The Money Expert: From $0 to Millions In 2 Years Without Any Hard Work!: Codie Sanchez | E258

Financial Freedom and the Language of Money

The discussion delves into the reasons behind people not achieving financial freedom, emphasizing the importance of understanding the language of money for success.

Why Financial Freedom is Elusive

• Only one in 10 people dies wealthy due to a lack of understanding the language of money.

• Familial influences often prioritize safety and security over taking risks for financial growth.

• Personal fears and societal pressures can hinder individuals from pursuing entrepreneurial paths.

Sharing Secrets to Financial Success

Insights are shared on achieving financial success by leveraging expertise and understanding money matters.

Secrets to Success

• Sharing secrets to making money after years on Wall Street.

• Expertise leads to financial gains.

Taking Ownership: From Renters to Owners

Encouraging a shift from being renters or surfs to becoming owners, reclaiming control over one's life and finances.

Ownership Transformation

• Advocating for individuals to take ownership of their lives rather than being passive participants.

• Identifying three personas: dissatisfied workers, aging individuals seeking new paths, and those misled by unrealistic financial promises.

Personal Journey Towards Financial Independence

Reflecting on personal experiences transitioning from corporate roles to entrepreneurship for financial independence.

Personal Transition

• Relating as a "work in John" persona dissatisfied with corporate constraints.

Starting a Business and Overcoming Fear

In this section, the speaker discusses the psychological barriers individuals face when starting a business and delves into personal experiences related to overcoming fear and familial influences.

Overcoming Psychological Barriers

• Individuals often struggle with fear when contemplating starting a business or pursuing a side hustle.

• The speaker reflects on personal experiences of being held back by fear and false narratives, emphasizing the importance of taking risks for real growth.

Familial Influences and Fear

• Family members may unintentionally hinder personal growth by prioritizing safety over individual aspirations.

• Despite being supportive, loved ones can inadvertently instill doubt and caution, impacting one's willingness to take risks for personal development.

Transitioning from Corporate to Entrepreneurship

This segment explores the speaker's transition from corporate employment to entrepreneurship through buying businesses, driven by challenges faced in the corporate world.

Making Unconventional Decisions

• The decision to purchase businesses while employed was triggered by conflicts at work and a realization of diverging values with superiors.

• Disagreements with management led to the recognition that conforming to others' rules stifled potential success, prompting the pursuit of independent ventures.

Embracing Uncertainty

• Anticipating an inevitable departure from corporate constraints, the speaker began acquiring businesses as a means of securing autonomy.

• Transitioning from employee to entrepreneur involved embracing uncertainty and venturing into unknown territories for personal fulfillment.

Venturing into Entrepreneurship: First Business Acquisition

This part focuses on the speaker's initial steps into entrepreneurship through purchasing their first business, highlighting key considerations and insights gained during this pivotal moment.

Taking the First Step

• Acquiring the first business required stepping out of comfort zones into uncertainty, emphasizing courage in initiating entrepreneurial endeavors.

Buying Small Businesses: A Gateway to Wealth

In this section, the speaker discusses his journey of buying small businesses as a pathway to wealth creation. He shares insights on starting with smaller deals, such as a laundromat, and gradually scaling up in the business world.

Starting Small with Laundromats

• The speaker's initial approach was to start with a laundromat deal due to its manageable size and low operational requirements.

• Initially lacking a framework for small deals, he leveraged personal connections to find opportunities, highlighting the importance of minimizing risks in early ventures.

• Collaborating with someone experienced in running laundromats enabled him to bridge knowledge gaps and focus on deal-making rather than operational intricacies.

Overcoming Misconceptions about Small Business Deals

• The speaker emphasizes that many small business owners are open to selling after years of operation, contrary to common misconceptions about profitable businesses being unsellable.

• Addressing skepticism around purchasing seemingly low-profit businesses, he highlights the abundance of unsold small businesses in the market due to owners' lack of exit strategies.

Key Factors in Acquiring Small Businesses

This segment delves into essential considerations when acquiring small businesses, emphasizing the transformative potential of these ventures and debunking myths surrounding their viability for aspiring entrepreneurs.

Transformative Potential of Small Businesses

• Viewing small businesses as "gateway drug businesses," the speaker underscores how engaging in deals reshapes one's perspective and opens doors for future opportunities.

