Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, more | Phyl Terry

Name: Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, more | Phyl Terry
Uploaded: 2024-09-12T11:00:33.000Z
Duration: 3 h 42 min 30 s

Job Search Strategies: Finding Your Fit

The Importance of Focus in Job Searching

When searching for a job, it's crucial to have a focused approach rather than a broad one. This mirrors the concept of product market fit, emphasizing the need for clarity and specificity.

Many individuals fail to define what they want or don't want in their job search, leading to ineffective strategies. A more targeted approach can yield better results.

Empowerment Through Community

Phyl Terry emphasizes the importance of taking charge during interviews and negotiations, advocating for a mindset that plays to win rather than not lose.

Phyl Terry is introduced as an influential figure in job searching methodologies, having authored "Never Search Alone" and worked with major companies like Apple and Microsoft.

Practical Tips for Job Seekers

The episode aims to provide actionable tips for those struggling to find fulfilling jobs, promising valuable insights from years of experience in Silicon Valley.

The discussion will focus on practical methods developed over 25 years that incorporate a product lens into the job search process.

Understanding Job Search Councils

Phyl introduces the concept of Job Search Councils—support groups consisting of six to eight job seekers who help each other navigate their job searches.

These councils are rooted in human psychology; by fostering vulnerability and openness among anxious individuals, they transform fear into motivation and accountability.

Historical Context and Personal Insights

Phyl shares his personal history with councils dating back over four decades, highlighting how these support systems have been effective even during tough economic times.

The Impact of Community Support on Career Growth

Personal Experiences and Influences

The speaker reflects on the challenges faced by a single middle-aged woman (their mother) seeking employment in Los Angeles during the mid-'70s, emphasizing the importance of her support group.

The speaker dedicates their book to their mother and highlights the community built around shared experiences and support.

Sidebar: A Platform for Professional Growth

Introduction of Sidebar, a platform designed for senior tech professionals to connect with peers for career advice and support, enhancing professional growth.

Sidebar's effectiveness is underscored by 93% of members reporting significant positive changes in their careers after joining.

Structure and Functionality of Peer Groups

Over 2,000 peer councils have been launched through Sidebar, which are completely free and volunteer-driven, providing extensive resources for job seekers.

The speaker discusses funding sources for these councils, noting that book sales contribute significantly to operational costs.

Joining the Councils: Process Overview

Interested individuals can apply at phyl.org; applicants are categorized as "slow seekers" or "fast seekers" based on their employment status.

Moderators play a crucial role in each council; volunteering as a moderator offers faster matching and additional training benefits.

Meeting Structure and Expectations

New members undergo an orientation program that prepares them for initial meetings focused on building trust among participants.

Impact of Job Search Councils and Community Support

The Role of Job Search Councils

The speaker discusses the ongoing support provided by job search councils until individuals secure employment, highlighting their importance in the job search process.

Acknowledges the numerous success stories shared by individuals who attribute their job placements to participation in these councils and related resources.

Personal Stories and Testimonials

The speaker mentions receiving an influx of personal success stories after announcing their podcast appearance on LinkedIn, indicating a strong community response.

Justin Meats, a chief product officer, shares his positive experience with applying product management principles to career development through the council's framework.

Emotional Balance in Job Searching

Emphasizes that managing emotional balance is crucial during job searches; many candidates struggle with fear and anxiety which can hinder progress.

Highlights the concept of an "emotional balance sheet," where job seekers often find themselves with more liabilities than assets due to negative feelings associated with unemployment.

Community Support and Vulnerability

Discusses how creating an environment of openness and vulnerability within councils fosters significant support among members, enhancing collective resilience.

Reinforces that while some may feel they can manage alone, joining a group provides accountability and motivation that are essential for navigating tough times.

Disruption of Traditional Job Search Methods

The speaker acknowledges skepticism about group involvement but argues for its benefits based on real-life examples from participants who found unexpected value in community engagement.

Shares a story about a couple where one partner initially resisted joining a council but later experienced profound trust and motivation through participation.

Building a Safety Net for Job Seekers

Describes the mission of creating a private safety net for those laid off or let go, emphasizing innovation in job searching beyond traditional government support systems.

Creative Destruction and Its Implications

Understanding Creative Destruction

Creative destruction is a fundamental economic concept in capitalism, where new products and services replace older ones, leading to innovation and growth.

This dynamic has contributed to the economy growing sixfold over the last century, resulting in a multi-trillion dollar economy. However, it also creates anxiety for workers due to job displacement.

The failure of the Soviet Union's planned economy illustrates the importance of creative destruction; without it, there was no innovation, leading to economic collapse.

