Webinar: Prof John Lennox - Evolution - A theory in crisis?

Introduction

Dr. Peter Saunders introduces the webinar and Professor John Lennox, who will be discussing the topic of evolution from a Christian perspective.

Professor John Lennox's Background

• Professor John Lennox is a professor of mathematics at Oxford University and a fellow in mathematics and philosophy of science at Green Temple College Oxford.

• He is particularly interested in the interface of science, philosophy, and theology.

• His books include "Against the Flow," "Gunning for God," "Stephen Hawking and God: A Response to The Grand Design," "God's Undertaker Has Science Buried God?," "Where Is God in a Coronavirus World?," and "2084."

• He has also written another book more recently which is the subject of today's discussion - Cosmic Chemistry.

Evolution Theory & Crisis

Dr. Peter Saunders discusses with Professor John Lennox about the impact of evolution theory on Christian belief, especially in Europe.

Impact of Evolution Theory on Christian Belief

• Before the theory of evolution came along, most people living in Europe were theists who believed in God.

• The theory offered an alternative explanation for biological diversity that did not require God, making atheism intellectually respectable.

• It has been one of the number one reasons for believing in God as people say we don't need God anymore since we have this explanation based on natural processes studied by Natural Sciences.

Importance of Discussing Evolution Intelligently

• The impact of evolution theory has been very deep particularly in Europe.

• Christians need to be able to talk about evolution intelligently because it is still regarded by many as ruling out faith and belief in God.

Conclusion

Dr. Peter Saunders concludes the webinar and thanks Professor John Lennox for his time.

Final Thoughts

• The discussion was centered on evolution theory and its impact on Christian belief.

• Professor John Lennox provided insights into how Christians can talk about evolution intelligently.

• Dr. Peter Saunders thanked Professor John Lennox for his time.

Christians and Evolution

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of Christians being able to talk about evolution, especially those in scientific fields. He also highlights the different views held by Bible-believing Christians on evolution.

Different Views on Evolution

• There are three main camps among Bible-believing Christians in the UK regarding evolution: young Earth six-day creationists, old Earth theistic evolutionists, and old Earthers who are special creationists.

• The speaker asks whether we should promote one of these views or lay bare the shortfalls of evolutionary theory to show that believing in a Creator God is still a plausible position.

• The speaker stresses that we need to distinguish between primary and secondary issues when discussing evolution. The fact of Creation is vastly more important than when or how it happened.

• We need to be intellectually humble and try to distinguish what is reasonably evident fact from our deductions.

Is Atheism Deduced from Evolution?

• The speaker argues that deducing atheism from evolutionary biology depends on two propositions: whether it is philosophically legitimate to deduce atheism from biology and whether Neil Darwinian Evolution actually bears all the weight that people put on it.

• There is a substantial logical gap between Darwinism and atheism, which Dawkins seems to prefer to bridge by rhetoric rather than evidence.

• To the extent that guided biological evolution has occurred, it is certainly compatible with theism because God is behind it. However, we need to ask if it has occurred and if it bears all the weight put on it.

Chemical Evolution and Biological Evolution

In this section, the speaker distinguishes between chemical evolution and biological evolution. He explains that natural selection cannot account for the existence of life because it is a biological phenomenon that depends on life existing in the first place.

Earth's Early Atmosphere

• Geochemists think that the Earth's early atmosphere did not contain the quantities of ammonia and methane and hydrogen needed to produce the kind of atmosphere required by Oberyn's hypothesis.

Probability of Getting Amino Acid Building Blocks

• The problem is not so much getting amino acid building blocks, although that theory does not produce them. The problem is getting them in the right kind of order.

• Proteins are composed of amino acids, and a short protein maybe has a hundred most of them are about 300, and they exist in two forms: L and D forms that are mirror images. These two forms appear in equal numbers in a Prebiotic simulation so that the probability of getting one or other is a half.

• The great majority of proteins contain only the left form, which means that the probability of getting a hundred L-form amino acids is one chance in 10 to the 30th power.