• Encouraging listeners to recognize the prevalence of business sales around them, he highlights the prospect of acquiring and scaling multiple enterprises akin to established industry giants.

Importance of Deal-Making Skills over Industry Expertise

• Contrary to popular belief, deep industry knowledge is not a prerequisite for buying small businesses; instead, proficiency in deal structuring and financial analysis plays a pivotal role.

How to Buy Businesses with Little to No Money

The discussion revolves around the concept of buying businesses with minimal capital investment, focusing on structuring deals and the art of persuasion in business acquisitions.

Understanding Business Acquisition Strategies

• Buying businesses for minimal amounts, even as low as zero dollars, is feasible through strategic deal structuring.

• Deals can be structured based on performance payments or seller financing, common in small business acquisitions below $10 million revenue.

• Small businesses often sell with seller financing at 2 to 5 times profit due to limited buyers in the market.

Key Aspects of Deal Making

• Structuring deals involves offering seller financing, deferred tax burdens, and profit-sharing arrangements over a period.

• Emphasizes the importance of understanding deal structures akin to real estate transactions before digital platforms' prevalence.

The Art of Persuasion in Business Acquisitions

• Success in deal-making lies in knowing how to construct win-win deals that benefit both parties involved.

• Unlike stock trading, buying and selling small businesses offer opportunities for mutually beneficial agreements without winners or losers.

The Role of Salesmanship in Business Acquisitions

Delving into the significance of sales skills and persuasion techniques when approaching potential sellers for business acquisitions.

Importance of Sales Skills

• Salesmanship is about identifying predisposed individuals interested in what you offer rather than convincing skeptics.

• Effective sales involve understanding sellers' motivations by asking probing questions and aligning solutions with their needs.

Building Trust Through Curiosity

• Curiosity towards others' motivations is crucial for identifying motivated sellers seeking new ventures or retirement plans.

New Section

In this section, the discussion revolves around convincing a seller to sell their business and how a young individual can take steps towards entrepreneurship.

Convincing a Seller and Entrepreneurial Steps

• The importance of convincing a seller why they should sell their business to you is highlighted, emphasizing setting up both parties for success through curiosity.

• A scenario is presented where a 25-year-old with some disposable income expresses interest in acquiring businesses, enquiring about revenue figures.

• Advice is given on taking the first steps into entrepreneurship, focusing on leveraging existing skills and resources rather than diving into unfamiliar industries.

• Tailored advice is provided based on the individual's profession, suggesting not to invest in businesses that are difficult to comprehend initially.

• Emphasis is placed on utilizing one's unique strengths or "unfair advantage" when venturing into entrepreneurship, steering clear of conventional business choices.

New Section

This segment delves into identifying opportunities within one's current expenditure and transforming expenses into assets for entrepreneurial endeavors.

Leveraging Current Expenditure for Business Opportunities

• Encouragement is given to analyze personal spending habits to identify potential areas for investment or partnership within familiar industries.

• Anecdotal evidence is shared regarding converting expenses related to video production into profitable ventures by leveraging connections and negotiating deals effectively.

• A strategic approach involving forming partnerships based on mutual benefits and revenue-sharing agreements is proposed as an effective way for young entrepreneurs to enter the market.

New Section

This part focuses on practical strategies for approaching potential business collaborations and negotiations with established entities.

Approaching Business Collaborations Strategically

• Practical advice is offered on initiating partnerships with established businesses by providing value through client referrals or mutually beneficial arrangements.

• Examples are shared regarding structuring deals with studios through sweat equity or revenue-sharing models tailored to benefit both parties involved.

• The significance of understanding the financial impact of one's contribution to a partner's business before proposing collaboration terms is emphasized.

New Section

This section explores building relationships with business owners and positioning oneself as a valuable asset or successor in potential acquisition scenarios.

Building Relationships and Positioning for Acquisition

• Strategies are discussed for establishing rapport with business owners, including understanding their operations, long-term goals, and succession plans.

• Approaches for expressing interest in acquiring businesses through apprenticeship opportunities or future profit-sharing agreements are outlined as alternative paths towards ownership succession.

Financial Psychology and Beliefs

In this section, the speaker discusses how individuals often follow in the footsteps of their parents when it comes to financial decisions. The internet provides an opportunity to choose a different path and shape one's relationship with money.

