Dr. Gina Poe: Use Sleep to Enhance Learning, Memory & Emotional State | Huberman Lab Podcast

Name: Dr. Gina Poe: Use Sleep to Enhance Learning, Memory & Emotional State | Huberman Lab Podcast
Uploaded: 2024-03-31T15:52:18.571Z
Duration: 4 h 10 min 41 s

Introduction

In this section, Andrew Huberman introduces the podcast and his guest, Dr. Gina Poe. He provides an overview of her research on sleep and learning.

Introducing Dr. Gina Poe

Dr. Gina Poe is a professor at UCLA who studies the relationship between sleep and learning.

Her research focuses on how specific patterns of brain activity during different phases of sleep impact our ability to learn and remember information.

She also studies how specific phases of sleep can act as trauma therapy by discarding emotional tones of memories.

Additionally, her lab investigates how specific phases of sleep impact the release of growth hormone, which plays critical roles in metabolism and tissue repair.

The Importance of Sleep Timing for Growth Hormone Release

In this section, Andrew Huberman discusses with Dr. Gina Poe the importance of getting adequate growth hormone release during sleep.

Getting Adequate Growth Hormone Release

Getting growth hormone release during sleep is critical to our immediate and long-term health.

It's not just the duration and depth of your sleep that matter but actually getting to sleep at relatively the same time each night ensures that you get adequate growth hormone release in the first hours of sleep.

If you go to bed two hours later than your typical bedtime on any given night, you miss the window for growth hormone release.

Critical brain circuits and endocrine circuits regulate not just the duration, depth, quality, and timing of sleep but when we place our bout of sleep strongly dictates whether or not we will experience all the health-promoting benefits.

Using Sleep to Optimize Learning

In this section, Andrew Huberman discusses with Dr. Gina Poe how to use sleep in order to optimize learning.

Optimizing Learning

Specific phases of sleep can impact our ability to learn and remember information.

Getting adequate sleep is important for consolidating memories, but the timing of sleep is also critical.

Sleep after learning helps consolidate memories, but sleep before learning can also help prepare the brain for new information.

Naps can be used to improve memory consolidation and retrieval.

LMNT Electrolyte Drink

In this section, Andrew Huberman talks about LMNT electrolyte drink.

LMNT Electrolyte Drink

LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't. It contains plenty of salt, magnesium, and potassium, which are critical to the function of every cell in your body.

Neurons require adequate sodium and potassium as well as magnesium in order to fire action potentials, which are the electrical signals that allow neurons to do everything from generating focus and attention to allowing you to learn.

The Importance of Sleep and Mattresses

In this section, Andrew Huberman talks about the importance of sleep and how it affects our mental health, physical health, and performance. He also introduces two mattress companies that can help improve the quality of our sleep.

Helix Mattress

Helix offers a personalized mattress based on your body type and sleep preferences.

Take their brief two-minute quiz to match you with the perfect mattress for you.

The Dusk Mattress is one option that has transformed Andrew's sleep in ways that make him feel far better during the daytime.

Go to helixsleep.com/huberman for up to $350 off any mattress order and two free pillows.

Eight Sleep Mattress Cover

Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity.

Controlling the temperature of your sleeping environment is absolutely key to falling asleep and staying asleep.

You can program your sleep mattress cover so that it's the optimal temperature not just for you but for each phase of your sleep.

Go to eightsleep.com/huberman to save $150 at checkout.

Momentous Supplements

In this section, Andrew Huberman introduces Momentous Supplements as a partner of The Huberman Lab podcast.

To find supplements discussed on The Huberman Lab podcast, go to livemomentous.com/huberman.

The library of those supplements is constantly expanding.

Understanding Sleep Phases

In this section, Dr. Gina Poe explains what happens during different stages of sleep.

Non-REM Sleep

There are two major states of sleep: non-REM and REM.

Non-REM has three stages: stage one, which is what you slip into when you first fall asleep; stage two, which is a deeper sleep; and stage three, which is the deepest sleep.

REM Sleep

REM stands for rapid eye movement.

During this phase, your eyes move rapidly back and forth while your body remains still.

This is the phase where most dreaming occurs.

The Four States of Sleep

In this section, Gina Poe explains the four states of sleep and how they cycle through every 90 minutes.

The Four States of Sleep

There are four states of human sleep: stage one, stage two, deep slow wave sleep state, and REM sleep.

We cycle through these states every 90 minutes or so when we go to sleep.

Our first REM sleep period comes about 105 minutes after we fall asleep and lasts about 20 minutes.

