Using Hypnosis to Enhance Health & Performance | Dr. David Spiegel

Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast

In this section, Andrew Huberman introduces the podcast and his guest, Dr. David Spiegel. They discuss the focus of the podcast on science and science-based tools for everyday life.

Introduction to Dr. David Spiegel

• Dr. David Spiegel is the associate chair of psychiatry and behavioral neurosciences at Stanford University School of Medicine.

• He is a researcher and clinician who studies the brain-body interaction and specializes in clinical applications of hypnosis.

• Hypnosis is a unique brain state that can enhance neuroplasticity, leading to improvements in symptoms of stress, anxiety, pain, and various illnesses.

Hypnosis vs Stage Hypnosis

This section explores the difference between stage hypnosis and clinical hypnosis. It emphasizes how clinical hypnosis focuses on changing brain states for therapeutic purposes.

Key Points:

• Stage hypnosis involves getting people to do things they wouldn't normally do for entertainment purposes.

• Clinical hypnosis aims to change brain states for therapeutic benefits by utilizing neuroplasticity.

• Clinical hypnosis has been shown to improve symptoms of various ailments, including psychiatric illnesses and cancer outcomes.

Hypnotizability Test

Dr. Spiegel developed a simple test to determine an individual's hypnotizability level.

Key Points:

• Not everyone can be easily hypnotized.

• The hypnotizability test helps determine an individual's degree of hypnotizability (high, medium, or low).

Expertise in Hypnosis

This section highlights Dr. Spiegel's expertise in hypnosis and its clinical applications.

Key Points:

• Dr. Spiegel has published numerous articles and books on hypnosis, psychosocial oncology, stress physiology, trauma, and psychotherapy.

• He is considered a world expert in hypnosis for mind and body.

Reveri App

The Reveri app, developed by Dr. Spiegel's lab at Stanford, is introduced as a tool based on clinical studies and research for hypnosis.

Key Points:

• The Reveri app is designed with clinical treatments in mind.

• It provides access to tools that can help adjust the mind and body using hypnosis techniques.

• The app is currently available for Apple devices with a seven-day free trial.

Breathwork

This section discusses the use of breathwork as a tool to adjust the mind and body for anxiety, mood improvement, and better sleep.

Key Points:

• Dr. Huberman's research lab at Stanford collaborates closely with Dr. Spiegel in testing and developing specific breathwork protocols.

• Breathwork can be used to regulate various aspects of brain health and improve overall well-being.

Clinical Hypnosis Session

Dr. Huberman mentions that a clip of his hypnotic session with Dr. Spiegel will be posted on the Huberman Lab Clips channel on YouTube.

Key Points:

• The podcast episode focuses on self-hypnosis rather than stage hypnosis.

• A demonstration of a clinical hypnosis session will be available on the Huberman Lab Clips channel.

Podcast Disclaimer & Sponsorship

Andrew Huberman emphasizes that the podcast is separate from his teaching and research roles at Stanford. He also introduces the podcast sponsor, Athletic Greens.

Key Points:

• The podcast is a separate endeavor from Andrew Huberman's academic roles.

• Athletic Greens is an all-in-one vitamin, mineral, and probiotic drink that supports overall health.

• Probiotics in Athletic Greens help maintain a healthy gut microbiome, which influences various aspects of our biology.

Special Offer from Athletic Greens

Andrew Huberman mentions a special offer from Athletic Greens for podcast listeners.

Key Points:

• Listeners can try Athletic Greens by visiting athleticgreens.com/huberman to claim a special offer.

• The offer includes five free travel packs and a year's supply of vitamin D3 K2.

• Vitamin D3 and K2 are important for immediate and long-term health.

Thesis and Nootropics

This section discusses the concept of smart drugs or nootropics and introduces Thesis, a company that creates custom nootropics tailored to specific brain-body states.

Introduction to Nootropics

• Smart drugs or nootropics are substances that enhance cognitive function.

• Being smart involves various aspects such as creativity, focus, and task switching, each involving different operations in the brain and neural circuits.

• Different neurochemicals need to be deployed for different cognitive functions.

Custom Nootropics by Thesis

• Thesis develops custom nootropics aimed at getting the brain and body into particular states for specific types of work or physical activity.

• They create unique blends of high-quality ingredients designed to achieve specific modes like focus, clarity, or motivation.

• The custom blends are tailored to individual needs through a quiz on their website.

Personalized Nootropics Starter Kit

This section provides information on how to get personalized nootropic blends from Thesis by taking a quiz on their website.

Tailored Blends for Individual Needs

• By taking a quiz on the Thesis website, individuals can tailor the blend of nootropics according to their specific needs and preferences.

• The personalized nootropic starter kit includes four different formulas for the first month.

• Based on the outcomes with these formulas, formulations can be updated accordingly.

ROKA Eyeglasses and Sunglasses

This section highlights ROKA eyeglasses and sunglasses known for their quality design and performance-oriented features.

Performance-Oriented Design

• ROKA eyeglasses and sunglasses are lightweight yet durable.

• They have great aesthetics, suitable for both everyday wear and exercise activities like running or cycling.

• The design takes into account the biology of the visual system, allowing smooth transitions between different lighting environments.

Introduction to Hypnosis

This section introduces hypnosis as a state of highly focused attention and discusses its similarities to immersive experiences in movies or sports games.

Definition of Hypnosis

• Hypnosis is a state of highly focused attention, similar to looking through the telephoto lens of a camera in consciousness.

• It involves experiencing something with great detail but devoid of context.

• Immersive experiences in movies or sports games can be considered hypnotic-like experiences.

Dr. David Spiegel's Interest in Hypnosis

This section explores how Dr. David Spiegel got interested in hypnosis and contrasts clinical hypnosis with stage hypnosis.

Personal Interest and Family Background

• Dr. David Spiegel's interest in hypnosis stems from his family background, as both his parents were psychiatrists and psychoanalysts.

• His father encountered a Vietnamese refugee who had studied hypnosis during his training as a psychoanalyst.

Contrasting Clinical and Stage Hypnosis

• Clinical hypnosis focuses on therapeutic applications and helping individuals achieve specific goals.

