Marc "Mahk" LeBlanc: Looking Glass Interview 8/10

Introduction to Mark LeBlanc

Who is Mark LeBlanc?

• Mark LeBlanc introduces himself and mentions that he sometimes goes by "Mock," a nickname with origins in college.

• The nickname "Mock" is explained as a reference to Hans and Franz, not related to a Boston accent.

Educational Background

• LeBlanc attended MIT, graduating in 1994 after initially enrolling in the class of '91. He was part of a five-year Master's program known as 6A.

• He took time off during his studies to work on the game System Shock, indicating a non-traditional path through his education.

Career Beginnings at Looking Glass Studios

Entry into Game Development

• LeBlanc lived with several key figures from Looking Glass Studios while at MIT, which facilitated his entry into the company.

• The formation of Looking Glass is described as stemming from connections made through Dungeons & Dragons among students at MIT.

Evolution of Company Name

• Initially named Blue Sky, the company underwent several name changes before settling on Looking Glass Technologies for its focus on high-tech 3D gaming.

• Other names considered included Flying Fish; however, it did not resonate well with publishers who felt it lacked seriousness.

Contributions to Game Development

Role and Responsibilities

• LeBlanc describes himself primarily as a programmer-designer whose daily tasks involve coding and overseeing other programmers.

• His work environment at Looking Glass encouraged collaboration between programming and design, allowing for contributions from all team members.

Game Design Insights from Underworld 2

Level Design Contributions

• The speaker discusses their role as a level designer and technical contributor, focusing on the development of systems and tools for designers.

• A new feature introduced in Underworld 2 was slippery terrain, which was showcased in the Ice Caves level designed by the speaker.

• The speaker reflects on their contributions to Underworld 1, particularly regarding object combinations that enhanced gameplay mechanics.

Innovative Gameplay Mechanics

• The Ultima series had a combinable objects system; players could create items like torches using oil and sticks.

• The speaker suggested combining thread and poles to create fishing poles, leading to an unexpected mini-game experience for players who discovered it.

• Despite no fishing poles being present in the demo version of Underworld 1, players creatively combined available items to access hidden gameplay features.

Player Exploration and Game Design

• The discovery of the fishing pole led some reviewers to describe the developers as "hyper intelligent beings," highlighting how player exploration can lead to unexpected rewards.

• The design team did not intend for this system to cater specifically to one player's discovery but aimed for a broader sense of exploration within the game world.

Community Engagement and Perception

• There were numerous discussions among fans about the underlying mechanics of Underworld, with many interpretations being completely fabricated by players' imaginations.

• This phenomenon indicated that the developers succeeded in creating a rich enough environment that encouraged players to imagine deeper layers of complexity.

Simulation vs. Game Design Philosophy

• A recurring theme discussed is how early games like Underworld began with a simulation-oriented design approach rather than focusing solely on fun gameplay elements.

• In 1990, there was a cultural fascination with cyberspace; developers aimed to simulate immersive environments reflective of future user interfaces.

Exploring the Cultural Impact of Virtual Reality in Gaming

The Zeitgeist of Technology and Gaming

• The discussion highlights a connection between technology and cultural trends, suggesting that the popularity of certain gaming themes reflects broader societal interests during that time.

• System Shock is identified as a significant cyberpunk narrative emerging from Underworld, showcasing early representations of cyberspace and virtual reality (VR).

• The speaker recalls experiences with VR headsets at traveling shows, emphasizing the novelty and excitement surrounding VR technology during its inception.

Understanding Virtual Reality's Evolution

• There was a common misconception that virtual reality was solely about hardware (goggles and gloves), while the speaker emphasizes the importance of software development for immersive experiences.

• The conversation touches on creating realistic simulations within games, focusing on how interactions should mimic real-world physics and behaviors.

Comparing Game Design Philosophies

• Looking Glass Studios is noted for its meticulous attention to simulation details compared to contemporaries like Wolfenstein or Doom, which prioritized streamlined gameplay over complex interactions.

