How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford professor, “Touchy Feely”)

How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford professor, “Touchy Feely”)

[Detailed Summary of Transcript]

Class at Stanford and Feedback Techniques

In this section, the speaker discusses the impact of their class at Stanford on individuals and delves into effective feedback techniques.

  • Feedback should avoid triggering defensiveness by refraining from starting questions with "why."
  • The concept of three realities emphasizes that individuals are only aware of two out of the three realities in any situation.
  • Anger is highlighted as a secondary emotion masking underlying feelings of fear or hurt.

Introduction to Carol Robin

This part introduces Carol Robin, an expert in interpersonal dynamics and leadership development.

  • Carol Robin taught courses at Stanford's Graduate School of Business focusing on building relationships and enhancing leadership skills.
  • She founded Leaders in Tech, a nonprofit bringing similar lessons to high-tech leaders, and authored the book "Connect."

Transformative Impact and Key Insights

The discussion centers on personal transformations through courses led by Carol Robin and key insights shared during interactions.

  • Participants experienced significant transformations in communication, leadership, and relationship-building after attending Carol's courses.
  • Mental models formed in youth can limit potential; disclosing more than comfortable enhances leadership effectiveness.

Importance of Vulnerability and Relationship Building

Vulnerability's role in leadership, exceptional relationship building, and its significance are explored.

  • Vulnerability is crucial for effective leadership; exceptional relationships play a vital role in personal growth.
  • Effective feedback delivery, understanding multiple realities around us, and fostering strong relationships are essential topics covered.

Sponsor Messages

Sponsors' messages highlighting EPO's AB testing platform and Command Bar's AI-powered toolkit for product growth are presented.

  • EPO offers advanced statistical methods for experimentation velocity enhancement across various use cases.
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Impactful Course Testimonials

Testimonials reflecting the profound impact of Carol Robin's course on individuals' lives are shared.

Meaningful Relationships and Their Impact

In this segment, the importance of robust and meaningful relationships is discussed, highlighting how they contribute to a fulfilling life and societal well-being.

Robust Meaningful Relationships

  • Meaningful relationships enrich life experiences, leading to a fuller existence.
  • Relationships span a continuum from mere contact to dysfunction, emphasizing the need for quality over quantity in connections.
  • Exceptional relationships possess distinct characteristics that enhance personal growth and fulfillment.

Benefits of Building Strong Relationships

This part delves into the advantages individuals gain by nurturing robust and exceptional relationships, showcasing their impact on personal and professional success.

Advantages of Strong Relationships

  • Developing skills to enhance relationships can lead to functional and robust connections.
  • Interpersonal competence is crucial for both personal and professional achievements.
  • Testimonials reveal how improved relationships positively influence career advancements, business success, and personal reconciliation.

The Significance of Interpersonal Dynamics Class

Exploring the Touchy Feely or Interpersonal Dynamics class at Stanford Business School, focusing on its role in enhancing interpersonal skills for leadership effectiveness.

Interpersonal Dynamics Class Insights

  • The course's impact transcends business success, influencing personal relationships profoundly.
  • Students learn to connect effectively with others, fostering trust and closeness for improved interactions.

Building a Sustainable Legacy

In this segment, the speaker discusses the importance of building a sustainable long-term legacy by becoming a referent figure in people's lives.

Becoming a Referent Figure

  • By showing up in a way that others see you as a referent figure, individuals are more likely to be open to your influence and work harder towards shared goals.

Experiential Learning in Leadership Development

The discussion focuses on the unique approach of experiential learning in leadership development programs.

Experiential Learning Approach

  • Experiential learning involves uncomfortable tasks to facilitate effective learning beyond traditional lectures.

Learning through Interaction and Reflection

This part emphasizes the significance of interactions and reflections in the learning process.

Small Group Dynamics

  • Participants engage in T groups for hands-on learning experiences, where they make choices and reflect on their interactions with guidance.

Enhancing Relationships through Disclosure

The speaker highlights the role of disclosure in building relationships and deepening connections.

Importance of Disclosure

  • Encouraging disclosure leads to deeper understanding and connection between individuals, fostering growth and trust.

Leadership Development Programs: Leaders in Tech

Introduction to "Leaders in Tech," a program aimed at developing leaders outside traditional educational settings.

