The ultimate guide to AEO: How to get ChatGPT to recommend your product | Ethan Smith (Graphite)

AEO: The Future of SEO?

Understanding Answer Engine Optimization (AEO)

• AEO, or Answer Engine Optimization, is becoming crucial for visibility in search results. Unlike traditional SEO, where a blue link might rank first, AEO focuses on being mentioned across various citations to appear in summarized answers.

• Early-stage companies can leverage platforms like Reddit and YouTube to gain immediate mentions and traffic through answer engines, which are proving to be more effective than traditional social media channels.

Value of Leads from Answer Engines

• Companies like Webflow have reported a significant conversion rate increase (6x) from traffic driven by large language models (LLMs) compared to Google search traffic. This indicates that leads generated through AEO may be more valuable.

• There is widespread misinformation regarding the impact of AI on Google searches; while some predict a decline in Google's relevance, the overall market continues to expand.

Transitioning Landscape of SEO

• Ethan Smith discusses the shift from traditional search engines like Google to AI-driven platforms such as Jadypt and Claude. This transition signifies a major change in how users seek information.

• The introduction of AI features by Google itself reflects this shift towards integrating AI into search experiences, emphasizing the importance of adapting SEO strategies accordingly.

Expert Insights from Ethan Smith

• Ethan shares tactical advice on optimizing for AEO during his discussion. His insights are positioned as highly valuable for businesses looking to adapt their marketing strategies effectively.

Podcast Promotion and Resources

• The episode is sponsored by Orcus, an orchestration platform designed for modern enterprise applications. It emphasizes the need for dynamic workflows that integrate humans and AI seamlessly.

• Vanta is introduced as a solution for compliance management with industry-leading automation tools aimed at enhancing productivity and reducing costs associated with security compliance.

Reflections on Past SEO Practices

• Ethan reflects on his extensive experience in SEO since 2007, noting that previous significant changes were primarily algorithmic adjustments made by Google aimed at reducing spammy practices.

What Are AEO and GEO?

Understanding the Changes in Search Optimization

• The speaker discusses a significant change related to search, emphasizing that it is a summarization of search rather than a complete overhaul. They suggest this is the second biggest change after Google's earlier updates.

• The terms AEO (Answer Engine Optimization) and GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) are introduced. The speaker believes they refer to similar concepts but prefers AEO for its clarity.

• AEO focuses on optimizing how content appears as answers in language models (LM), while GEO may encompass broader generative outputs like images or videos.

• The preference for "answer engine optimization" is highlighted as being more precise compared to "generative engine optimization," which can be interpreted more broadly.

Impact of ChatGPT on Content Traffic

• An unexpected finding reveals that ChatGPT is driving more referral traffic to the speaker's newsletter than Twitter, indicating a shift in content consumption patterns.

• The discussion touches on when this spike began, with indications that increased adoption and improved clickability of answers contributed to this trend starting around January.

Strategies for Optimizing Content Visibility

• There’s an ongoing concern about whether ChatGPT's use of content diminishes original creators' visibility. However, the focus shifts towards strategies for enhancing presence within these answer engines.

• Nick Turley from ChatGPT suggests focusing solely on creating quality content without worrying about optimization; however, the speaker disagrees, advocating for understanding underlying systems to optimize effectively.

• Emphasizing that anything can be optimized if one understands the rules of engagement with algorithms and platforms like ChatGPT, contrasting with spammy tactics which are unsustainable long-term.

Real-world Examples of Answer Engine Optimization

• The speaker shares insights from working with various companies, including Webflow, highlighting successful strategies in answer optimization alongside traditional SEO practices.

• Traditional SEO methods still apply effectively within AEO contexts; creating landing pages targeting high-volume keywords remains beneficial for visibility in answer engines.

• While traditional SEO principles hold true, there are additional considerations unique to AEO that must be addressed for optimal results in language models.

Differences Between Head and Tail Keywords

• The distinction between head and tail keywords is discussed; winning queries like “best website builder” requires different strategies compared to traditional Google searches due to how LMs summarize citations rather than relying solely on URL rankings.

Understanding SEO and Answer Engine Optimization

Strategies for Web Flow's Success

• Web Flow collaborates with platforms like YouTube, Vimeo, Reddit, and various blogs to enhance visibility through mentions and affiliate marketing.

• Being frequently mentioned across summaries can drive more traffic than simply ranking first in search results for "best website builder."

• Early-stage startups are advised against focusing on traditional SEO due to low domain authority; instead, they should prioritize other growth strategies.

