DIRECTO | ZAPATERO NIEGA en el SENADO haber FACILITADO el RESCATE de PLUS ULTRA | RTVE

2 March Commission Session Overview of the Investigation

Introduction to the Session

• The session begins with a formal introduction by the chair, outlining the purpose of the investigation into contracts and alleged corruption related to Coldo García and others involved in the Orme operation.

• Approval of previous session minutes from February 9 and 25 is confirmed unanimously. The agenda is modified to include elections for committee positions and review of work plan modifications.

José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero's Testimony

• Former Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero appears before the commission as part of its investigative mandate, emphasizing his status as a private citizen without current public responsibilities.

• He highlights that he is not politically accountable to this commission due to his lack of recent public office, referencing Constitutional Court rulings on investigatory commissions.

Key Questions Regarding Plus Ultra Rescue

• A member questions Zapatero about his involvement in the rescue of Plus Ultra, directly asking if he facilitated it; he responds negatively, asserting no political responsibility in this matter.

• Zapatero clarifies that while he has not spoken with current government officials regarding Plus Ultra prior to or after its rescue, he acknowledges having casual conversations about general experiences with Pedro Sánchez.

Financial Involvement and Consulting Work

• The discussion shifts towards financial matters where Zapatero confirms earning approximately €70,000 annually as a consultant for Analysis Relevante but denies any wrongdoing or improper connections with Plus Ultra.

• He states that all earnings were reported correctly for tax purposes and emphasizes transparency regarding his consulting activities without managing any company operations directly.

Allegations and Denials

• Throughout questioning, Zapatero firmly denies allegations linking him to any corrupt practices or undue influence over government decisions related to Plus Ultra's funding or operations. He categorically refutes claims made by other individuals regarding meetings or pressures exerted on government officials concerning the airline's rescue efforts.

• He expresses frustration over false narratives surrounding his character and actions during this period, particularly those suggesting clandestine dealings or conspiracies involving law enforcement agencies.

Conclusion of Testimony

• As the session progresses towards conclusion, Zapatero reiterates his commitment to truthfulness while addressing accusations against him, maintaining that many claims are unfounded fabrications aimed at discrediting him personally and politically.

Discussion on Relationships and Influence in Venezuela

Key Relationships

• The speaker emphasizes their fundamental relationship with Delsy Rodríguez and Jorge Rodríguez, asserting that they had frequent communication prior to significant events.

• The speaker expresses gratitude for the opportunity to clarify their position regarding Venezuela, highlighting previous invocations in Senate and Congress sessions where they could not defend themselves.

Mediation Efforts

• The speaker details their mediation efforts in Venezuela from 2016 to 2019, involving 58 trips aimed at facilitating dialogue amidst conflict.

• They mention participating in negotiations held in various locations including Caracas and the Dominican Republic, focusing on electoral processes and prisoner releases.

Allegations of Misconduct

Prisoner Release Claims

• The speaker claims involvement in liberating hundreds of prisoners but faces skepticism regarding advice given about not making public denunciations.

Financial Allegations

• Questions arise about a supposed envelope containing evidence of illegal financing linked to the Socialist Party; the speaker categorically denies any involvement or knowledge of such matters.

• They dismiss allegations suggesting they facilitated financial transactions for political parties as "absolute nonsense."

Encounters with Controversial Figures

Meeting with Víctor de Aldama

• The speaker recounts a brief encounter with Víctor de Aldama during a flight arranged by the Venezuelan government, denying any ongoing relationship or influence over him.

Media Speculation

• They address media reports claiming meetings took place at specific locations, labeling these as falsehoods.

Reactions to Political Accusations

Comments from Iñaki Anasagasti

• The speaker responds to comments made by Iñaki Anasagasti regarding complications arising from political detentions, expressing surprise at such statements.

Hugo Carvajal's Testimony

• They reference past media claims linking them to illicit activities based on statements attributed to Hugo Carvajal, emphasizing that no substantial evidence supports these claims.

Personal Reflections and Public Perception

Acceptance of Criticism

• The speaker reflects on their life experiences positively despite facing accusations, indicating acceptance of public scrutiny as part of being involved in politics.