Humans' Relationship with Money

• The speaker recounts an event where women were asked to visualize money and embody the feeling associated with it. Most participants displayed negative emotions like shame and guilt towards money.

• Many successful women in the room reacted with shame and guilt towards money, highlighting deep-rooted emotional attachments people have towards finances.

• People often hold negative stories about money, affecting their beliefs and actions. Changing these narratives is crucial for financial empowerment.

Financial Freedom and Beliefs

• Achieving financial freedom is not just about knowing what to do but also believing that one can do it. The speaker emphasizes the importance of changing people's beliefs about money.

• Despite economic prosperity, many individuals still struggle financially due to deep-seated psychological factors influencing their relationship with money.

Psychology of Spending Behavior

This segment delves into the emotional aspects of spending behavior, illustrating how personal beliefs impact financial decisions.

Emotional Attachment to Money

• The speaker shares personal experiences of reckless spending when lacking funds, attributing it to psychological factors like seeking self-worth through material possessions.

• With increased wealth, the speaker's perspective on money shifted from extravagance to preservation, highlighting contrasting behaviors based on one's financial status.

Modern Perspectives on Wealth

• Society promotes get-rich-quick schemes, contrasting traditional slow wealth-building methods. Quick gains appeal due to immediacy but may not lead to sustainable financial growth.

• Observations from South Africa suggest that individuals in challenging circumstances prioritize short-term pleasures over long-term goals due to a lack of belief in escaping their current reality.

Plate the PlayStation

In this section, the speaker discusses the significance of material possessions like a PlayStation beyond their tangible value, delving into how they can be tied to self-worth and success.

The Symbolism of Possessions

• The PlayStation symbolizes more than just a gaming console; it represents self-worth and success.

Impact of Money on Self-Worth

• Lack of money in the past caused shame, leading to overcompensation through purchases to showcase success.

Belief and Success

Here, the focus shifts to beliefs around success, financial struggles in college, and the influence of surrounding successful individuals.

Belief in Success

• Surrounding oneself with successful individuals can shift perspectives and reduce the desire for unnecessary purchases driven by external influences.

Wealth Display and Values

This part explores the speaker's perspective on flaunting wealth, emphasizing investment in assets over materialistic displays.

Wealth Representation

• Critique on showcasing wealth through luxury items like cars or private planes instead of investments that generate long-term returns.

Influence and Social Media

Discusses how negative influences impact energy levels and how social media shapes desires based on displayed luxuries.

Influence of Social Media

• Consumption of content leads to mimicking desires portrayed online rather than focusing on sustainable investments.

The Importance of Sharing Business Deals

In this section, the conversation delves into the significance of celebrities sharing details about their business deals rather than just focusing on their wealth and success.

The Value of Discussing Business Deals

• Reese Witherspoon's approach to leveraging her platform for authors to promote their books showcases a strategic business move that led to significant success.

• Emphasizes the importance of negotiating future rights when making deals, as seen in Reese's strategy of securing movie rights while promoting books.

• Highlights the contrast between public narratives and behind-the-scenes deal-making, suggesting that sharing these stories could offer valuable insights for others.

• Raises the question of whether celebrity success stems from personal acumen or guidance from skilled advisors in making lucrative deals.

• Acknowledges the intelligence and awareness of successful individuals like Reese Witherspoon, indicating that they are well-informed about their business strategies.

Transparency in Business Success Stories

This segment explores the idea of transparency in sharing business successes and how it can inspire and educate others.

Encouraging Transparency

• Advocates for sharing business secrets and strategies to inspire others, despite concerns about authenticity and maintaining a certain image.

• Suggests a more authentic approach to discussing successful deals without compromising future opportunities by involving stakeholders in the success through equity participation.

• Proposes a model where successful individuals involve supporters in their ventures through equity offerings at lower valuations, akin to venture capital or crowdfunding approaches.

• Explores potential downsides of transparently sharing business successes amidst societal attitudes towards wealth accumulation but underscores its potential to enrich more individuals financially.

Empowering Aspiring Entrepreneurs

This part focuses on empowering individuals striving for financial freedom by encouraging unconventional thinking and goal-setting strategies.

Empowerment Strategies

• Shares an anecdote about a cab driver seeking financial independence, highlighting the aspirations of individuals working multiple jobs to improve their circumstances.

