We RANKED Tanks with Naowh & Dorki! 10.2 Tank Roundtable

Name: We RANKED Tanks with Naowh & Dorki! 10.2 Tank Roundtable
Uploaded: 2023-11-17T18:45:38.000Z
Duration: 4 h 48 min 3 s

Introduction and Overview

In this section, the speaker introduces the topic of discussing the changes from patch 10.1.7 to 10.2 in World of Warcraft. They mention focusing on each tank's tier sets and any reworks that have occurred.

Changes to Guardian Druid (Bear Tank)

The speaker suggests starting with Guardian Druid as it has undergone significant changes.

The main change is related to the tier set, which had a lot of Rage generation and provided extra damage to key abilities.

The new tier set is losing a lot compared to the old one, and there was also a nerf to Blood Frenzy.

Blood Frenzy is now better on five targets but significantly worse on very large pulls.

The impact of these changes on rage generation needs further analysis through logs.

Bug Fix and Feedback on New Tier Set

In this section, the speaker discusses a bug fix related to Frenzied Regeneration and shares their initial impressions of the new tier set for Guardian Druid.

There was an annoying bug with Frenzied Regeneration on PTR, but it got fixed recently.

The speaker asks for feedback on the new tier set as they haven't played much Guardian Druid recently.

Initially, they found the new tier set bad due to bugs affecting resolve and Friendzy regions not working properly.

However, if the bugs are fixed, it may improve but might still be overshadowed by other tanks' improvements.

Mechanics of Absorbs in Game

In this section, there is a discussion about how absorbs work in World of Warcraft regarding recent absorbs versus smaller absorbs.

The conversation revolves around how absorbs work in the game, with the most recent absorb being consumed first.

The speaker mentions that this mechanic applies to various abilities, such as Aegis of Light and Blood Shield.

In the new tier set, absorbs are now consumed in the correct order, allowing for damage reflection and better utilization.

Increased Magic Damage in Season 10

In this section, the discussion focuses on the increase in magic damage compared to melee damage in Season 10.

There is a noticeable increase in magic damage compared to previous seasons, with some encounters having up to 50-70% magic damage.

This shift towards more magic damage may negatively impact Guardian Druid's performance.

The speaker expresses doubts about Guardian Druid's viability in high-level keys due to this change.

Conclusion

In conclusion, this transcript covers discussions about changes to Guardian Druid's tier set and its impact on gameplay. It also highlights bugs related to Frenzied Regeneration and addresses concerns about increased magic damage in Season 10.

New Section

The speaker discusses the interaction between abilities in different scenarios, such as using Embolic Turnus and Death Strike during Abis Turnus. They also mention how Blood Shield and Umbilicus interact when refreshing Blood Shield.

Interaction of Abilities

When using Embolic Turnus and Death Strike during Abis Turnus, Blood Shield will go first.

If you refresh your Blood Shield after using Blood Strike or Death Strike with Umbilicus, it does not get applied but refreshed.

New Section

The speaker talks about changes in the Guardian tier set and how it works differently now.

Changes in the Guardian Tier Set

The interaction of abilities in the Guardian tier set has been modified.

The speaker mentions that there is a separate rule for how the Guardian tier set works compared to other abilities like UFR (Unstoppable Force Rotation).

New Section

The speaker discusses their thoughts on the previous Warrior tier set and their initial impressions of the new one.

Thoughts on Previous Warrior Tier Set

The speaker somewhat liked the previous Warrior tier set but found it strange to use AOE abilities.

They also mention that pressing Last Stand frequently felt unnatural compared to its previous usage as a pseudo-defensive ability.

Impressions of New Warrior Tier Set

The speaker thinks that the new Warrior tier set is broken due to its high uptime of damage reduction (DR).

They recall an issue with the previous version where equipping Foret resulted in a single-target DPS loss, but they are unsure if it has been fixed.

Additionally, they mention that the new tier set procs differently based on rage spending, making Ignore Pain more effective than spending rage on Revenge or Execute.

New Section

The speaker continues discussing the new Warrior tier set and its impact on gameplay.

Effectiveness of New Warrior Tier Set

The speaker believes that the new tier set provides a significant defensive boost with its high uptime of damage reduction.

They mention that in their experience, the extra 14% DR from Ignore Pain has a high uptime, which increases to 16% when using Thunder Roar.

While they acknowledge that the damage output is not insane, they consider it decent for single-target situations.

New Section

The speaker expresses their concern about playing Warrior in Mythic+ dungeons with the new tier set and discusses talent choices.

Concerns with New Warrior Tier Set in Mythic+

The speaker mentions that reducing the cooldown of Thunderous Roar is crucial for maximizing damage output.

They explain that playing with cooldown reduction (CDR) on Thunderous Roar talent is necessary but conflicts with using Shockwave.

Losing Shockwave can be detrimental in a proper group setup where it is considered a valuable spell.

Talent Choices

The speaker suggests not running Bolster and Heavy Repercussions talents.

They recommend having slightly over 35% haste unbuffed and good Into The Fray value to achieve close to 100% Shield Block uptime.

Instead of Bolster, Blood Surge could be considered as an alternative talent choice.

New Section

The speaker elaborates on talent choices for Warriors and their impact on gameplay.

Talent Choices Continued

Playing Spell Block allows for taking Cut Off as Nails and getting Blood Surge while maintaining Shield Block uptime.

Thunderlord is preferred over Show Force due to its effectiveness in both current and previous seasons.

Disrupting Shout can still be worth considering if there is a need for AoE disruption.

New Section

The speaker discusses the effectiveness of the Warrior tier set and its impact on damage reduction.

Effectiveness of Warrior Tier Set

The speaker considers the Warrior tier set to be one of the strongest they have seen in a while.

They mention having around 85% uptime of damage reduction in most Mythic+ keys played on PTR (Public Test Realm).

The exact optimization is uncertain, but it can vary between 75% and higher depending on gear and other factors.

New Section

The speaker concludes their thoughts on the new Warrior tier set and talent choices.

Final Thoughts on New Warrior Tier Set

The speaker finds the damage output from the new tier set to be decent.

They express concern about talent choices conflicting with Thunderous Roar cooldown reduction and Shockwave usage.

Despite this concern, they believe that overall, the new tier set is incredibly strong defensively.

Analysis of Paladin Tier Sets

In this section, the speaker discusses the different tier sets for Paladins and their effectiveness.

Paladin Tier Sets

The 1.7 tier set was considered boring and not good.

The 10.2 tier set is highly anticipated and has received positive feedback.

The current tier set doubles down on the weaknesses of a protection paladin but provides significant damage output if played correctly.

Playing around the consecration ability can result in high offensive capabilities.

Overall, the current tier set is considered to be the best for protection paladins in this expansion.

Benefits of the Paladin Tier Set

In this section, the speaker discusses how playing around the Paladin tier set can provide additional benefits.

Benefits of Playing Around the Tier Set

The tier set adds another cooldown-like effect to protection paladins' rotation.

It helps fill in downtime and strengthens sustained damage output.

By delaying certain abilities until after the tier set's duration, players can extend its benefits and have stronger pulls.

However, heavy movement-based fights or situations where holding consecration is not possible may pose challenges.

Challenges with DK Tier Set

In this section, the speaker talks about challenges faced by Death Knights with their tier set.

Challenges with Death Knight Tier Set

Not much has changed for Death Knights overall except for their tier set.

The tier set significantly boosts damage output during burst phases.

It can be clunky on larger pulls due to overwriting procs and target caps on abilities like DND (Death and Decay) and Heart Strike.

Applying the proc to all targets becomes challenging when pulling a large number of mobs.

Movement-based fights and bosses with high mobility can also pose challenges for Death Knights.

The transcript provided does not include timestamps beyond 0:18:04, so the summary is based on the available content.

New Section

The discussion focuses on the viability of certain talents and abilities in World of Warcraft, specifically regarding damage output and survivability for different classes.

Soul Reaper Talent for Death Knights

The Soul Reaper talent is discussed as a potential choice for Death Knights.

It is debated whether Soul Reaper is effective for both single target and AoE damage.