Letter from Hugo Carvajal

• A letter received from Carvajal is mentioned where he thanks the speaker for mediating a prisoner's release while denying any wrongdoing associated with them.

Addressing Financial Accusations

Alleged Financial Transactions

• The discussion shifts towards allegations concerning financial dealings related to a supposed "gold mine" claim made by Carvajal against the speaker.

Denial of Wrongdoing

• The speaker firmly denies all allegations related to financial misconduct or connections with individuals accused of corruption within Venezuelan politics.

Critique from Opposition Members

Accusations by Opposition

• Opposition member Gómez criticizes the role played by Zapatero in Venezuela, labeling it as detrimental and accusing him of operating under Maduro's regime.

Defense Against Claims

• In response, Zapatero insists that his actions were misrepresented and urges focus on relevant commission topics rather than personal attacks.

Professional Activities

Inquiry into Business Practices

• Questions arise about how Zapatero earns a living post-politics; he asserts his work has been pro bono focused on dialogue efforts without profit motives.

Clarification on Business Relations

• He clarifies relationships with business figures like Víctor de Aldama are exaggerated; he only met him briefly during an official trip.

Alleged Commissions Related to Globalia

Mediator Role Questioned

• There are inquiries about whether Zapatero acted as a mediator between Globalia and Venezuelan authorities regarding debt recovery; he maintains no commissions were agreed upon.

Response to Financial Claims

• He refutes claims linking him financially through alleged commissions tied to airline rescues or other business dealings involving Plus Ultra Airlines.

Political Accountability and Historical Context

Historical Comparisons

• The speaker draws parallels between current political accountability measures and the Francoist tribunals that judged supporters of the Republic, highlighting concerns about political persecution.

Critique of Political Practices

• The speaker criticizes the Partido Popular (PP) for not calling key figures to testify in a commission regarding corruption, suggesting a lack of transparency and accountability within their ranks.

Corruption Allegations

• There are accusations against various politicians related to corruption, with specific mention of laws being tailored for corrupt practices involving significant financial dealings. The speaker emphasizes the need for thorough investigations into these matters.

Frustration in Political Discourse

Senate Dynamics

• The speaker claims that the Senate has become a platform for expressing frustrations from the PP after losing elections, indicating a shift in its purpose towards partisan conflict rather than constructive governance.

Legislative Manipulation

• A reference is made to multiple reforms of Senate regulations by the PP to suit their needs, implying manipulation of democratic processes for political gain. This includes dismissing long-serving officials without justification.

Public Perception and Media Influence

Media Representation

• The speaker argues that previous public appearances by politicians during crises have often resulted in embarrassment for the PP, suggesting that media portrayal significantly impacts public perception and political credibility.

Comparison with International Standards

• Mention is made of international bodies like the Commission of Venice, where similar situations led to unfavorable outcomes for those involved, reinforcing concerns about how domestic politics are viewed abroad.

Accusations Against Politicians

Serious Allegations

• The speaker discusses absurd allegations against former Prime Minister Zapatero, including drug trafficking and torture, framing them as ludicrous yet damaging due to their serious nature and potential impact on personal reputation.

Impact on Personal Life

• Emphasis is placed on how such accusations can affect individuals' lives beyond politics, noting that they leave lasting scars regardless of their validity or eventual dismissal by authorities.

Questions on Judicial Processes

Inquiry into Sumarísimo Processes

• A question is posed regarding "sumarísimo" processes used against individuals politically targeted through media campaigns aimed at discrediting them without substantial evidence or fair trial rights.

Relationship with Coldo García

• Zapatero denies any connection with Coldo García amidst ongoing investigations while questioning why he was summoned during an electoral campaign period in Castilla y León, hinting at possible political motivations behind his appearance before the commission.

Reflections on Personal Experience

Privilege and Responsibility

• Zapatero reflects on his privileged life as a former Prime Minister while expressing concern over increasing polarization in politics which undermines respect for democratic procedures and leads to personal attacks against individuals based on unfounded claims.