Leaders in Tech Program

People Development and Relationship Building

In this section, the speaker discusses a program that was initially for founders but expanded to include others interested in personal development. The importance of vulnerability and reciprocal disclosure in building relationships is highlighted.

Touchy-Feely Program Expansion

  • The program initially targeted founders but expanded to include individuals who were not founders but still desired personal growth.
  • A condensed 4-day version of the program was introduced for those outside the founder category, emphasizing the need to be a manager and in tech.

Building Stronger Relationships

  • Emphasizes the value of engaging with the program's book collaboratively with someone else to enhance relationship development.
  • Details on how to apply for the program and mentions upcoming deadlines for enrollment.

Progressive Disclosure and Stepping Outside Comfort Zones

This part delves into concepts like progressive disclosure, stepping outside comfort zones, and the 15% Rule as essential elements in fostering deeper connections.

Progressive Disclosure

  • Discusses how vulnerability through disclosure can lead to reciprocal sharing, enhancing relationships.
  • Encourages experimenting with disclosing more about oneself while being attuned to individual responses for effective communication.

Stepping Outside Comfort Zones

  • Introduces the 15% Rule as a strategy to expand comfort zones gradually without overwhelming oneself or others.
  • Explains how stepping slightly beyond comfort zones fosters learning, growth, and stronger interpersonal bonds.

Appropriate Vulnerability in Communication

This segment emphasizes appropriate vulnerability in communication by providing examples of disclosures that build credibility without compromising professionalism.

Appropriate Disclosure Examples

  • Stresses context-dependent appropriate disclosure tailored to specific audiences for effective communication.

New Section

In this section, the speaker reflects on the challenges faced by their organization and emphasizes the importance of vulnerability in leadership.

Reflection on Business Challenges

  • The speaker acknowledges a decline in market share for three consecutive months, expressing uncertainty about the cause and solution.

Importance of Vulnerability in Leadership

  • Leaders were traditionally discouraged from showing vulnerability or emotions in the workplace.
  • Being vulnerable can make a leader stronger and more influential.

New Section

The speaker shares a personal anecdote to illustrate the power of vulnerability in leadership development.

Personal Anecdote: Embracing Vulnerability

  • In 1975, as the first woman in a non-clerical role at a large company, the speaker learned to suppress emotions at work.
  • A pivotal moment occurred during an offsite meeting when she displayed vulnerability by crying, leading to open discussions among team members.

New Section

Practical advice is provided on how leaders can incorporate vulnerability into their leadership style.

Practical Tips for Leaders

  • Admitting mistakes openly can enhance credibility and trust within teams.
  • Experimenting with sharing feelings and being more vulnerable can foster deeper connections with team members.

Detailed Discussion on Emotions and Relationships

In this segment, the speaker delves into the complexities of emotions, relationships, and the impact of social media on human interactions.

Exploring Emotional Dynamics

  • Social media's negative impact on relationships and learning.
  • Understanding anger as a secondary emotion rooted in fear or hurt.
  • Effective leadership through vulnerability and emotional honesty.

Unpacking Emotional Responses

  • Recognizing different emotions beyond anger for deeper connections.
  • Anger as a distancing emotion; importance of vulnerability in business.

Challenging Mental Models

  • Reevaluating early career mental models for personal growth.
  • Need for new experiences to update ingrained mental models.

Impact of Mental Models on Personal Growth

This part focuses on how entrenched mental models can hinder personal development and the necessity of updating beliefs for continued growth.

Common Mental Model Challenges

  • Fear of vulnerability leading to misconceptions about openness.

Understanding Feedback Dynamics

In this section, the speaker discusses the concept of feedback as a dial rather than a switch, emphasizing the importance of giving feedback effectively without damaging relationships.

Feedback as a Dial

  • Feedback should be seen as adjusting dials rather than binary switches, allowing for nuanced communication.
  • Many individuals fear that providing feedback will harm relationships due to past negative experiences with poorly delivered feedback.
  • Learning to give feedback constructively is crucial for building and maintaining strong relationships.
  • Addressing minor issues early (pinches) prevents them from escalating into significant problems (crunches).