• Stage hypnosis is primarily for entertainment purposes, involving volunteers who exhibit unusual behaviors under the guidance of a hypnotist.

The Beginnings of Interest in Hypnosis

In this section, the speaker discusses how his father became interested in hypnosis and its applications during wartime.

Gustav von Aschaffenburg and Forensic Hypnosis

• Gustav von Aschaffenburg, a forensic psychiatrist, got interested in hypnosis due to encountering individuals in an altered state.

• He offered to teach young psychiatrists, including the speaker's father, how to use hypnosis during their service in the war.

Discovering Hypnosis through Analytic Couch

• The speaker's father learned about hypnosis when his analyst mentioned it during a session.

• Initially confused by why his analyst suddenly brought up the topic, he found it useful for helping soldiers with acute pain and post-traumatic stress disorders.

Frieda Fromm-Reichmann and Continued Interest in Hypnosis

This section explores how Frieda Fromm-Reichmann influenced the speaker's father's continued interest in hypnosis despite being discouraged from using it.

Supervision with Frieda Fromm-Reichmann

• One of the speaker's father's supervisors was Frieda Fromm-Reichmann, a renowned psychoanalyst.

• She encouraged him to continue exploring hypnosis despite being told that it could harm his reputation as an analyst.

Better Results with Hypnosis

• Over time, the speaker's father discovered that he achieved better results with just a few sessions of hypnosis compared to daily psychoanalysis.

• This led him to switch his practice and rely more on hypnosis as a therapeutic tool.

Personal Experience and Medical School

The speaker shares personal experiences that sparked their interest in learning more about hypnosis and its potential applications.

Witnessing Hypnosis in Action

• The speaker had the opportunity to watch their father make a movie of a patient using hypnosis.

• This exposure piqued their curiosity, leading them to consider taking a course on hypnosis during medical school.

Taking a Course on Hypnosis

• The speaker enrolled in a course taught by Tom Hackett, the chair of psychiatry at Mass General Hospital.

• The course proved to be fascinating and further solidified their interest in exploring the possibilities of hypnosis.

A Transformative Experience

The speaker recounts an experience during their rotation at Children's Hospital that convinced them of the power of hypnosis.

Asthmatic Patient

• The speaker encountered a 16-year-old girl with severe asthma who was struggling to breathe despite medical interventions.

• Feeling unsure about how to help her, the speaker suggested teaching her a breathing exercise through hypnosis.

Positive Outcome with Hypnosis

• After hypnotizing the patient and guiding her through deepening breaths, her symptoms significantly improved within five minutes.

• Her mother stopped crying, and even medical interventions like general anesthesia were no longer deemed necessary.

Challenges and Advocacy for Hypnosis

The speaker faces challenges and resistance when using hypnosis as a therapeutic tool but remains determined to advocate for its benefits.

Complaint and Resistance

• A nursing supervisor filed a complaint against the speaker for hypnotizing a minor without parental consent, citing an alleged violation of Massachusetts law.

• Despite facing opposition from colleagues who deemed it dangerous, the speaker refused to stop using hypnosis if it could benefit their patients.

Involvement of Chief Resident and Attending

• A discussion ensued among the intern, chief resident, and attending regarding whether or not to continue using hypnosis.

• Eventually, they decided to ask the patient for her input, which led to positive outcomes and a shift in perspective.

Embracing Hypnosis and Exploring its Potential

The speaker reflects on their journey with hypnosis, realizing the untapped potential of the human mind and the need for further exploration.

Embracing Hypnosis

• Despite facing challenges, the speaker continued using hypnosis due to its effectiveness in helping patients.

• They discovered that while their classmates focused on new medications, they found joy in learning how to help people through hypnosis.

Unlocking the Potential of the Mind

• The speaker acknowledges that humans are born with a powerful brain but lack a user's manual for it.

• They express a desire to understand the mind better and explore what can be achieved through harnessing its capabilities.

Disapproval of Stage Hypnosis

The speaker shares their disapproval of stage hypnosis and highlights an incident involving their father's involvement in helping a distressed participant.

Negative View of Stage Hypnosis

• The speaker expresses disdain for stage hypnotists who make fools out of people.

• They recount an incident where their father was called upon to assist a woman who experienced distress after participating in a stage hypnotism show.

Understanding Psychological Triggers

• The distressed woman felt like a bird trapped in a gilded cage due to her role as a trophy wife.

• Through therapy, she was able to address her dissatisfaction and discomfort related to her life situation.

Addressing Misconceptions about Hypnosis

The speaker emphasizes that hypnosis is not about losing control but rather gaining control over one's mind and body.

Hypnosis and Control

• The speaker asserts that hypnosis is a tool for enhancing control over one's mind and body.

• They highlight the misconception that hypnosis leads to loss of control, which can deter people from exploring its potential benefits.

Self-Hypnosis and Cognitive Flexibility

The Therapeutic Potential and Misuse of Hypnosis

In this section, the speaker discusses the therapeutic opportunities and potential dangers associated with hypnosis. They emphasize the importance of suspending critical judgment and experiencing hypnosis from a different perspective.

Understanding Hypnotizability and Personal Experiences

• The speaker shares their personal experiences with stage hypnotism and clinical hypnosis, highlighting their own hypnotizability.

• They recall an embarrassing experience during stage hypnotism where a suggestion was planted in their mind, leading to unexpected behavior.

• The speaker reflects on the brain processes involved in hypnosis, mentioning induction, being in a hypnotic state, and exiting the state.

Brain Activity During Hypnosis

• The speaker discusses brain areas active during hypnosis, specifically focusing on the dorsal anterior cingulate cortex (DACC), which plays a role in detecting conflicts and potential danger.

• They explain that turning down activity in the DACC helps maintain focus and prevent distractions during hypnosis.

• Highly hypnotizable individuals show increased functional connectivity between the DACC and left dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (DLPFC), which is involved in executive control tasks.

Control over Body Functions

• Functional connectivity between the DLPFC and insula allows for control over bodily functions. For example, highly hypnotizable individuals can increase gastric acid secretion through imagination alone.

• The speaker mentions the ability of the brain to control bodily functions, even in response to suggestions given during hypnosis.

