Structure | AGC & Discipleship Training (Jun 10th)

Name: Structure | AGC & Discipleship Training (Jun 10th)
Uploaded: 2025-06-16T08:20:42.000Z
Duration: 3 h 20 min 43 s

AGC Training Overview and Church Structure Discussion

Introduction to AGC Training

The speaker welcomes everyone and mentions the new timetable for AGC training, emphasizing the need for participants to inform Tavina about their attendance on optional dates.

A light-hearted moment occurs as the speaker asks how many attendees will not be taking the exam, prompting laughter and engagement from the audience.

Importance of Exam Participation

The speaker insists that all clergy in training must take the exam, encouraging those hesitant to stand up so they can address any concerns directly.

Emphasizes that taking the exam is crucial for revision purposes, stating it’s a multiple-choice format which should alleviate anxiety about performance.

Registration and Test Access

Participants are reminded by Siobhan and Ronali to register online for their tests, with instructions provided on accessing necessary details.

The speaker reassures attendees that results will remain confidential; there will be no public shaming or judgment based on performance.

Changes in Ordination Schedule

An announcement is made regarding changes to ordination dates; specifically, ordinations part three will occur on a different date than previously communicated.

Teaching Session: Church Structure

Transitioning into the main teaching segment, the focus shifts to church structure—its importance and effectiveness when set up correctly.

The speaker discusses why a diocesan structure was chosen over a denominational one, highlighting that denominations are not biblically supported concepts.

Understanding Diocesan vs. Denominational Structures

Clarifies that while various denominations exist (e.g., Anglican, Methodist), they often operate under a diocesan framework which includes governance by bishops.

Discusses Protestant churches with episcopal structures and emphasizes their significance according to New Testament teachings.

Historical Context of Episcopal Governance

The speaker notes that New Testament scripture supports having bishops as part of church governance—a concept absent in Old Testament practices.

Shares personal experiences regarding transitioning leadership towards an episcopal structure after discussions with Pastor Neil about its necessity.

Influence of Ancient Theology

Understanding the Role of Dionysius in Early Church Teachings

The Importance of Dionysius as a Source

Dionysius is valued for his proximity to Paul, who is often difficult to understand. His insights are seen as crucial for interpreting Paul's teachings accurately.

The speaker emphasizes that explanations from those closer in time to Paul, like Dionysius, are more reliable than later interpretations by figures such as Augustine.

Works of Dionysius

Dionysius authored significant texts including "Celestial Hierarchies" and "Ecclesial Hierarchy," which explore angelic hierarchies and church structure respectively.

Reading these works provides profound insights into the early church's understanding and organization, reflecting Paul's original vision.

Insights on Preaching and Blessings

The speaker shares a personal realization that preaching leads to blessings for both the preacher and the congregation, emphasizing a reciprocal relationship between them.

God promises not to put preachers to shame when they faithfully convey His word, ensuring that their testimonies align with divine promises.

Understanding the Church Structure

In John 4, Jesus defines the church's power against evil forces ("gates of Hades"), highlighting its strength and purpose.

The speaker critiques simplistic definitions of church as merely a gathering of people; instead, he argues for a structured organization essential for true church identity.

Distinction Between Ministries

Various ministries (e.g., prophetic or pastoral) are described as departments within the larger church framework rather than standalone entities.

The Harvest: Understanding Our Role in God's Purpose

The Woman at the Well and the Concept of Harvest

The discussion begins with a reference to the biblical story of the woman at the well, highlighting its significance in understanding spiritual nourishment and purpose.

Jesus emphasizes that His "food" or nourishment comes from doing God's will, indicating that fulfillment is found in serving a higher purpose.

The speaker stresses that everyone has been sent with a purpose by God, which transforms their actions into spiritual nourishment.

Sowing and Reaping: A Dual Responsibility

Jesus points out that there are two roles within the church: those who sow seeds (share the gospel) and those who reap (gather believers).