The impact of playing Soul Reaper alongside other abilities like Hard Strike is considered.

The question arises if Soul Reaper will become a popular raid talent instead of Abomination's Might.

New Section

The conversation continues to explore the viability of the Soul Reaper talent for Death Knights and its comparison to other talents.

Comparing Soul Reaper to Other Talents

The discussion revolves around whether playing Soul Reaper is preferable over using other talents like Empower Rune Weapon.

The potential drawbacks and benefits of using Soul Reaper are analyzed, including its damage output and overall effectiveness in different scenarios.

Abomination's Might is mentioned as a potentially weak talent choice for single target damage.

New Section

The focus shifts to Brewmaster Monks and their performance in raids, particularly their damage output and survivability.

Performance of Brewmaster Monks

Brewmaster Monks are discussed in terms of their damage potential on the PTR (Public Test Realm).

There is uncertainty about recent nerfs to Brewmaster Monks' Tier 2 set bonus, affecting both defensive capabilities and healing aspects.

Despite these changes, Brewmaster Monks are still considered to have high single target damage compared to other tank classes.

Personal experiences with testing Brewmaster Monks reveal positive results in terms of survivability during challenging encounters.

New Section

The conversation delves deeper into the strengths and weaknesses of Brewmaster Monks, particularly their sustainability and armor.

Challenges Faced by Brewmaster Monks

The low armor of Brewmaster Monks is highlighted as a potential factor contributing to their limitations in sustaining damage.

The significance of augmentation abilities, such as Celestial Brew, in mitigating damage is discussed.

The impact of playing with an Orc race character (which provides additional armor) on Brewmaster Monks' survivability is considered.

Personal experiences suggest that Brewmaster Monks may struggle with resource management during prolonged encounters.

New Section

The discussion concludes with considerations about the future viability of Brewmaster Monks and the potential nerfing of Orc racial abilities.

Viability and Future Changes for Brewmaster Monks

The necessity of playing with an Orc character for optimal performance as a Brewmaster Monk is debated.

Concerns are raised about the potential negative impact on player satisfaction if Orc racial abilities remain essential for raid composition.

The vulnerability of Brewmaster Monks due to their lower armor compared to other tank classes is emphasized.

Speculation arises regarding possible changes or nerfs to Orc racial abilities in order to promote more diverse tank choices.

Brewmaster and Vengeance Tank Discussion

In this section, the speakers discuss the current state of Brewmaster and Vengeance tanks in the game.

Brewmaster Tank

The agility of Brewmaster tank allows for more agility-based benefits such as stagger.

There is concern that if they nerf certain abilities like "org," it will negatively impact Brewmaster tanks.

Playing with "org" seems to be holding Brewmaster tanks in a decent position currently.

Vengeance Tank

The speakers express excitement about the Vengeance tank class, considering it to be very strong.

The utility and overall power of Vengeance tanks have been significantly improved.

Sigils provide excellent utility, allowing for hard lockdown of multiple mobs for an extended period.

The amount of raw damage reduction (DR) and healing potential has increased significantly for Vengeance tanks.

Flame sigil uptime is greatly enhanced with illuminated sigils, providing a 20% extra parry chance on mobs almost permanently in AoE situations.

Comparing Brewmaster and Vengeance Tanks

The speakers acknowledge that while both tanks are strong defensively, playing as a Vengeance tank feels noticeably more powerful.

Vengeance tanks have reduced magic damage baseline compared to other tanks due to abilities like fell flame fortification.

Double sigils with cooldown reduction (CDR) provide exceptional utility for Vengeance tanks.

Overall, the utility and strength of Vengeance tanks make them highly desirable in high-level content.

Timestamps provided are approximate.

New Section

In this section, the speakers discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the Vengeance tank specialization in World of Warcraft.

Vengeance Tank Strengths

Vengeance is strong defensively, especially in AoE situations. It has abilities like Fiery Brand that spread quickly and generate threat on multiple enemies.

The tier set bonus provides a significant amount of additional souls, increasing overall survivability.

Vengeance has high fury generation, which prevents resource issues during combat.

Playing with Felblade talent helps overcome Fury shortage and optimizes gameplay.

Comparing Vengeance to Other Tanks

Vengeance tanks have a significant advantage in terms of damage reduction compared to other tanks when using Soul Cleave instead of building up Soul Crush.

The introduction of Cheat Death ability (Cheat Death) further enhances survivability for Vengeance tanks.

Despite being overbuffed, the speakers agree that playing as a Vengeance tank feels satisfying and enjoyable due to its playstyle and self-sufficiency.

New Section

In this section, the speakers discuss how playing as a Vengeance tank allows for more control over encounters and reduces reliance on healers.

Benefits of Playing as a Vengeance Tank

Playing as a Vengeance tank allows for greater control over crowd control abilities and AOE stops.

The self-sufficiency of a Vengeance tank reduces reliance on healers and enables solo playstyle in certain situations.

Being able to silence mobs permanently and lockdown priority targets makes Vengeance tanks highly valuable in Mythic+ dungeons.

New Section

In this section, the speakers discuss potential tank choices for raid encounters and the advantages of bringing specific tanks to raids.

Tank Choices for Raid Encounters

The speakers mention that they will discuss Echo's tank choices for raid encounters but decide not to reveal too much information.

They briefly touch on the advantages of bringing specific tanks to raids but do not provide detailed insights.

[t=0:37:12s] Resto Druid and Guardian Druid Discussion

The discussion revolves around the viability of Resto Druid and Guardian Druid in raids. The participants express their opinions on the effectiveness of these classes and discuss their damage output.

Resto Druid

Resto Druid is considered to be lacking in terms of performance.

Guardian D, another participant, agrees that Guardian Druid doesn't offer anything special as a tank.

Despite this, Guardian Druid still manages to deal decent damage.

It is unlikely that players would bring a tank to a raid solely based on its DPS advantage over other tanks.

Viability of Guardian Druid

The participants agree that they don't see Guardian Druid being played in raids at all.

They suggest placing it in the "buff me" category, indicating that it needs improvements.

The term "buff me" is used as a polite way to say that something is not performing well.

Potential Fixes for Guardian Druid

Fixing bugs may improve the class but won't make it significantly better.

The participants believe that the spec requires actual changes rather than just bug fixes.

A comparison is made with Red Pala's rework, where changes to talents and tier sets greatly impacted its performance.

[t=0:38:39s] Tier Sets and Impact on Classes

The conversation shifts towards the impact of tier sets on class performance. Examples are given from previous expansions where tier sets had significant effects on damage output.

Impact of Tier Sets

Tier sets can greatly influence class performance in terms of damage output.

If a class/spec loses a powerful tier set without receiving an equally good or better replacement, it will likely be indirectly nerfed.

Comparison with Red Pala Rework

A comparison is made between Red Pala's rework and the current situation of Guardian Druid.

Red Pala initially had weak talents but a strong tier set that compensated for the lack of damage.

After receiving better talents, Red Pala became overpowered and was subsequently nerfed.

Similarly, Guardian Druid had a powerful tier set in 10.2, which contributed to its high damage output.

However, it received nerfs and lost the tier set in subsequent updates, resulting in a significant decrease in performance.

[t=0:40:16s] Discouraging Guardian Druid Play

The participants express their discouragement towards playing Guardian Druid due to its current state.

Discouragement from Playing Guardian Druid

The participants strongly advise against playing Guardian Druid.

They suggest choosing another class/spec for a more enjoyable experience in World of Warcraft.

The drastic shift from being the best healer to one of the worst is highlighted as an example of how classes can change drastically.

[t=0:41:09s] Blood Death Knight Discussion

The discussion shifts towards Blood Death Knights and their potential strength in raids.

Expectations for Blood Death Knights

The participants anticipate that Blood Death Knights will be very strong in raids.

It is mentioned that DKs have historically been powerful tanks.

The potential impact of legendary items on DK performance is also discussed.

Legendary Items for DKs

There were leaks about legendary items for DKs, but they are considered fake by the participants.