• Decreased gastric acid secretion can also be achieved through relaxation and redirecting thoughts away from food or drink.

Dissociation and Cognitive Flexibility

• Hypnosis involves putting things outside of conscious awareness and not worrying about their meaning. This promotes cognitive flexibility and allows for new experiences.

• Inverse functional connectivity between the DLPFC and posterior cingulate cortex is observed during hypnosis, similar to what occurs during meditation. This dissociation helps focus on actions without self-referential thinking.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses the therapeutic advantages of hypnosis and the pioneering work done by their laboratory in brain imaging of hypnotic states.

Pioneering Work in Brain Imaging of Hypnotic States

• The speaker's laboratory has pioneered brain imaging of hypnotic states.

• Other researchers, such as Pierre Rainville in Montreal, have also conducted excellent research in this area.

New Section

In this section, the speaker addresses attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and its relation to the dorsal anterior cingulate and salience network. They discuss whether hypnosis or self-hypnosis can enhance focus and attention for individuals with ADHD.

ADHD and Hypnosis

• The dorsal anterior cingulate and salience network are related to attention and distractibility.

• Individuals with ADHD may display disruptions in these networks.

• Hypnosis has been helpful in teaching people to narrow their focus and concentrate on specific tasks.

• It is possible that training in self-hypnosis could help individuals with ADHD improve their ability to focus, but further research is needed.

New Section

In this section, the speaker explores how hypnosis can enhance focus and attention. They discuss personal experiences with getting absorbed in activities and how self-hypnosis can be used to overcome struggles.

Enhancing Focus through Hypnosis

• Hypnosis has been helpful in teaching people to prepare their minds for focused attention.

• Engaging activities can feel like a hypnotic experience when one gets absorbed in them.

• Self-hypnosis can be beneficial for overcoming struggles or difficulties.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses ADHD further and speculates on the potential benefits of hypnosis or self-hypnosis for individuals with ADHD.

Hypnosis and ADHD

• Individuals with ADHD may experience constant distractions and rigidity in their attention.

• Hypnotizability may vary among individuals with ADHD, and further research is needed to determine if self-hypnosis can be helpful for them.

New Section

In this section, the speaker explores the various applications of hypnosis beyond asthma. They discuss its effectiveness in stress reduction and controlling mind-body interactions.

Applications of Hypnosis

• Hypnosis is effective as a problem-focused treatment.

• It has been found helpful in stress reduction by addressing the mind-body connection.

• Hypnosis can dissociate somatic reactions from psychological reactions, helping individuals gain control over their physical responses to stressors.

New Section

In this section, the speaker continues discussing the applications of hypnosis. They specifically focus on its usefulness in improving sleep quality.

Improving Sleep Quality through Hypnosis

• Hypnosis can help people get better sleep by dissociating thoughts or worries from physical arousal cues.

• Imagining a safe and comfortable place while keeping the body relaxed can aid in falling back asleep during nighttime awakenings.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses using self-hypnosis during daytime to prepare for dealing with stressful events later. They also explore whether repeated use of self-hypnosis strengthens neural connections.

Self-Hypnosis for Stress Reduction

• Self-hypnosis can be used away from stressful events to prepare oneself for better stress management.

• Repeated use of self-hypnosis may strengthen neural connections related to hypnosis but further evidence is needed.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses the effectiveness of hypnosis for specific problems and its applications in psychiatric challenges.

Problem-Focused Treatment with Hypnosis

• Hypnosis is an effective treatment for specific problems.

• It has been found helpful in stress reduction and dealing with various psychiatric challenges.

New Section

In this section, the speaker explains how hypnosis can help dissociate somatic reactions from psychological reactions, providing individuals with a sense of control over their stressors.

Controlling Mind-Body Interaction through Hypnosis

• Hypnosis can teach individuals to dissociate somatic reactions from psychological reactions.

• By imagining a comfortable place while keeping the body relaxed, individuals can gain a sense of control over their physical responses to stressors.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses using hypnosis for sleep improvement and shares positive feedback received regarding its effectiveness.

Sleep Improvement through Hypnosis

• Hypnosis has been effective in helping people improve their sleep quality.

• The speaker receives positive feedback from individuals who have experienced better sleep after using hypnosis techniques.

New Section

In this section, the speaker talks about using self-hypnosis for falling back asleep during nighttime awakenings. They also discuss training neural networks through self-hypnosis.

Self-Hypnosis for Falling Back Asleep

• Self-hypnosis can be used to facilitate falling back asleep during nighttime awakenings.

New Section

In this section, the myth surrounding the phrase "fire together wire together" is addressed. The correct attribution of this statement is given to neurobiologist Carla Shatz, not psychologist Donald Hebb.

Attribution of "Fire Together Wire Together"

• The widespread myth that psychologist Donald Hebb coined the phrase "fire together wire together" is debunked.

• Neurobiologist Carla Shatz, who worked at Stanford, Berkeley, and Harvard, is credited with making this statement.

New Section

This section discusses the potential strengthening of neural networks through repeated use of self-hypnosis and its implications for learning and memory.

Strengthening Neural Networks

• Repeated activation of a network through self-hypnosis may lead to stronger connections within that network.

• Long-term potentiation provides a pathway for building new connections in activated networks.

• Memory relies on networks of associations, and context and association play crucial roles in memory recall.

• An example is given where memories associated with a grade school locker resurface upon revisiting the location.

New Section

This section explores how hypnosis can be used to treat phobias by creating positive associations and experiences.

Treating Phobias with Hypnosis

• Hypnosis can be effective in treating phobias by helping individuals manage their anxiety and develop positive associations.

• People with phobias often avoid situations or objects related to their fear, leading to a reinforcement of negative associations.

• By using hypnosis to reduce anxiety levels, individuals can have more varied experiences that contribute to building positive associations.

New Section

This section compares exposure therapy and hypnosis in treating phobias, highlighting the advantages of hypnosis in providing positive experiences without physical props.

Hypnosis vs. Exposure Therapy

• Exposure therapy typically involves gradually exposing individuals to their fears, starting with pictures and progressing to real-life situations.

• Hypnosis can provide positive experiences without the need for physical props or real-life exposure.