Both sowers and reapers share in joy; they work together for a common goal, emphasizing community collaboration in faith.

The speaker reiterates that while some may sow, others will reap; this dynamic is essential for church growth and outreach.

Entering Into Labor: The Blessings of Reaping

Those who reap receive wages for their efforts, illustrating that participation in God's work brings both spiritual rewards and fulfillment.

It’s crucial to recognize oneself as a reaper rather than merely an observer; active involvement leads to blessings.

Identifying as Reapers: A Call to Action

By identifying as reapers, individuals can partake in the fruits of labor already sown by others within their community or church.

The importance of recognizing ripe harvest fields is emphasized; believers must act on this awareness by spreading the gospel actively.

Misconceptions About Roles Within Church Community

Many mistakenly view themselves as part of the harvest instead of recognizing their role as workers or reapers tasked with gathering souls.

This misunderstanding can lead to ineffective church dynamics; true church function requires all members to see themselves as active participants in harvesting souls.

Understanding the Workforce of God

The Role of the Church and Its Members

Kirby is described as an interesting figure who emphasizes the importance of knowledge and community within the church, hinting at a mystical quality to his teachings.

Becoming part of God's workforce is highlighted as essential; members are encouraged to actively bring others into the church community.

The speaker asserts that those who work to bring people into the church will receive blessings, reinforcing that their lives should reflect this divine favor.

A warning is given about shame; if one does not see blessings in their life, it may indicate they are not fully engaged in God's work or workforce.

The speaker challenges attendees by asking how many have invited others to church, suggesting that engagement leads to receiving God's wages.

The Cycle of Reaping and Sowing

Emphasis on reaping what you sow: those who actively share their faith will be rewarded by God, contrasting with those who remain passive.

The narrative shifts to a biblical example where a woman tells others about Jesus, illustrating how sharing leads to collective growth within the church community.

This cycle of sowing (sharing faith) and reaping (growing community) is presented as fundamental for a thriving church environment.

Without active participation in spreading faith, churches risk becoming mere self-help groups rather than places of spiritual growth and connection.

Understanding Sunship in Context

Introduction to the concept of "latter reign" movements which influence current teachings on sunship—an important theological concept regarding one's relationship with God.

Sunship is framed not just as inheritance but also as a posture of submission; understanding this distinction is crucial for grasping its full meaning.

Jesus exemplifies this submission through his role as a son, emphasizing that true leadership involves yielding one's will rather than asserting authority.

Differences Among Individuals

Acknowledgment that individuals differ significantly from one another; these differences should not lead to offense but rather foster understanding within the church community.

Discussion on historical methods for establishing churches highlights varying approaches based on individual strengths and perspectives.

Understanding the Hierarchical Structure of Early Christianity

Historical Context of Church Establishment

The discussion begins by emphasizing that the context is set 200 years after Paul and Dionysius, highlighting the early stages of church formation.

It notes that during this time, neither the Catholic nor Orthodox churches had been established yet, with significant developments occurring only around 300 AD under Emperor Constantine.

The Concept of Hierarchy in Early Writings

The speaker refers to writings from the fifth and sixth centuries attributed to Dionysius, suggesting a direct connection to first-century teachings from Paul. This raises questions about authorship and authenticity.

There is a distinction made between "initiated" (often associated with occult practices) and "ordained," which implies a formal entry into an order within Christian contexts. This highlights ancient terminology's significance in understanding church structure.

Understanding the Role of the Hierarch

The hierarch is described as someone who embodies all sacred knowledge rather than progressively gaining it over time; this challenges common perceptions about spiritual development within church leadership roles.

The concept suggests that once someone becomes a hierarch, they receive an innate understanding or calling without needing extensive study or gradual progression in their role. This idea emphasizes immediate recognition of one's purpose within the hierarchy.