If the legendary item turns out to be as good as Gav's (a reference to a powerful legendary), then DKs will be exceptionally strong.

Different Perspectives on Tank Performance

It is acknowledged that tank performance can vary depending on factors such as progression and access to legendary items.

For someone progressing through raid content over several months, having a powerful legendary could greatly enhance their tanking capabilities.

[t=0:42:36s] Legendary Acquisition and Splitting

The conversation revolves around the acquisition of legendary items and its impact on raid progression.

Legendary Acquisition

The participants discuss the possibility of acquiring legendary items early in the raid.

It is mentioned that Blizzard intends to change the legendary acquisition process compared to previous expansions.

Obtaining a powerful legendary item in the first week of raiding is considered unlikely.

Splitting Raid Runs

The idea of splitting raid runs is brought up, indicating that if someone gets a powerful legendary early, they may need to split their runs with others who haven't obtained it yet.

This highlights the potential disparity between players based on their access to powerful legendaries.

These notes provide an overview of the key points discussed in the transcript. They cover topics such as Resto Druid and Guardian Druid viability, tier sets' impact on class performance, discouragement towards playing Guardian Druid, expectations for Blood Death Knights, and considerations regarding legendary item acquisition.

Loot and Evokers in Last Day Abus

The speaker discusses the loot system in Last Day Abus, where players had to wait for the first evoker to kill Mythic Suth on the server or region before anyone could obtain the loot. However, it was mentioned that they do not want to repeat this system.

In Last Day Abus, players had to wait for the first evoker to kill Mythic Suth on the server or region before obtaining loot.

The speaker mentions that they don't want to repeat this system as it was considered cringe.

Comparing Loot Systems with Legion's Legendary Trinket

The speaker compares the loot system in Last Day Abus with Legion's legendary trinket acquisition. They discuss how easy it was to obtain Amon's trinket straight from normal difficulty and express jealousy for not having it on their Death Knight (DK).

In Legion, players could easily obtain Amon's trinket straight from normal difficulty.

The speaker expresses jealousy for not having Amon's trinket on their DK.

Speculating about Blood DK's Strength and Legendaries

The speaker speculates about the strength of Blood DK and its potential legendaries in Last Day Abus. They mention that if Blood DK is good, it will likely be considered a strong choice due to being a late expansion legendary.

It is speculated that Blood DK will be strong in Last Day Abus.

Blood DK is expected to have powerful legendaries due to being a late expansion class.

Blood DK's Damage Output and Scaling

The speaker discusses Blood DK's damage output and scaling in previous expansions. They mention that while Blood DK's damage may not always be the highest, it is still considered strong and has improved in recent patches.

Blood DK's damage output may not always be the highest, but it is still strong.

Blood DK's damage has improved in recent patches.

Blood DK is known for scaling well with stats like haste and versatility.

Smooth Gameplay and Scaling of Blood DK

The speaker highlights the smooth gameplay experience of playing a Blood DK when they have sufficient stats like haste and versatility. They mention that as the expansion progresses, acquiring more of these stats makes playing a Blood DK even better.

Playing a Blood DK becomes smoother with higher amounts of haste and versatility.

Acquiring more stats improves the gameplay experience of a Blood DK.

Comparing Scaling of Brewmaster Monk and Blood DK

The speaker compares the scaling of Brewmaster Monk (BRW) and Blood DK. They mention that while both tanks scale well with items, playing a Blood DK feels particularly good when they have high stats. However, they acknowledge that other players may have different opinions on this matter.

Both Brewmaster Monk and Blood DK scale well with items.

Playing a high-stat Blood DK feels particularly good compared to other tanks.

Different players may have different opinions on tank scaling.

Excitement for Playing Death Knight in Last Day Abus Raid

The speaker expresses excitement for playing a Death Knight (DK) in the Last Day Abus raid. They anticipate that playing a DK will provide a satisfying gameplay experience, especially in heroic and mythic difficulties.

The speaker is excited about playing a Death Knight in the Last Day Abus raid.

They anticipate that playing a Death Knight will be satisfying, especially in heroic and mythic difficulties.

Blood DK's Strength in the Raid

The speaker discusses the strength of Blood DK in the raid. They believe that while it may not be considered best-in-slot (BiS) or meta, it is still a very strong tank option.

The speaker believes that Blood DK is a very strong tank option in the raid.

They do not consider it to be BiS or meta, but still powerful.

Assessing Brewmaster Monk's Viability in the Raid

The speaker assesses the viability of Brewmaster Monk (BRW) in the raid. They initially thought BRW would not be necessary due to other factors, but acknowledge that BRW can still be strong and have solid damage output.

Initially, the speaker did not think Brewmaster Monk would be necessary in the raid.

However, they acknowledge that BRW can still be strong and have solid damage output.

Factors Influencing Tank Choices for Raid Composition

The speaker discusses various factors that influence tank choices for raid composition. They mention considering group composition and how certain tanks may synergize better with specific classes or roles.

Group composition plays a role in determining which tanks are chosen for a raid.

Certain tanks may synergize better with specific classes or roles.

Evaluating Mistweaver Monk and Brewmaster Monk Combination

The speaker evaluates the combination of Mistweaver Monk (Mist Weaver) and Brewmaster Monk (BRW) in terms of tank choices for the Last Day Abus raid. They believe that having Mist Weaver as a healer allows room for choosing BRW as a tank due to their perceived strength.

Having Mistweaver as a healer opens up possibilities for choosing Brewmaster Monk as a tank.

The perceived strength of Brewmaster Monk influences its viability in the raid.

Comparing Brewmaster Monk and Blood DK for Raid Tanking

The speaker compares Brewmaster Monk and Blood DK for raid tanking in Last Day Abus. They believe that while Brewmaster Monk may not be as strong as Blood DK, it is still considered really good and has solid performance.

The speaker believes that Brewmaster Monk is not as strong as Blood DK for raid tanking.

However, they still consider Brewmaster Monk to be really good with solid performance.

Assessing Prot Paladin's Viability in the Raid

The speaker discusses the viability of Protection Paladin (Prot Pala) in the Last Day Abus raid. They mention that they will personally be playing Prot Pala and have been considering various factors when choosing their tank class.

The speaker will be playing a Protection Paladin in the Last Day Abus raid.

They have been considering various factors when choosing their tank class.

Off Healing and Impact of Prot Paladins

The speaker discusses the unique aspect of prot paladins in World of Warcraft, highlighting their off-healing capabilities and impact on raids.

Off Healing Abilities of Prot Paladins

Prot paladins are the only tank class that remains useful even when not actively tanking.

Other tanks primarily focus on dealing damage while not tanking, but prot paladins can provide off-healing support to the raid.

While druids also have healing abilities, they do not need to shift out of their form to heal effectively.

Importance of Spot Healing in Raids

Spot healing, which involves quickly healing players who take sudden burst damage or make mistakes, is crucial in raids.

Prot paladins excel at spot healing due to their ability to deal significant damage while simultaneously providing important heals.

Sustained damage taken by the raid is usually covered by dedicated healers, but spot healing is where prot paladins shine.

Strengths and Considerations for Prot Paladins

The speaker acknowledges a potential bias towards prot paladins but believes they are incredibly strong.

However, certain raid encounters may be challenging for prot paladins due to punishing mechanics.

Despite this, the speaker still considers prot paladins to be a tier above other tanks in terms of what they bring to a raid.

Role of Prot Paladins in Raid Composition

The speaker discusses why having a protection paladin in a raid composition can be advantageous and how it affects other roles.

Need for Two Paladins in Raid Composition

Red Paladins (Retribution) are not exceptionally strong DPS-wise this tier. Therefore, having two Holy Paladins is not ideal.

To optimize the raid composition, it is preferable to have a second paladin, and prot paladins are the best choice due to their strength.

Impact of Prot Paladins on Raid Composition

By bringing a prot paladin, the raid can benefit from their unique abilities and utility.

Not having a prot paladin means potentially missing out on a stronger healer or another DPS class that could contribute more damage.

Evaluating Prot Paladins in Comparison to Other Tanks

The speaker reflects on whether prot paladins should be considered as "really strong" or just "incredibly strong" compared to other tank classes.

