Change

• There is a need for change in various spheres such as ecology, digital control, unity of the world capitalist market, etc.

• The market is already limited but not in the right way. State plays an important role in limiting it further.

• Without change, we will continue to slide towards some kind of apocalypse.

Confronting Serious Problems

In this section, Slavoj Žižek responds to Jordan Peterson's introduction and emphasizes that they are both here to confront serious problems.

Confronting Serious Problems

• Slavoj Žižek emphasizes that they are both here to confront serious problems.

• He apologizes for his previous comments on China and clarifies that it worries him terribly.

Criticism of Capitalism and Marxism

Dr. Peterson discusses the terms of the argument, which were capitalism, Marxism, and happiness. He notes that Dr. Dziedzic focused more on the problems of capitalism and happiness than on the utility of Marxism.

Problems with Capitalism

• Dr. Peterson acknowledges that there are problems with capitalism, such as the commodification of cultural life.

• He believes that reducing everything to economic competition is not the best way forward.

• There is a relationship between wealth and happiness, but past a certain point, additional material provision does not contribute to well-being.

• Radical wealth production might produce a fatal threat to social systems and ecosystems.

Defense of Capitalism

• Dr. Peterson defends capitalism in comparison to communism as "the worst form of economic arrangement you could possibly manage except for every other one that we've ever tried."

• Unbridled capitalism per se does not constitute the proper answer to our problems.

• Wealth makes people happy as long as it keeps bill collectors at bay; beyond that point, adding more money has no relationship to well-being.

Support for Marxism

• Dr. Peterson organized the first part of his talk as an attack against Marxism per se because he presumed he would hear support for traditional or even a traditional Marxism from Dr. Dziedzic.

• However, he did not hear much support for Marxism from her during their discussion.

Relationship Between Wealth and Happiness

Dr. Peterson discusses how wealth relates to happiness based on psychological literature.

Absolute Level of Income and Happiness

• There is a relationship between absolute level of income and self-reported lack of misery or happiness.

• The relationship is pretty linear until you hit something approximating decent working-class income.

• Wealth makes people happy as long as it keeps bill collectors at bay.

Measures of Happiness

• It's not exactly obvious whether happiness measures are measures of happiness or whether they're measures of the absence of misery.

• People are more concerned with not being miserable than they are with being happy.

The Possibility of Solving Human Problems

In this section, the speaker discusses the possibility of solving human problems through human ingenuity. He also talks about inequalities generated by capitalism, proclivity towards shallow materialism, and corruption.

Catastrophes as Part of Struggle for Human Existence

• The speaker believes that catastrophes are part of the struggle for human existence itself.

• Inequalities generated by capitalism, a proclivity towards shallow materialism, and the probability of corruption are some examples of these catastrophes.

Capitalism Producing Wealth for Poorest Section

• The speaker argues that these catastrophes are not something to be laid at the feet of any given socio-political system.

• Capitalism seems to be producing a fair amount of wealth for the poorest section of the population and raising people up to a point where their lives aren't an unending day-to-day struggle for mere survival.

Possibility of Environmental Action with GDP Increase

• If GDP can reach $5,000 per person per year, people start to become concerned about environmental degradation and take actions to prevent it.

• As the population grows up to 3 billion people who are wealthy enough to care about the environment, there is some possibility that we could act collectively to solve environmental problems.

Julian Simon's Bet on Commodity Prices

• Julian Simon bet against biologist Paul Ehrlich that commodity prices would increase dramatically due to evidence that we were running out of material resources by 2000.

• Ehrlich paid off Simon in 2000 because commodity prices went down and not up, indicating that there is no solid evidence that our population growth will lead to running out of necessary material resources.

Adding More Brains to the Planet

• The addition of several billion more brains to the planet, especially if they were well-nourished brains, might help us generate enough problem-solvers so that we can stay ahead of the looming ecological catastrophe as our population balloons outwards.

• We are going to peak at 9 billion, which is not much higher than we are now and it looks like we might be able to manage it.

Alternative Solutions

In this section, the speaker discusses alternative solutions presented by Dr. Jack and Dr. Dusek.

Rise of Chinese Success Due to Market Forces

• Dr. Jack admitted that the rise to success of the Chinese was in part a consequence of the allowance of market forces.

• The speaker did not hear an alternative solution from Dr. Jack.