A perfect night's sleep is seven and a half to eight hours with about five cycles.

Can You Oversleep?

In this section, Gina Poe discusses whether or not it is possible to oversleep and how much sleep people need on average.

How Much Sleep Do People Need?

Different people seem to need different amounts of sleep, but we don't really know exactly what sleep is for.

Most people build up a cognitive deficit if they consistently deprive themselves of sleep so that they're only sleeping for four and a half hours a night.

The more nights you have with sleep deprivation, the more cognitive deficit you have. And so you need more sleep to recover.

Can You Oversleep?

People who consistently get over nine hours of sleep may have an underlying problem such as cancer or obstructive apnea.

It's unlikely that someone can oversleep since the body will naturally regulate itself by building up homeostatic need if you wake up too early.

Introduction to Sleep Architecture

Andrew Huberman and Gina Poe discuss the architecture of a perfect night's sleep. They talk about the different stages of sleep, including REM and non-REM sleep, and how they affect our cognitive function.

Stages of Sleep

The first 90 minutes of sleep is consumed with slow wave sleep.

REM sleep arrives at about 95 minutes in.

Stage one and stage two of sleep are where we are lightly asleep, and we might have a dream that has us somehow thinking about movement or that we jolt ourselves awake.

Sleep spindles are a little bit of activity that's 10 to 15 hertz in frequency. It's a conversation between the thalamus and the cortex.

Falling Asleep

In stage one and stage two our muscles are relaxing. And if there's part of our brain that's conscious enough to sort of recognize that relaxation, we'll feel like we're falling, and we'll jerk awake.

Elevating feet can help fall asleep faster.

Early Stages of Sleep

The first four hours of sleep are very important for memory processing.

There is some evidence that the first four hours of sleep are very important for memory processing.

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Memory Consolidation During Sleep

In this section, the speakers discuss how memories are consolidated during sleep and the role of different hormones in this process.

Memory Consolidation During Sleep

Memories are consolidated during sleep, with subsequent REM sleep periods moving the memory from the hippocampus to different areas of the cortex.

A study by Siddhartha Ribeiro found that memories move throughout the sleep period.

Different hormones are associated with different stages of sleep, including melatonin which makes us sleepy.

Growth hormone release occurs during deep, slow wave sleep in the first cycle of sleep and is important for synthesizing proteins and building memories.

Missing the first cycle of deep, slow wave sleep can result in missing out on a big bolus of growth hormone release which is important for encoding big memories.

The Importance of Consistent Bedtimes

In this section, the speakers discuss why consistent bedtimes are important for good neurological health.

The Importance of Consistent Bedtimes

Every cell in our body has a clock that is normally synchronized. Circadian clocks are also synchronized so our cells are ready to respond to growth hormone release at a particular time.

If we miss the first phase of deep, slow wave sleep where growth hormone is released, we might get some growth hormone release but it's occurring at a time when our clock has already moved to the next phase.

Having fairly consistent bedtimes and wake times is important for good neurological health as it helps keep our circadian rhythms synchronized.

The Importance of the First Stage of Sleep

In this section, Andrew Huberman and Gina Poe discuss the importance of the first stage of sleep and how certain factors can affect its effectiveness.

Factors Affecting the First Stage of Sleep

Alcohol is a REM sleep suppressant and can suppress some of that stage two transition to REM with those sleep spindles.

It is recommended not to ingest alcohol within four to six hours preceding sleep or at all for better quality sleep.

The Second and Third 90-Minute Blocks of Sleep

In this section, Andrew Huberman and Gina Poe discuss the unique characteristics of the second and third 90-minute blocks of sleep.

Characteristics of Later Stages of Sleep

There is more REM sleep in later stages.

Hormone levels change, with growth hormone and melatonin levels starting to decline while other hormones are picking up.

Studies show that these stages are when creativity can happen, dreams can incorporate old and new things into a new way, and schema are built.

Understanding Schema

In this section, Andrew Huberman asks Gina Poe to elaborate on schema.

Definition of Schema

Schema refers to related concepts sewn together into one thread. It's like having a schema for Christmas where we have all kinds of ideas that were so together called Christmas.

Examples

When you're in REM sleep in later parts of the night, your brain's computer opens folders and compares documents.

Waking up in the middle of the night

In this section, Andrew and Gina discuss waking up in the middle of the night and whether it is normal or not.

Middle of the Night Waking

Many people wake up once during the middle of the night to use the restroom.

It is normal to wake up at least once in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom.

