What If Rhaegar Targaryen KILLED Robert Baratheon? | Game of Thrones

What If Robert Baratheon Died at the Battle of the Trident?

The Impact of Robert's Death

• The discussion begins with the pivotal moment in Robert's Rebellion, specifically the Battle of the Trident, where Robert defeats Rhaegar Targaryen. Speculation arises about how events would unfold if Robert had died instead.

• The narrative suggests that during this hypothetical battle, a prank by Ned Stark causes Robert's Warhammer to malfunction, leading to his downfall against Rhaegar.

Rhaegar and Lyanna: Relationship Dynamics

• A key focus is on Rhaegar Targaryen’s relationship with Lyanna Stark. Questions are raised about whether he kidnapped her or if they were genuinely in love despite his marriage.

• The speaker expresses skepticism towards the show’s portrayal of their relationship, leaning towards the idea that Lyanna was not kidnapped but rather shared mutual feelings with Rhaegar.

• It is suggested that Rhaegar’s motivations may stem from prophecy obsession rather than mere personal desire, hinting at deeper character complexities.

Prophecy and Character Motivations

• Discussion revolves around Rhaegar's motivations being altruistic and tied to prophecies like "The Song of Ice and Fire," indicating a higher calling driving his actions.

• There is speculation about whether Rhaegar actively worked to fulfill these prophecies or if they simply unfolded as part of fate.

Circumstances Surrounding Robert's Death

• If Robert were to die at the Trident, it should be due to foul play rather than being bested in combat; an accident or distraction could lead to his demise without undermining his warrior reputation.

• The speaker emphasizes that they do not want it portrayed as a fair fight where Rhaegar outmatches Robert; instead, it should feel like an unfortunate event influenced by external factors.

Final Moments and Legacy

• Imagining Robert’s last moments includes humorous elements where he might embarrass himself before death—suggesting a blend of tragedy and comedy in his final scene.

• There's a playful depiction of how even in death, Robert would maintain some bravado by attempting to insult Rhaegar amidst chaos—a reflection on his character traits throughout the series.

Discussion on Rhaegar and Ned's Relationship

Rhaegar's Intentions and Communication

• The conversation begins with speculation about the character Bobs, who seems to have a connection with Bessie, while also discussing Ned's relationship with Rhaegar. There's uncertainty about whether Ned survives the conflict.

• Questions arise regarding Rhaegar's communication during the war; specifically, why he didn't clarify his relationship with Lyanna to Robert Baratheon before tensions escalated.

• The discussion suggests that even if Robert was unwilling to listen, there were other avenues for Rhaegar to communicate his intentions or truths about Lyanna.

Misunderstandings and Conflict

• A humorous take is presented on how misunderstandings could have been resolved if Rhaegar had simply invited Ned to see the truth at the Tower of Joy.

• The conversation shifts towards naming conventions related to significant events in the story, such as renaming locations after battles or key moments.

Political Dynamics and Alliances

• It’s suggested that Rhaegar did not wish for mass casualties stemming from this conflict; rather, he aimed for unity among factions in Westeros.

• Discussion highlights Rhaegar’s strategic thinking regarding alliances, particularly concerning his father and potential support from lords like Tywin Lannister.

Potential Outcomes of Confrontation

• There’s an exploration of whether Rhaegar would want to harm Ned Stark given their familial ties through Lyanna; maintaining unity is emphasized as crucial for both characters.

• Speculation continues on how a direct confrontation between Ned and Rhaegar might unfold if they met under different circumstances.

Final Thoughts on Power Dynamics

• The dialogue reflects on how power dynamics play out in Westeros, especially considering how different characters react under pressure compared to others like Robert Baratheon.

• The idea that if confronted by Rhaegar alone, Ned might be more open to understanding rather than immediately resorting to violence is discussed.

Rhaegar's Strategy and the Lannisters' Role

Rhaegar's Negotiation with Tywin

• The discussion revolves around Rhaegar needing to negotiate with Tywin Lannister, as Tywin may prefer to remain neutral rather than support the Mad King.

• A potential strategy for Rhaegar could involve freeing Jaime Lannister from his vows, which might persuade Tywin to align with him.

• The idea of a "Chad Alliance" is introduced, highlighting the potential strength of a King's Guard featuring prominent knights like Jaime and Barristan Selmy.

Implications of Lannister Involvement

• Questions arise about whether the Lannisters are essential in the upcoming conflict; if they remain uninvolved, it could shift allegiances significantly.

• If Ned Stark makes peace with Rhaegar after Robert Baratheon's death, many rebel factions might rally behind Rhaegar instead.

Other Factions in Play

• Balon Greyjoy is mentioned as potentially being one of the last rebellious figures left if other factions choose not to engage.