Social Justice Group Identity Processes

• Dr. Dusek decried social justice group identity processes.

• The speaker believes these processes are a logical derivation from the oppression narrative that's a fundamental presupposition of Marxism.

Equality of Opportunity vs Outcome

• The speaker heard an argument for egalitarianism but defined as equality of opportunity rather than equality of outcome.

• Equality of outcome is seen as a clearly defined Marxist aim.

Modified Social Distribution of Wealth

• The speaker heard an argument for a modified social distribution of wealth but noted that this is already part and parcel of most modern free-market states.

• The appropriate variation of government intervention constitutes their own experiment, and we don't know how much social intervention is necessary to flatten the tendency of hierarchies to become tilted so terribly that only the people at the top have everything.

Relationship between Happiness and Material Security

Dr. Peterson believes that material security is not sufficient for happiness, but the free market system has demonstrated itself as the most efficient manner to achieve it. He suggests that individual moral responsibility aimed at the highest good is rooted in our underlying Judeo-Christian tradition and is necessary for achieving a balance between what's good for individuals, families, and society.

Free Market System vs Marxism

• The free market system is more efficient than Marxism in achieving happiness through material security.

• Capitalism may not solve all problems, but it still constitutes the clear winner over Marxism.

Individual Moral Responsibility

• Each person is sovereign in their own right and a locus of ultimate value.

• Our society presumes that each person is a locus of responsibility and decision-making of such import that the very stability of the state depends upon the integrity of their psyche.

• Dr. Peterson suggests adopting as much responsibility as possible towards achieving the highest possible good.

• This involves balancing what's good for individuals, families, and society through an elaborated iterated game or sophisticated way of looking at how society could be organized.

• The pathway forward starts with individual moral responsibility aimed at achieving this balance.

Problematising Happiness

Slavoj Žižek critiques the category of happiness by problematizing it further. He argues that happiness can be perverted under certain conditions like too much democracy or affluence.

Critique of Communist Regimes

• Žižek agrees with Dr. Peterson's critique of communist regimes but suggests focusing on something he experienced.

• He argues that we should not only look at the tear or horror but also at how happiness can be perverted under certain conditions.

• Žižek cites a report on how people in Czechoslovakia were made happy during the Soviet intervention in the 1970s and 80s.

• One condition of happiness was having another person to blame for one's problems, while another was being reminded of how happy one is by experiencing moderately good but not perfect living conditions.

• Another condition was having a paradise that is far but not directly accessible.

The transcript contains some parts where there is no meaningful content.

Private Pleasures and the Corruptive Nature of Happiness

In this section, the speaker discusses his belief that happiness should be treated as a necessary by-product rather than something to focus on directly. He also expresses concern about the corruptive nature of happiness and how it can lead to negative consequences.

Happiness as a By-Product

• The speaker's basic Dogma is that happiness should be treated as a necessary by-product.

• Happiness comes as a byproduct of working for a cause.

Corruptive Nature of Happiness

• The speaker expresses concern about the corruptive nature of happiness.

• The perfect combination between unleashing capitalism and still maintaining authoritarian rule is what worries the speaker.

Marx's Critique of Equality and Communism

In this section, the speaker discusses Marx's critique of equality and communism. He argues that communism is not egalitarianism but rather based on social power.

Marx's Critique of Equality

• Marx dismisses equality as a strict bourgeois category.

• Marx did not have a good theory for how social power exists.

Communism Based on Social Power

• For Marx, communism is based on social power but not capitalism.

• The speaker argues that we should not simply replicate Marx's ideas but instead build upon them.

Cooperated International Action Needed for Environmental Issues

In this section, the speaker discusses environmental issues such as ocean pollution and argues that cooperated international action is needed to address these problems.

Environmental Issues

• The speaker argues that cooperated international action is needed to address environmental issues.

• The speaker mentions the situation in South Africa as an example of a complex issue that needs to be addressed.

The Consequences of Large-Scale Reform

In this section, the speakers discuss the consequences of large-scale reform and the importance of being aware of ecological problems.

The Tragic Logic of Revolution

• The proletarian revolution may seem like a good idea, but history has shown that it can lead to catastrophic results.

• Growing protests do not necessarily lead to positive change. For example, what happened to Syriza in Greece.

• There is no simple or clear way out of our current situation.