The Three Realities in Feedback

The speaker introduces the concept of three realities in interpersonal exchanges, highlighting the importance of understanding different perspectives in communication.

Three Realities Model

  • In any interaction, there are three realities: personal intent, verbal/non-verbal behavior, and the impact on the other person.
  • Failure to recognize these distinct realities can lead to misunderstandings and communication breakdowns.
  • Individuals are only aware of their own intent and actions; understanding others' perspectives requires empathy and active listening.

Terrible Town and Miscommunication

The speaker discusses a situation where miscommunication arises due to attributions and imputed motives rather than expressing feelings directly.

Terrible Town Incident

  • The speaker mentions a new Nursery School that closed before opening, leading to frustration.

Communication Breakdown

  • Miscommunication occurs when attributions are made instead of expressing feelings directly.
  • Feedback should focus on personal feelings rather than attributing motives to avoid defensiveness.

Constructive Feedback and Understanding Feelings

The importance of expressing personal feelings in communication and providing constructive feedback is highlighted.

Expressing Feelings

  • Lack of feeling heard leads to hurt and distance in relationships.
  • Formula for effective communication: "When you do [Behavior], I feel [Feeling]."

Problem-Solving Conversations and Constructive Feedback

Engaging in problem-solving conversations through constructive feedback is crucial for effective communication.

Problem-Solving Approach

  • Moving into problem-solving conversations instead of changing the other person is key.
  • Constructive feedback aims at finding behaviors that work better for both parties.

Structured Communication Approach

Structured communication approach emphasizing emotions and feelings for effective engagement.

Structured Communication

  • Utilizing a structured approach involving behaviors and emotions enhances relationship building.
  • Vocabulary of feelings plays a significant role in improving communication skills.

Practical Application and Resources

Practical application of structured communication methods and available resources for further learning.

Practical Application

  • Accessing online resources or books can aid in mastering effective communication techniques.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of providing feedback and distinguishes between constructive and complimentary feedback.

Feedback Types

  • Negative feedback is reframed as either constructive or complimentary.
  • Complimentary feedback example: Acknowledging early report submissions with appreciation.
  • All feedback, whether constructive or complimentary, is valuable data for improvement.
  • Focus on interpersonal feedback rather than performance or task-related feedback.
  • Importance of addressing interpersonal issues to prevent unresolved conflicts affecting other feedback channels.

New Section

This segment delves into the significance of effective communication in receiving and giving feedback within a workplace setting.

Communication Dynamics

  • Illustrative scenario of ineffective communication during a meeting where one person dominates discussions.
  • Impact of being ignored in a conversation leading to reluctance in sharing opinions.
  • Emphasizing the importance of addressing behavioral issues through private conversations for mutual growth and understanding.

New Section

The discussion shifts towards the role of feedback in nurturing relationships and fostering personal growth through open dialogue.

Relationship Building

  • Example of providing constructive criticism privately to enhance mutual understanding and respect.
  • Feedback aids in resolving conflicts and strengthening relationships by addressing underlying issues constructively.

New Section

The focus transitions to the concept of building emotional intelligence through active listening and inquiry techniques for improved interpersonal connections.

Emotional Intelligence Development

  • Feedback serves as a tool for enhancing relationships by demonstrating care and concern for personal growth.
  • Importance of developing an "antenna" for self-awareness and empathy towards others' feelings.

New Section

Exploring the art of inquiry as a fundamental element in fostering strong interpersonal relationships through genuine curiosity and open-mindedness.

Artful Inquiry Techniques

  • Inquiry involves genuine curiosity without preconceived notions, aiming to learn from others' perspectives openly.

Understanding Effective Communication Strategies

In this section, the importance of effective communication strategies in avoiding unproductive conversations is discussed. Different approaches to initiating discussions and questions that can lead to productive outcomes are highlighted.

Importance of Questions in Communication

  • Asking questions like "What's this about?" or "How might we go about unpacking what's going on?" can lead to more productive conversations.
  • People have the capacity to change their behaviors through learning and practice, as highlighted by Carol Dweck's concept of mindset.

Behavior Change and Personality Traits

  • While personalities are innate and cannot be changed, behaviors can be modified through conscious effort and discipline.
  • Engaging in behavior change requires active listening, allowing others to express themselves without dominating the conversation.