• The conversation shifts to Mace Tyrell's activities in the Stormlands and how his actions could impact broader conflicts.

Stannis Baratheon's Position

• Stannis is currently at Storm's End; there’s speculation on whether he would bend the knee upon hearing about Robert’s death or continue fighting.

• The dynamics between Stannis and Robert are explored, emphasizing that Stannis follows Robert out of duty rather than loyalty.

Aftermath Considerations

• Discussion includes what happens post-Robert’s death; will Stannis yield or resist?

Rhaegar's Strategy: A Coup or a War Hero?

Rhaegar's Image Post-Rebellion

• The discussion revolves around Rhaegar Targaryen potentially emerging from the rebellion as a war hero, likened to "The Ultimate Fighter" who has defeated a formidable enemy.

• Speculation arises about the Mad King's reaction to Rhaegar's actions, suggesting he might resort to extreme measures like using wildfire against his enemies.

Consequences for Stannis and Political Maneuvering

• There's an expectation that Stannis Baratheon would be treated harshly by the Mad King, possibly executed due to his opposition.

• Rhaegar is aware of the dangers in King's Landing and understands that key figures like Varys are not on his side, complicating his plans.

Assassination vs. Open Conflict

• The conversation shifts to how Rhaegar might approach taking down the Mad King; suggestions include stealthy tactics rather than direct confrontation.

• Concerns are raised about the implications of being labeled a kin-slayer if Rhaegar were to assassinate his father.

Alliances and Public Perception

• The importance of public support is emphasized; Rhaegar could leverage evidence of the Mad King's brutality (e.g., Stark family tragedies) to justify action against him.

• There’s a belief that any underhanded move would be seen as dishonorable, which could tarnish Rhaegar’s reputation.

Priorities: Jon Snow and Legacy

• Questions arise regarding whether Ned Stark accompanies Rhaegar or if he prioritizes being present for Jon Snow's birth.

• It is suggested that stabilizing Westeros may take precedence over claiming the Iron Throne for Rhaegar, with Jon Snow representing hope for future generations.

Naming Jon Snow: Speculations and Theories

• Discussion includes theories about what Jon Snow’s true name might be; speculation leans towards it not being Aegon due to existing heirs.

Discussion on Rhaegar Targaryen's Legacy and the Iron Throne

The Nature of Aegon's Identity

• The conversation begins with speculation about Rhaegar Targaryen's children, particularly focusing on Aegon and a potential variant of him.

• There's uncertainty regarding whether Aegon resembles Rhaegar, leading to humorous suggestions about alternative names for characters.

Strategies for Seizing Power

• Discussion shifts to how Rhaegar might take the throne, emphasizing a need for honorable actions rather than deceitful tactics.

• The idea is presented that Rhaegar could leverage alliances against the Mad King instead of direct confrontation.

Varys' Influence and Political Maneuvering

• Varys is mentioned as a key player who may not support Rhaegar due to his own schemes involving another character named Fagon.

• There’s debate over whether Fagon is truly Rhaegar's son or if he exists at all, highlighting the complexity of lineage in this narrative.

Perceptions of Usurpation

• It’s argued that Rhaegar must eliminate the Mad King in a way that avoids labeling him as a usurper, contrasting with Robert Baratheon's actions.

• The discussion touches on public perception and historical narratives surrounding figures like Jaime Lannister, known as the Kingslayer.

Cultural Context and Legitimacy Issues

• The conversation reflects on Dorne's cultural acceptance of bastards and how it might affect perceptions of legitimacy concerning Rhaegar’s heirs.

Discussion on Leadership and Legacy in Westeros

The Nature of Leadership

• The character discussed is not inherently suited to be a king, reflecting the idea that true leaders often do not desire leadership. This character's legitimacy as a "bastard" complicates his role.

• It is suggested that this character's primary purpose is to combat the Long Night rather than rule, indicating that alliances may be more beneficial for stability in the realm.

• Aegon is identified as the heir, while Jon Snow's potential role involves training with notable figures, hinting at a mentorship dynamic within the narrative.

Jon Snow’s Role and Identity

• There are discussions about Jon Snow potentially becoming a member of the Kingsguard, which has historical precedent in Westerosi lore.

• The narrative explores how Jon’s position as a member of the Kingsguard could parallel his previous isolation in the Night's Watch, suggesting an evolution in his identity amidst other elite members.

Character Dynamics and Relationships

• Speculation arises about Jon looking up to Jaime Lannister as an older brother figure, creating an interesting dynamic where Jaime becomes a mentor instead of an adversary.

• Questions are raised regarding Tywin Lannister’s strategies concerning Jaime and whether he would regain control over him or leverage him for political gain.