Family Concerns

• He shares worries about how public scrutiny affects his family members who run small businesses amid rising tensions surrounding political discourse in Spain today.

Democratic Principles Under Threat

Importance of Respecting Democratic Norms

• Stressing that true democracy reveals itself when power is held responsibly; he advocates maintaining decorum even amidst heated debates or conflicts within government structures to uphold integrity in governance practices.

Power Dynamics

• He asserts that those wielding power must demonstrate restraint and respect towards opposition parties while ensuring fairness prevails across all levels within governmental frameworks.

Consequences of Insults

• Zapatero warns against using insults as tools for gaining advantage over opponents; he believes this approach ultimately harms both sides rather than fostering productive dialogue.

Call for Reflection

• He calls upon fellow politicians from opposing parties not only to reflect but also engage constructively instead resorting solely towards adversarial tactics which could lead further division among constituents.

Judicialization Concerns

• Expresses apprehension regarding judicializing politics leading down paths fraught with tension; urges collective reflection amongst leaders moving forward toward more collaborative approaches.

This structured summary captures key discussions from the transcript while providing timestamps linked directly back to relevant sections for easy navigation through content discussed during this session.

Discussion on Media Manipulation and Personal Integrity

The Impact of False Narratives

• The speaker highlights the pervasive issue of media distortion, emphasizing that false narratives can damage personal dignity and honor without any rectification from the media.

• A specific incident involving a trip to Saudi Arabia is mentioned, questioning the urgency and public activity reported by the media, showcasing a disconnect between reality and reporting.

• The speaker reflects on how some citizens may believe these fabrications, indicating a broader societal issue where misinformation can influence public perception.

Political Accountability

• The speaker discusses their attempt to verify claims made against them by contacting judicial authorities but faced barriers due to confidentiality laws.

• They express frustration over how their inquiries were manipulated into a narrative suggesting concern for their reputation rather than genuine inquiry into truth.

Reflection on Political Resilience

• Emphasizing that the real problem lies not with individual politicians but with unverified claims affecting various political figures, stressing the need for accountability in political discourse.

• Acknowledgment of former Spanish Prime Minister Zapatero's role in mediating for Spanish political prisoners in Venezuela is presented as an important humanitarian effort deserving recognition.

Negotiations and Amnisties in Venezuela

Current Developments

• Inquiry about progress in negotiations related to amnesty laws in Venezuela indicates ongoing diplomatic efforts amidst complex political dynamics.

• Clarification that discussions around Venezuela are outside the commission's primary focus leads to a retraction of questions regarding this topic.

Acknowledging Progress

• The speaker expresses gratitude towards Zapatero for advancing civil rights during his tenure, highlighting significant legislative achievements despite opposition from other parties.

Identity and Representation

Personal Reflections

• The speaker shares personal experiences regarding gender identity legislation, noting its significance in achieving representation within governmental structures.

Recognition of Contributions

• An attempt to publicly acknowledge Zapatero’s contributions is met with procedural pushback from committee leadership, illustrating tensions within parliamentary discourse.

Critique of Democratic Practices

Observations on Political Engagement

• Commentary on current political engagement emphasizes that democracy thrives on debate; however, there are concerns about leaders' absence from critical discussions.

Judicial Concerns

• The speaker raises issues regarding judges overstepping boundaries into legislative roles while asserting that politicians should not act as judges themselves.

Historical Context and Accountability

Past Leadership Challenges

• Reflecting on past accusations during their presidency post 11M attacks illustrates challenges faced when navigating public sentiment amid crises.

Dialogue Over Judicialization

• Advocating against judicializing politics underscores belief in dialogue as essential for democratic health; legal actions should not overshadow political processes.

Legacy of Violence and Peace Efforts

Addressing Terrorism

• Discussion includes reflections on handling terrorism during their administration; maintaining dialogue was crucial for peace efforts against ETA violence.

Importance of Historical Dialogue

• Emphasizes historical context surrounding terrorism's impact on Spain’s governance structure while advocating continued dialogue across party lines.