Addressing Negative Consequences

While celebrating creative destruction's benefits, it's crucial to address its negative impacts on individuals affected by job loss or market changes.

The concept of "candidate market fit" becomes vital during economic downturns as job seekers must navigate a competitive marketplace with varying supply and demand dynamics.

Candidate Market Fit: A Job Search Strategy

Importance of Candidate Market Fit

In today's tech landscape, candidates may find their roles diminished due to an influx of qualified applicants from layoffs; understanding this shift is essential for effective job searching.

Recognizing that market conditions affect candidate opportunities helps alleviate personal feelings of inadequacy during job searches.

Strategic Job Searching

A radical first step for job seekers is identifying what they want versus what they don't want in their next role; this clarity can streamline their search process.

The Mnookin two-pager method encourages candidates to articulate their preferences collaboratively within support groups or councils.

Iterative Process in Job Searching

Collaborative Learning Environment

Sharing insights about likes and dislikes among peers fosters a learning environment that enhances individual understanding of personal career goals.

Listening Tour: Understanding Market Fit

The Importance of Market Research

The speaker emphasizes the need to understand market demands alongside personal aspirations, highlighting the importance of gathering insights from trusted colleagues and friends regarding one's fit in current market conditions.

Overcoming Fear of Feedback

Many individuals hesitate to conduct a "listening tour" due to fear of negative feedback. The speaker introduces a "golden question" that encourages open dialogue: "If you were in my shoes, how would you approach this?"

Benefits of Conducting a Listening Tour

Participants often find that people are eager to help when approached thoughtfully. This process not only provides valuable feedback but also fosters relationships where others become invested in your success.

Structured Conversations for Insight

The speaker outlines three types of structured conversations for the listening tour:

Reverse Exit Interviews: Asking former colleagues about strengths and fit.

Broader Network Engagement: Utilizing the golden question with wider contacts.

Recruiter Insights: Seeking advice from recruiters rather than directly asking for jobs.

Building Relationships with Recruiters

Establishing rapport with recruiters is crucial. Engaging them even when not actively job searching can lead to beneficial networking opportunities later on.

Maximizing Outcomes from Your Listening Tour

Refining Your Approach

The intent behind conducting these exercises is twofold: understanding market needs and refining personal pitches based on honest feedback received during discussions.

Relationship Building as a Key Benefit

By engaging thoughtfully, individuals can activate their networks effectively. Instead of generic job inquiries, personalized questions encourage deeper connections and potential job leads.

Creating a Candidate Market Fit Statement

After completing the listening tour, participants should develop a focused candidate market fit statement. This helps clarify their positioning in relation to market demands.

Support During the Process

Candidate Market Fit: Navigating Job Searches

Understanding Feedback and the Role of a Council

Conversations often yield unhelpful feedback, such as being told one is "too poised" or "not poised enough," highlighting the need for a supportive council to interpret this feedback effectively.

When preparing for job searches, it's crucial to have an expansive mindset; however, just like in product development, achieving candidate market fit requires a narrow focus on specific roles and industries.

The Importance of Specificity in Job Searching

A focused approach is essential; using a spear (specific role) rather than a net (broad search) ensures that opportunities are not overlooked.

Being specific about desired roles allows others to think expansively about potential fits; broad statements can lead to being forgotten by those who could help.

Iterative Process of Candidate Market Fit

The iterative nature of defining candidate market fit emphasizes the importance of community support and regular check-ins with one's network during the job search process.

Identifying attributes that define your target role—such as company stage or industry—is critical. Typically, three to four key attributes should be established for clarity.

Communicating Your Candidate Market Fit

After refining your candidate market fit through feedback from your council, it’s important to communicate this clearly on platforms like LinkedIn.

Flexibility is vital as market conditions change rapidly; staying adaptive helps maintain relevance in job searches amidst shifting economic landscapes.

Key Attributes for Defining Roles

Important attributes include company stage, industry type, level of role/function, and cultural fit. These should be articulated simply for easy understanding by others.

Job Market Insights and Candidate Fit

The Startup Landscape

There are currently more job opportunities in startups compared to established tech companies, particularly for product roles. This shift indicates a growing trend in job creation within smaller firms.

While startups offer more opportunities, they may not be suitable for everyone. Individuals should assess their comfort level with startup environments before making a transition.

Navigating Job Searches

Transitioning to any job just to secure income can be challenging; maintaining focus on the desired role is crucial during this process.

A story illustrates the importance of understanding "candidate market fit." An executive from traditional media had to adapt his expectations and accept an individual contributor role at a top streaming company, which ultimately transformed his career.