Church as a Vessel for Divine Experience

The church is portrayed as a structured body representing heaven on earth, designed to facilitate God's interaction with humanity through its ordained leaders and members. This underscores the belief in divine presence being more fully realized within organized religion compared to individual experiences outside it.

It posits that while individuals may have personal encounters with God, these do not equate to experiencing the fullness of God’s presence available through the church structure itself. Thus, there’s an emphasis on community worship versus solitary spirituality.

Symbolism of Discipleship and Cosmic Order

The twelve disciples are linked symbolically to zodiac constellations, suggesting each disciple represents specific celestial powers intended to manifest divine influence on earth through their ministry roles. This introduces a mystical dimension to understanding early Christian leadership structures and their cosmic implications.

The Purpose of Incarnation and Individual Grace

Understanding God's Desire for Incarnation

God desires to incarnate on Earth so that every individual can achieve theosis, or union with Him. The church's role is to facilitate this full experience of God for everyone.

Insights from Ephesians

Reference is made to Ephesians 4, where Paul urges believers to walk worthy of their calling with humility and love, emphasizing unity in the Spirit.

Each person is given a unique grace according to Christ's measure, highlighting that everyone's grace differs and cannot be exchanged or imitated.

The Unique Role Within the Church

Individuals are compared to parts of a machine (cog wheels, bolts, springs), each having a distinct function within the church community. Striving to take on roles meant for others leads to confusion and inefficiency.

It’s crucial for individuals in the church to recognize their unique contributions rather than trying to emulate others' experiences or roles. This understanding fosters harmony within the community.

Embracing Your Role

When someone joins a church, they should identify what role they can fulfill—like being a doorkeeper—rather than aspiring for positions held by others. Immersing oneself in their designated role brings blessings and fulfillment.

The misconception that one must possess another's revelations or anointing for success is addressed; true blessing comes from fulfilling one's specific purpose within the church context.

The Importance of Community Roles

Members should actively seek out how they can contribute meaningfully within the church structure; this could involve simple tasks like catching people when they fall or ensuring doors are kept open. Such actions are vital regardless of one's status or background.

The Role of the Church and Spiritual Gifts

Understanding the Need for Preachers

The church requires individuals who feel called to preach, perform signs, wonders, and miracles. God will guide those with anointing to take on these roles.

Those who do not preach are likened to reapers who receive their wages; understanding this hierarchy is crucial for church order.

Christ's Ascension and Gifts to the Church

Upon ascending, Christ led captivity captive and bestowed gifts upon men, indicating a divine structure within the church.

These gifts include apostleship, prophecy, evangelism, pastorship, and teaching—each serving a unique purpose in filling the church.

Building the Church as One Body

The purpose of these roles is for equipping saints for ministry work and edifying (building up) the church as a vessel for God's presence.

The goal is unity in faith among believers through collaboration of all five roles (apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers).

Maturity Through Unity

True maturity in faith cannot be achieved individually; it requires collective effort from all members of the body of Christ.

This unity transcends denominational boundaries; it emphasizes coming together as one body rather than isolated groups.

Each Member's Unique Contribution

The term "angura" signifies completeness when all members function together harmoniously within the church.

Maturity refers to collective growth towards Christ’s fullness; individual contributions are essential for achieving this state.

Effective Functioning of the Body

Growth occurs when each member knows their role and contributes effectively without trying to imitate others' functions.

The Role of the Body of Christ

Importance of Each Part in the Body

Each part of the body is essential for growth and function, emphasizing that even seemingly small roles are crucial.

The concept of "edifying" suggests a continuous process of growth and love within the community.

Revelation and Understanding

The speaker questions if their message feels new to the audience, indicating a moment of revelation or insight among listeners. This highlights the importance of fresh perspectives in spiritual discussions.

The idea presented is that believers should not compete but rather collaborate as parts of one body, specifically referencing "the son of God."

Unity in Diversity

The metaphorical use of "sun" illustrates how individual contributions come together to form a complete entity—the body of Christ—emphasizing unity despite diversity.