• A case is mentioned where a woman with a dog phobia was able to overcome her fear through imagination and changing her perspective on control.

New Section

This section further explores the use of hypnosis in creating positive experiences without physical props, focusing on a specific case involving a woman with a dog phobia.

Overcoming Dog Phobia with Hypnosis

• Hypnosis can create positive experiences without the need for physical props or real-life exposure.

• A successful case is described where a woman with a dog phobia imagined interacting with a dog during hypnosis sessions.

• By reframing her perspective on control and engaging with the imagined dog, she was able to overcome her fear and eventually adopt a dog herself.

New Section

This section highlights an amusing anecdote about transference in hypnosis and emphasizes the power of hypnosis in facilitating behavioral changes.

Anecdote and Power of Hypnosis

• An amusing anecdote is shared about how someone named their newly adopted dog after their therapist due to transference during hypnotherapy sessions.

• The story illustrates the profound impact that hypnosis can have on behavior change and overcoming fears.

New Section

This section delves into the difference between traditional therapy approaches and hypnosis, emphasizing the role of brain state and narrative in facilitating neural network engagement.

Brain State and Narrative in Hypnosis

• Traditional therapy approaches involve discussing phobias or traumas, but hypnosis offers a different brain state that combines with narrative.

• The unique brain state induced by hypnosis may enhance neural network engagement and facilitate change.

• While conversations about phobias can occur in both traditional therapy and hypnosis, the altered brain state during hypnosis may contribute to more profound transformations.

New Section

This section reflects on the significance of brain activity during hypnosis compared to verbal discussions in traditional therapy settings.

Brain Activity in Hypnosis

• The difference between traditional therapy and hypnosis lies not only in what is spoken but also in the distinct brain states induced.

• While discussions about stress or phobias can occur in both settings, the altered brain activity during hypnosis may play a crucial role in facilitating behavioral changes without medication.

Desensitization and Mental State Change

In this section, the speaker discusses the concept of unsystematic desensitization and the therapeutic potential of changing mental states. They mention examples such as ketamine treatment for depression and how changing mental states can help in dealing with problems.

Unsystematic Desensitization

• Changing mental states has therapeutic potential.

• Mental state change can be achieved through techniques like unsystematic desensitization.

• Ketamine is an example of a dissociogenic drug that treats depression by changing mental states.

• Changing mental state can help in dealing with problems, such as reading a nasty email before going to bed and waking up with a different perspective.

Restructuring Traumatic Experiences

This section focuses on the ability to regulate and change responses to traumatic experiences. The speaker mentions principles such as facing the problem, seeing it from a different point of view, and finding ways to reconnect with positive emotions. They also discuss using hypnosis as a tool for faster restructuring.

Regulating Responses to Trauma

• We have the ability to regulate and change cognitive, emotional, and somatic responses to trauma.

• Similar principles used in facing problems and seeing them from different perspectives apply here.

• Exposing oneself to trauma instead of avoiding it is important for restructuring understanding of it.

• Finding substitutes that make one feel good rather than bad activates other centers of the brain like the mesolimbic reward system.

• Hypnosis can be used for faster restructuring by changing mental states.

Using Hypnosis for Trauma Treatment

The speaker shares an example of using hypnosis to help a woman who had experienced an attempted rape. By inducing a hypnotic state, they were able to access suppressed memories and help the woman restructure her experience of the trauma.

Hypnosis for Trauma Treatment

• Hypnosis can be used to access suppressed memories and facilitate restructuring of traumatic experiences.

• The speaker shares an example of a woman who had suffered an attempted rape.

• Through hypnosis, the woman was able to recall details about the attacker and understand the potential danger she was in.

• Hypnosis helped her restructure her experience of the trauma and make it more tolerable.

State Dependent Memory

The concept of state-dependent memory is discussed in relation to trauma. The speaker explains how being in a similar mental state during therapy can enhance memory recall and aid in dealing with traumatic memories.

State Dependent Memory

• State-dependent memory refers to the enhanced ability to remember things when in a similar mental state as when the memory was formed.

• Dissociative states often occur during traumatic episodes.

• Hypnosis helps individuals access traumatic memories by creating a congruent mental state similar to what they experienced during the trauma.

• This congruence between mental states facilitates treatment of trauma-related disorders.

Ketamine and Dissociation

The speaker raises a question about why dissociation, which is part of adaptive strategies during traumatic episodes, can also be addressed using ketamine, which induces dissociative states. They express confusion regarding this topic.

Ketamine and Dissociation

• Dissociation is considered an adaptive strategy during traumatic episodes.

• Ketamine, which induces dissociative states, is used for treating trauma-related disorders.

• The speaker expresses confusion about why dissociation would be treated with something that creates a similar state.

New Section

In this section, the discussion revolves around the neural mechanisms of ketamine and its potential as a treatment for dissociative states.

Understanding Ketamine's Neural Effects

• Researchers have discovered that there are layer one networks in the neocortex involved in dissociative states.

• Ketamine has shown promise as a treatment for certain populations, although more research is needed.

• Studies with rats and humans have demonstrated that ketamine triggers rhythmic discharge in the retrosplenial region, leading to dissociative-like behavior.

• Human subjects who experienced rhythmic activity reported being in a dissociative state, describing it as feeling like a pilot walking out of the cockpit while the plane continues flying.

New Section

This section explores the concept of re-confronting traumatic situations and how dissociation can hinder trauma processing.

Re-confronting Traumatic Situations

• To modulate associations to traumatic memories, it is necessary to re-confront them and approach them from a different perspective.

• Dissociation can compartmentalize experiences but inhibits engagement with trauma. People who disassociated during natural disasters like earthquakes may struggle to process their experiences fully.

• Ketamine may work by allowing individuals to re-approach dissociative experiences and actively think about them, facilitating processing and healing.

• Self-hypnosis can also be helpful in gaining control over mind and body, reducing feelings of helplessness associated with trauma.

New Section

This section delves into the power of hypnosis and the importance of naming and control in trauma treatment.

The Power of Hypnosis

• Hypnosis, including self-hypnosis, is a powerful tool for enhancing control over mind and body.