• While Wolfenstein innovated by simplifying design elements, Looking Glass aimed for deeper engagement through thoughtful game mechanics.

Immersive Detail in Game Worlds

• The speaker expresses a personal preference for Looking Glass games due to their immersive detail and simulated worlds, contrasting them with more straightforward titles like Doom.

• Ultima 7 is mentioned as an example of early games that incorporated detailed interactions (e.g., sitting in chairs or baking bread), reflecting a commitment to world-building.

Legacy of Simulation in Game Design

• The conversation explores whether Looking Glass's focus on simulation can be traced back to influences from Origin Systems, known for their intricate game designs.

Exploring the Evolution of Ultima Underworld

Connection Between Ultima Underworld Games

• Ultima Underworld 2 aimed to be an extension of the Ultima 7 storyline, featuring canonical characters and plot elements that tied back to the larger universe.

• The integration of established characters from the Ultima series created a sense of obligation for developers to maintain story consistency across games.

• Developers focused on enhancing narrative depth by ensuring that character interactions were meaningful within the overarching storyline.

Technological Advancements in Game Design

• New technology was developed for Ultima Underworld 2, allowing NPCs (non-player characters) to have daily schedules and engage in more realistic behaviors.

• Characters followed specific routines, such as going to their bedrooms at designated times, which added layers of realism similar to those seen in later games like Elder Scrolls: Oblivion.

Comparison with Other Game Titles

• The discussion highlights how NPC scheduling was not fully realized in other franchises until much later; Oblivion introduced this feature around 2004.

• The smaller scope of early Looking Glass games allowed for more intricate simulation features compared to larger titles that faced resource constraints.

Game Design Philosophy and Player Experience

• A simulated environment necessitated design choices that prioritized realism, such as requiring players to find quest givers who might be unavailable due to their routines.

• This approach contrasts with modern MMOs like World of Warcraft (WoW), where gameplay is streamlined for functionality over immersive simulation.

Community Engagement and Experimental Design

• Early gamers were more willing to engage with experimental designs, appreciating attempts at simulation even if they weren't fully polished or functional.

• There was a "frontier mentality" among players during the early '90s, fostering a community eager to explore new gaming possibilities and innovations.

Conclusion on Simulation in Gaming

• Developers learned that successful game design involved knowing what elements could be omitted while still providing an engaging experience for players.

Understanding Game Design Choices

The Balance of Realism and Imagination

• The speaker discusses the challenge in game design of knowing what to simulate versus what to leave to players' imaginations, using Red Dead Redemption as an example where players can summon their horse.

• This feature is seen as a simplification that detracts from realism but enhances gameplay by reducing unnecessary complexity.

Simplifying Complex Systems

• In System Shock, the conversation system was simplified significantly through the use of audio logs, demonstrating a design choice focused on streamlining player experience.

User Interface Development

• The speaker reflects on their role in programming and user interface development for System Shock, acknowledging personal responsibility for certain design choices.

• They describe the user interface as being influenced by Microsoft Word's approach, aiming for visibility and accessibility of features, which may have led to cluttered screens.

Mouse Look Evolution

• Discussion shifts to the absence of mouse look functionality in System Shock, highlighting how frame rates limited this feature's implementation during its time.

• The evolution of mouse look required higher frame rates; earlier games like Doom restricted vertical movement due to technical constraints.

Technical Constraints and Optimizations

• The speaker explains that optimizations were made in System Shock for rendering when looking parallel to the floor, allowing better performance despite limitations in hardware capabilities.

• They note that until 3D hardware became prevalent with improved frame rates, implementing free mouse look was challenging.

Unique Features within Gameplay

Video Game References in System Shock

The Influence of Video Games on Design

• Discussion about the inclusion of video game references in "Underworld" and "System Shock," highlighting a desire to integrate gaming culture into the narrative.

• Mention of various games like Pong and Missile Command, showcasing how these classics influenced design choices within the game development process.