Understanding Candidate Market Fit

Recognizing what the market demands is essential for success. The executive's realization that he needed to pivot was key in aligning his skills with industry needs.

Another example involves a chief product officer who identified her need for growth by shifting from a leadership position to an individual contributor role in a larger tech firm.

Strategic Career Moves

Sometimes, individuals must adopt a two-step strategy when aiming for higher positions like COO. Starting from a relevant role can provide necessary experience and credibility.

A cautionary tale highlights how pursuing unsuitable roles can lead to wasted time and missed opportunities. The individual interviewed extensively but ended up in a failing company due to misalignment with market realities.

Addressing Ageism and Staying Relevant

Many professionals face challenges related to ageism or being out of touch with current technology trends as they advance in their careers.

Staying close to technological advancements is vital; moving back into an individual contributor role may be necessary for those further away from the technology frontier.

Balancing Realism with Support

Job Search Strategies and Community Support

The Importance of Community in Job Searching

Many job seekers feel isolated, but being part of a community can help alleviate that feeling. It's essential to recognize that the challenges faced are not personal failures but rather reflective of the current job market.

Regularly updating your network is crucial. Sending monthly updates about your job search status keeps connections engaged and informed, which can lead to more opportunities.

A real-life example highlights the importance of communication: a chief product officer learned from his experience that keeping people updated on his job search was vital for support and networking.

Active Engagement in Job Search Councils

To succeed in a challenging job market, it's important to remain active within your job search council. This includes networking consistently and adapting your candidate market fit based on evolving conditions.

Joining a council and collaborating with others can break the cycle of stagnation many face during their searches. Engaging with peers provides motivation and accountability.

Navigating Market Challenges

The current tech market presents unique challenges compared to past downturns like the dot-com crash. Many professionals today have never experienced such difficulties, making it essential to adapt strategies accordingly.

While improvement in the market is expected eventually, immediate focus should be on utilizing available tools and community support for effective job searching.

Candidate Market Fit Insights

Resistance to narrowing down one's candidate market fit is common among job seekers; however, understanding this concept is critical for success in today's competitive landscape.

Real-world examples illustrate how refining one’s candidate market fit led individuals from prolonged unemployment to receiving multiple offers quickly after joining supportive communities.

Resources for Job Seekers

A dedicated resource page will provide templates aimed at helping individuals articulate their candidate market fit effectively without requiring membership in a council.

The initiative behind these free resources stems from a desire to create safety nets amid economic changes, emphasizing accessibility over profit-making motives.

Additional Tactics for Success

How to Succeed in Job Interviews and Negotiations

The Importance of Taking Charge in Interviews

Emphasizes the necessity of being in charge during interviews and negotiations, advocating for a collaborative coaching approach aimed at winning rather than losing.

Introduces the concept of creating a personal job description, referred to as a "job mission with OKRs," which helps candidates clarify their understanding of the role.

Highlights that most job descriptions are inadequate; thus, candidates should privately draft their own expectations regarding accountability and outcomes.

Benefits of Crafting Your Own Job Mission

Discusses how drafting a job mission aids in formulating insightful interview questions that impress hiring managers.

Shares an anecdote from an Amazon senior employee who noted that no candidate had ever presented such a detailed job mission, indicating its potential impact on hiring decisions.

Distinguishing Yourself from Other Candidates

Explains how presenting a well-thought-out job mission can differentiate candidates, potentially leading to better offers and opportunities.

Mentions the common experience of candidates accepting roles that differ significantly from what was initially described, underscoring the importance of clarity.

Setting Up for Successful Negotiations

Advises discussing key aspects like tech debt during negotiations to ensure alignment on priorities before starting the role.

Illustrates through examples how addressing tech debt upfront can lead to successful outcomes and career advancement compared to those who shy away from these discussions.

Conclusion: Preparing for Success

Negotiating Your Value: Strategies for Success

Understanding the Importance of Negotiation

The speaker discusses the significance of negotiating training budgets and how it reflects on one's value within a company, emphasizing that companies appreciate proactive discussions about resources.

Even junior employees can engage in negotiations regarding mentorship and professional development opportunities, framing these requests around achieving agreed-upon objectives (OKRs).

A specific example is given where a request for a $20 million budget to address tech debt illustrates the importance of clearly articulating needs for success rather than vague promises of future savings.

Collaborative Conversations in Negotiation

Engaging in collaborative conversations about team needs and resource allocation can create a positive impression during salary negotiations, indicating alignment with company goals.