• Naming plays a crucial role in how hypnosis is perceived. If it had been called something other than hypnosis, it might have been less stigmatized.

• Hypnosis can lead to quick relief from symptoms, but the duration of changes varies. Follow-up may be necessary for long-lasting effects.

• Working with a licensed clinician who can assess the problem accurately is recommended. However, self-directed treatment through self-hypnosis can also be effective.

New Section

This section discusses the process of working with a clinical hypnotist and the benefits of self-hypnosis.

Directed vs. Self-Directed Treatment

• It is advisable to start by seeing a clinician trained in their professional discipline (medicine, psychology, dentistry) who can assess the problem accurately.

• Not all hypnotists have proper training or licensing to address underlying issues effectively.

• Clinical hypnotists often teach patients self-hypnosis techniques so they can continue treatment independently.

• Using an app or recording sessions on devices like iPhones can aid in practicing self-hypnosis.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses the elements of their program that can help people with various issues such as pain, stress, focus, insomnia, and smoking cessation. They mention that there are different time durations for these elements, ranging from 15 minutes to just one or two minutes. The speaker also highlights the effectiveness of even a one-minute refresher in helping people feel better.

• The program includes two-minute and one-minute hypnosis sessions.

• Two-thirds of the participants reported feeling better after just a one-minute refresher.

Hypnosis for Pain Relief

In this section, the speaker talks about a randomized trial they conducted on using hypnosis for pain relief during medical procedures. They compared three conditions: standard care with opioids, standard care with comforting support from a nurse, and teaching self-hypnosis for pain control.

• The study showed that the group taught self-hypnosis had reduced their pain by 80% compared to the standard care group.

• The hypnosis group required half the amount of opioids and had fewer complications.

• The procedure took an average of 17 minutes less time to complete in the hypnosis group.

• Both patients and treatment staff experienced reduced anxiety in the hypnosis group.

Long-Term Effects of Hypnosis

In this section, the speaker discusses whether hypnosis has long-term effects. They mention a randomized trial conducted on women with metastatic breast cancer who were taught self-hypnosis for stress, anxiety, and pain control.

• After a year, the treatment group had half the amount of pain compared to the control group.

• The treatment group required very low amounts of medication.

• Participants reported using self-hypnosis techniques to manage pain effectively.

Reveri App and Availability

In this section, the speaker talks about the Reveri app and its availability. They mention that the app is currently available for Apple devices and will soon be available for Android as well.

• The Reveri app provides interactive support for learning and practicing self-hypnosis.

• The speaker acknowledges that the Android version of the app is not currently available but assures that it is on their agenda.

Hypnosis for Dealing with Obsessive Thoughts

In this section, the speaker addresses whether hypnosis can be used to deal with obsessive thoughts. They mention that some highly obsessional individuals may not be very hypnotizable due to their tendency to overcontrol their thoughts.

• Highly obsessional individuals who are constantly evaluating rather than experiencing may not respond well to hypnosis.

• Overcontrolling thoughts can hinder the effectiveness of hypnosis techniques.

Balancing Evaluation and Experience

In this section, the speaker discusses finding a balance between evaluation and experience. They share an example of someone who listens to black box recordings from airplane accidents as part of their profession.

• The individual's profession involves accident prevention and handling.

• The speaker highlights the importance of striking a balance between evaluation and experiencing emotions in extreme situations.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses how individuals with OCD may have a lower hypnotizability and are less likely to respond to self-hypnotic approaches. Superstitions are also mentioned as being more common in highly hypnotizable individuals.

Hypnotizability and OCD

• People with OCD tend to be less hypnotizable and are less likely to engage in self-hypnosis.

• The evaluative component of the brain overrides the experiential one in individuals with OCD, leading to behaviors like excessive checking.

• Self-hypnotic approaches may not be effective for treating OCD due to low hypnotizability.

Superstitions

• Highly hypnotizable individuals may get caught up in superstitions where imagination supplants reality.

• Learning to see superstitions from a different point of view could potentially help reduce their impact.

New Section

In this section, the speaker shares a personal experience of developing a superstition during college and highlights how these irrational beliefs can be challenging to break.

Personal Experience with Superstition

• The speaker developed a habit of knocking on wood for good luck, which became a reflexive behavior.

• Watching a video about rats exhibiting unrelated behaviors before performing tasks helped the speaker realize the irrationality of their own superstition.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses how certain motor behaviors can become associated with desired outcomes and explains how they broke their own superstition by practicing response prevention.

Motor Behaviors and Desired Outcomes

• Incorporating unrelated motor behaviors before an action can lead our minds to believe they are necessary for achieving desired outcomes.

• The speaker broke their superstition by forcing themselves not to engage in the behavior for about a week, eventually realizing its ridiculousness.

New Section

In this section, the speaker explores the potential utility of hypnosis for various conditions such as stress reduction, phobias, pain, ADHD, and OCD. The importance of hypnotizability in determining the effectiveness of hypnosis is also discussed.

Utility of Hypnosis

• Hypnosis may be beneficial for stress reduction, phobias, and possibly pain management.

• The effectiveness of hypnosis for conditions like ADHD and OCD depends on an individual's hypnotizability.

• A study on metastatic breast cancer patients showed that hypnotizability is a key variable in determining outcomes.

New Section

In this section, the speaker explains what hypnotizability is and how it is evaluated using the hypnotic conduction profile test. The Spiegel Eye-Roll Test is mentioned as a method to assess hypnotizability.

Understanding Hypnotizability

• Hypnotizability refers to an individual's capacity to have hypnotic experiences.

• The hypnotic conduction profile test provides a structured experience to evaluate an individual's hypnotic capacity.

• Traditional methods involving various techniques are less effective in assessing hypnotizability compared to the more structured approach.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses how childhood is a peak period of high hypnotizability and emphasizes the importance of playfulness and enjoyment during that stage.

Childhood Hypnotizability

• Children between 6 to 11 years old are highly susceptible to hypnosis due to their playful nature.

• Childhood is characterized by enjoyment in learning and everything being fun.

• As children develop a more adult cognitive framework with abstract concepts, their level of hypnotizability may decrease.