The Advantage of Answer Engine Optimization

• Unlike traditional SEO, answer engine optimization allows new companies to gain immediate visibility through citations and mentions.

• The volume of specific questions asked in chat environments is larger compared to search engines, allowing for greater opportunities in targeting niche queries.

• Chat platforms facilitate follow-up questions that lead to a broader range of inquiries not typically supported by traditional search engines.

Longtail Questions and Their Importance

• The resurgence of longtail keywords is evident in chat-based interactions where users ask very specific questions about products or services.

• Companies that provide answers to unique queries can quickly establish themselves as authorities in their field.

Quality of Leads from Answer Engines

• Leads generated from answer engines are significantly more valuable; Web Flow experienced a 6x higher conversion rate from LLM traffic compared to Google search traffic.

• High intent is built through conversational engagement on chat platforms, leading users who arrive at websites being highly qualified prospects.

Effective Content Strategies

• Key strategies include optimizing landing pages, creating engaging YouTube videos, and leveraging Reddit discussions for off-site presence.

• On-site content should focus on detailed product information addressing common user inquiries about features and use cases.

The Role of Reddit in Marketing

• Reddit serves as a crucial platform for authentic opinions; it’s essential for brands looking to optimize their presence there without appearing spammy.

Growth Strategies on Reddit

The Hustle Mindset and Spam Tactics

• Discussion of the growth mindset focusing on automated spam strategies to promote products across platforms like Reddit.

• Description of creating multiple fake accounts to post and upvote comments, aiming to build a trust score for product promotion.

• Acknowledgment that such spam tactics are largely ineffective as accounts get banned and comments deleted.

Authentic Engagement on Reddit

• Emphasis on the importance of posting high-quality, authentic comments from real users rather than spamming.

• Example from Webflow where team members engage genuinely by sharing their identity and providing useful information in relevant threads.

The Role of Algorithms in Content Visibility

• Insight into how platforms like ChatGPT utilize algorithms to filter out spam, relying heavily on trusted sources like Reddit.

• Explanation of how search algorithms at ChatGPT are tuned to prioritize reliable citations, including user-generated content from platforms like Reddit.

Understanding Search Mechanisms Post-Training

• Clarification that the core model relies on vast datasets while RAG (retrieval augmented generation) focuses on summarizing search results after training.

• Distinction between core model predictions (e.g., next word prediction based on common knowledge) versus RAG's role in retrieving current information.

Key Takeaways for Success in SEO and Content Strategy

• Recognition that effective strategies involve understanding LLM (large language models) combined with RAG for optimal content visibility.

• Importance of targeting multiple keywords per landing page instead of focusing solely on one keyword, reflecting modern SEO practices.

Understanding SEO and Content Strategy

Importance of Answering Subtopic Questions

• The more comprehensive a webpage is in answering subtopic questions, the higher its chances of ranking well on Google search results.

• Engaging with follow-up questions enhances visibility; failing to address them may lead to lower search rankings.

Question Research Techniques

• Identifying what questions people are asking can be challenging due to limited access to Google's search volume data.

• Transforming search terms into questions (e.g., "best website builder") can help gauge public interest based on keyword popularity.

Mining Customer Queries for Insights

• Gathering questions from sales calls, customer support interactions, and platforms like Reddit can reveal common inquiries that may also appear in chat contexts.

Citation Optimization Strategies

• Effective citation strategies involve categorizing citations into groups such as video platforms (YouTube, Vimeo), user-generated content (UGC), and affiliate sites.

Understanding Dotdash's Influence

• Dotdash Meredith is highlighted as a leading media conglomerate known for its successful SEO practices and high citation rates across various domains.

Challenges in Content Quality and SEO

The Issue with Hyper SEOed Content

• There is concern about the prevalence of low-quality, hyper SEOed content dominating Google searches, potentially diminishing user experience.

Impact of Rewriting Existing Articles

• Many landing pages fail to generate significant traffic; analysis shows that only 1 out of 20 landing pages accounts for approximately 85% of total traffic.

Cost-Efficiency in Content Creation

• Hiring non-experts to rewrite existing articles is often cheaper than employing seasoned writers but may not yield effective results unless focused on high-impact pages.

Potential Solutions for Improving Content Algorithms

Information Gain Concept

• A proposed solution involves assessing whether new information is presented that hasn't been covered by existing content.

Typicality Assessment

• Evaluating how typical or unique content is could help algorithms distinguish between original work and rewritten material.