Unmatched Utility of Prot Paladins

No other tank class can compete with the utility and unique abilities that prot paladins bring to a raid.

In terms of what they offer, prot paladins stand above other tanks in terms of healing support and overall impact.

Player Skill Dependency for Prot Paladins

The effectiveness of a prot paladin heavily relies on the player's skill level and understanding of their role.

If someone is new to tanking or lacks knowledge about utilizing all aspects of a prot paladin's toolkit, they may not perform optimally.

In such cases, it might be better for them to play another tank class like Brewmaster or Blood Death Knight.

Acknowledging Potential Overhyping of Prot Paladins

The speaker acknowledges their personal bias towards prot paladins but admits there may be some overhyping involved.

Personal Bias Towards Prot Paladins

The speaker admits being a big fan of prot paladins and acknowledges potential overhyping due to personal preference.

They believe prot paladins deserve to be considered a tier above other tanks but acknowledge the possibility of overestimating their strength.

Importance of Individual Experience

The speaker emphasizes that their opinion is based on personal experience and love for playing prot paladins.

However, they acknowledge that individual experiences may vary, and others might have different perspectives on prot paladin's strength.

Sacks and Blessing of Sacrifice

The speaker clarifies the term "sacks" and discusses the usefulness of Blessing of Sacrifice in raids.

Sacking Tanks and Blessing of Sacrifice

"Sacking" refers to using Blessing of Sacrifice on another tank to prevent them from taking damage.

By placing Blessing of Sacrifice on another tank, the prot paladin can focus more on off-healing and supporting the raid.

This ability, along with other utility spells like spot healing, makes prot paladins extremely powerful in raids.

Tank Strength Comparison

The speakers discuss the strength of different tank classes in the game and their viability for raiding.

Vengeance Demon Hunter

Vengeance Demon Hunter is expected to be on par with Brewmaster Monk and Blood Death Knight in terms of strength.

There is uncertainty about how good Vengeance Demon Hunter will be, but it is predicted to be solid for raiding.

If Havoc Demon Hunter gets nerfed significantly, Vengeance Demon Hunter's value may increase.

Warrior

Warriors are considered to be strong tanks, even on fights with heavy magic damage.

With the new tier set, Warriors are defensively solid and will perform well in raids.

The removal of Inspiring Presence talent and a slight nerf to Ravager ability have affected Warrior's overall performance.

Paladin

Paladins are slightly below average in terms of single-target damage compared to other tanks.

However, if all tanks prioritize survivability builds, Paladins would rank higher.

Guardian Druid

Guardian Druid is not recommended for raiding due to its perceived weakness compared to other tank classes.

Tank Composition Considerations

The choice of tank composition depends on various factors such as fight mechanics and raid composition.

Bringing two powerful Havoc Demon Hunters and a Protection Paladin might be preferred over bringing a Retribution Paladin or another tank class.

Overall, every tank class has its strengths and can be viable for raiding except for Guardian Druid.

Discussion about Dorky

The speakers mention Dorky and discuss his opinions on tank classes. They also talk about playing as a Guardian Druid.

Dorky's Opinion

Dorky expresses dissatisfaction with playing as a Guardian Druid and suggests playing old school RuneScape instead.

The speakers mention that Dorky seems to be depressed and not enjoying the game.

Guardian Druid

The speakers agree that Guardian Druid is not a recommended choice for raiding and suggest avoiding it.

They humorously suggest that even Dorky himself would advise against playing as a Guardian Druid.

Final Thoughts

The speakers conclude their discussion on tank classes for raiding.

Overall, the speakers are satisfied with the tank class rankings discussed in the transcript.

They acknowledge that tank composition choices may vary depending on fight mechanics and raid composition.

The speakers emphasize that except for Guardian Druid, all other tank classes are considered strong and viable for raiding.

Analysis of Blood Death Knight in Mythic Plus

The speaker discusses the challenges and limitations of playing a Blood Death Knight (DK) in high-end Mythic Plus content. They highlight the lack of utility and raid buffs that DKs bring to the group, making them fall behind compared to other tanks. The speaker also mentions that even if DKs had higher damage output, it wouldn't compensate for the absence of abilities like Chaos Brand or Mark of the Wild.

Challenges Faced by Blood Death Knights

DK lacks control and group utility, unlike other tank classes.

Lack of survivability against certain tank buster mechanics at extremely high key levels.

Struggles with extreme physical damage encounters, such as Shield Bearers in Atal'Dazar.

Difficulty dealing with mobs that cast absorb abilities, like in Throne of Tides.

Potential Changes to Raid Buff Impact in Mythic Plus

The speaker shares a conversation they had with Ian at BlizzCon regarding the impact of raid buffs on Mythic Plus. They mention that reducing the impact of raid buffs inside Mythic Plus is being considered as a potential change. This could involve either reducing their effect or introducing alternative solutions such as scrolls or aura nerfs.

Potential Changes to Raid Buff Impact

Ian expressed interest in reducing the impact of raid buffs inside Mythic Plus.

Possible changes could include reducing their effect, reintroducing scrolls, or implementing aura nerfs.

The speaker hopes for a clean solution that addresses the imbalance caused by raid buffs without compromising gameplay.

Overall Assessment of Blood Death Knight in Mythic Plus

The speaker concludes by stating that while Blood DKs may not excel in high-end content, they are still a viable and enjoyable choice for players who are not pushing extremely high keys. They acknowledge that DKs perform well in most groups but fall behind at the highest levels of play due to their lack of utility and raid buffs.

Final Thoughts on Blood Death Knights

Blood DKs are suitable for most groups and perform well until very high-end content.

They may not be the top choice for pushing extremely high keys due to their limitations.

Despite this, DKs can still be a strong and enjoyable option for players in lower key ranges or those seeking a fun alternative.

Tank Discussion: Death Knight and Brewmaster

In this section, the speakers discuss the strengths and weaknesses of Death Knights (DK) and Brewmasters as tanks in Mythic Plus dungeons.

Death Knight (DK)

DK is favored by tank players due to its burst damage and self-sustainability.

The feeling of taking care of oneself and surviving when playing well is highly satisfying.

DK's performance can be an issue in fortified dungeons.

Other tanks have more control compared to DK, but nerfing their control abilities may not be the best solution.

Brewmaster

Brewmaster is considered a strong tank, especially when played with augmentation.

Playing with augmentation provides significant benefits for all tanks.

The difference between playing Brewmaster with and without augmentation is noticeable, allowing for longer pool stays and better survivability.

Brewmaster has unique strong buffs such as close to heart, physical debuff, and party-wide avoidance.

It is considered a really strong tank for high-level keys due to these buffs.

Evaluating Brewmaster's Strength

In this section, the speakers discuss whether Brewmaster should be considered overrated or not.

One speaker believes that Brewmaster is slightly overrated compared to other tanks due to their class buffs being less impactful.

The 5% physical damage buff provided by Brewmasters is not as valuable as other tank buffs.

However, the close to heart buff provided by Brewmasters (8% increased healing and shields) can make a significant difference in certain situations where survival is crucial.

Defensively, Brewmasters are considered pretty good, while offensively they are also strong.

Reevaluating Tank Rankings

In this section, the speakers discuss their revised rankings for tanks in Mythic Plus dungeons.

Both speakers agree that Brewmaster should be moved to the average category due to the strength of other tanks.

While Brewmaster is still a decent choice, it falls behind the top-tier tanks.

Guardian Druid is considered one of the worst tanks in Mythic Plus dungeons currently.

One speaker strongly believes that Guardian Druid is garbage and has been performing poorly.

The tank's performance has declined significantly compared to previous patches and expansions.

Reflecting on Guardian Druid's Performance

In this section, the speakers discuss the decline in Guardian Druid's performance and its current state.

Guardian Druid was previously considered a solid tank, especially during Shadowlands Season 1.

However, its performance has worsened over time, with more issues than benefits.

The decline in performance is comparable to when it was mentioned as a weak tank during BFA.