New Section

In this section, the speaker highlights the stability of hypnotizability over time and shares findings from a study that tracked students' hypnotizability over a 25-year interval.

Stability of Hypnotizability

• Hypnotizability becomes fixed by early adulthood, with little change occurring after the early 20s.

• A study conducted at Stanford showed a high test-retest correlation in hypnotizability scores over a 25-year period.

• Factors influencing hypnotizability and its stability are not fully understood.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses how hypnotizability levels can influence treatment approaches and mentions alternative options for individuals with low to moderate hypnotizability.

Treatment Approaches Based on Hypnotizability

• Individuals with low or moderate hypnotizability may require alternative treatment approaches such as medication, systematic desensitization, or mindfulness.

Eye Roll Test and Hypnotizability

In this section, the speaker discusses the eye roll test and its relationship to hypnotizability. They share anecdotes about patients who had pseudo epileptic seizures and a rigid obsessional businessman. The speaker also explains the correlation between eye movements and levels of consciousness.

Eye Fixation Induction

• The speaker's father used an eye fixation induction technique during hypnosis.

• One patient had hysterical seizures, which were not real epileptic seizures but pseudo epileptic seizures.

• The patient's husband had to be nearby in case she started having a seizure.

• When the patient looked up, her eyes would roll back, and she would start seizing.

• The speaker's father taught her to have controlled seizures through hypnosis.

Spiegel Eye-Roll Test

• The speaker's father noticed a correlation between the capacity to keep one's eyes up while closing them and hypnotizability.

• The Spiegel Eye-Roll Test involves looking up at the ceiling, then closing the eyelids while keeping the eyes open.

• If the eyes roll back and only sclera (white part) is visible, it indicates high or moderate hypnotizability.

• If the eyes move down and iris (colored part) is visible as the eyes close, it indicates lower hypnotizability.

Eye Movements and Levels of Consciousness

• Eye movements are related to levels of consciousness.

• Closing our eyes during sleep triggers rapid eye movement when we dream.

• Drugs that affect consciousness can also impact eye movements, such as dilating or constricting pupils.

• Looking up inside with closed eyes may activate a "third eye" sensation due to our visual nature as humans.

Visual Boundaries and Aggregation

In this section, the speaker discusses how visual boundaries and aggregation play a role in human behavior. They mention the positioning of eyes, gathering tendencies, and the calming effect of vistas.

Visual Boundaries and Human Behavior

• Predator animals have eyes in the front of their heads for detailed vision of prey.

• Prey animals like deer have eyes on the sides of their heads to detect threats from a wider range.

• Humans are attracted to physical situations that provide protection at the back while offering a broad vision of potential threats.

• People tend to gather in locations with panoramic views and visual boundaries.

Importance of Vistas

• Vistas, or scenic spots, are attractive to humans due to their calming effect.

• The positioning of scenic spots is often based on people's natural tendency to aggregate there.

• Visual boundaries and panoramas contribute to the appeal and popularity of certain locations.

The Eyes and Cranial Nerves

This section discusses the eyes as part of the central nervous system and their connection to cranial nerves.

Anatomy of the Eyes

• The eyes are two pieces of the central nervous system located outside the cranial vault.

• They are controlled by cranial nerves, specifically nerves three, four, and six.

• Contradictory activity occurs when looking up (controlled by one set of cranial nerves) and closing the eyelids (controlled by another cranial nerve).

Unusual Eye Movements

• Closing your eyes activates the facial nerve (cranial nerve 7), which relaxes the muscles responsible for upward eye movement.

• This contradicts the usual pattern of eye movements and can be compared to rubbing your tummy while patting your head.

• These unusual eye movements have been clinically useful in tests like The Spiegel Eye-Roll Test.

Closing Eyes and Turning Inward

This section explores the significance of closing our eyes and turning inward.

Closing Eyes for Resting Alertness

• Normally, closing our eyes indicates going to sleep and not being concerned about external stimuli.

• However, in certain situations like meditation or maintaining resting alertness, closing our eyes signals a shift in focus from external to internal awareness.

Hypnotizability and Self-Hypnosis

This section discusses hypnotizability and whether repeated use of self-hypnosis or clinical hypnosis can increase it.

Hypnotizability Levels

• About two-thirds of people can be hypnotized to varying degrees.

• Within this group, approximately 15% fall into the highly hypnotizable category.

Increasing Hypnotizability

• Repeated use of self-hypnosis or clinical hypnosis may slightly increase hypnotizability.

• However, the effort to significantly increase hypnotizability is not worth it compared to addressing the specific problem at hand.

EMDR and Eye Movements

This section explores Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing (EMDR) and its potential benefits.

Understanding EMDR

• EMDR involves lateralized eye movements and has been used in trauma-related treatments.

• It combines elements of hypnosis with exposure-based therapies.

• Studies have shown that the lateral eye movement component of EMDR does not add significant benefits beyond other treatment approaches.

Hypnosis in EMDR

This section discusses the presence of hypnosis in EMDR and its effectiveness.

Hypnosis in EMDR

• There is a significant amount of hypnosis involved in EMDR.

• Combining hypnosis with exposure-based treatments can be effective for trauma-related issues.

EMDR as Exposure-Based Therapy for Trauma

In this section, the speaker discusses EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) as a form of exposure-based therapy for trauma. They mention that EMDR is not necessarily related to rapid eye movement sleep and that the eye movements involved in EMDR are a way of sitting down and confronting trauma.

Understanding EMDR

• EMDR is considered another form of exposure-based therapy for trauma.

• It does not have to do with rapid eye movement sleep.

• The eye movements used in EMDR are a means of confronting trauma rather than the main focus.

Simplistic Approach

• Initially, there was an overly simplistic understanding of brain physiology in relation to EMDR.

• Some people claimed that just one session of EMDR could desensitize individuals, but this has been proven untrue.

• While some individuals have found help through EMDR, it is often necessary to undergo multiple sessions.

Suppression of Amygdala Activity

• The speaker mentions Allen Hobson's research on sleep and dreams, highlighting the similarities between dream states and hallucinations.

• Hobson pointed out that entering a parasympathetic state is crucial for falling asleep, which involves suppressing sympathetic nervous system activity.