Navigating Defensive Reactions in Communication

This segment delves into handling defensive reactions during communication effectively. It emphasizes taking ownership of one's choices and responses rather than attributing limitations to external factors.

Ownership and Choice in Communication

  • Encouraging individuals to acknowledge that their responses are choices they make empowers them to take responsibility for their reactions.

Building Essential Communication Skills

The discussion shifts towards developing essential communication skills that facilitate constructive dialogues while minimizing defensive reactions.

Skill Development for Effective Communication

  • Emphasizing the importance of skill development rather than guaranteeing successful outcomes in communication interactions.
  • Highlighting the significance of learning how to repair communication breakdowns when interactions do not proceed as intended.

Enhancing Interpersonal Relationships Through Effective Feedback

This part focuses on enhancing interpersonal relationships through effective feedback mechanisms that promote understanding and minimize defensiveness.

Repairing Communication Breakdowns

  • Demonstrating the power of reflective questioning ("What did you hear me say?") in clarifying misinterpretations during conversations.

Relationships and Learning Activities

In this section, the speaker discusses various exercises used in classes to enhance learning and deepen understanding.

Examples of Learning Exercises

  • Every chapter in the book includes a "deepen your learning" section with suggested activities.
  • Practical application exercises are derived from classroom activities, providing tactical ways to apply knowledge.
  • Role-playing scenarios are utilized, such as giving feedback to others and exploring desired outcomes of conversations.

Effective Leadership Strategies

The speaker delves into leadership strategies that focus on communication and decision-making processes.

Communication Techniques

  • Role-playing involves understanding behaviors, emotions, and desired outcomes in conversations.
  • Emphasizes using specific feelings rather than vague statements like "I feel that," for effective communication.

Leadership Mentality and Advice Dynamics

This part explores mental models related to leadership mentality and the dynamics of giving advice within relationships.

Leadership Mentality Insights

  • Leaders should avoid believing they must have all answers; focus on finding the best solutions regardless of the source.
  • Encourages leaders to foster an environment where diverse perspectives can surface for better problem-solving.

Advice Dynamics in Relationships

Advice Giving and Inquiry

In this segment, the speaker discusses the approach to giving advice and the importance of inquiry before offering guidance.

Approach to Advice Giving

  • The speaker highlights the annoyance that unsolicited advice can cause and emphasizes the need for permission before giving advice.
  • It is suggested to prioritize inquiry over immediate advice-giving by asking questions to understand the situation better.
  • The speaker reflects on resisting the urge to provide advice immediately and stresses the value of exploring the individual's thoughts first.

Constructive Perspective on Failure

This part delves into a positive perspective on failure and learning from setbacks.

Learning from Failure

  • The acronym "AOG" (Another Opportunity for Growth) is introduced as a constructive way to view failures.
  • Embracing failures as learning opportunities is emphasized, highlighting that every failure presents a chance for growth.
  • Viewing failures as stepping stones for personal development is encouraged, promoting a mindset shift towards growth.

Building Exceptional Relationships

The discussion centers around building strong relationships through specific characteristics and fostering growth within them.

Characteristics of Exceptional Relationships

  • Six key characteristics of exceptional relationships are outlined, including mutual understanding, trust, honesty, conflict resolution skills, and commitment to growth.

Leadership Lessons and Personal Growth

In this section, the speaker discusses leadership lessons learned over the past 20 months, emphasizing the importance of not making an organization overly dependent on oneself for long-term sustainability. The speaker reflects on transitioning from operational duties to an advisory role and highlights personal growth through acceptance and empathy.

Leadership Lessons Learned

  • The speaker has gradually delegated responsibilities to team members, aiming to transition into solely an advisory role by the end of the year.
  • Emphasizes the significance of not being indispensable in an organization for its long-term success and legacy.
  • Reflects on acceptance as a tool for reframing beliefs and enhancing empathy, distinguishing it from resignation.
  • Acknowledges personal growth in becoming more empathetic through accepting change and reframing perspectives.

Interpersonal Dynamics and Self-Disclosure

  • Stresses the importance of avoiding assumptions about others' situations in interpersonal interactions.
  • Advocates for self-disclosure to control how others perceive you, highlighting its role in fostering understanding and connection.