One speaker recalls playing Druid during BFA but not considering it as strong as Protection Warrior at that time.

Evaluating Protection Paladin

In this section, the speakers discuss their thoughts on Protection Paladins as tanks in Mythic Plus dungeons.

Protection Paladin is considered one of the strong tanks for Mythic Plus dungeons.

It is ranked highly by both speakers and placed in the "really strong" category.

Prota-like and Utility Comparison

The speaker discusses the strengths of Prota-like and compares its utility to Vengeance. They mention that while Avengers shield is strong, Vengeance performs better overall in terms of utility.

Prota-like is considered very strong in a plus.

Avengers shield is broken in a plus, but Vengeance performs better overall.

There may be situations where Prota-like cannot silence and only kick.

Tankiness Comparison

The speaker expresses their opinion on tankiness and compares Pro Warrior and V tank to Prota-like. They believe that the other two tanks are tankier in a plus.

The speaker personally feels that V tank and Pro Warrior are much tankier than Prota-like in a plus.

They acknowledge the need to play more as Pro Warrior to have a better understanding.

Overall Strength of Prota-like

The speaker discusses the overall strength of Prota-like as a tank. They mention that it is good all over the place with no significant weaknesses.

Prota-like is considered a tank that is good in all aspects without any major weaknesses.

It was particularly strong in season one due to its ability to deal with various situations effectively.

Niche Value of Paladin

The speaker mentions the niche value of Paladin, specifically referring to certain dungeon bosses where Prop Paladin can solo mobs or handle specific mechanics effectively.

Prop Paladin has niche value in dungeons like Everbloom, where they can solo certain mobs or handle specific mechanics efficiently.

However, it depends on how long it takes and requires expertise to execute properly.

Tankiness of Prota-like in a Plus

The speaker discusses the tankiness of Prota-like in a plus compared to other tanks. They mention specific boss encounters where Prota-like may face challenges.

There are some problems with the tankiness of Prota-like in certain boss encounters.

The tree boss in Dark C F is mentioned as one that can destroy Prota-like due to mechanics like frontal attacks and grip abilities.

Bubble and Tor do not provide complete protection against these mechanics, which is unusual for dungeon mechanics.

Leap Abilities and Rescuing

The speaker discusses how Vengeance and Pro Warrior have leap abilities that help them deal with certain boss mechanics. They also mention the possibility of using rescue as a Prop Paladin.

Both Vengeance and Pro Warrior can leap away from certain boss mechanics, providing an advantage in high-level keys.

Prop Paladin can potentially use rescue but requires precise timing to avoid getting shot down.

Vengeance Tank's Strength

The speaker acknowledges that Vengeance is currently considered one of the strongest tanks due to its rework. They discuss its damage output, AOE capabilities, and single-target value.

Vengeance tank's damage output is not considered insane compared to other tanks but excels in AOE situations.

Single-target value is emphasized as more valuable than AOE capabilities for tanks in dungeons.

Vengeance had impressive single-target damage when it was first introduced, which significantly impacted dungeon runs.

Utility Value of Vengeance

The speaker highlights the utility value of Vengeance tank, stating that even if its tankiness and damage were nerfed, it would still be valuable due to its utility.

The utility provided by Vengeance tank is considered the biggest strength.

Clean gameplay and utility are often prioritized over pure numbers in dungeons.

Bringing a tank with significant utility that makes it easier for the group to do damage is highly valuable.

Demon Hunter Vengeance Strengths and Weaknesses

In this section, the speakers discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the Demon Hunter Vengeance specialization in World of Warcraft.

Gathering Mobs for Large Pulls

The Demon Hunter Vengeance specialization excels in large pulls with more mobs, as it gains more souls and becomes more powerful.

The main challenge is gathering mobs together for these large pulls.

Previously, players used abilities like Flame Glaive to group up mobs, but there were issues with Throw Glaive not generating enough aggro.

It can be awkward to pull mobs together, especially when they are spread out.

Awkwardness at the Beginning of Pulls

Starting a pull as a Demon Hunter can be challenging and awkward.

Previously, players would use Flame Sigil at the beginning of a pull, but now they want to save it for later in the pull to hit all the mobs effectively.

The introduction of new tier sets has changed how players group up mobs.

Adjustments for Better Pulling

Illusion Decree is a recommended talent choice for better pulling.

Players can also use Throw Glaive that hits three mobs and have double charges to help with pulling.

The size of the pack determines whether using Flame Sigil is worth it or not. For smaller packs, it may not be necessary.

Improved Ramping Time

This season, ramping time has improved due to faster soul generation with Painbringer and quicker spreading of Brand.

However, pulling everything together remains challenging.

Different Perspectives on Pulling Difficulty

One speaker feels that pulling as a Demon Hunter is still difficult but not as much as last season. They emphasize committing to using Flame Sigil and taking advantage of tier set effects.

Another speaker disagrees and believes that pulling as a Demon Hunter is not a major problem. They suggest committing to using Flame Sigil and residual flames, Legion decrees, and taking advantage of the shorter cooldown of Fel Devastation.

Bug with Throw Glaive Aggro

There was a bug where mobs would ignore the player after using Throw Glaive, running towards other targets instead.

The threat generator for Throw Glaive seemed ineffective due to low damage output.

It is unclear if this bug has been fixed or not.

Comparing Pulling Challenges in Different Seasons

In this section, the speakers discuss their perspectives on pulling challenges in different seasons of World of Warcraft.

Pulling Challenges Last Season

Last season, there were difficulties with getting Brands to spread and generating enough aggro before fully engaging with mobs.

Players had to be mindful of aggro management and getting their Brands spreading effectively.

Improved Pulling Experience This Season

This season, one speaker feels that pulling as a Demon Hunter has improved compared to last season.

They attribute this improvement to faster ramping time with Painbringer and easier Brand spreading.

Once Flame Sigil is down, the pulling experience becomes smoother.

Effort Required for Pulling

While pulling as a Demon Hunter may require more effort compared to other tanks who can simply throw a shield, it is manageable.

The average player may need some practice but it is not considered a major problem.

Bug with Aggro Generation

There was a bug related to aggro generation when using Sigils out of combat. Mobs would ignore the player and target others nearby instead.

This issue was raised during an MDI event but it is unclear if it has been resolved or when exactly it occurred.

The transcript provided does not have any timestamps beyond 1:25:01.

Tank Discussion and Comparisons

In this section, the speakers discuss the strengths and weaknesses of different tank classes in a game. They specifically focus on the Pro Warrior class and compare it to other tanks like Prot Paladin and Vengeance Demon Hunter.

Pro Warrior Strengths and Weaknesses

The speakers mention that Pro Warrior is not their favorite specialization.

The utility of Pro Warrior is highlighted, particularly its reflect ability.

Reflect ability is considered strong for dealing with certain mechanics.

The speakers recall a past experience where reflect was crucial in defeating a boss.

Reflect ability is seen as one of the main strengths of Warriors.

However, compared to other top tanks, Pro Warrior lacks in terms of stops and mob control abilities.

It is mentioned that Vengeance Demon Hunter has stronger utility overall.

Magic Damage Resistance

The speakers discuss the resistance of Pro Warrior against magic damage.

They mention that magic damage is not a problem for Pro Warriors due to abilities like spell block and demo shout.

It is noted that some bosses or encounters may have heavy magic damage over time effects that can be challenging for Warriors.

Comparison with Other Tanks

The speakers compare Pro Warrior to Prot Paladin and Vengeance Demon Hunter.

Prot Paladin is considered strong overall, providing good group control and utility throughout dungeons.

Vengeance Demon Hunter is also praised for its utility and defensive capabilities.

While Pro Warrior can excel in dungeons with mechanics that can be reflected, it falls behind in terms of overall group contribution compared to Prot Paladin and Vengeance Demon Hunter.

Conclusion

The speakers suggest using Pro Warrior as a pocket pick when facing encounters where reflect abilities are highly valuable.

However, if someone wants to play only one tank throughout the season, they recommend choosing either Prot Paladin or Vengeance Demon Hunter due to their stronger overall performance and group utility.