• Dreams exhibit consistency in affect despite changes in stories or images.

• Lateral eye movement may suppress amygdala activity during dreams, preventing intrusions of fear and anger.

Hypnosis and Regulating Affect

This section explores the potential incorporation of hypnosis elements in EMDR. The discussion also touches upon regulating affect and how getting close to phobias or traumas can lead to rewiring responses.

Hypnosis and Lateralized Eye Movements

• The lateralized eye movements in EMDR may incorporate elements of hypnosis.

• These eye movements, possibly by suppressing amygdala activity, could induce a more parasympathetic calm state.

• This suggests that EMDR might be a form of pseudo-hypnosis combined with exposure therapy.

Getting Close to Trauma

• The speaker emphasizes the importance of getting close to phobias or traumas as a means of re-experiencing them and adjusting emotional responses.

• This approach is seen as a hallmark of various treatments for overcoming difficulties.

• It is noted that many people nowadays tend to avoid anything that upsets them, but this can contribute to increased anxiety and stress.

Deliberate Self Exposure and Adjusting Emotional Response

This section delves into the concept of deliberate self-exposure in therapeutic approaches. It highlights the significance of confronting trauma directly and readjusting emotional responses.

Deliberate Self Exposure

• Deliberate self-exposure involves actively deciding to confront trauma, pain, insomnia, or any other challenging experiences.

• By facing these difficulties head-on, individuals have an opportunity to readjust their emotional responses.

Functionality in Daily Life

• Being able to function effectively in daily life while dealing with trauma is crucial.

• The speaker acknowledges the challenges of balancing personal healing with work and social interactions.

Seeking Help

• If access to professional clinicians is limited, individuals can consider carrying these thoughts and ideas on their own.

• While apps like Reveri offer approaches for dealing with such issues, it's important to avoid reactivating painful experiences without guidance.

Taking Control and Trigger Warnings

This section discusses taking control of accessing traumatic memories and the speaker's perspective on trigger warnings.

Taking Control

• It is important to feel in control when accessing traumatic memories.

• Defining what happened on one's own terms can be empowering.

Trigger Warnings

• The speaker expresses skepticism towards trigger warnings, suggesting that society may be overly concerned with avoiding upsetting content.

• They mention that exposure to distressing material is prevalent in media, such as movies and television shows.

Handling Stress and Trauma

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of how we handle stress and trauma in our lives. They emphasize the need to understand and control our reactions to stressful situations, rather than avoiding them. The speaker also mentions studies on stress inoculation and the benefits of exposure to stress in building resilience.

Importance of Handling Stress

• It's not about avoiding upsetting situations but about how we handle them.

• Thinking about problems in a way that leads to better understanding and control.

• Stressful experiences are a part of life that we can't avoid.

Stress Inoculation

• Studies show that exposure to stress can help build resilience.

• Separating baby monkeys from their mothers for a short period and then reuniting them helps them handle stress better later on.

• Mere exposure to trauma or stress is a natural part of living.

Building Resilience

• College students should not be treated as fragile individuals when discussing sensitive topics like sexual assault.

• We need to develop our ability to recognize and manage stress.

• Facing challenges and finding strategies for dealing with them makes us stronger individuals.

Mind-body Connection

This section explores the mind-body connection and how it relates to managing daily life. The speaker discusses hypnosis as an example where the mind-body connection can be both unified and uncoupled based on specific goals. They highlight the importance of viewing the brain as a tool and using body signals as tools for understanding ourselves.

Understanding Mind-body Connection

• Our brain is a tool, just like our body's signals, helping us understand what's happening around us.

• Hypnosis demonstrates both unifying and uncoupling aspects of the mind-body connection.

• Pain is an example where attention and categorization can modify our perception of it.

Navigating Daily Life

• There is no absolute control over the mind-body connection, but we can strive for more control.

• Viewing an interpersonal problem or threat as an opportunity to take action can make a difference.

• Processing challenges with a deeper understanding and seeing them as opportunities for growth.

Conceptualizing Mind-body

This section delves further into how to conceptualize the mind-body connection in daily life. The speaker compares it to driving a car, where optimal speed depends on the situation. They suggest thinking of the brain and body signals as tools that help us understand what matters and manage our experiences.

Mind-body as Tools

• The brain and body signals are tools for understanding the world, our needs, and what's important.

• Hypnosis exemplifies pushing the mind-body connection to regulate pain.

• Pain signals should be categorized based on their meaning and context.

Blending Receptivity and Active Response

• Viewing interpersonal problems or threats as opportunities for influence and action.

• Processing challenges with a deeper understanding while taking proactive steps to address them.

• Realistically enhancing control over situations without denying their existence.

Managing Emotional Pain

This section focuses on managing emotional pain, particularly grief. The speaker shares insights on how individuals can approach grief by acknowledging its presence while also finding ways to cope with it. They highlight the importance of recognizing personal limitations when providing advice on dealing with grief.

Acknowledging Grief

• Grief is challenging to overcome but not impossible.

• Recognizing personal limitations when offering advice on dealing with grief.

Understanding Grief and Dealing with Loss

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of grief as a natural and necessary stage of life. They explain that grief rituals help individuals comprehend the incomprehensible loss they have experienced. The speaker also emphasizes the need to acknowledge both the pain of loss and what the person has gained from their relationship with the deceased.

View of Psychiatry on Grief

• Grief is considered an important and necessary stage of life.

• Grief rituals, such as burials and memorials, help individuals comprehend their loss.

• It is essential to realize that life will continue without the loved one.

• The speaker encourages individuals to reflect on what they have gained from their relationship with the deceased.

Expressing Negative Emotion in Grieving Process

This section focuses on expressing negative emotions during grief. The speaker shares insights from a study conducted on support groups for women with advanced breast cancer. They found that expressing negative emotions can help reduce anxiety and depression over time.

• Expressing negative emotion in the long run helps people be less anxious and depressed.

• The study conducted on support groups for women with advanced breast cancer showed that talking about serious issues did not worsen participants' mood.

• Facing a loss, living with associated emotions, and recognizing what one has gained from the relationship can be helpful in the grieving process.