Closing Remarks and Contact Information

In this final segment, the speaker expresses gratitude for the opportunity to share insights. They provide information on how listeners can connect with them professionally while emphasizing boundaries regarding sales pitches due to previous experiences.

Professional Connections

  • Encourages connecting via email for professional inquiries rather than direct sales pitches.
  • Requests respectful communication considering their limited capacity due to health reasons post-COVID.

Closing Appreciation

Video description

Carole Robin spent over 20 years teaching the Stanford Graduate School of Business course Interpersonal Dynamics, affectionately known as “Touchy Feely.” After leaving Stanford, she founded a nonprofit called Leaders in Tech, which applies the Touchy Feely principles to help Silicon Valley executives build their leadership and interpersonal skills. Carole co-authored the popular book Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues, which shares key insights from her decades of teaching these courses. In our conversation, we discuss: • The benefits of building robust relationships, in life and work • The 15% rule, and how it will help you build better relationships • The power of vulnerability • Examples of how to practice vulnerability • Why mental models you build early in life hold you back later • The “three realities” and “the net” • The art of inquiry • Practical tips for avoiding defensiveness when getting feedback • The impact of long Covid on Carole’s life — Brought to you by: • Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments: https://www.geteppo.com/ • CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users: https://www.commandbar.com/lenny • The a16z Podcast—Featuring conversations with the founders and technologists shaping our future: https://link.chtbl.com/qLhgyi65 Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/build-robust-relationships-carole-robin Where to find Carole Robin: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carole-robin/ • Email: carolerobinllc@gmail.com Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Carole’s background (05:17) The importance of building robust relationships (10:20) The “Touchy Feely” course at Stanford (13:29) An example of the in-class experience (17:19) Leaders in Tech: developing interpersonal competence (21:36) Progressive disclosure and the 15% rule (24:28) Appropriate disclosure (26:52) The power of vulnerability (34:57) Admitting mistakes and sharing feelings (37:08) Understanding mental models (42:57) The “three realities” framework (53:52) The power of feedback and personal change (58:47) The art of inquiry (01:03:27) How to get better at giving feedback (01:07:47) Exercises and continued learning (01:10:49) “Advice hinders relationships” (01:16:49) Failure corner: AFOG (01:20:30) Takeaways (01:21:51) Lessons from long Covid Referenced: • How to Build Better Relationships: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/how-build-better-relationships • Connect: Building Exceptional Relationships with Family, Friends, and Colleagues: https://www.amazon.com/Connect-Building-Exceptional-Relationships-Colleagues-ebook/dp/B0894279WZ • Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/ • Leaders in Tech Fellows: https://leadersintech.org/learnaboutfellows • Steve Jobs: https://www.forbes.com/profile/steve-jobs/ • Sheryl Sandberg on X: https://twitter.com/sherylsandberg • Ursula Burns: https://www.forbes.com/profile/ursula-burns/ • Application for Leaders in Tech: https://leadersintech.org/programs-and-applications • Vygotsky’s Zone of Proximal Development and Scaffolding Theory: https://www.simplypsychology.org/zone-of-proximal-development.html • The Best Leaders Aren’t Afraid to Be Vulnerable: https://hbr.org/2022/07/the-best-leaders-arent-afraid-of-being-vulnerable • The Surprising Benefits of Admitting Mistakes: 5 Ways to Build Intellectual Humility: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tracybrower/2021/12/29/the-surprising-benefits-of-admitting-mistakes-5-ways-to-build-intellectual-humility/ • How to Build Conflict Skills—The Pinch/Crunch Model: https://www.forbes.com/sites/hannahart/2023/12/15/how-to-build-conflict-skills-the-pinchcrunch-model/ • Slides mentioned (The Three Realities Framework | The 15% Rule | Feedback Guidelines): https://www.notion.so/pen-name/Carole-Robin-on-Lenny-s-Podcast-dc7159208e4242428f4b11ebc92285eb • Mindset: The New Psychology of Success: https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322 • Management Time: Who’s Got the Monkey?: https://hbr.org/1999/11/management-time-whos-got-the-monkey • Long COVID: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00846-2 • Leadership, acceptance, and self-management: my journey with long COVID: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/leadership-acceptance-self-management-my-journey-long-carole-robin/ Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.