Financial Freedom and Taking Risks

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of taking risks for achieving financial freedom and personal growth.

The Impetus for Financial Freedom

• Taking smart risks can be the impetus for achieving financial freedom.

• People often hesitate to take necessary risks due to fear, leading to missed opportunities for growth.

Embracing Change and Self-Belief

• Encourages individuals to believe in their capabilities and seek out opportunities that can create an unfair advantage.

• Suggests aligning with successful individuals who can mentor and guide towards financial rewards.

Gaining Insights and Uncovering Opportunities

This part delves into the significance of gaining insights, being relentless, and seeking mentorship for success.

Seeing Behind the Curtain

• Being relentless in pursuit of goals can lead to extraordinary accomplishments.

• Analogizes life to rooms behind a curtain, symbolizing hidden opportunities waiting to be discovered.

Understanding Wealth Building Strategies

• Reveals how wealthy individuals engage in money games rather than traditional work methods for wealth accumulation.

• Emphasizes the value of seeking information from knowledgeable individuals to uncover new pathways to success.

Mindset Shift Towards Success

Focuses on mindset shifts, learning from successful individuals, and embracing opportunities for growth.

Pursuing Information and Learning

• Advocates for seeking knowledge by shadowing successful individuals even through menial tasks.

• Highlights the importance of recognizing gaps in one's knowledge as a key aspect of personal development.

Unlocking Potential Through Observation

• Encourages viewing successful people as inspirations rather than sources of envy, unlocking one's potential for growth.

Luxury Travel Insights

In this section, the speaker shares insights gained from a conversation with a billionaire during a flight, focusing on success ingredients, generational differences in entrepreneurship, and the essence of true success.

Billionaire's Success Ingredients

• The key ingredient to success, according to the billionaire, is time management. He emphasizes the significance of focusing on one thing for an extended period to witness compounding effects over time.

Generational Differences in Entrepreneurship

• Contrasting entrepreneurs today with those from previous generations, the speaker highlights how earlier entrepreneurs were pioneers exploring uncharted business territories akin to privateers seeking new lands for kings and queens.

True Success and Health

• Drawing parallels between past and present generations, the speaker notes that modern individuals may lack physical resilience and adventurous spirit compared to their predecessors. True success is seen as a balance between mental strength, financial stability, and physical well-being.

Insights into Billionaires' Traits

This segment delves into common characteristics observed among billionaires, emphasizing their mission-driven nature and willingness to navigate through extreme challenges for long-term gains.

Mission-Driven Approach

• Most billionaires exhibit a profound commitment to missions that overshadow the inherent struggles of wealth accumulation. Their pursuits involve enduring significant highs and lows along their entrepreneurial journeys.

Rare Combination of Traits

• Contrary to stereotypes, billionaires are depicted as individuals willing to assist others who demonstrate hunger coupled with action-taking capabilities. The rarity lies in individuals who not only desire success but also actively pursue it through challenging endeavors.

Decision-Making Insights

This part explores decision-making dynamics based on an anecdote involving an employee's financial choices and implications for attaining high levels of success.

Decision-Making Criteria

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses the mindset of billionaires and the importance of thinking long-term in relationships and investments.

Billionaires' Long-Term Thinking

• The speaker emphasizes the significance of playing a long-term game with long-term individuals, as advocated by Naval Ravikant.

• A billionaire's invitation to collaborate is viewed as an investment in the potential growth of the individual over two to five years.

• By associating with someone early on, a billionaire can leverage that relationship when the individual achieves significant success in the future.

• Billionaires often think three to five years ahead, considering potential opportunities akin to call options for future collaborations.

Understanding Human Interactions

This part delves into how successful individuals perceive and engage with others, particularly focusing on initial interactions and value exchange.

Perceptions of Success

• The speaker reflects on how successful people were willing to support them even at a young age without fully understanding why.

• Initial interactions through direct messages (DMs) reveal much about individuals; those who provide immediate value stand out.

• Contrasting responses to requests for assistance highlight the importance of offering value upfront without expecting immediate returns.

Effective Communication Strategies

This segment explores effective communication approaches when reaching out for opportunities or mentorship.

Value-Based Outreach

• Individuals who proactively offer value without seeking anything in return often receive job opportunities and mentorship.

