Ernest Lee Thomas on "What's Happening", Drug Addiction, Muhammad Ali, Bill Cosby (Full Interview)

Ernest Thomas: From Gary, Indiana to Hollywood Fame

Early Life and Family Background

• Ernest Thomas introduces himself as a well-known actor, recognized for his roles in "What's Happening" and "Everybody Hates Chris."

• He shares that he was born in Gary, Indiana, and discusses the circumstances surrounding his birth, including his mother's attempt to abort him.

• His mother had an affair with William Berry while married to Robert Thomas; this complicated family dynamic shaped his early life.

• Ernest reflects on how he learned about his true parentage later in life and expresses resentment towards not knowing his father sooner.

• He describes having a rough childhood marked by bullying due to socioeconomic status and being raised in a challenging environment.

Experiences of Bullying and Faith

• Growing up on welfare led to bullying at school; he faced ridicule for wearing hand-me-down clothes and being thin.

• Despite the challenges, Ernest found solace in his faith; he credits Christianity for helping him cope with adversity.

• He recounts experiences of racial discrimination during trips to the South, emphasizing the importance of respect towards white individuals due to historical context.

• As an asthmatic child, he faced additional struggles but maintained resilience through faith and community support.

• The lynching of Emmett Till profoundly impacted him; it served as a stark reminder of racial violence that shaped his upbringing.

Impact of Historical Events

• Ernest vividly remembers seeing images of Emmett Till's body, which were used by his family as cautionary tales against racism.

The Impact of Bullying and Racism on Personal Development

Early Experiences with Bullying

• The speaker discusses skipping school due to bullying, indicating a significant impact on their childhood.

• At age 11, the speaker's mother entered a relationship with JC, who was abusive towards her from the start.

• The speaker reflects on colorism in their mother's choice of partners, highlighting societal pressures regarding skin tone.

Family Dynamics and Violence

• A cousin intervened during an abusive incident involving JC, showcasing familial loyalty and protection.

• After this intervention, JC and the speaker's mother developed a close bond, complicating family dynamics.

Racial Tensions in Education

• Transitioning to an all-white high school (Emerson High School), the speaker faced overt racism from peers and parents.

• White students displayed hostility through signs like "Go back to Africa," illustrating systemic racism within educational settings.

Higher Education Challenges

• In college at Indiana State University, the speaker encountered a sociology professor with Nazi connections who made derogatory remarks about Jews.

• The classroom environment was predominantly white; students remained silent in response to racist comments from the professor.

Coping with Racism

• The professor advised patience regarding racial equality, reflecting a dismissive attitude toward urgent social justice issues.

• A particularly painful experience occurred when the speaker was denied entry into a restaurant due to their race, leading them to wish for whiteness as an escape from discrimination.

Discovering Acting as an Outlet

Acting Journey: From Social Work to Broadway

Early Influences and Education

• The speaker reflects on an acting teacher's encouragement, despite initially pursuing a career in social work.

• Auditioned for "Romeo and Juliet," where the director expressed interest in their performance, yet the speaker remained committed to social work.

• Graduated from Indiana State University with a Bachelor's degree in Sociology and Psychology before pursuing acting further.

• Attended the American Academy of Dramatic Arts in New York City, known for producing many successful actors including Robert Redford and Danny DeVito.

• Despite excelling at the academy, self-doubt persisted among students about their acting abilities.

Breakthrough Moments

• Gained recognition when chosen for a student play by Dan Froedenberger, leading to a significant opportunity with established actors like Robert Guillaume.

• Received positive reviews from notable publications but faced jealousy from peers due to early success in off-Broadway productions.

• Transitioned into Broadway shortly after graduation, landing roles that showcased talent and potential.

Move to Television

• Relocated to Los Angeles aiming for television roles as family members were more familiar with TV than theater.

• Expressed desire to have a TV show role similar to "Preacher Jackson" from "Cooley High," which had already been cast.

• Landed the role of Roger "Raj" Thomas on "What's Happening!!," which was inspired by the film "Cooley High."

Challenges and Successes

• Initially faced setbacks with an unseen pilot called "Cooley High," which was deemed not funny enough by ABC executives despite personal confidence in its potential.

• Experienced feelings of failure after being told the original pilot wasn't suitable but later received news that they would be recast for a new version of the show.

• At 25 years old, played a 16-year-old character successfully due to youthful appearance.