Joining Amino Acids Together

• To join amino acids together into proteins demands bonds called peptide bonds to be of a certain kind to ensure that protein folds into the right structure in three dimensions.

• Only half the bonds in simulations are peptides, so again, we face minuscule probabilities with just getting these bonds right. The probability of getting a hundred like that is one chance in 10 to the 30th power.

• Before even discussing the ordering of amino acids, the probabilities are very much against getting this by Prebiotic simulations.

Origin of Informational Structure of Protein

• Proteins are immensely specialized intricate constructions of long chains of amino acids in a specific linear order and particular configuration. A major problem for scientists to explain is the origin of the informational structure of protein.

• The DNA molecule consists of roughly 3.4 billion chemical letters in a specific order that determines the sequence of amino acids they have to be lined up in precisely that hugely long and hugely complex sequence, which is the problem that has to be addressed.

• Making a protein by simply injecting energy is like exploding a stick of dynamite under a pile of bricks and expecting it to form a house. Making a house requires information so that builders can follow it and put the bricks into the right place, which is trivial compared with getting amino acids in the right places in this chain.

The Probability Against the Spontaneous Formation of Life

This section discusses the probability against the spontaneous formation of life.

The Odds Against Producing Proteins by Chance

• Sir Fred Hoyle calculated that the odds against producing hundreds of thousands of proteins by chance is more than one in ten to the forty thousand.

• This calculation led him to compare the probability against spontaneous formation of life to a tornado sweeping through a junkyard and producing a Boeing 747.

The Probability Against Creating a Universe with a Second Law of Thermodynamics

• Sir Roger Penrose, an atheist mathematician, calculated that the probability against creating a universe like ours with a second law of thermodynamics is around 1 in 10 to the 30.

• This number is so large that if you put one and then zeros on every elementary particle in the universe, you couldn't even write out this number.

• John Lennox argues that there must be something else going on here and suggests that it's evidence for an input of intelligence because information and intelligence are associated intimately.

The Chicken or Egg Question: Which Came First?

This section discusses how DNA holds the recipe for protein construction but cannot be retrieved or copied without assistance from proteins already in the cell.

Problem Explaining How Proteins and DNA Both Came to Exist

• Robert Shapiro points out that replication of DNA cannot proceed without prior existence of other proteins already in the cell.

• Large molecules such as proteins are chemically very different from DNA, so it's unclear which molecule appeared first - proteins (the chicken) or DNA (the egg).

• It's becoming increasingly clear that it's not just DNA or proteins but rather, it's about the total cell.

Reductionism vs Systems Biology

• Professor Dennis Noble critiques reductionism and argues that genes by themselves are dead.

• At least a hundred different proteins are involved in the process of reading the genome and without them, the genome would express nothing.

• The very structure and relationship between DNA and the cell rules out natural unguided processes.

• Marcus A. Berli, a Christian biologist, calls this chicken-and-egg circumstance causal circularity found all over living systems and points out that there's no way out of circularity without introducing the foresight of a mind.

Systems Biology

This section discusses how systems biology challenges reductionism.

Critique of Reductionism

• Professor Dennis Noble critiques reductionism that permeates this whole system which is the idea that everything basically reduces to physics and chemistry.

• He argues that even at the very beginning of a new organism's life, more is happening than is dreamed off in the reductionist bottom-up model.

• The question remains whether everything is bottom-up or top-down.

Importance of Total Cell

• It's becoming increasingly clear that it's not just DNA or proteins but rather, it's about the total cell.

• At least a hundred different proteins are involved in the process of reading the genome and without them, the genome would express nothing.

Circular Causality

• Marcus A. Berli calls this chicken-and-egg circumstance causal circularity found all over living systems.

• There's no way out of circularity without introducing foresight of a mind.

The Origin of Life

This section discusses the origin of life and how it is a mystery that scientists have not been able to solve.

The Mystery of Life's Origin

• Scientists do not know how life originated on Earth.