The speaker highlights that approaching negotiations as a partnership rather than an adversarial process can lead to better outcomes, countering common fears about losing opportunities.

Setting Up for Success

It’s crucial to identify what you need to succeed before discussing salary; this approach demonstrates initiative and accountability to hiring managers.

The connection between asking for necessary resources and achieving OKRs is emphasized as beneficial not only for the individual but also for the company’s success.

Navigating Salary Discussions

The speaker notes that while there may be less room for negotiation currently due to market conditions, asking for more money remains important.

Statistics indicate that 87% of the time when individuals ask for more money, they receive it. This underscores the importance of being open about compensation expectations during negotiations.

Overcoming Negotiation Anxiety

Many people fear negotiation will jeopardize their job prospects; however, seeking help from job search councils or mentors can alleviate this anxiety and improve outcomes.

Negotiating for Success in Job Interviews

The Importance of Collaborative Conversation

Emphasizes the need for a collaborative conversation during negotiations, focusing on resources and support necessary for success rather than being confrontational.

Suggests that phrasing requests in a low-risk manner can facilitate better communication about salary expectations.

Engaging with Hiring Managers

Recommends discussing needs directly with hiring managers when possible, as they may have more flexibility regarding budget than HR personnel.

Highlights the importance of building good relationships to enhance negotiation outcomes and suggests informal discussions with hiring managers if appropriate.

Preparing for Negotiation

Advises candidates to ask insightful questions and actively listen during interviews, demonstrating initiative and commitment to the role.

Utilizing Customer Insights Tools

Introduces Dovetail, an AI-powered customer insights hub that aids product teams in understanding customer feedback efficiently.

Describes how Dovetail automates qualitative data analysis, providing quick access to key moments and themes from customer interactions.

Reflecting on Support Systems

Encourages individuals to perform a "gratitude house exercise," reflecting on those who have supported them throughout their journey, which can help alleviate feelings of isolation during job searches.

Stresses the importance of recognizing that everyone has received help at various stages in life, reinforcing the idea that no one is truly alone.

Debriefing After Interviews

Urges candidates to conduct debrief sessions post-interview to clarify perceptions of performance and combat imposter syndrome.

Addressing Inner Critic Challenges

Discusses the concept of an inner critic that often distorts self-perception; encourages naming this critic as a strategy for managing negative thoughts.

Emotional Well-Being and the Importance of Asking for Help

Normalizing Emotions in Decision-Making

Discussion on how tennis stars are openly talking about their emotional well-being and therapy, contributing to the normalization of emotions as vital to decision-making.

The concept of "lite therapy" is introduced, emphasizing that while it may not be formal therapy, there are therapeutic aspects involved.

Building Confidence Through Support

The significance of job search councils is highlighted; they help combat anxiety and fear that can undermine confidence during interviews.

A powerful message is shared: individuals who feel worthless due to unemployment should invest time and energy in themselves to recognize their value.

Playing to Win vs. Avoiding Loss

Encouragement is given to take charge and demonstrate personal power rather than merely avoiding failure in professional settings.

The Value of Asking for Help

Personal anecdotes illustrate the importance of asking for help, with a tribute to the speaker's mother who instilled this value early on.

A transformative experience from high school highlights how seeking assistance from teachers and friends was crucial during difficult times.

Effective Strategies for Seeking Assistance

A warning against poorly asking for help is provided; effective requests require preparation and clarity about what support is needed.

Examples are given illustrating ineffective versus effective ways to ask for help, stressing that confidence grows through proper engagement with others.

Counterintuitive Insights on Help-Seeking

Four key insights are shared:

Asking for help signifies confidence rather than weakness.

Asking for Help: A Transformative Skill

The Importance of Seeking Feedback

Marissa's approach to product development highlights the value of seeking feedback before presenting ideas to higher-ups, demonstrating a collaborative culture even in established companies like Google.

When asking for help, framing the request as seeking perspective can make others feel valued and honored, fostering a positive response.

Overcoming Stigmas Around Asking for Help

Asking for help is not a sign of weakness; rather, it signifies independence and growth. It enhances one's reputation instead of harming it.

Personal anecdotes illustrate that many successful individuals initially struggle with asking for help but find it transformative once they embrace this practice.

Learning from Leaders' Experiences

Brad Smith's experience at Intuit serves as a cautionary tale about the consequences of not asking for help, leading to significant financial loss but ultimately resulting in personal growth and success after he learned to seek assistance.

Kenneth Chenault’s rise at American Express exemplifies how asking for guidance can lead to remarkable achievements, including becoming the first African American chairman of a Fortune 50 company.