Political Maneuvering and Alliances

• The discussion shifts to Tywin potentially becoming Hand of the King under Rhaegar Targaryen, emphasizing Tywin's strategic importance in stabilizing the realm.

• A scenario is proposed where Tywin offers Jaime back to secure his influence and resources for Rhaegar’s claim to power against the Mad King.

Potential Outcomes and Future Implications

• If Tywin successfully orchestrates Rhaegar’s rise to power by usurping the Mad King, it could solidify his position as Hand of the King; otherwise, alternative candidates like Ned Stark might emerge.

Discussion on Tywin Lannister's Influence

The Role of Tywin in the Kingdom

• The speaker discusses how Tywin Lannister was crucial in maintaining the stability and competence of the kingdom during the reign of the Mad King.

• There is speculation about Tyrion's role under Tywin, suggesting that his character may not have significant importance if Tywin is present as a strong leader.

Cersei's Marital Prospects

• The conversation shifts to Cersei needing to marry for political reasons, possibly to Edmure Tully, to solidify alliances within the realm.

• A hypothetical scenario is presented where Ned Stark does not marry Catelyn Tully, which could change various dynamics in Westeros.

Ned Stark's Family Dynamics

• The speaker reflects on how Ned’s marriage to Catelyn affects family relations, particularly regarding Jon Snow and Catelyn’s attitude towards him.

• There's commentary on Catelyn’s constant complaints about her situation at Winterfell and her perceived ingratitude towards Ned.

Stannis Baratheon and Davos Seaworth

Stannis' Leadership

• It is suggested that Stannis remains Lord of Storm's End without facing death or major challenges, although he experiences hardship due to starvation.

Davos' Role

• Discussion includes whether Davos can achieve lordship or remain "Davos the Smuggler," indicating limited opportunities for advancement without significant actions.

Littlefinger's Ambitions

Littlefinger's Positioning

• Littlefinger is described as an agent of chaos who relies on connections with Lysa Arryn but faces challenges in gaining power after John Arryn’s absence.

Potential Paths for Power

• Without John Arryn as Hand of the King, Littlefinger must find alternative routes to influence King's Landing, leading to speculation about his future actions.

Varys and Blackfire Conspiracy

Varys' Loyalty Dilemma

• If Varys remains loyal to the Mad King, it raises questions about his trustworthiness and potential roles within King's Landing amidst shifting allegiances.

Young Griff vs. Fagon Debate

Blackfire Rebellion and the Fate of Dragon Eggs

Discussion on Varys's Character and Dragon Eggs

• The speaker speculates about the potential for a Blackfire Rebellion, indicating uncertainty about its outcome in the narrative.

• Questions arise regarding the legitimacy of claiming the Iron Throne if Young Griff (the Blackfire Pretender) arrives with fully hatched dragons, suggesting that his Targaryen lineage would lend him credibility.

• The idea is presented that possessing dragons could overshadow other claimants to the throne, despite concerns over their uncontrolled power.

Narrative Significance of Dragons

• The discussion shifts to how dragon eggs might hatch as a pivotal plot point, emphasizing their importance in an alternate telling of "A Song of Ice and Fire."

• The return of dragons is framed as essential to the story's progression, with references to historical events like the Dance of Dragons influencing current narratives.

• Speculation continues on whether Young Griff will successfully hatch dragon eggs, highlighting George R. R. Martin's tendency to subvert expectations while still acknowledging dragons' narrative significance.

Balon Greyjoy's Decisions

• A humorous commentary on Balon Greyjoy’s poor decision-making during Robert’s Rebellion suggests he may attempt rebellion again despite low chances for success.

• The speaker reflects on Balon's motivations for rebellion being less justified compared to previous conflicts, hinting at a lack of support from other kingdoms.

Potential Marriages Among Targaryens

• Discussion turns towards Rhaegar Targaryen’s siblings and their potential marriages; it is suggested they could marry each other or other lords due to familial traditions.

• There are implications that marrying within family lines remains acceptable among Targaryens despite societal norms against it.

Daenerys's Role and Relationships

• Daenerys is characterized as potentially less capable due to her sheltered upbringing in civilized society, raising questions about her agency in future plots.

Dynamic Relationships in Game of Thrones

Daenerys and Jaime's Potential Interactions

• The speaker speculates on the dynamics between Daenerys and Jaime, suggesting that Daenerys could remain at Dragonstone while Jaime continues his character arc.

• There is a humorous suggestion that Jaime might still be involved with Cersei, hinting at their complicated relationship.

• The possibility of Jaime having no illegitimate children is raised, reflecting on his character development and choices.

• A playful notion is introduced where Jaime may refuse to engage with Cersei due to his fixation on someone who resembles him, emphasizing themes of self-love and identity.