The transcript provided is in English, so the notes are also written in English.

Comparison of Holy Paladin and Protection Paladin

The discussion revolves around the performance of Holy Paladin and Protection Paladin in different seasons. Initially, Holy Paladin was not considered strong, but with the 0.5 patch, Protection Paladin received buffs.

Performance of Protection Paladin

In some dungeons, Protection Paladin could be ranked as number one due to its high tankiness compared to other tanks.

However, it may not perform as well as a Warrior in higher key levels where survivability becomes crucial.

Testing and Balancing

Proper testing is required to determine the true potential of both tanks.

PTR keys were not properly scaled or balanced, so more high-level key runs are needed for accurate comparisons.

Comparison of Vengeance Demon Hunter and Protection Paladin

The conversation shifts towards comparing Vengeance Demon Hunter and Protection Paladin in terms of overall effectiveness.

Overall View

In an overall general view, it is agreed that Protection Paladin is better than a Protection Warrior.

Vengeance Demon Hunter is considered a stronger tank due to its tankiness and ease of play for the group.

Tier List Discussion on Tank Trinkets

The focus now turns to discussing tank trinkets and their importance in raiding. A tier list is mentioned as a way to help players decide which trinkets they should aim for.

Powerful Trinket - Che's Shrunken Wristguards

Che's Shrunken Wristguards are considered extremely powerful and highly desirable for all tanks in any raid scenario.

Other Recommended Trinkets

Cataclysmic Brand was previously popular among most tanks but has been nerfed recently.

Currently, a trifecta of trinkets is favored: Cataclysmic Brand, Anima Field Emitter, and Tainted Rageheart.

Twisted Blades may be preferred by Brewmasters but is not commonly used by other tanks.

Tank Trinkets vs. DPS Players

The discussion touches on whether tanks should prioritize tank trinkets over DPS players in raid scenarios.

It is generally agreed that tanks should focus on their survivability rather than sacrificing it for more damage output.

Discussion on Signet Brand and SAR Cloak

The conversation delves into the impact of Signet Brand and SAR Cloak trinkets on tank survivability.

Signet Brand

Signet Brand inflicts significant damage to the tank but also provides damage reduction.

Some tanks may consider using Signet Brand due to the high amount of damage taken from this trinket.

Prioritizing Survivability

The importance of prioritizing survivability as a tank is emphasized.

While some tanks may prefer certain trinkets for specific reasons, overall survivability remains crucial.

Trinkets and their relevance

The discussion revolves around the relevance of trinkets in the game, particularly in terms of where they can be obtained and how they impact gameplay.

Relevance of trinkets

Trinkets are important items in the game that provide various benefits to players.

Obtaining certain trinkets may require a significant amount of time or effort.

The impact of trinkets on gameplay depends on factors such as the role of the player (e.g., tank, DPS), the type of trinket, and the content being played (e.g., raiding, Mythic+ dungeons).

Damage trinkets for tanks

Some damage trinkets have a negative effect on tanks, causing damage back to themselves.

The amount of damage varies based on factors like stacks and average hit.

In raiding scenarios, these damage hits can potentially push a DPS player over their limit.

Usage in raiding vs. Mythic+

Damage trinkets are generally more suitable for raiding due to specific boss mechanics.

In Mythic+ dungeons, where overall damage matters less than boss damage, using these trinkets is rare.

Strengths of certain trinkets

Trinkets like Signet Brand and Ory's Sunheart are considered strong options for raiding.

Their effectiveness may vary depending on the tank class being played.

FX-Tuned Obfuscation Device

This particular trinket is highly regarded for both raiding and Mythic+ dungeons.

It provides a good balance between damage output and survivability.

Recent changes have nerfed its damage component but it remains solid due to its absorb effect.

Rarity and availability

FX-Tuned Obfuscation Device is a rare drop from last bosses, making it difficult to obtain.

Its rarity contributes to its perceived strength and desirability.

Other trinket options

R.A.N.D.O.M.I.Z.E.R's Energizing Elixir is a decent DPS trinket for tanks in Mythic+ dungeons.

Emerald Friendship Bracelet provides stats and is a viable option for both raiding and Mythic+.

Pips' Pipings can be considered as an okay option for Mythic+ but not recommended for raiding.

Alternative trinkets

The discussion shifts towards alternative trinkets that are easier to obtain or provide different benefits compared to the previously mentioned ones.

R.A.N.D.O.M.I.Z.E.R's Energizing Elixir

This trinket is a good option for DPS players in Mythic+ dungeons.

It is relatively easy to obtain and provides solid damage output.

Ran's Gleaming Eye

Ran's Gleaming Eye is a decent DPS trinket but only available for strength-based tanks.

It can be obtained easily and serves as a viable option for raiding.

Considering other options

In addition to specific trinkets, players may opt for stat sticks or other alternatives based on their preferences.

The choice of trinkets depends on the desired balance between damage output and survivability.

Conclusion

The transcript discusses the relevance of various trinkets in the game, particularly in terms of their impact on gameplay. It highlights specific trinkets like Signet Brand, Ory's Sunheart, and FX-Tuned Obfuscation Device as strong options for raiding. Additionally, alternative options such as R.A.N.D.O.M.I.Z.E.R's Energizing Elixir and Ran's Gleaming Eye are mentioned. The availability, benefits, and suitability of these trinkets for different scenarios are discussed.

Trinket Discussion

The discussion revolves around trinkets for tanks and their preferences.

Trinket Options

Infinite Tusk is considered decent, but there are concerns about its drop rate between packs.

Eggshell is suggested as a better option.

Tanks prefer stat sticks over proc trinkets for consistency.

There is no clear option for a static stat trinket this season, except for one Mastery trinket that may have Baseline stats.

Bosun's Crab Trinket

Bosun's Crab trinket provides Mastery and avoidance on melee attacks, making it a viable option.

It is considered decent and easy to obtain.

Some tanks used it in Mythic+ dungeons with good results.

Crafted Trinkets

Crafted trinkets like the Embellishment of the Iwen's Sanctum can be useful when equipped with sockets.

The crafted trinkets offer different stats depending on the player's choice.

Embellishments Discussion

The discussion focuses on embellishments for tanks and their effectiveness.

Plate Legs with Haste Proc

Plate legs that provide a haste proc are recommended for tanking in Mythic+ dungeons.

Shadowflame Patch Chestpiece

Some players still suggest using the Shadowflame Patch chestpiece for raiding, but others prefer versatility or other options due to nerfs.

Lurker's Insidious Gift (Lar)

Opinions vary on the usefulness of Lurker's Insidious Gift (Lar), especially without best-in-slot gear or sockets.

Conclusion

The transcript covers discussions about various trinkets and embellishments for tanks. It highlights preferences for consistent stat sticks over proc trinkets and suggests specific options for different scenarios. The importance of sockets and gear choices is also mentioned.

The Impact of Embellishments

In this section, the speaker discusses the impact and effectiveness of embellishments in the game. They mention that while there are multiple options available, some embellishments may not feel as impactful or satisfying to use.

The Effectiveness of Damage Embellishments

The speaker expresses their opinion that damage-focused embellishments tend to be more effective and desirable compared to other types.

They mention that playing with specific damage-enhancing embellishments can still be viable, even if they have been nerfed.

Crafting and Item Optimization

The speaker acknowledges that due to recent nerfs, many items have been significantly weakened.

They state that crafting the best possible item is still important but note that even if a crafted item is slightly worse, it may not have a significant negative impact on gameplay.

Uncertainty Surrounding Embellishments

The speaker feels uncertain about the overall value and impact of embellishments in the game.

They mention that Blizzard seemed unsure about how to balance and handle embellishments, often resorting to nerfing them rather than buffing others.

It is suggested that Blizzard may have had a vision for crafting and embellishments but struggled with its execution.

Potential Options and Helm Nerfs

This section focuses on potential options for players regarding embellishment choices. The speaker also mentions a specific helmet item that was initially powerful but got nerfed.

Exploring Different Options

The speaker suggests that there are numerous potential options for players when it comes to choosing their embellishments.