• Francis Crick, who unraveled the DNA molecule, once said that the origin of life seems almost like a miracle.

• Top scientists, such as Francis Collins, have openly admitted that they do not know how life originated on Earth.

• The laws of physics are not a good candidate for explaining life's origin because they contain much less information than what is required for even the smallest living organism.

• Professor James Tour believes that based on what we know about chemistry, life should not exist anywhere in the universe.

Information and Life

• Information plays a crucial role in living systems and its function within biology has led some to question materialism as a philosophy.

• Paul Davis and Sarah Walker argue that an explanation of life's origin is fundamentally incomplete without an account of how information emerged in living systems.

• Explaining the chemical substrate of life does not fully explain its origin because it only explains half of the job - the hardware aspect. The software aspect (the genetic code), which carries information, also needs to be explained.

The Gulf Between Non-Living and Living Worlds

This section discusses Michael Denton's view on the gulf between non-living and living worlds.

Micro-Miniaturized Factory

• Michael Denton believes that the gulf between non-living and living worlds represents the most dramatic and fundamental of all discontinuities in nature.

• Even the tiniest bacterial cell is a micro-miniaturized factory containing thousands of exquisitely designed pieces of intricate molecular machinery made up altogether of a hundred thousand million atoms, far more complicated than any machine built by man.

• Scientists have not found evidence that the first cells arose spontaneously as a result of random physical processes.

The Complexity of Living Cells

In this section, the speaker discusses the complexity of living cells and how it relates to language.

The Language-Like Structure of DNA

• Each human cell performs millions of operations per second.

• Random processes do not produce language-like structures in DNA.

• The basic design of cells is the same across all living systems.

• There is no experimental evidence for an evolutionary sequence among diverse cells on Earth.

Specified Complexity and Language

• Living cells are complex, but the difference between them and non-living things is that they exhibit specified complexity linked with language.

• Whenever we see language, we infer intelligence behind it.

• Even a simple logo like "icmda" with a cross symbol shows intelligence behind it.

Lack of Evidence for Sequential Change Among Cells

In this section, the speaker discusses the lack of evidence for sequential change among cells in all living beings.

Fossil Record and Evolutionary Transitions

• Darwin predicted that the fossil record would vindicate his theory by showing transitional forms among extinct species.

• Paleontologists have found fewer examples of evolutionary transition than expected.

• Leading thinkers express concerns about the lack of support from the fossil record for Neo-Darwinism.

The Limits of Evolution

In this section, the speaker discusses the mechanisms of evolution and the skepticism surrounding macroevolution.

Mechanisms of Evolution

• Biological complexity and variation in nature are a result of genetic mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.

• Microevolution is widely accepted as evidence for evolution, but there is skepticism about macroevolution's ability to produce new body plans and structures.

• Natural selection has no innovative capacity; it eliminates or maintains what exists. It does not explain innovation or the creative power behind it.

Evidence Against Macroevolution

• Biologists are increasingly skeptical about macroevolution's ability to produce new body plans and structures.

• The DNA record does not support the slow accumulation of random gradual changes transmitted by restricted patterns of vertical descent. Instead, clear evidence exists for abrupt events.

• Alfred Russell Wallace believed that there were limits to what could be accomplished by observed mechanisms even though they knew nothing about gene drift or mutation at the time.

• There is no theoretical reason to expect evolutionary lines to increase in complexity with time. Experimental evidence also indicates that there are measurable limits to what microevolution can do.

Overall, this section discusses how natural selection cannot explain innovation or the creative power behind it. Additionally, biologists are increasingly skeptical about macroevolution's ability to produce new body plans and structures.

Limits of Microevolution

In this section, the speakers discuss whether there are limits to what the mechanisms of microevolution can achieve.

Limits of Microevolution

• The example of E. coli shows that changes happen within very narrow limits.

• Research on malaria supports the thesis that there are limits to what microevolution can achieve.

• Monkeys typing randomly and eventually producing Shakespeare's sonnets or books is absurd and impossible according to mathematicians like Fred Hoyle.