Current Professional Endeavors Post-Presidency

Professional Activities

• Speaker outlines current work as an independent consultant focusing primarily on giving lectures and participating in seminars without forming any companies or receiving payments from foreign governments.

Financial Transparency

• Clarifies financial arrangements concerning state-funded office expenses while denying any income derived from Venezuelan government activities.

Ethical Considerations

• Discusses ethical limits surrounding ex-presidents’ business engagements while affirming commitment to transparency regarding personal finances.

Discussion on Political Integrity and Justice

Commitment to Political Figures

• The speaker expresses unwavering support for former President Aznar, indicating a strong belief in his integrity.

• They also extend this trust to current SOE leader Santos Cerdán, emphasizing the importance of presumption of innocence.

Respecting Judicial Processes

• The speaker stresses the necessity of respecting judicial outcomes, asserting that they are not a judge or prosecutor and will accept what justice dictates as truth.

• They highlight the psychological challenge of remaining impartial during investigations while acknowledging the temptation to act like a prosecutor.

Foundations of Democracy

• A clear definition is provided: democracy thrives where fundamental rights and separation of powers are upheld, which is essential for legal security and citizen rights.

• The speaker warns against authoritarianism beginning with violations of personal privacy, underscoring the need for vigilance in protecting democratic values.

Investigative Commission Dynamics

Questioning Techniques

• An inquiry into Sergio Sánchez's role reveals connections to significant political events, suggesting deeper implications regarding communication strategies within government agencies.

• The speaker defends their position by stating that understanding CNI operations is crucial but must remain confidential for operational integrity.

Historical Context and Dictatorship Comparisons

• Franco is labeled a "bloodthirsty dictator," prompting discussions about contemporary dictatorships such as Maduro's regime in Venezuela. This comparison serves to contextualize current political climates within historical frameworks.

Institutional Respect and Political Accountability

Critique of Parliamentary Conduct

• A senator criticizes fellow members for disrespecting institutional authority while claiming patriotism, highlighting inconsistencies in their behavior towards governance principles.

Stance on Corruption Investigations

• Euscaler Riildu asserts its lack of corruption cases compared to other parties present, advocating for thorough investigations into any corruption allegations without bias towards specific parties involved.

Allegations Against Government Intentions

Political Motivations Behind Investigations

• The commission's purpose is questioned; it’s suggested that it serves partisan interests rather than genuine accountability or transparency regarding corruption issues involving the Socialist Party.

Dialogue vs Conflict Approach

• Emphasis on dialogue as a means to resolve conflicts contrasts sharply with adversarial approaches taken by some political factions aiming at destabilizing the coalition government led by socialists and leftist groups.

Reflections on Governance and Democratic Values

Importance of Civil Discourse

• The speaker advocates for civility in political discourse over insults or disqualifications, arguing that respectful engagement leads to healthier democratic processes regardless of party affiliation or ideology.

Recognition of Past Efforts Towards Peace

• Acknowledgment is given to those who contributed to ending violence from ETA, reinforcing the idea that reconciliation requires recognition and respect across differing viewpoints within society.

Discussion on Investigative Committees and Political Accountability

The Nature of Investigations

• The speaker questions the legitimacy of certain investigations, comparing them to a hypothetical scenario where a former leader is unjustly scrutinized.

• A comment on the nature of offense in political discourse, suggesting that some inquiries may be more about personal vendettas than genuine investigation.

Suggestions for Broader Inquiry

• The speaker proposes expanding the scope of investigations to include international lists, hinting at potential connections between political figures and global controversies.

Concerns Over Fairness

• There are concerns regarding the fairness and seriousness of the commission's proceedings, likening it to an inquisitorial system where outcomes seem predetermined.

• The speaker denies any involvement with lobbying or financial misconduct, emphasizing transparency in their professional history.

Personal Financial Integrity

Claims of Transparency

• The speaker asserts they have never engaged in questionable financial practices or held positions that could compromise their integrity.

• They emphasize having no fiscal issues with tax authorities, reinforcing their claim of financial propriety.

Accusations from Opponents

• Questions arise about whether political opponents have faced similar scrutiny regarding their finances, indicating a disparity in treatment among politicians.