Simulation Mechanics and Gameplay

• Explanation of how time simulation in "System Shock" affects gameplay; actions in the main game world influence events in mini-games like Pong.

• Insight into using drugs within "System Shock" to enhance gameplay performance, creating an intriguing layer of interaction between player actions and game mechanics.

Cyberpunk Elements and Narrative Depth

• Analysis of "System Shock" as a self-reflexive cyberpunk game that intertwines traditional gaming with its own narrative, emphasizing character depth through gameplay choices.

• Personal anecdotes about hiding from zombies while trying to complete video games, illustrating the immersive experience created by blending different gameplay elements.

Cyberspace Conceptualization

• Discussion on cyberspace as a critical concept within the game's design, including unique control schemes that enhance player engagement during pivotal moments.

• Reflection on initial design ideas involving terminal hacking, which were ultimately cut due to concerns over player immersion.

Player Experience and Game Mechanics

• Examination of HUD features allowing players to customize their experience, reflecting on how these choices impact immersion and gameplay strategy.

• Trivia regarding rear-view mirrors in-game that evolve over time, enhancing player awareness and strategic options against enemies.

Emergent Gameplay Dynamics

• Commentary on enemy spawn mechanics tied to player visibility; this adds layers of strategy regarding awareness during gameplay encounters.

• Observations about Looking Glass's commitment to emergent gameplay throughout their titles, maintaining complexity even as they sought commercial viability.

Evolution of Game Design Philosophy

• Insights into how Looking Glass refined their approach over time while still focusing on rich systems for emergent narratives.

Game Design Insights: Thief vs. Deus Ex

Interface and Game Structure

• The interface of Thief is described as streamlined and less cluttered, enhancing user experience compared to other games.

• The game world in Thief is smaller and consists of multiple simulated environments, allowing players to focus on specific objectives without getting lost in a vast open world.

• Players are placed in a sandbox environment with clear objectives, encouraging creative problem-solving through various methods to achieve goals.

Emergence in Gameplay

• The concept of emergence is discussed, highlighting the difference between finding pre-designed solutions versus creating unique solutions within the game.

• A distinction is made between "authoring" a solution (designing it yourself) and simply choosing from pre-existing options provided by the game.

Designing for Player Experience

• Commercially released games must ensure that player objectives are achievable; designers need to validate that missions can be completed successfully.

• There’s an emphasis on the necessity for some authored elements within gameplay to guarantee that players can meet their objectives effectively.

Comparing Game Design Philosophies

• Looking Glass's approach to game design contrasts with other studios like Ion Storm, particularly regarding how they define "creating a solution."

• The discussion touches on differing philosophies about open-ended gameplay—whether it should be more structured or allow for greater player freedom.

Promises Made to Players

• Deus Ex aimed high by guaranteeing multiple play styles would be validated within its design, which posed significant challenges for developers.

• In contrast, Thief made fewer promises regarding gameplay outcomes but ensured that sneaking was a viable method for completing levels.

Exploring Player Expectations in Game Design

The Role of Player Choices

• Discussion on how players can choose different roles (thief, assassin) in games, emphasizing the importance of player agency and enjoyment regardless of their chosen path.

Emergent Gameplay Mechanics

• Insight into how "Thief" offers emergent gameplay experiences that may not be fully planned by designers, leading to unexpected player solutions and interactions.

Specific Mission Example: Assassins

• Description of a mission where players must follow assassins to uncover their plans, highlighting narrative-driven gameplay mechanics.

• Players face challenges like sneaking through intimidating gates and using creative problem-solving to navigate obstacles.

Unintended Solutions in Level Design

• A personal anecdote about using a rope arrow creatively while carrying a crate to bypass stealth requirements, showcasing player ingenuity.

• Reflection on how such unintended solutions reveal the flexibility and depth of level design beyond initial intentions.

Developer Philosophy on Player Exploration

• Discussion on the developer's approach to unplanned game elements; instead of removing unintended paths, they would add features (like ladders) to enhance player experience.