Hypnosis for Children

This section explores using hypnosis techniques for children. The speaker explains that children can be safely hypnotized or guided through self-hypnosis to manage fear, pain, or anxiety in medical procedures like shots or blood draws.

• Children can be effectively hypnotized or guided through self-hypnosis.

• Pediatricians often use hypnosis to help children focus on something else during medical procedures.

• Hypnosis can be used by dentists to alleviate fear and pain in children.

• Randomized trials have shown that hypnosis is effective in reducing anxiety and pain in children undergoing difficult medical procedures.

Hypnosis for Medical Imaging Procedures

This section discusses the use of hypnosis techniques for children undergoing medical imaging procedures. The speaker shares insights from a randomized trial conducted at a children's hospital, where self-hypnosis training was provided to make the imaging process easier for the children.

• Self-hypnosis training helped children undergoing medical imaging procedures to be more relaxed and cooperative.

• Children who received self-hypnosis training had shorter procedure times compared to those who did not receive it.

• Hypnosis can effectively reduce anxiety and pain in children during challenging medical procedures.

Hypnosis for Couples Therapy

This section briefly touches upon the possibility of using hypnosis techniques for couples therapy. The speaker mentions that both individuals need to be hypnotizable, but further details are not provided.

• Hypnosis can potentially be used for couples therapy if both individuals are hypnotizable.

• No specific information or examples are given regarding the application of hypnosis in couples therapy.

The Role of Hypnosis in Treating Depression

In this section, the discussion revolves around the use of hypnosis in treating depression and the potential benefits of coordinated hypnosis.

Coordinated Hypnosis for Depression Treatment

• Hypnosis can be used to treat depression by involving not only the depressed individual but also their non-depressed family members.

• Coordinated hypnosis aims to create a shared social experience that brings out the best in people's abilities.

Combining Hypnosis with Drug Therapies

• There is limited evidence on combining hypnosis with drug therapies during hypnotic episodes.

• Some studies suggest that certain medications, such as benzodiazepines, may enhance or inhibit hypnotic activity depending on the level of anxiety.

The Power of Breathing and its Role in Hypnosis

This section explores the importance of breathing patterns and respiration in inducing hypnosis and shifting brain states.

Breathing Patterns and Brain States

• Different breathing patterns can influence sympathetic arousal or decrease it.

• Cyclic sighing, characterized by longer exhaling than inhaling, may induce parasympathetic activity and promote relaxation.

• Deep breaths followed by slow exhales are often incorporated into hypnotic inductions to enhance relaxation.

Conscious and Unconscious Control of Breathing

• Breathing is an interesting phenomenon as it lies at the edge between conscious and unconscious control.

• It can be modulated consciously to achieve desired changes in internal states.

• Controlling breathing serves as a way to demonstrate greater control over one's internal state, making it a valuable tool for enhancing hypnosis.

Key Elements of Hypnosis

This section highlights the key elements of hypnosis, including breathing, vision, and bodily states.

Key Elements of Hypnosis

• Breathing patterns play a crucial role in inducing hypnosis and shifting brain states.

• Vision can be intentionally altered to change perception during hypnosis.

• Physical relaxation is typically associated with hypnosis, but peak performance can also be achieved through hypnosis in various domains, including athletics.

Hypnotic States and Performance

In this section, the discussion revolves around hypnotic states and their impact on performance in various domains such as music, sports, and public speaking.

Hypnotic States in Music and Athletics

• Musicians and athletes often experience a hypnotic-like state during peak performance.

• Classical pianists, for example, describe being in a state where they are not consciously thinking about their finger movements but rather focusing on the desired tone emanating from the instrument.

• Athletes also perform at their best when they are "flowing" with the activity rather than engaging in step-by-step conscious thinking.

Accessing Hypnosis through Reveri

• Reveri is an app designed for self-hypnosis that can be accessed through reveri.com or downloaded from the app store.

• It offers a way for individuals to explore hypnosis and its potential benefits.

Finding Well-Trained Hypnotists

• The Society for Clinical and Experimental Hypnosis (SCEH) and the American Society for Clinical Hypnosis provide referral services to help individuals find well-trained hypnotists.

• It is recommended to seek professionals who are licensed and trained in their primary discipline (e.g., psychiatry, psychology, medicine, dentistry) with additional training and interest in using hypnosis.

Closing Remarks

The closing remarks express gratitude for the insightful discussion on hypnosis. Information about accessing resources related to hypnosis is provided along with appreciation for Dr. David Spiegel's work.

Gratitude and Collaboration

• The host expresses gratitude to Dr. David Spiegel for sharing his knowledge on hypnosis.

• They express interest in future collaborations and highlight the value of working together to combine knowledge from different perspectives.

Accessing Hypnosis Resources

• The video of Dr. Spiegel hypnotizing the host can be found on the Huberman Lab Clips channel on YouTube.

• The Reveri app, designed by Dr. Spiegel and colleagues, can be accessed at reveri.com for self-hypnosis, along with scientific studies supporting its use.

Supporting the Podcast

• Viewers are encouraged to subscribe to the podcast's YouTube channel and leave comments, feedback, and suggestions for future guests.

• Subscribing to the podcast on Apple and Spotify platforms is also recommended.

• Sponsors mentioned at the beginning of each episode provide support for the podcast.

• Patreon support is available at patreon.com/andrewhuberman.

Thorne Supplements Partnership

• Thorne Supplements are recommended due to their high-quality ingredients and precision in labeling.

• A discount of 20% off Thorne supplements is available at thorne.com/u/huberman.

Conclusion

Dr. David Spiegel Discussion

In this section, Dr. David Spiegel discusses his work and the content he covers on his social media channels.

Dr. David Spiegel's Social Media Channels

• Dr. David Spiegel can be found on both Instagram and Twitter under the username "hubermanlab".

• Instagram

• Twitter

Content Covered on Social Media Channels

• On these channels, Dr. David Spiegel covers science and science-related tools.

• Some of the content overlaps with the topics discussed in this podcast, while other content is unique.

• The social media channels provide additional valuable information beyond what is covered in the podcast.

Once again, thank you for joining me for my discussion with Dr. David Spiegel.