Allegations Involving Pollo Carvajal

Contextualizing Allegations

• Inquiry into a handwritten letter from Pollo Carvajal raises questions about its authenticity and implications for the speaker’s reputation.

Response to Falsehoods

• The speaker acknowledges receiving multiple letters refuting false claims made against them, highlighting ongoing misinformation campaigns.

Media Influence on Public Perception

Misinformation Dynamics

• Discussion centers around how media narratives can distort public perception by amplifying unverified allegations against politicians.

Political Repercussions

• Emphasizes how false information leads to immediate political fallout, particularly when opposition parties seize upon these narratives without verification.

Addressing False Narratives

Importance of Evidence

• Stresses that valid accusations must be supported by credible evidence; otherwise, they contribute to arbitrary persecution rather than legitimate inquiry.

Defense Against Misinformation

• Asserts commitment to defending personal rights and freedoms as enshrined in constitutional law amidst ongoing attacks on character.

Commitment to Pluralism and Freedom of Expression

Historical Perspective

• Reflects on past leadership experiences promoting pluralism and accepting criticism as essential components of democracy.

Role of Media

• Highlights the critical role media plays in shaping public discourse while acknowledging challenges posed by sensationalist reporting.

Professional Engagement Post-Presidency

Consulting Work

• Discusses engagements with various organizations post-presidency while clarifying boundaries regarding ethical consulting practices.

Demand for Expertise

• Notes high demand for insights based on extensive experience abroad but maintains clear professional ethics during consultations.

Circular Information Issues

• Critiques how misinformation circulates within political contexts, emphasizing responsibility among journalists and politicians alike.

Political Accountability and Historical Context

Critique of Current Governance

• The speaker criticizes the current government for prioritizing the interests of the powerful, suggesting that both they and President Pedro Sánchez are not forgiven for their policies aimed at promoting equality.

• Acknowledges a long-standing relationship with former President Zapatero, highlighting his past proposals for unity against terrorism during his opposition tenure.

Historical Contributions to Freedom

• References Zapatero's efforts in fostering peace through dialogue, which led to significant societal changes in Spain by 2011, restoring freedoms particularly in the Basque region.

• Expresses gratitude towards Zapatero and others who played pivotal roles in achieving peace across Spain.

Respectful Discourse Amidst Tension

• The speaker emphasizes respect towards former officials while maintaining a firm stance on accountability regarding pressing societal issues.

• Clarifies that discussions should focus on specific allegations rather than political rhetoric or historical grievances.

Allegations of Corruption

Financial Misconduct Claims

• Raises concerns about potential misuse of public funds related to Plus Ultra rescues, questioning whether private business dealings influenced governmental decisions.

• Asserts that inquiries into personal business activities are valid if they intersect with governmental actions favoring those businesses.

Demand for Transparency

• The speaker insists on direct answers from Zapatero regarding claims made by other politicians about his involvement in financial misconduct.

• Challenges Zapatero’s denial of pressuring Ávalos concerning Plus Ultra, citing conflicting statements from Ávalos post-incarceration.

Defense Against Accusations

Denial of Wrongdoing

• Zapatero firmly denies any wrongdoing or pressure exerted on ministers regarding financial matters related to Plus Ultra.

• Points out discrepancies between testimonies from various individuals involved, asserting that accusations lack substantial evidence.

Call for Seriousness in Discourse

• Emphasizes the importance of serious discourse over hearsay and insists on factual substantiation when discussing allegations against him.

Professional Engagements and Consultancies

Clarification of Business Activities

• Questions arise about Zapatero's professional engagements with consulting firms; he denies any inappropriate connections or influence over companies like Telefónica.

Relationship with Other Politicians

• Denies ever collaborating directly with notable politicians such as José Bono or Gaspar Llamazares on consultancy projects.

Investigative Concerns

Inquiry into Legal Matters

• The discussion shifts to Zapatero's communication with judicial figures regarding ongoing investigations linked to his name, raising eyebrows about propriety.

Allegations Regarding International Investigations

• Questions arise about an alleged investigation by U.S. authorities concerning ties to Venezuela; Zapatero refutes these claims as unfounded speculation.