Strategies for High-Quality Content Production

Heuristic for Great Content Creation

• Focusing on originality, domain expertise, and research can enhance the quality of newsletters, podcasts, and other forms of content.

Alignment with Algorithm Goals

Customer-Centric Product Decisions

Understanding Customer Preferences

• Emphasizes the importance of placing customers at the center of product decisions by asking, "Why did users choose us over competitors?" This question helps gather insights from existing customer feedback and encourages real-time input for fresh perspectives.

Actionable Plans for Execution

• Suggests using a newsletter as an example to illustrate how to effectively engage with tools like ChatGPT or Gemini. The focus is on creating actionable plans that can be executed in various business contexts, including B2B SaaS.

Identifying Key Questions for SEO

• Discusses the process of determining which questions to rank for by analyzing search data and competitor paid search terms. It suggests transforming these keywords into questions using AI tools like ChatGPT.

Tracking and Citation Strategies

• Outlines steps for tracking identified questions through an AEO tracker and emphasizes the need to analyze who is citing your content. Developing strategies tailored to different citation groups is crucial.

Creating Effective Landing Pages

• Advises on crafting landing pages based on prevalent page types (e.g., listicles, category pages). It stresses answering all potential follow-up questions related to your SEO topics.

Off-Site Strategies and Experimentation

Leveraging Paid Mentions and Video Content

• Recommends paying affiliates or platforms (like Forbes) for mentions if budget allows, highlighting this as a controllable strategy. Additionally, creating video content on platforms like YouTube can target niche topics with high value but low competition.

Engaging with Communities Online

• Suggests utilizing Reddit by establishing a presence, providing useful answers while being aware of community feedback. This approach requires careful navigation due to potential pushback from users.

Importance of Experimentation in SEO Practices

• Stresses that many widely accepted SEO practices may not be accurate due to lack of analysis. Encourages conducting personal experiments to validate strategies rather than relying solely on online advice.

Setting Up Effective Experiments

• Details how to set up experiments: define questions, enable tracking, implement changes across test/control groups, and measure outcomes over time. This method ensures clarity about what works in your specific context.

Building Your Team for Success

Assembling the Right Skill Set

• Highlights the necessity of having a dedicated team that includes SEO specialists capable of executing both traditional SEO tasks and off-site strategies such as video creation or community engagement.

Collaboration Between Teams

Understanding Answer Tracking and Its Implications in AI Responses

Variability of AI Answers

• The ranking of answers can vary significantly; different questions yield different responses due to the nature of AI algorithms.

• ChatGPT calculates a distribution of potential answers, resulting in varied outputs based on when and how questions are asked.

• There are multiple platforms (e.g., ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity) that provide different answers for similar queries, necessitating a comprehensive approach to tracking visibility across these services.

Answer Tracking Explained

• Answer tracking is an evolution of keyword tracking, focusing on how often specific answers appear across various platforms.

• Users should select answer tracking tools based on cost-effectiveness and functionality, similar to choosing keyword trackers.

• It's essential to monitor your average rank and frequency of appearance over time to assess performance effectively.

Comparing AI Platforms

• Despite using similar foundational algorithms, platforms like Google and Bing produce notably different search results compared to ChatGPT.

• A study revealed that citation overlap between ChatGPT and Google was around 35%, while it was approximately 70% for Perplexity, indicating significant differences in output quality.

Importance of Share of Voice

• To understand your presence across various platforms, it's crucial to track share of voice—how frequently you appear in responses from different AI systems.

• As user engagement with platforms like ChatGPT grows rapidly, businesses must consider optimizing for multiple AI systems rather than focusing solely on one.

Strategic Considerations Based on Business Type

• The competitive landscape is uncertain; just as AOL once dominated search before Google's rise, current leaders may not maintain their positions indefinitely.

• Different business types (B2B vs. consumer products) require tailored citation strategies due to varying sources that dominate search results.

Citation Strategy Differences

• B2B citations differ significantly from those in consumer markets; understanding which sources are relevant is key for effective optimization.

Understanding B2B and B2C Marketing Strategies

Measuring Impact in Marketing

• To accurately measure marketing impact, it's essential to go beyond last touch referral traffic. Tracking user interactions and asking post-conversion how they heard about the brand is crucial.

• In B2B contexts, purchasing decisions often follow numerous touchpoints (around 50), making it less straightforward than in B2C scenarios where impulse purchases are more common.