• Responses to DM inquiries serve as indicators of an individual's approach and potential for meaningful connections.

How to Stand Out and Connect with Influential People

In this section, the speaker discusses strategies for standing out and connecting with influential individuals by demonstrating care, conducting research, and targeting the right people.

Prioritizing Care and Acknowledgment

• Demonstrating understanding of the recipient's busy schedule can make a significant impact.

• "Ask for as little as possible and give whatever you can."

• Showing genuine care through personalized efforts like tailored gifts or gestures can be highly effective.

• Researching the person extensively showcases care and consideration.

Targeting the Right Individuals

• Focusing on individuals with wealth rather than fame can lead to more meaningful connections.

• Targeting affluent but less recognized individuals can yield better results.

• Learning from those closest in proximity and level before aiming for higher levels of success is emphasized.

• Connecting with individuals who have achieved success through continuous effort provides valuable learning opportunities.

The Importance of Content Creation for Access and Influence

This section delves into the significance of content creation in gaining access, building relationships, and influencing others positively.

Unfair Access Through Content Creation

• Creating content offers a pathway to establishing connections with influential figures.

• Content creation provides unfair access to influential circles by showcasing unique perspectives.

• Leveraging content to attract wealthy individuals can lead to valuable mentorship opportunities.

• Building relationships through content creation facilitates access to successful individuals for mentorship.

Discussion on Content Creation and Networking

In this segment, the speaker discusses the philosophy of being a magnet rather than a door-to-door salesperson in various aspects of life, emphasizing the power of content creation over traditional outbound sales strategies.

Content Creation Philosophy

• Content creation serves as a powerful strategy for growth across all facets of life.

• The speaker's companies have thrived without outbound sales teams by focusing on creating valuable content.

Networking through Content

• Emphasizes that content itself is networking, highlighting the efficiency and sustainability of this approach compared to traditional networking methods.

• Contrasts the effectiveness of content creation (net) versus traditional sales approaches (fishing rod), showcasing the scalability and reach of quality content.

Finding Your Audience

• Discusses how creating content helps in finding like-minded individuals who support your journey, emphasizing the importance of connecting with those who genuinely want you to succeed.

Achieving Balance in Life

The discussion revolves around the speaker's addiction to achieving, the challenges of slowing down, and the impact of starting a new path later in life.

Addiction to Achieving

• The speaker admits being addicted to achieving but expresses a desire to slow down at times.

• Starting on a new path at 30 led to less experience shedding identity compared to starting at 18.

Identity Pivot Challenges

• People in their 40s or 50s may feel trapped by their established identities and social circles.

• Personal growth often requires significant changes like divorce, job quitting, and relocation.

Navigating Divorce and Personal Growth

The conversation delves into the speaker's decision for divorce, personal happiness post-divorce, and reflections on changing oneself for a relationship.

Decision for Divorce

• Despite being happier post-divorce, leaving a partner behind is described as a challenging and somber experience.

• Misaligned life goals led to the decision for divorce as one partner sought stability while the other craved global experiences and professional success.

Post-Divorce Reflection

• Changing oneself for a relationship is questioned, emphasizing the importance of not trying to alter one's essence for another person.

• Recognizing unhappiness in a situation is crucial even if justifying it away temporarily.

Embracing Change and Finding Freedom

Insights are shared on embracing change, overcoming challenges post-divorce, and finding freedom through personal growth.

Embracing Change

• "Exit tax" symbolizes the cost of transitioning towards freedom through significant changes.

• Creating a safe space post-divorce aids in personal reinvention and serves as an essential step towards healing.

Finding Freedom

• Having a personal sanctuary facilitates emotional recovery after major life transitions like divorce.

Calendar and Goal Setting

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of using a calendar for setting deadlines and working backward from them to achieve goals effectively.

Importance of Deadlines and Calendar

• The speaker emphasizes the significance of having deadlines, mentioning how it helps in working backward to achieve goals more efficiently.

• Short-term goals are highlighted as crucial for success, with daily, weekly, monthly, and annual targets being essential for progress.

• The concept of reevaluating long-term goals over time is discussed, emphasizing the importance of aligning aspirations with personal desires rather than societal expectations.

Equity and Ownership in Business

This part delves into the distinction between equity, ownership in a business, and the importance of providing every team member with a stake in the company.