Notable Co-stars

The Evolution of Dance and Personal Stories

The Origins of Pop Locking and Dance Styles

• The speaker reflects on the dance culture of the 1980s, highlighting pop locking as a significant style that originated from influential figures in the community.

• Distinction between East Coast and West Coast dance styles is made; East Coast dancers focused more on acrobatics while West Coast dancers emphasized stylistic standing movements like moonwalking and robot dancing.

• Camelot, a key figure in the dance scene, is credited with starting many popular dance moves. His influence extended to notable dancers like Shabba Doo and Fred Berry.

The Impact of "What's Happening" TV Show

• Discussion about the cast of "What's Happening," including Shirley Hemphill as a waitress and Mabel King, showcasing the diverse talent involved in the show.

• The speaker describes their role in the show, emphasizing their preference for being part of an ensemble rather than claiming sole stardom despite being recognized as a lead actor.

• Reflecting on the success of "What's Happening," which ran for three seasons, bringing joy and recognition after years of obscurity.

Auditioning for Roots: A Missed Opportunity

• The speaker shares their experience auditioning for "Roots," aiming for the role of Kunta Kinte but ultimately losing out to LeVar Burton while still securing another role due to their strong screen test performance.

• They express regret over not keeping their screen test footage, revealing emotional struggles related to missing out on such an iconic role.

Historical Significance of Roots

• Discussion highlights Alex Haley's contribution to Black history through his book "Roots," which brought attention to slavery narratives that had been largely ignored prior.

• Emphasis on how "Roots" was groundbreaking as it was one of the first major productions addressing slavery, capturing widespread viewership during its airing.

Personal Reflections on Family Dynamics

• The conversation shifts towards personal life experiences, particularly regarding family acceptance when discussing sexuality.

Transgender Journey and Family Dynamics

Family Acceptance and Transformation

• The speaker discusses their brother's transformation, highlighting the tension between familial love and disagreement over lifestyle choices.

• After a near-death experience from pneumonia, the brother decided to live authentically as his true self, embracing his identity as transgender.

• The brother changed his name to Toni Sue Farrell after undergoing a significant ceremony that marked this transition.

Struggles with Health and Substance Abuse

• Despite initially appearing healthy, Toni struggled with substance abuse which ultimately contributed to his health decline.

• The family grappled with feelings of blame regarding Toni's sudden death due to complications from AIDS before effective treatments were available.

Celebrity Encounters and Lifestyle Changes

• A notable encounter with Chaka Khan is recounted, illustrating the glamorous yet tumultuous lifestyle surrounding the speaker during their peak fame.

• Following the cancellation of their hit show in 1979, the speaker experienced an identity crisis leading to depression.

Descent into Addiction

• The speaker describes how they turned to drugs like cocaine and crack following the show's cancellation, marking a downward spiral in their life.

• They reflect on the dual nature of crack cocaine—initial euphoria followed by deep emotional turmoil and negative memories resurfacing.

Recovery Attempts Amidst Challenges

• After losing everything, including their home, the speaker moved back in with their sister while trying to regain control over their life through prayer and spirituality.

Muhammad Ali's Impact and Personal Connection

Staying at the YMCA

• The speaker recounts staying at the YMCA, describing it as a step above a homeless shelter with basic accommodations.

• A pivotal moment occurs when Muhammad Ali is mentioned as someone who could help the speaker, emphasizing the importance of prayer and visualization in achieving goals.

Meeting Muhammad Ali

• After visualizing his connection with Ali, the speaker unexpectedly encounters him at a magic shop, highlighting the power of belief and intention.

• The interaction reveals Ali's charismatic presence; he recognizes the speaker and engages warmly, showcasing his approachable nature.

Receiving Support from Ali

• During their meeting, Ali offers his phone number for assistance, but the speaker hesitates to accept help due to pride.

• Eventually, after some time reflecting on humility, the speaker considers accepting an invitation to stay at Ali's mansion but opts for alternative accommodations instead.

Financial Assistance and Friendship

• Muhammad Ali generously covers expenses such as eye surgery for the speaker, illustrating his commitment to helping others based on past experiences of receiving support himself.

• Their relationship deepens as they connect over shared values; both recognize their cultural backgrounds—Ali being a Muslim—and bond over this commonality.

Insights into Ali’s Life

• The conversation shifts to discussing how their friendship evolved over time; they maintained contact even after initial meetings.