• Richard Dawkins' argument about monkeys typing randomly has been criticized by mathematicians like John Lennox who argue that it involves intelligent design from the beginning.

Mathematics of Evolution

In this section, the speakers discuss the mathematics behind evolution and criticize Richard Dawkins' argument about monkeys typing randomly.

Mathematics of Evolution

• Even with unlimited time and resources, it is impossible for monkeys typing randomly to produce Shakespeare's works.

• Dawkins' argument involves intelligent design from the beginning, which he claims evolution does not have.

• The idea that evolution involves random elements but is not purely random has gained more acceptance among scientists than pure chance as a mechanism for evolution.

Systems Biology

In this section, the speakers discuss systems biology and Nobel Laureate Barbara McClintock's work on gene modification.

Systems Biology

• Chapter 19 of John Lennox's book outlines some exciting developments in systems biology.

• Nobel Laureate Barbara McClintock demonstrated that an organism could modify its own genes, which was a groundbreaking discovery in the field of genetics.

Barbara McClintock's Discovery and the Third Way of Evolution

This section discusses Barbara McClintock's discovery of jumping genes, her persecution by the scientific establishment, and how her work has been built upon to create the Third Way of Evolution.

Jumping Genes and Persecution

• In 1953, Barbara McClintock discovered that segments of a plant's chromosomes could switch places on the genome. This is now called the jumping gene.

• Her discovery alarmed the Darwinist world so much that she was persecuted by the scientific establishment and had to stop working.

• However, in 1983 she was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physiology for her discovery of mobile genetic elements.

The Third Way of Evolution

• Peter Saunders and my Juan Ho published a paper in 1979 stating that neo-Darwinian theory based on natural selection and random mutation does not adequately account for evolution.

• Dennis Noble built on their work to further elucidate the epigenetic dimension beyond just the structure of DNA.

• This led to the founding of what is called the Third Way of Evolution which challenges traditional neo-Darwinism.

• The DNA record does not support small random mutations as being the main source of new and useful variations. Many different processes involve well-regulated cell action on DNA molecules.

• In 2016, this work was recognized with a special meeting organized by The Royal Society for 300 scientists titled "New Trends in Evolutionary Biology: Biological, Philosophical, and Social Science Perspectives."

DNA as a Passive Database

This section discusses how DNA is not the sole determinant of an organism and how it is better described as a passive database.

DNA as a Passive Database

• DNA on its own does absolutely nothing until it's activated by the rest of the system through transcription factors, markers, interactions with protein.

• DNA does not contain a blueprint for building the entire cell but instead contains only small parts of a much larger biological algorithm that may roughly be described as the epigenetic components of an organism.

• The human genome has roughly 30,000 genes. It's almost absurd to think that the genome completely determines the organism. The genome is like a huge pipe organ with 30,000 pipes. The composer writes the score and the organist interprets it. Similarly, multi-cellular organisms use the same genome to generate all their different types of cells in their bodies by activating different expression patterns.

In The Beginning Was The Bit

This section concludes that all development in biology confirms that this is a word-based world and introduces Hans Christian from Bayer's phrase "In The Beginning Was The Bit."

Word-Based World

• All development in biology confirms that this is a word-based world.

• Hans Christian from Bayer coined the phrase "In The Beginning Was The Bit."

Theological and Scientific Evolutionism

John Lennox discusses the concept of atheistic evolutionism and how it makes more sense scientifically and theologically.

Logos as Intelligence

• Lennox refers to John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

• He explains that one of the best translations of logos is "an intelligence expressing itself."

• Saint Paul's statement in Romans 1 is mentioned where he says that since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities have been clearly seen through what has been made.

Epigenetics and Creation

• Lennox mentions epigenetics as a fascinating topic related to creation.

• He also talks about how recent scientific discoveries make far more sense now scientifically than standard atheistic evolutionism.

Conclusion

• The interviewer thanks Lennox for his time and wisdom.