Diplomatic Engagements and Public Perception

Use of Diplomatic Privileges

• Discussion includes whether Zapatero utilized state resources during diplomatic travels; he confirms using official means but defends their appropriateness given his status as a former president.

Addressing Public Scrutiny

• Highlights the unusual nature of a former president being scrutinized under suspicion while emphasizing the need for due process amidst allegations.

Discussion on Instrumental Societies and Financial Transactions

Understanding Instrumental Societies

• The term "sociedad instrumental" (instrumental society) is introduced, indicating a structure with a single income and expense, where the speaker is both the provider and receiver.

• A significant financial transaction is highlighted: nearly €500,000 invoiced to "análisis relevante," which was then billed to Plus Ultra, raising questions about potential state rescue connections.

• The speaker defends their lack of involvement in the creation of this society while questioning how others can assert knowledge about it without direct involvement.

Financial Discrepancies and Contracts

• A contract between Plus Ultra and an individual for a 1% fee for successful government negotiations raises suspicions about its legitimacy.

• The speaker challenges the notion that these coincidences do not suggest an instrumental society created for ulterior motives.

Characteristics of Screen Companies

• Criteria from the OECD are discussed regarding what constitutes a screen company, including lack of employees or real infrastructure.

• The speaker argues that all indicators point towards this being a non-functional entity designed to collect money without legitimate activity.

Reports and Consultations

• Claims are made regarding 15 reports produced by Sergio, with oral consultations also mentioned as part of their work.

• There’s skepticism about the authenticity of these reports; they are described as lacking originality and merely compiling existing information.

Allegations of Fraudulent Practices

• Accusations arise suggesting that reports were fabricated during critical times like the pandemic to justify inflated payments for minimal work.

• An analysis reveals that one report was derived from publicly available sources rather than original research, questioning its value.

Connections to Huawei and Security Concerns

• Links between individuals involved in Plus Ultra and Huawei raise alarms over security implications due to Huawei's controversial status in international relations.

Conclusion on Corruption Indicators

• The discussion culminates in allegations that public funds may have been misappropriated through complex corporate structures designed to obscure true financial dealings.

Discussion on Venezuela and Political Accountability

Accusations Against Zapatero

• The speaker asserts that the actions taken by Sánchez would be impossible without Zapatero's involvement, indicating a deep connection between their political maneuvers.

• The speaker challenges Zapatero's denial of economic ties to Venezuela, questioning his integrity and suggesting he is complicit in corrupt dealings.

• A claim is made regarding the lack of substantial evidence against the speaker, contrasting it with accusations directed at them about financial misconduct.

Allegations of Dictatorship

• The speaker categorically labels the Venezuelan regime as a dictatorship, emphasizing that this reality is widely recognized.

• Evidence is presented suggesting that Sánchez has protected Zapatero throughout his political career, implying a quid pro quo relationship.

Political Influence and Corruption

• The discussion highlights how Zapatero’s influence extends into both domestic and foreign policy, particularly concerning Venezuela.

• The speaker expresses confidence that justice will ultimately reveal the truth about Zapatero's alleged corruption linked to Sánchez.

Defense Against Defamation

Claims of Professional Integrity

• Zapatero defends his professional reputation against allegations of wrongdoing, asserting that he has conducted legitimate business activities without any legal issues.

• He emphasizes his credibility by referencing past engagements with various consultancies and public speaking events where his expertise was sought.

Countering Accusations

• The speaker confronts claims made by Feijóo regarding supposed illicit dealings with Maduro, labeling these accusations as defamatory and unfounded.

• A strong rebuttal is given to insinuations about meeting criminals; he argues such meetings do not equate to criminal behavior unless proven otherwise.

Ongoing Campaign Against Zapatero

Response to Continuous Attacks

• Zapatero acknowledges ongoing attacks against him as part of a broader campaign aimed at undermining his support for the current government.

• He expresses determination to continue defending himself against what he perceives as baseless insults and defamations from political opponents.

This structured summary captures key discussions from the transcript while providing timestamps for easy reference.