Ecological Problems

• Many people are not aware of the seriousness of ecological problems, especially those who are poor.

• We know about ecological problems, but we do not take them seriously enough. This is known as "survival Furlow ignant" in French.

• Evil and envy cannot be underestimated when it comes to addressing ecological problems.

Discussion and Questions

In this section, the speakers engage in a discussion and ask each other questions.

Dr. Peterson's Question for Žižek

• Why did Žižek promote Marxism instead of focusing on his own original ideas?

Žižek's Response

No response provided in this section.

Marx and Hegel: A Return to Openness

In this section, Slavoj Žižek discusses his admiration for Marx's critique of political economy and the dynamics of capitalist society. He argues that Marx's work is more ambiguous and open than commonly thought, and that there are dangers in Marxism's teleological structure. He suggests a return to Hegel for his radical openness.

The Ambiguity of Marx

• Marx's critique of political economy is a tremendous achievement as a description of the dynamics of capitalist society.

• Marx is much more ambiguous and open than commonly thought. He enumerates seven or eight counter tendencies to the law of diminishing returns.

• Marx's political analysis in works such as "The 18th Brumaire" deals with middle classes, intellectuals, and other complexities beyond a simple class binary.

The Danger in Marxism

• The danger in Marxism lies in its teleological structure, which sees history moving towards a unique chance at a reversal into a new emancipated society.

• This can lead to self-instrumentalization by the communist party as an agent of history following predetermined laws.

• In contrast, Hegel prohibits such pure acting where one knows what they are doing and what the result will be.

A Return to Openness

• Slavoj Žižek suggests turning back to Hegel for his radical openness.

• Philosophy cannot see into the future; it has radical openness. We need this openness today since we lack clear insight into where we stand or where we are moving.

• John Peterson expresses concern that support for Marxism is dangerous, but Slavoj Žižek questions where the Marxist influence is in today's society.

The Danger of Supporting Marxism

In this section, John Peterson expresses his concern about supporting Marxism and its revolutionary proclivities. Slavoj Žižek questions where the Marxist influence is in today's society and suggests that any support for Marxism is likely to be read as support for radicalism.

The Danger of Supporting Marxism

• John Peterson expresses concern about supporting Marxism and its revolutionary proclivities.

• He argues that the ideas outlined in "The Communist Manifesto" are of extraordinary danger.

• Slavoj Žižek questions where the Marxist influence is in today's society and suggests that any support for Marxism is likely to be read as support for radicalism.

Hyper Moralization and Marxism

In this section, the speaker discusses hyper moralization and Marxism. He argues that political correctness is a form of hyper moralization that is an admission of defeat. He also questions the existence of post-modern egalitarian neo-Marxists.

Hyper Moralization

• The speaker believes that political correctness is a form of hyper moralization.

• He argues that it is a silent admission of defeat.

• The speaker questions the genuineness of any attempt to change society through political correctness.

Marxism

• The speaker asks for names of post-modern egalitarian neo-Marxists and questions their existence.

• Organizations like Jonathan Heights and Heterodox Academy have documented a dearth of conservative voices in social sciences and humanities.

• Approximately 25% of social scientists in the US identify themselves as Marxists.

• The speaker sees a connection between postmodernist types and Marxists as both view oppression as one identity group oppressing another.

• However, he notes that some Marxist economists like David Harvey are still respected today but are marginalized by politically correct mainstream views.

Economic Hierarchies and Social Justice

In this section, Peterson and Žižek discuss the idea of utopia emerging from the elimination of economic hierarchies. They also touch on the association between social justice types and Marxism.

Economic Hierarchies and Utopia

• Peterson questions how a utopia could emerge from the elimination of economic hierarchies if other forms of hierarchies still exist.

• Other forms of hierarchies, such as attractiveness or ability, would still cause contention among people.

• The social justice movement is associated with postmodernism and Marxism due to their insistence on viewing the world through the narrative of oppressed versus oppressor.

• Žižek believes that Foucault's main target was Marxism, which he saw as represented in energy. He argues that Foucault's game was never about radical change but rather enjoying one's own self-marginalization.

Happiness and Responsibility

• The discussion shifts to happiness as a mere hedonistic pursuit or feeling.

• Both Peterson and Žižek agree that happiness is a side effect rather than a thing in itself.

• There are certain preconditions that have to be met for someone to be happy, which are quite mysterious.