Data on Help-Seeking Behavior

Research indicates that 85% of senior leaders attribute their success to asking for help, while an equal percentage of junior employees fear doing so due to perceived weakness.

This data underscores the importance of cultivating a culture where seeking assistance is normalized and encouraged among all levels within an organization.

Practical Examples of Asking for Help

Common scenarios include requesting feedback on emails or project struggles. These small acts can significantly enhance communication effectiveness and project outcomes.

Defining reality through conversations with various stakeholders helps leaders gain diverse perspectives, which is crucial in decision-making processes.

Career Development Strategies

Importance of Structured Career Conversations

Emphasizes the need for structured calls, such as a "first 90 days call," to clarify focus areas in new roles.

Suggests conducting "career evolution calls" with VPs of product to understand the transition from director to VP roles.

Seeking Guidance and Building Relationships

Highlights the value of peer coaching within communities for career advancement.

Shares an anecdote about Bradley Horowitz's initial intimidation at Google and his weekly meetings with influential leaders like Jonathan Rosenberg and Sundar Pichai.

Emotional Intelligence in Asking for Help

Advises using emotional intelligence when seeking help, ensuring that requests are directed towards trustworthy individuals.

Discusses how building rapport with colleagues can facilitate open conversations about shared experiences and challenges.

Vulnerability as a Strength

Illustrates how asking vulnerable questions can foster trust and understanding within professional relationships.

Describes Horowitz's candid inquiry about Sundar Pichai’s role, which was received positively due to their established trust.

Navigating Workplace Politics

Stresses the importance of being politically aware while maintaining authenticity in workplace interactions.

Mentions strategies for mapping allies and blockers in one's career path, hinting at concepts from an upcoming book titled "Never Lead Alone."

Effective Techniques for Requesting Assistance

Offers insights on how to approach others for help effectively by considering the nature of relationships involved.

Job Search Insights and Networking Strategies

The Importance of Honest Communication in Networking

Emphasizes the need for clear communication when asking for favors, suggesting a direct approach: "Lenny, I have a favor to ask. Would you be willing to do this?"

Discusses the common occurrence of cold introductions without prior consent, noting that these often lead to unproductive connections.

Highlights the importance of honesty in networking efforts, as many people feel pressured to help without being transparent about their intentions.

Navigating Job Search Anxiety

Asks for final thoughts on job hunting and seeking help, indicating a desire for valuable takeaways.

Shares insights from a book launch event where it was noted that everyone experiences anxiety during job searches; it's a universal feeling tied to systemic instability.

Compares the book's guidance to a cookbook, stressing that practical experience (like joining a Job Search Council) is essential for understanding and overcoming feelings of isolation.

Building Community Support Systems

Reflects on personal projects aimed at avoiding traditional employment structures while creating meaningful work.

Introduces product councils started 21 years ago as safe spaces for professionals to connect without commercial pressures.

Focus on Inclusivity in Professional Development

Describes how product councils cater not only to senior roles but also support new managers and underrepresented groups in tech.

Mentions ongoing initiatives focused on community building among diverse groups within product management.

Lifelong Learning and Reading Culture

Books as Tools for Thinking

Importance of Reading for Product Leaders

Lenny emphasizes that books are essential tools for thinking and encourages more reading among product leaders. He has a collection of book recommendations available on his Lenny page.

He runs the Reading Odyssey, a program connecting scholars and readers at Harvard to promote lifelong learning and curiosity.

Business Literacy Program

Lenny discusses a business literacy program inspired by Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger, aimed at high school students. It is taught by senior executives from venture capital firms and hedge funds.

The program operates on a pro bono basis with minimal fees for middle-class families, ensuring accessibility for all students.

The Need for Mentorship

Lenny highlights the lack of mentorship in the community, noting that 95% of senior product leaders do not have mentors.

He introduces the concept of "dead or distant mentors," sharing how he considers figures like Warren Buffett and Steve Jobs as his mentors despite not having direct contact with them.

Learning from Steve Jobs

Key Lessons from Jobs' Leadership

Lenny recounts Steve Jobs' return to Apple in 1997 when he was appointed interim CEO during a challenging time.

He quotes Jobs’ advice: “You have to start with the customer, not with the technology,” emphasizing its significance in product development.

The Role of Art in Product Design

Lenny shares that Jobs believed in the power of art to inspire design thinking. This led him to create Slow Art Day, an initiative encouraging people to appreciate art slowly.

He offers free resources related to Slow Art Day for podcast listeners interested in enhancing their visual literacy through museum visits.

Book Recommendations and Learning Strategies