Critique is made about denominations being incomplete bodies, lacking essential components like hands or legs, which symbolizes missing ministries or functions within the church.

Need for Comprehensive Ministry

The speaker reflects on their journey from prophetic ministry to pastoral roles, stressing that each ministry type (apostolic, teaching, pastoral, evangelical) is necessary for completeness. This underscores interdependence among different ministries.

There’s an emphasis on serving entire nations through a unified body rather than fragmented denominational approaches that limit understanding and collaboration among various ministries.

Historical Context and Structure

Discussion includes historical references to church governance where multiple denominations operate under one bishop—a model intended for unity rather than division. This points towards an ideal structure for church leadership today.

An explanation follows regarding early teachings categorized into purifiers, illuminators, consecrators, and sacred mystics—each playing distinct roles within the church framework that must be understood for effective participation in ministry.

Role Clarification Among Mystics

Sacred mystics (or monks) are described as individuals who take vows but may not necessarily be ordained; they contribute significantly through their commitment to holiness and prayer without permanent ordination status. This distinction clarifies their role within religious communities today.

Understanding the Role of Mystics and Denominations in the Church

The Concept of Set-Apart Lives

The church recognizes individuals who live set-apart lives, akin to monks and nuns, contributing to spiritual work without being ordained.

There exists a divide between those engaged in mystical practices and others who prefer traditional theology, leading to denominational splits.

Denominational Differences

Baptists are characterized by their disbelief in miracles, contrasting with Pentecostals who engage in daily prayer and holy living.

Different denominations represent various parts of the larger body of Christ; not all members adhere to strict holiness standards.

The Role of Women in Spiritual Practices

Within Protestantism, there are women who dedicate themselves entirely to prayer and fasting, similar to nuns but outside Catholicism.

These women are considered mystics for their commitment to spiritual work without seeking ordination.

Importance of Mystics

Mystics play a crucial role within the church; however, not everyone is called to be mystical or ordained.

Individuals can contribute significantly through their dedication to prayer and spirituality without holding formal titles like pastor.

Purifiers: A Unique Role in the Church

The concept of "purifiers" refers to deacons or leaders within the church who assist with its functions without needing ordination.

Weddings and Church Roles

AJ's Involvement in Weddings

AJ is involved in weddings but is busy; hopes for future assistance from Siobhan and Shan.

AJ is ordained and enjoys his role, indicating a strong commitment to his faith despite a busy schedule.

The Role of Purifiers in the Church

The term "purifier" refers to church leaders who play an evangelical role, emphasizing their importance in the community.

All church leaders, including deacons and assistants, are considered evangelists or reapers, highlighting the collective responsibility of spreading faith.

Understanding Evangelism

Evangelism is not limited to a specific title; every member of the church embodies this spirit as they engage with others about their faith.

The concept of being a "reaper" signifies active participation in harvesting souls for the church.

Distinctions Among Church Roles

Illuminators are those awaiting ordination or already ordained pastors responsible for conducting sacraments like baptisms.

Consecrators (bishops or hierarchs) focus on consecrating vessels necessary for services rather than teaching.

Maximus the Confessor's Ecclesiology

Maximus distinguishes between different roles within the church: apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, and evangelists based on their functions and thought processes.

Teachers can fall under both purifying and illuminating roles; there’s flexibility in how these roles intersect within church leadership.

Contemplation vs. Reasoning in Leadership

Apostles and prophets operate primarily through contemplation without reason; pastors shift towards reasoning when seeking knowledge.

This distinction emphasizes different approaches to understanding spiritual truths among various church leaders.

Representation of Soul and Spirit

Understanding the Role of Pastors in Church Dynamics

The Importance of Pastoral Roles

The speaker emphasizes that pastors should remain in the outer court and not become overly mystical, as this can lead to a lack of connection with the congregation.

A pastor who is too contemplative may neglect their responsibilities to engage with church members, leading to an unhealthy church environment.