Understanding the Legacy of Muhammad Ali

The Impact of Parkinson's Disease on Ali

• Discussion on how Parkinson's disease and brain damage were evident during Ali's last fights, affecting his speech and demeanor.

• A perspective that Ali continued boxing not for financial reasons but due to his ego and desire for fame, despite having made significant money.

• Fame described as a "drug" for Ali; he craved attention and applause, which was highlighted by his wife's observations about his need for public adoration.

Emotional Reflections on Ali’s Decline

• Personal anecdotes shared about attending Tyson fights with Ali, where he received more applause than Tyson, emphasizing the void left by losing that recognition.

• The emotional toll of witnessing Ali's decline due to Parkinson's; a poignant moment at a family wedding led to tears over his condition.

• Comparison drawn between personal experiences with Parkinson’s in family members and the tragic deterioration seen in Ali.

Humanitarian Efforts Beyond Boxing

• Despite not having the best boxing record, Ali is celebrated as the greatest boxer due to his humanitarian efforts outside the ring.

• Notable actions include negotiating for hostages and charitable contributions across various communities, showcasing his commitment to social causes.

Experiences Working with Bill Cosby

• Reflection on working with Bill Cosby; admiration for him as a comedian contrasted with personal dislike due to perceived arrogance.

• Anecdote about an encounter on set where Cosby ignored young black actors, highlighting issues of respect within the entertainment industry.

Critique of Cosby's Attitude Towards Black Comedy

• Discussion around Cosby's condescending view towards younger black comedians who did not conform to his standards of comedy.

• Mention of other comedians like Earthquake and D.L. Hughley who faced similar dismissive attitudes from Cosby regarding their comedic styles.

The Journey of "What's Happening" and Its Revival

Initial Encounter with Sony TV

• The speaker recounts visiting the president of Sony TV, following a series of unwritten rules, to pitch a treatment for a show.

• Despite initial enthusiasm, the response was negative; the president expressed that there was no audience for the show.

Research and Popularity Insights

• The president's wife suggested researching the show's rerun popularity, revealing it was more successful in reruns than during its original prime time slot.

• This revelation led to efforts to bring back "What's Happening," initiated by the speaker despite skepticism from others.

Challenges Faced During Campaign

• The speaker faced disbelief from cast members and lost representation (manager and agent) due to his campaign efforts.

• He sought help from a writer but received discouraging feedback about reviving the show.

Unexpected News of Revival

• While in Compton, California, he received unexpected news from an agency that "What's Happening" would be revived as "What's Happening Now."

• This announcement came after being told there was no audience for it previously, leading to mixed emotions.

Cast Changes and New Beginnings

• Original cast member wanted a million-dollar deal which led to his departure; Martin Lawrence replaced him in the revival.

• Martin Lawrence's first professional gig was on this show after not winning on Star Search.

Reflections on Success and Struggles

• The speaker reflects on not recognizing Lawrence's star potential early on but acknowledges how adversity can reveal hidden talents.

• After its end in 1988, he experienced sadness and returned to substance abuse due to feeling disconnected from success.

Consequences of Substance Abuse

• He discusses how fame increased access to drugs, leading him back into addiction after experiencing success with the show.

Relationships with Fans During Addiction

• Reflecting on interactions with fans who were involved in illicit activities; they provided support when others did not.

Isolation Amidst Addiction Struggles

Reflections on Substance Use and Recovery

The Experience of Being High

• The speaker describes a calm state when high, using music or other distractions to manage feelings of paranoia and fear about being caught by authorities.

• Initially, the high creates a sense of oblivion, but paranoia eventually sets in, leading to anxiety about potential consequences.

• As the effects wear off, the speaker acknowledges the need for additional substances like weed and sleeping pills to cope with withdrawal symptoms.

Struggles with Performance Anxiety

• The speaker recounts an experience where they were pressured to perform stand-up comedy despite feeling unprepared and overwhelmed by substance use.

• Arriving at a venue while heavily intoxicated led to emotional distress; they felt incapable of performing an hour-long set after only preparing 15 minutes.

• A moment of desperation occurred when the speaker prayed for help against their addiction while reflecting on their struggles.

Turning Point in Recovery

• After years of battling addiction, the speaker credits Jesus Christ for their recovery journey over the past 30 years without relapse.

Reflections on Friends Lost to Addiction

• The conversation shifts to Fred Berry's death due to drug-related issues; he was remembered fondly as someone who had a significant impact on those around him.