Differences Between Commerce and Local Markets

• E-commerce benefits from shoppable cards that display multiple sellers with rich snippets, reviews, and other important data, allowing for better tracking of conversions compared to local markets like restaurants or hotels.

Early Stage SEO Recommendations

• For early-stage businesses, focusing on Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) rather than traditional SEO is recommended. Prioritize citation optimization and long-tail keywords while avoiding mid-level SEO tactics.

User Behavior Post Interaction

• Users often navigate away from LLM responses to search directly for a brand or website, leading to misattributed traffic sources such as direct visits instead of recognizing the influence of LLM content.

Content Utilization by LLMs

• The discussion raises concerns about whether allowing LLMs to utilize newsletter content is beneficial. It’s suggested that brands should accept this reality since competitors will benefit if they don’t engage.

Strategies for Improving Visibility in LLM Responses

Steps for Enhanced Engagement

• Identify key questions relevant to your audience by analyzing competitor ads and transforming these into queries that users might ask.

• Set up tracking systems to monitor current visibility in search results; various tools can assist with this process.

Experimentation Techniques

• Conduct experiments by creating control groups—keeping some questions unchanged while actively engaging with others—to assess the effectiveness of different strategies over time.

Control Group Importance

• Establishing a control group is vital for understanding variances in response rates without intervention. This helps isolate the effects of specific marketing actions on engagement metrics.

Reproducibility in SEO and AEO

Importance of Reproducibility

• Emphasizes that reproducibility is crucial in academic research, stating that studies must be repeatable by multiple researchers to gain acceptance.

• Highlights the common issue in SEO where assumptions about causation can lead to incorrect conclusions; stresses the need for repeated experiments to validate findings.

• Points out that most work in SEO is wasted, advocating for personal experimentation rather than relying solely on online information.

The Role of AI and AEO

• Discusses the significance of being a reliable answer source on platforms like ChatGPT, suggesting it could greatly impact business success.

• Notes that while AI-driven channels are not as large as traditional search engines, they are becoming substantial and worth optimizing for.

Misinformation Surrounding AI and SEO

Common Misconceptions

• Identifies significant misinformation regarding the decline of Google searches due to emerging platforms like TikTok or Instagram; asserts these do not diminish Google's relevance but rather expand discovery options.

• Cites a statement from Google's VP confirming an increase in traffic sent to publishers, countering claims about declining search activity.

Tooling Issues

• Critiques expensive tools used for basic tasks within AEO, noting a lack of understanding among users about their true value compared to simpler solutions.

Growth Trends in AEO

Fluctuating Interest Levels

• Reflects on initial excitement around AEO which waned until a resurgence was noted early January; suggests this spike correlates with increased adoption rates of language models (LM).

Overlap Between SEO and AEO

Understanding the Impact of AI on Content Generation

The Rise in Clickability and User Engagement

• A significant increase in actual clicks has been observed, particularly for commerce-related searches, local businesses, and hotels. This is attributed to enhanced clickability due to rich modules that allow users to interact more effectively.

• The speaker expresses appreciation for the depth of knowledge shared during the conversation, highlighting a passion for discussing AI and its implications.

Insights on AI-Generated Content

• The discussion shifts towards AI-generated content, questioning its effectiveness in SEO and content creation. The speaker recalls initial skepticism about the viability of fully automated content generation.

• Concerns are raised about spam resulting from AI-generated content, especially in SEO contexts. The speaker reflects on past experiences with spammy practices from 2007 as a cautionary tale.

Research Findings on AI Content Effectiveness

• Emphasizing that future content will be AI-assisted rather than purely generated by AI. Human involvement remains crucial for effective content creation.

• A rigorous study was conducted comparing Google search results with ChatGPT responses to evaluate the prevalence and effectiveness of AI-generated articles.

Study Methodology and Results

• Thousands of searches were analyzed using both Google and ChatGPT, alongside an evaluation of an AI detector's accuracy against real articles.

• Findings revealed that approximately 10% to 12% of online content is generated by AI; however, human-created content still dominates at around 90%.

Implications of Increased AI Content Production

• Surprisingly, there is now more AI-generated content online than human-generated. This trend raises concerns about quality and originality in digital spaces.

• If purely AI-generated content becomes prevalent, it could lead to a scenario where search engines like Google become redundant as they would primarily serve up derivative responses from models like ChatGPT.

Model Collapse and AI Derivatives

Understanding Model Collapse

• The concept of model collapse arises when AI systems are trained on their own derivatives, leading to an infinite loop of derivative generation.