Equity Distribution and Ownership

• The speaker differentiates between equity, ownership in a business, and skin in the game for team members to foster commitment.

• Every individual within the speaker's team receives skin in the game to incentivize performance and engagement through shared ownership opportunities.

Encouraging Entrepreneurship

Encouraging entrepreneurship among team members by offering support for their ventures while maintaining a culture of growth within the organization is discussed.

Supporting Entrepreneurial Ventures

• The speaker expresses willingness to support high performers who wish to start their own businesses by providing testimonials or investment opportunities.

• Not all individuals aspire to run businesses; some prefer ownership roles. Providing ownership stakes motivates team members towards shared success.

Wealth Building Philosophy

The discussion shifts towards personal philosophies on wealth building, emphasizing earning potential over strict saving strategies.

Wealth Building Approach

• Contrary to popular advice on saving excessively, focusing on earning potential is deemed crucial for wealth accumulation.

Learning from Experience

In this segment, the speaker reflects on their experience at Vanguard and the importance of not being an underperformer as a CEO. They discuss the impact of underperformers on a team and the necessity of addressing performance issues.

Importance of Performance

• The speaker recalls their time at Vanguard, highlighting the frustration of observing underperforming colleagues.

• Emphasizes the need to push individuals to improve or find roles where they can excel.

• Discusses how B players tend to linger in companies while A players may leave if surrounded by lower performers.

Managing Team Dynamics

This part delves into the detrimental effects of retaining underperformers within a team and stresses the importance of maintaining high standards to foster a productive work environment.

Impact of Underperformance

• Compares underperformers in a company to cancer that needs to be removed before spreading.

• Highlights how keeping B players alongside high performers diminishes overall team effectiveness.

Challenges and Realities

The discussion shifts towards normalizing imperfections and failures among successful individuals, emphasizing that everyone faces challenges and setbacks on their journey.

Embracing Imperfection

• Acknowledges personal struggles with productivity and decision-making despite professional achievements.

• Stresses the importance of recognizing flaws and mistakes as part of being human, promoting empathy and understanding in professional settings.

Overcoming Fear

The speaker shares a personal anecdote about facing fear during a challenging mountain climb, highlighting vulnerability and resilience in adverse situations.

Confronting Fear

• Recounts a daunting experience climbing Mount Baker, showcasing discomfort with heights, cold, and uncertainty.

Climbing Mount Baker: A Journey of Self-Discovery

In this section, the speaker recounts a challenging experience while climbing Mount Baker, reflecting on personal motivations and societal pressures.

Reflections on Climbing Mount Baker

• The speaker expresses reluctance and emotional turmoil before attempting to climb an ice wall on Mount Baker.

• Internal dialogue reveals the conflict between societal expectations of toughness and personal contentment.

• The decision to prioritize personal well-being over external validation is highlighted through a choice not to summit.

• Realization dawns about pursuing goals aligned with personal desires rather than seeking approval from others.

The Importance of Authenticity in Business

This segment emphasizes the significance of authenticity and vulnerability in business endeavors, particularly for women entrepreneurs.

Embracing Authenticity in Business

• Acknowledgment of the speaker's unique approach that challenges conventional business narratives by glamorizing authenticity over superficial success.

• Recognition of the male-dominated entrepreneurship landscape and the necessity for diverse voices like the speaker's to offer alternative perspectives.

• Encouragement for individuals to embrace their authentic selves in business pursuits, fostering a more inclusive and empowering environment.

Personalized Health Journey with Zoe

The discussion shifts towards personalized health journeys using innovative technologies like Zoe for tailored dietary insights.

Navigating Personalized Health Insights

• Introduction to Zoe's home testing kit for assessing gut health, blood sugar levels, and dietary impacts on overall well-being.

• Personal testimonial regarding newfound awareness of food-related fatigue through real-time glucose monitoring provided by Zoe technology.

Code Here CEO Message

In this section, the speaker addresses the audience at the end of a podcast episode, expressing gratitude for listeners who have reached this point and potentially enjoyed the content.

Gratitude Towards Listeners

• The speaker expresses a sense of indebtedness to listeners who have completed the podcast, indicating that their dedication is appreciated.

• There is a request for feedback from those who have reached the end of the podcast, suggesting that their opinion is valuable.