They emphasize the importance of considering individual gear and tier levels when making these choices.

Nerfs to Powerful Helm Item

The speaker recalls a particularly strong helmet item in the game which eventually received a nerf.

They express confusion and disappointment with Blizzard's handling of embellishments, as they often nerfed items that were performing well.

Potential Wild Card Picks for Mythic Plus

In this section, the speaker discusses potential "wild card" picks for Mythic Plus dungeons, focusing on overpowered classes or legendaries.

Potential Picks

The speaker suggests that Protection Warrior is a strong contender as a wild card pick due to its similarities to No Faran Layer in terms of viability.

They also mention Death Knight (DK) as a possible option but express uncertainty about its effectiveness.

Two-Handed Strength Classes

The speaker theorizes that two-handed strength classes currently underperform in the game.

They humorously suggest that this may be intentional, as players are being prepared for an upcoming overpowered legendary item.

Vengeance Demon Hunter Dominance and Meta Discussion

This section focuses on the dominance of Vengeance Demon Hunter tanks in Mythic Plus dungeons and the overall meta discussion surrounding tank choices.

Vengeance Demon Hunter Dominance

The speaker believes that Vengeance Demon Hunters are overwhelmingly strong compared to other tank classes.

They express doubt about the viability of Protection Paladin in high-level Mythic Plus dungeons due to defensive struggles.

Prop Warrior and Meta Considerations

The speaker mentions that Protection Warrior could be viable in certain gear setups if abilities like Reflect become more powerful.

They recall an example where Reflect was crucial for timing a specific key level up during competitive play.

Holy Paladin Dependency and Possibilities without It

This section explores the dependency on Holy Paladins and whether it is possible to complete high-level Mythic Plus dungeons without them.

Dependency on Holy Paladin

The speaker acknowledges the common belief that having a Holy Paladin in the group is crucial due to their strong healing abilities.

They mention the potential need for Divine Aegis (D.A.) or similar abilities to deal with challenging bosses.

Possibilities without Holy Paladin

The speaker expresses skepticism about the necessity of Holy Paladins, stating that players can find alternative strategies and survive without them.

They draw parallels to previous seasons where Survival Hunters were initially considered weak but players found ways to succeed with them.

Mark of the Wild and Its Value

This section focuses on the value of Mark of the Wild and whether it is essential for group composition in Mythic Plus dungeons.

Value of Mark of the Wild

The speaker mentions that Mark of the Wild brings significant value to a group composition.

They agree with another participant's opinion that if a group desires Mark of the Wild, they should prioritize having a Balance Druid (Boomkin) in their lineup.

Season One Team Composition

In this section, the speakers discuss the team composition they played in season one of the game. They mention playing as Boomkin, Enhancement Shaman, Dragon Flight, Shadow Priest, and Fire Mage.

Team Composition in Season One

The team composition consisted of Boomkin, Enhancement Shaman, Dragon Flight, Shadow Priest, and Fire Mage.

They clarify that they did not play Rogue.

The group also played with a Shadow Priest and a Shad priest fire Mage.

They emphasize the strength of playing with triple casters.

Class Performance Comparison

In this section, the speakers discuss their experiences with different classes and how certain specs may perform better than others.

Class Performance Comparison

The speakers share their experiences playing different specs in season one.

They mention that while their damage as a Red Paladin was not bad compared to other specs like Mage, it still felt significantly weaker due to factors like Arcane Intellect and Evocation.

They highlight the power and strength of playing triple caster compositions.

Creating the Worst Possible Group Composition

In this section, the speakers engage in a discussion about creating the worst possible group composition consisting of tanks, DPS classes, and healers.

Creating the Worst Group Composition

The speakers are challenged to create the worst possible group composition consisting of tanks, DPS classes, and healers.

One suggestion for a terrible group composition includes Guardian Druid tanking with Resto Shaman healing. For DPS classes, they suggest Shadow Priest along with Survival Hunter or Destruction Warlock.

Another suggestion includes Windwalker Monk instead of Survival Hunter.

It is emphasized that having no utility or synergy between the classes is a key factor in creating the worst group composition.

Discussion on Survival Hunter

In this section, the speakers discuss the viability of Survival Hunter and its performance compared to other specs.

Viability of Survival Hunter

The speakers discuss the performance of Survival Hunter and mention that it can be quite good in terms of damage output.

They mention that some players, like Gingi, have achieved impressive results with Survival Hunter.

There is some debate about whether Feral Druid or Survival Hunter will be better in certain situations.

Overall, they agree that Windwalker Monk is a stronger choice compared to Survival Hunter.

Importance of Utility in Group Composition

In this section, the speakers emphasize the importance of utility and synergy within a group composition.

Importance of Utility

The speakers discuss how even if certain specs are considered weak individually, having utility and synergy within a group composition can make them viable.

They highlight examples such as Destruction Warlock having solid utility as a tank.

However, they also acknowledge that some classes like Warriors may not bring much utility to a group composition.

Q&A Session

In this section, the speakers open up for questions from chat and address various topics related to class balance and gameplay.

Q&A Session

The speakers invite questions from chat regarding any topics they may have missed or meme questions.

One question raised is about the value of Sigil of Chains. The speakers express differing opinions on its usefulness and trade-offs with other talents.

They mention that personal preference and playstyle can influence one's perception of Sigil of Chains' value.

Timestamps provided are approximate and may vary slightly.

The Value of Controlling Mobs in Dungeons

The speaker discusses the importance of controlling mobs in dungeons and how it can make it easier for a group to deal damage. They mention that the value of mob control depends on the specific dungeon being run.

Importance of Mob Control

Controlling mobs makes it easier for the group to do damage.

The value of mob control varies depending on the dungeon.

In dungeons with small pulls and fewer spread-out mobs, like Dawn of Infinite, there may not be much usage for mob control.

However, in dungeons like Black Rook Hold with archers and scouts, grip sigil has great value in stopping them and making difficult pulls significantly easier.

Dungeon Difficulty and Talent Choices

The speaker discusses how certain talents can have infinite value if they make a hard pull significantly easier. They also talk about their plans to push for rank one raid score with Asmongold.

Talent Choices and Dungeon Difficulty

Certain talents can save time on specific pulls or make hard pulls significantly easier.

The value of talents depends on the dungeon being run.

Planning to push for rank one raid score with Asmongold or at least go for a title push.

Rating Dungeon Difficulties

The speaker asks their chat to rate each dungeon's difficulty. They discuss their own opinions on some dungeons being easy due to experience while others are still challenging because the group hasn't figured out all the mechanics yet.

Dungeon Difficulty Ratings

Some dungeons are considered easy due to experience, such as Atal'Dazar being face roll because it's an old dungeon.

Other dungeons like De Other Side feel difficult because the group hasn't figured out all the mechanics yet.

The speaker mentions that their opinion on dungeon difficulty is based on their current experience and may change as they learn more.

Dungeon Difficulty for Tanks

The speaker discusses the difficulty of dungeons specifically for tanks. They mention that Throne of the Tides might be the hardest dungeon for tanks.

Dungeon Difficulty for Tanks

The speaker believes that Throne of the Tides will be the hardest dungeon for tanks.

They mention that certain dungeons like Waycrest Manor have challenging bosses, such as Tree Boss, which was buffed significantly.

Other difficult dungeons mentioned include Buru'n off Tides, Everbloom (specifically the middle two bosses), and Upper De Other Side.

Lower De Other Side is considered not too bad by comparison.

Healer Predictions and Spec Discussions

The speakers discuss healer predictions and share their opinions on different healing specs. They express frustration with some specs being underpowered while others are more common but not necessarily strong.

Healer Predictions and Spec Discussions

Some healers are considered cringe or not standing out in terms of power.

The absence of Vengeance healers is noted, while Guardian Druid healers are mentioned as being strong but not commonly played.

Resto Shaman is described as beyond dark horse, implying it's underrated or underestimated in terms of its potential effectiveness.

Misweaver Monk is discussed, with uncertainty about its viability due to needing high damage and healing output to compete with other specs.