• Peterson argues that adopting maximal responsibility towards suffering and malevolence in the world is an effective means of pursuing the good life, which is not necessarily synonymous with happiness.

• Pursuing maximal responsibility should primarily be an individual responsibility since we each suffer alone in some fundamental sense.

Personalized and Universalized Vision

In this section, the speaker talks about the importance of having a personalized and universalized vision. He emphasizes that one should work diligently to ensure that their actions are in keeping with their vision.

Importance of Personalized and Universalized Vision

• Having a personalized and universalized vision is crucial.

• A judeo-christian ethic is fundamental to the proper functioning of society.

• Meaning is found in the adoption of responsibility.

• Acting in accordance with what you believe to be right while expanding your ability to do it is important.

• Expanding your domain of knowledge and ability leads to true happiness.

Love, Christianity, and God

In this section, the speaker discusses love, Christianity, and God. He talks about how authentic love can be traumatic and how Christianity's form differs from other religions.

Authentic Love

• Authentic love can be traumatic.

• Falling in love can lead to a loss of balance in life.

Christianity's Form

• The distance that separates you from God is inscribed into God himself.

• You don't climb to God; you are free in a Christian sense when you discuss that.

The Relationship Between Happiness and Struggle

In this section, the speakers discuss their views on happiness and how it relates to struggle. They also touch on the concept of singularity and its implications.

Happiness as Struggle

• For one speaker, happiness is not a blissful unity with the highest value but rather the very struggle and fall.

• The other speaker questions why so much emphasis is placed on personal transformation when societal issues are often at the root of individual problems.

• They discuss how setting one's house in order can reveal societal issues that contribute to disorder.

• The speakers argue that being socially active is important because societal crises often contribute to individual problems.

Singularity

• One speaker expresses concern about Ray Kurzweil's concept of singularity and its potential for a blissful state.

• They debate whether societal or individual issues should be prioritized, using North Korea as an extreme example.

• The speakers criticize false personalization in dealing with ecological issues.

Atheism on the Cross

In this section, the speakers discuss atheism on the cross and what it means for resilience.

Atheism on the Cross

• One speaker reflects on how Christ's final moment of atheism represents an archetypal story of unbearable suffering that even God Himself might despair about.

• They use this idea to explain how developing optimal resilience involves laying out a pathway towards somewhere better.

Exposure Therapy and Confronting Darkness

In this section, the speaker discusses how exposure therapy is used to redeem individuals in psychoanalysis and behaviorism. He also talks about how confronting darkness can lead to discovering light in life.

The Importance of Confronting Darkness

• Life is fundamentally suffering and malevolence.

• The light that one discovers in life is proportionate to the amount of darkness they are willing to confront.

• The good that people are capable of is a higher good than the evil that people are capable of.

• Adopting individual responsibility and accepting the unjustness of one's tortured mortality can help transcend suffering.

Individual Responsibility

• Solving ethical problems in one's own life can set their house in order and everyone else's at the same time.

• Adopting individual responsibility happens on an individual level, but it is the best bet for most people to solve problems that beset them.

• Working out problems within a relationship can provide insight into broader social concerns.

Carl Jung Quote

• Taking personal problems seriously enough will simultaneously solve a social problem.

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Possession by Ideas and Personalities

Dr. Peterson discusses how people can be possessed by ideas and personalities that are not their own, and the importance of understanding oneself to avoid this.

Understanding Oneself

• Dr. Peterson suggests watching oneself as if one does not understand who they are or what they're ruled by.

• Notice times when you're where you should be, back to our discussion about meaning rather than happiness.

• There are times in your life where you've done something that you should have done, even though you might not understand why or what it is.

• The study of that can help elucidate the difference between what actually constitutes you and what constitutes the accretion that characterizes you because of socialized mimicry.

Escaping Ideology

• One way of escaping from possession by ideology is to stop saying things one knows not to be true.

• Everyone has the experience of being about to say or do something that they know is wrong but still do it. Try to stop doing that.

• Practicing not doing things one knows are wrong leads to lying less, taking the easy route out less, and pursuing hedonic pleasures that cost less in the future.

Individual Responsibility

• Dr. Peterson makes a case for individual responsibility, which is different from making a case for the individual like Ayn Rand does.

• It's important for something to be good for both oneself and one's family; if it's just good for oneself, it's not good enough.