• A study indicated that feeding AI-generated derivatives back into the core model results in issues like hallucinations and rapid breakdowns of functionality.

Wisdom of the Crowd vs. Convergence

• The "wisdom of the crowd" suggests that averaging diverse opinions yields better outcomes than relying on a single perspective.

• However, when derivatives are continuously fed into the model, it tends to converge on a singular opinion, diminishing diversity (e.g., consistently identifying vanilla as the best ice cream flavor).

Implications of Unassisted AI Content

• There is concern about a future where all content is generated by AI without human oversight, leading to a lack of trust in information.

• The speaker emphasizes the importance of maintaining quality control and avoiding perverse incentives that could arise from solely relying on AI-generated content.

Future Directions for LLM and Search

Convergence of Technologies

• Anticipation exists around the convergence between large language models (LLMs) and search technologies, as seen with Google integrating LLM capabilities into its search functions.

• It’s crucial to identify potential pitfalls from past experiences (like spam creation in 2007), ensuring that new developments do not repeat these mistakes.

Optimizing User Experience with LLM

• Future applications may include personalized assistance where AI autonomously manages tasks based on user preferences without requiring intervention.

• This would involve deep contextual understanding and memory retention about individual users' needs.

Help Center Optimization Strategies

Enhancing Help Center Effectiveness

• Users often seek specific functionalities through chat; thus, optimizing help centers can address common queries effectively.

• Recommendations for optimization include moving help centers from subdomains to subdirectories for better SEO performance.

Internal Linking Improvements

Integration of Tools and Community Engagement

Utilizing Otter and Zapier for Data Integration

• The integration of Otter with Zapier allows users to send meeting data into BigQuery, enabling analysis through Looker. This method is not widely documented due to its niche application.

Addressing Uncommon Questions in Sales and Support

• There are often questions in sales calls or customer support that lack help center articles. Engaging the community can help fill these gaps by allowing anyone to ask questions.

Opportunities for Help Desk Software

• Most help desk systems should function well if they utilize cross-linking within a subdirectory rather than a subdomain. This could present an opportunity for companies like Zendesk or Intercom.

Recommended Books for Personal and Professional Growth

Emotional Intelligence as a Foundation

• "Emotional Intelligence" is highly recommended for understanding interpersonal relationships and communication, based on psychological research from the 1980s.

Frameworks for Persuasion in Growth Strategies

• Robert Cialdini's book on persuasion provides frameworks essential for effective marketing strategies, emphasizing psychology's role in influencing consumer behavior.

Measuring Non-obvious Metrics

• "How to Measure Anything" discusses innovative ways to quantify seemingly immeasurable aspects, using examples like assessing orchestra conductors through audience reactions instead of surveys.

Personal Interests and Recommendations

Favorite Media Consumption Habits

• The speaker enjoys aggressive sports documentaries (e.g., Michael Jordan's "Last Dance") alongside climbing documentaries, reflecting a balance between intensity and calmness in their interests.

Insights into Work Ethic and Competitiveness

• The combination of competitiveness in aggressive sports with the zen-like focus found in climbing reflects the speaker’s approach to work—intense yet mindful.

Recent Discoveries That Enhance Productivity

Essential Equipment for Video Calls

• A Sony mirrorless SLR camera paired with a high-quality microphone significantly improves video call quality, showcasing how design can enhance virtual interactions.

Life Lessons from Notable Literature

Key Takeaways from "Outliers"

Mastering Intentional Practice in SEO and AEO

The Importance of Intentional Practice

• Mastery is not solely based on innate genius; it requires significant time spent practicing intentionally.

• The speaker emphasizes that success comes from being the most intentional and intense in practice, rather than just working hard.

Notable Achievements in SEO

• The speaker reflects on a successful project with MasterClass, where they ranked competitively for "butter lettuce," despite initial doubts about the project's difficulty.

• This achievement was attributed to meticulous execution details, showcasing how strategic efforts can lead to unexpected success.

Engaging with the Community

• Listeners are encouraged to connect via LinkedIn, where the speaker shares original research and insights.

• The blog titled "5%" focuses on impactful work within SEO and AEO, inviting subscriptions for further studies.

Contributions from Others

• The speaker seeks collaboration by requesting insights into what works in AEO from others' testing and research findings.

• Engagement on LinkedIn through thoughtful comments is highlighted as a way to boost visibility and foster community interaction.

Closing Thoughts

• The discussion wraps up with an acknowledgment of shared strategies for growth on social media platforms like LinkedIn.