Interactions with Michael Jackson

• The speaker shares experiences meeting Michael Jackson through mutual connections but notes challenges in communication due to Jackson's reserved nature.

• Despite attempts at friendship, conversations were limited; this dynamic highlighted differences in personality and communication styles.

Career Highlights and Aspirations

• Discussion transitions into career milestones including sitcom roles alongside Martin Lawrence and Steve Harvey.

How a Pea Green Suit Led to an Oscar-Worthy Role

The Audition Experience

• The speaker describes borrowing a pea green suit and shining shoes for an audition, emphasizing the importance of appearance in the industry.

• During the audition, the speaker felt that their performance was met with indifference from Robbie Reed, who was assessing without showing emotion.

• After receiving a second callback, the speaker had the opportunity to perform alongside Denzel Washington, feeling optimistic about this chance.

• Spike Lee ultimately called back to inform the speaker they got the role of Sydney X, leading to an emotional celebration with others present.

• The speaker expresses disappointment that their film did not receive recognition at the Oscars despite believing it deserved accolades.

Reflections on Awards and Recognition

• The speaker reflects on Spike Lee winning an Oscar for "BlacKkKlansman," suggesting it was more of an apology for past oversights rather than genuine merit.

• They discuss how Hollywood has historically paved the way in addressing social issues like racism and civil rights through film narratives.

• The conversation highlights Hollywood's role in tackling sensitive topics such as AIDS and interracial relationships through influential films.

Personal Struggles and Career Developments

• By 1999, personal circumstances led the speaker to move back in with family after living with a woman they considered marrying but decided to remain platonic.

• Living in South Central Los Angeles exposed them to gang culture (Crips and Bloods), yet they felt safe during their time there.

Connections with Chris Rock

• The speaker recounts meeting Chris Rock while managing another talent in Buffalo New York before Rock became famous.

• They reflect on how Chris Rock later sought them out for a role he created specifically for them, showcasing his commitment despite others' promises falling through.

• This role significantly impacted their career visibility among younger audiences today.

Legacy Through Television

• The recurring character Mr. Omar allowed the speaker to connect with millennials, highlighting how impactful roles can transcend generations.

Discussion on Terry Crews and Racial Identity

Perspectives on Terry Crews' Statements

• The speaker expresses admiration for Terry Crews, believing he comes from a sincere place despite criticism directed at him.

• The speaker argues that labeling Crews as an "Uncle Tom" is unfair, suggesting his comments are not rooted in a sense of inferiority regarding race.

• Discussion about Crews' attempt to redefine the term "coon," which was met with backlash; the speaker acknowledges disagreement but appreciates Crews' intentions.

Controversial Terminology and Cultural Impact

• The speaker reflects on how rappers have reappropriated derogatory terms positively, contrasting this with their own views against such terminology.

• Acknowledgment of past Twitter exchanges with Crews over these topics, indicating ongoing dialogue and differing opinions.

Career Reflections and Personal Insights

Career Highlights

• Mention of the transition from "Everybody Hates Chris" to appearing in Adam Sandler's film "Funny People," highlighting a successful career trajectory.

Life Philosophy

• The speaker shares a personal quote emphasizing faith in oneself and the creator, advocating for positivity and hard work despite challenges.

• Emphasis on maintaining a positive mindset regardless of circumstances, underscoring the importance of self-belief.

Health and Longevity

Surviving Adversity

• At 72 years old, the speaker reflects on their health journey through drug use and its impact on longevity.

• They express gratitude for surviving various life challenges while acknowledging losses among peers.

Cultural Legacy

Influence of Black Television Shows

• Discussion about the lasting impact of shows like "What's Happening!" which paved the way for future black-led series that resonated with broader audiences.

Connection to Hip-Hop Culture

• The speaker recounts unexpected love received from hip-hop artists like Tupac, illustrating cross-cultural appreciation stemming from their television work.

Current Views on Health Practices

Vaccine Stance

Protecting Oneself in Public Spaces

Personal Health Precautions

• The speaker emphasizes the importance of self-protection and being considerate of others' health, particularly in public settings.

• They express discomfort with people sneezing openly around them, indicating a preference for maintaining personal space and hygiene.

• The speaker mentions that they have always taken precautions to avoid sneezing publicly, highlighting a proactive approach to health even before widespread mask usage.

• There is an underlying frustration expressed regarding the lack of awareness from others about health etiquette in shared environments.