Understanding Game Industry Evolution

Shifting Gamer Demographics

• Examination of changing expectations within the gaming community as it expands from niche hobbyists to broader audiences over time.

Communication of Game Expectations

• Insights into how game titles and cover art shape player expectations versus actual gameplay experiences.

Historical Context of Gaming Audiences

• Reflection on the smaller audience for computer games two decades ago compared to today’s diverse gamer demographics.

The Concept of Universality in Fun

Challenges in Defining Fun Across Audiences

• Discussion about the struggle within the industry to create universally appealing game designs that resonate with varied audiences.

Game Design as a Discipline

The Evolution of Game Design Theory

• Discussion on formalizing game design as a discipline, highlighting the shift towards recognizing it as a field of study.

• Distinction between descriptive and prescriptive game design; prescriptive focuses on what makes a game "good" or "bad," while descriptive examines how games function and player behavior.

• Emphasis on analyzing games without value judgments, allowing for objective discussions about game mechanics like feedback systems.

Historical Context and Framework Development

• Reference to the gaming landscape in the mid to late 90s, contrasting attitudes towards gameplay styles (e.g., stealth vs. combat).

• Introduction of the MDA framework (Mechanics, Dynamics, Aesthetics), developed from workshops at GDC starting in 2001, focusing on objectives and aesthetic goals in game design.

Understanding Game Aesthetics

• Recognition that different games aim for various aesthetic experiences; understanding these can inform better design principles.

• Games can be viewed through three lenses: aesthetics (fun types), system behaviors, and rules collections.

Industry Conversations and Feedback Mechanisms

• Noting that significant conversations around game design occurred within the industry rather than just academic circles.

• Mention of Doug's talk on perceivable consequences in games leading to discussions about intentionality versus quality assessments.

Emergence as a Key Concept

• Importance of separating descriptive statements from prescriptive ones; understanding feedback systems' roles without labeling them as inherently good or bad is crucial for evolving game design discourse.

Understanding Game Dynamics and Narrative Structures

Emergence of Game Systems

• The concept of game dynamics is not pre-written by an author but emerges from the game's system, emphasizing the unique experience each player has.

• Unlike traditional media, where experiences are fixed (like movies), games offer a dynamic interaction that can vary significantly between players.

Comparison with Other Media

• While all media provide unique experiences to individuals, games create a distinct type of difference due to their interactive nature.

• The discussion contrasts meticulous simulation design in games like those from Looking Glass with more linear designs found in titles like Doom.

Lessons Learned in Game Design

• There is a belief that lessons about dynamic systems have been well learned in the post-Looking Glass game industry, though there remains room for linear narratives.

• Games such as Red Dead Redemption (RDR) exemplify this learning by incorporating RPG elements and allowing players to engage uniquely within the game world.

Player Agency and Experience

• Casual games and Facebook games also reflect this trend by focusing on player choice rather than following a strict narrative path.

• RDR's open-world design allows for emergent gameplay where player actions lead to varied outcomes, contrasting with more scripted experiences.

Narrative vs. Emergent Gameplay

• The conversation highlights how RDR balances emergent gameplay with narrative-driven missions, creating a duality in player experience.

• Story missions often revert players back to linear storytelling, which can diminish the sense of agency established during free exploration.

Conclusion on Game Structure

• The structure of narrative missions can feel restrictive compared to the freedom offered in open-world scenarios; they serve as "padded cells" for story development.

Open World as a Theme Park Experience

The Concept of Open Worlds in Gaming

• The speaker expresses a personal preference for open-world games, viewing them as the main attraction in gaming experiences.

• They compare Rockstar Games to theme parks, suggesting that story missions function like rides, while the immersive world serves as the primary draw.

Immersion and Thematic Reinforcement

• The analogy of a theme park is further explored; the open world allows players to engage in various activities akin to wandering through an amusement park.

• Unlike traditional theme parks where rides may not reinforce themes, the speaker argues that in games like Red Dead Redemption, rides (or missions) enhance character and world immersion.

Design Philosophy Comparison