The speaker critiques mystical churches where distinctions between roles are blurred, resulting in stagnation in growth and salvation within the community.

Hierarchical Structure and Wisdom

It is essential for church members to recognize different roles within the church; hierarchs or consecrators operate from a place of wisdom, aiming for truth.

The term "chakma" (wisdom) is introduced as foundational for those in leadership positions like prophets and pastors, who must prioritize truth above all else.

Knowledge vs. Understanding

Congregants possess understanding but do not need wisdom; they rely on knowledge which comes from practical experience rather than spiritual insight.

The speaker acknowledges their dependence on congregants' expertise while asserting that they will not compete with them regarding knowledge.

Functioning Within Church Dynamics

There needs to be a clear separation of roles: leaders seek truth through wisdom while congregants pursue understanding through knowledge.

Accountability is emphasized; leaders should guide based on truth without expecting congregants to function at their level of wisdom.

Practical Guidance from Pastors

A well-functioning church requires pastors who illuminate practical matters using reason and understanding rather than abstract spiritual concepts.

Understanding Church Structure and Roles in Evangelism

The Role of Angels and Practicality in Faith

The speaker emphasizes that the church's purpose is not to focus solely on mystical elements like angels, but rather on practical engagement within the community.

Being a mystic without active participation in a church renders one's efforts ineffective; one must be involved in evangelism to fulfill their role as a "reaper" in the field.

Church Leadership and Structure

The speaker outlines the hierarchical structure of their church, highlighting that every member has an evangelical role, contributing to the overall mission of harvesting souls.

Key figures such as advisors and board members are introduced, with specific mention of Marshall Roshan and Linia, who play significant roles within this structure.

Importance of Board Members

Board members are described as "purifiers," indicating their role in maintaining spiritual integrity within the church. Their presence adds prestige to the organization.

The speaker acknowledges both male and female leaders on his board, emphasizing inclusivity while discussing their collective responsibility towards evangelism.

National Council Dynamics

A national council consisting of bishops serves as consecrators within the church hierarchy. This layer is crucial for maintaining order and spiritual authority.

The speaker expresses regret over missing visuals or names from previous discussions but reassures that all leaders contribute significantly to church operations.

Personal Reflections on Leadership Equality

The speaker reflects on personal humility by choosing not to position himself above others who he believes deserve leadership roles more than he does.

He shares insights about relationships with other leaders, illustrating a dynamic where mutual respect exists despite differences in rank or title.

Acknowledging Influential Figures

Notable figures such as Bishop Paul Marin's son are mentioned, showcasing how relationships can transcend traditional hierarchies within faith communities.

The speaker honors Pastor Luke for his mentorship throughout his journey, acknowledging him as a prophetic figure while expressing gratitude for their partnership.

Community Engagement and Advisory Roles

Emphasis is placed on having strong advisory support from various influential individuals who contribute to guiding the community effectively.

Advisory Board Structure and Roles

Overview of the Advisory Board

The speaker introduces their advisory board, highlighting the legendary status of its members, including Mangju, Tommy Miller, Linda Odway, Arush, Chanel Rose, Jami, Pastor Sun, and Ben Johnson.

Members are categorized into layers; some hold pastoral roles while others take on apostolic and prophetic functions. John Bes is noted for his exceptional pastoral skills combined with a prophetic gift.

Pastoral Insights

Kelsey Bes is mentioned as an example of a highly reasonable pastor who provides practical advice rather than mystical theology.

The emphasis is placed on the practical wisdom these pastors offer to help individuals navigate life effectively.

Church Structure and Questions

The speaker discusses the church's structure and invites questions from attendees but notes a lack of engagement from those in attendance.

The absence of questions leads the speaker to reflect on whether attendees have understood the material or if they are hesitant to ask questions.