Adjusting to Different Healing Specs

The speakers discuss adjusting to playing different healing specs and how it can take time to get used to a new spec, especially if it's different from what a healer is used to.

Adjusting to Different Healing Specs

It may take time for healers to adjust to playing a different healing spec.

The example of switching from Discipline Priest to Mistweaver Monk is mentioned as potentially requiring a significant adjustment period.

The speaker mentions hearing that Mistweaver Monk is easy but expresses uncertainty about its tankiness and overall performance.

Miscellaneous Discussions

The speakers engage in miscellaneous discussions about healer predictions, dungeon difficulties, and the perception of certain specs.

Miscellaneous Discussions

Some healers are considered underpowered or not popular choices.

Holy Paladin is mentioned as an exception due to recent changes making it strong.

Resto Shaman is described as being underrated or underestimated in terms of its effectiveness.

The difficulty of dungeons for melee healers is discussed, with the example of Halls of Atonement being challenging due to tankiness issues.

Understanding the Importance of Tankiness and Disease/Poison Spells in Melee

The speaker discusses the importance of being tanky in melee combat and the need for healers to have disease and poison spells.

Importance of Survivability in Melee Combat

Being in melee requires a tanky baseline to survive.

Tankiness helps to withstand unexpected situations or mistakes without getting one-shot.

Need for Disease and Poison Spells

Healers should have disease and poison spells to deal with various diseases and poisons encountered in dungeons.

Examples include the disease on W Lord and Lady Waycrest.

Paladins, monks, and evokers have both poison and disease spells.

Weekly +20 Key Dungeon for Season

The speaker discusses their thoughts on which dungeon will be the weekly +20 key dungeon for the season.

Speculations on Weekly +20 Key Dungeon

Atal'Dazar is considered a strong contender due to its difficulty level.

Black Rook Hold is also mentioned as a potential candidate, although it is perceived as relatively easier than Atal'Dazar.

Execution-heavy mechanics in Atal'Dazar, such as dealing with Jugger Nar charging, fires, zombies, and important kicks, make it challenging.

Vol'zith the Whisperer boss fight may pose difficulties for some groups.

Black Rook Hold has some challenging mobs that require good AoE stops, including scouts, archers, and important kicks.

Changes in Dungeon Counts

The speaker discusses changes made to dungeon counts and shares experiences from previous runs.

Changes Made to Dungeon Counts

Some dungeons have had their counts changed but specific details are not provided.

Personal Experiences with Dungeon Counts

The speaker mentions missing count twice in the same tournament.

Another player had a similar experience during a run in Mount.

The Everbloom dungeon was attempted with count on the fly but encountered issues when mobs didn't snap.

It is acknowledged that missing count can happen due to various factors and may not always be the player's fault.

Possibility of Playing Havoc and Vengeance Together

The speaker addresses whether Havoc and Vengeance can be played together in the same group.

Possibility of Playing Havoc and Vengeance Together

It is possible to play both Havoc and Vengeance in the same group, but overlapping utility should be avoided.

Overlapping utility diminishes the effectiveness of having both classes in the group.

Choosing a Class and Spec for Mythic Plus

The discussion revolves around choosing the right class and specialization for Mythic Plus dungeons, considering the current balance of classes and specs.

Meta Spec Considerations

Havoc Demon Hunter is currently considered overpowered and likely to be nerfed in the future.

It is generally preferred to play a spec that is strong but not at the top, as those tend to get nerfed.

Enhancement Shaman, Balance Druid, Mage, and Rogue are mentioned as solid options that are performing well.

Warlocks are also mentioned as potentially viable but may require further investigation.

Concerns about Playing Havoc Demon Hunter

Due to its current strength and popularity, there is a risk of Havoc Demon Hunter getting nerfed.

Some players express hesitation about playing an overpowered spec that might receive adjustments.

The preference is to avoid being associated with the most broken spec in order to have more stability in the long run.

Potential Meta Composition

Vengeance Demon Hunter is suggested as a strong tank choice for Mythic Plus dungeons.

For DPS slots, Boomkin (Balance Druid) and Mage are recommended due to their versatility and damage output.

Holy Paladin is proposed as a potential healer option despite some negative opinions about their viability. Other healers could also be considered depending on specific circumstances.

Melee Composition Possibilities

A melee composition consisting of Retribution Paladin or Warrior with Enhancement Shaman, Rogue, or Feral Druid is discussed.

This composition could provide good utility and burst damage for cleave-focused strategies in certain dungeons.

Reducing Utility Trade-offs

Reducing utility trade-offs by having multiple interrupts/silences can help overcome challenges in certain situations.

Coordinating external cooldowns and defensive abilities can compensate for any lack of kicks in a composition.

Consideration for Legendary Effects

The impact of legendary effects on class and spec choices is mentioned as a factor to consider.

The potential introduction of new legendaries or changes to existing ones could influence the meta and class viability.

Red Paladin's Utility and Melee Composition Possibilities

The discussion focuses on the utility of Retribution Paladins in Mythic Plus dungeons and explores different melee composition possibilities.

Retribution Paladin Utility

Retribution Paladins are considered to have decent utility, comparable to Holy Paladins but with less healing capability.

While not as strong as Holy Paladins, their utility can still be valuable in Mythic Plus dungeons.

Melee Composition with Retribution Paladin

A suggested melee composition includes Retribution Paladin, Enhancement Shaman, Rogue, and Feral Druid.

This composition offers good utility, burst damage, and cleave potential for efficient dungeon clears.

Potential Strengths of the Suggested Composition

The suggested composition allows for fast-paced dungeon runs by quickly clearing trash packs through cleave damage.

It is noted that this composition may not work well in dungeons with large pulls but can excel in situations where quick progress is desired.

Considering Other Factors

The impact of legendary effects on class and spec choices is mentioned as a factor to consider.

Further evaluation of specific dungeon mechanics and affixes should be taken into account when finalizing a melee composition.

Understanding Paladin Abilities

The discussion focuses on the effectiveness of the Divine Storm ability and its stacking capabilities. The conversation also touches upon other potential specs for Paladins, such as Arms Warrior and Frost Death Knight.

Evaluating Divine Storm

Divine Storm stacks up quickly and is still better for AoE damage compared to other abilities.

It may be more efficient to use Divine Storm for primary damage, even though it does not cleave properly.

Other Potential Specs

Arms Warrior is suggested as an alternative spec with a legendary effect that could provide strong two-handed weapon damage.

Frost Death Knight (Frosty K) is mentioned as another possible spec with two-ended weapon attacks.

Copium and R Paladin Discussion

The conversation revolves around the perception of Retribution Paladins (R Paladins) and the concept of "copium." There is also mention of potential buffs to Unholy Death Knights.

Copium and R Paladin Perception

Viewers are asked to press one if they believe there is excessive talk about R Paladins being strong.

The term "copium" refers to a sense of denial or overconfidence in the strength of a class or spec.

There seems to be disagreement among viewers regarding the perceived strength of R Paladins.

Buffs for Unholy Death Knights

Speculation arises about potential buffs for Unholy Death Knights due to their lower ranking in simulations.

If these buffs occur, Unholy DKs could become powerful in Mythic+ dungeons, especially in MDI situations.

Exploring Alternative Specs

The discussion continues on alternative specs, including Holy DK and Fury Crafter. The focus shifts towards expectations for the upcoming race.

Alternative Specs and Holy DK

Arms Warrior is considered a potential alternative spec with two-handed weapon damage.

The conversation briefly touches on the possibility of playing Unholy DK as well.

Holy DK is mentioned as a class that might receive buffs, potentially making it strong in the race.

Expectations for the Race

The participants express optimism about their performance in the upcoming race.

While victory is desired, they anticipate performing significantly better than in previous races.

The length of the race is uncertain, but it is expected to last longer than previous tiers.

Final Thoughts and Well Wishes

The conversation concludes with final remarks about the race and personal matters.

Final Remarks and Race Duration

The discussion ends with well wishes for each other's success in the race.

It is anticipated that this tier will last longer than previous ones, potentially extending beyond the weekly reset.

Timestamps are approximate and may not be entirely accurate.