Understanding Wisdom and Spiritual Insight

Clarifying Wisdom vs. Understanding

A question arises regarding how different positions within the church may appear rigid; the speaker elaborates on wisdom as both spiritual and natural.

There’s a distinction made between worldly wisdom and spiritual understanding that comes from above. Congregational understanding differs from hierarchical wisdom.

Giftings and Personal Identity

The speaker emphasizes that spiritual gifts should not be confined to rigid categories; there can be overlaps in roles such as teaching and prophecy.

Personal reflections reveal confusion about self-identification in ministry roles; the speaker admits to previously mislabeling themselves as a teacher when they primarily operate in revelation.

Teaching Dynamics

How Does Authority Work in the Church?

The Role of the Church and State

The Protestant Reformation shifted authority from a theocratic system where priests led both church and state to a model where the state governs over the church.

This transition aimed to balance power, moving control from the church to secular authorities, exemplified by appointing the King of England as head of the church.

Understanding Personal Callings

Individuals often sense their calling from a young age, feeling a special connection to God that indicates they may be destined for priesthood.

As one grows into this calling, challenges arise that help diminish ego, leaving only a connection with God; those not called may pursue success in secular fields instead.

Distinction Between Priests and Mystics

A true priest cannot succeed with ego; their role is inherently different from business leaders who thrive on personal ambition.

Mystics within the church can maintain their spiritual practices without performing sacraments or rituals typically expected of priests.

Ritual vs. Mysticism

There is often confusion between priests and monks; while priests are ritualistic and focused on liturgy, monks embrace mystical experiences.

Many assume that if a priest does not engage in mystical practices, they lack spirituality; however, priests fulfill essential roles within structured rituals.

Authority in Church Leadership

Questions arise regarding how authority is determined within churches—some rely on apostolic succession while others claim authority through self-declaration.

Understanding Church Authority and Roles in Ministry

The Concept of Priesthood

The speaker expresses gratitude for being recognized as the head of the church, emphasizing that all believers are part of a royal priesthood and a holy nation. This signifies a collective identity among followers.

Determining Authority in Protestantism

A discussion on how authority is determined within Protestantism highlights that pastoral roles are identified by having followers, suggesting that leadership is inherently linked to community engagement.

The speaker elaborates on identifying one's role within the body of Christ, indicating that individuals may have various spiritual gifts (prophetic, apostolic, pastoral), which can be discerned through community recognition.

Role Distinctions and Changes

It is noted that while roles can evolve over time as one matures spiritually, there remains an innate primary role that individuals will recognize within themselves.

The speaker reflects on personal experiences with role identification, stating they initially thought they were a teacher but later realized their prophetic calling.

Offices vs. Spiritual Gifts

Clarification is provided regarding the office of bishop versus spiritual gifts like pastor or prophet. Bishops hold a political office rather than a spiritual gift, which differentiates them from other ministry roles.

The distinction between church offices (like bishop) and spiritual gifts (apostle, pastor, prophet) is emphasized; bishops can also fulfill these roles but are not defined by them.

Historical Context and Five-Fold Ministry

The speaker critiques the Catholic Church's structure for neglecting the five-fold ministry concept (apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers), which has significant biblical importance.

Historical context is provided about the Protestant Reformation's impact on church authority dynamics; it was partly driven by prophetic ministries absent in Catholicism at the time.

Understanding the Role of the Prophet

The Office of the Prophet

The concept of the "office of the prophet" is discussed, emphasizing its connection with government interactions.

It is noted that people often confuse their ministry role with being in an official office, which leads to misunderstandings.

The government communicates directly with this prophetic office, indicating a structured relationship between spiritual and governmental authority.

There is a distinction made between different roles within prophetic ministry, suggesting a hierarchy or categorization in how prophets operate.

The speaker critiques Catholic theology for not adequately addressing these distinctions within prophetic functions.

Gifts of the Prophet

A mention is made regarding the "gift of the prophet," which implies that all individuals can function within this gift regardless of their official title or position.