As long as you can get back to sleep in a reasonable amount of time, don't worry about it.

If you have a lifestyle that allows you to make up for lost sleep, then there's no need to worry about waking up in the middle of the night.

Catching Up on Sleep

In this section, Andrew and Gina discuss catching up on sleep after waking up in the middle of the night.

Catching Up on Sleep

If you wake up in the middle of the night and go back to sleep, you cannot catch up on that missed sleep.

However, you can gather all that missed sleep by sleeping longer or going to bed earlier.

When Andrew goes back to sleep after waking up in the middle of the night, his dreams are incredibly vivid.

REM Sleep vs Slow Wave Sleep

In this section, Andrew and Gina discuss REM sleep and slow wave sleep.

REM Sleep vs Slow Wave Sleep

In second half of our sleeping period we have longer REM periods which are considered deeper than slow wave sleep.

Slow wave sleep is considered deep because it's difficult to arouse people out of that state.

If you give someone a non-threatening kind of stimulation like somebody dropping keys, or a ping, or something like that, instead of waking-- that same volume will wake someone up out of non-REM sleep but out of REM sleep and instead lengthen the amount of time or make it even more dense-- your rapid eye movements more dense.

Understanding Sleep Stages

In this section, the speakers discuss the different stages of sleep and their characteristics.

Characteristics of REM Sleep

During the second half of the night, there is an enhanced volume or proportion of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep.

During REM sleep, we are paralyzed to prevent us from acting out our dreams.

Acting out dreams during REM sleep can be dangerous, so it's important that our muscles are inactivated during this stage.

Characteristics of Slow Wave Sleep

Slow waves aren't as large in children and may be problematic.

Fire alarms don't wake children up from deep slow wave sleep.

Slow wave sleep is a mixture between sleep and wakefulness.

Differences Between Sleepwalking and REM Sleep

Sleepwalking occurs during slow wave sleep and is a mixture between sleep and wakefulness.

In contrast, during REM sleep, we are cut off from the outside world and not processing external stimuli.

Talking in Your Sleep

In this section, the speakers discuss talking in your sleep and whether it has any meaning.

Talking in Your Sleep

Talking in your sleep does not necessarily reflect truth or have any meaning.

It's important not to take what someone says while they're talking in their sleep seriously.

The Importance of Waking Up Naturally

In this section, Andrew Huberman and Gina Poe discuss the importance of waking up naturally without an alarm clock. They explain how sleep cycles work and why it's important to wait for a complete cycle before waking up.

Waking Up Without an Alarm Clock

Gina Poe recommends that people listen to their body and wake up when they need to.

Sleep inertia occurs when we wake up out of deep slow wave sleep, which can cause grogginess.

It's better to wait until the 90-minute cycle is complete before waking up.

Setting an alarm clock for around 90 minutes is recommended because the first stage of sleep is longer.

Sleep Trackers

In this section, Andrew Huberman and Gina Poe discuss sleep trackers and their effectiveness in measuring sleep quality. They also talk about the importance of trusting your own physiology.

Effectiveness of Sleep Trackers

The best sleep trackers are about 70% effective at staging your sleep.

Combining subjective and objective data is probably best when using a sleep tracker.

People often bias their sense of daytime wakefulness based on their sleep score more than their subjective score.

Trusting your own physiology and the way your body feels is important because subcortical structures can be in a completely different sleep state than cortical structures.

Introduction to Sleep and Brain Function

In this section, the speakers discuss the importance of understanding brain function during sleep. They also introduce the possibility of detecting changes in cortical EEG that could inform us about subcortical structures.

Importance of Understanding Brain Function During Sleep

The cortex is important for many things, but it doesn't necessarily tell us what other important parts of the brain are doing during sleep.

Subtle changes in cortical EEG may be able to tell us what subcortical structures are doing.

Backwards machine learning from people or animals with depth electrodes could help us gain insight into what the cortex might be able to tell us about subcortical structures.

The Architecture of Night Sleep

In this section, the speakers discuss how slow waves during sleep help clean out debris and unfolded proteins in the brain.

Washout During Sleep

Slow wave sleep helps clean out misfolded and unfolded proteins that accumulate during wakefulness.

During wakefulness, ATP is used to unfold proteins while we learn. Slow wave sleep rebuilds ATP levels and cleans out debris through deep slow waves.

Neurons expand when they fire, which happens less frequently as we age. Slow waves cause neurons to contract and expand at the same time, acting like a bilge pump to clean out debris.

Conclusion

Understanding brain function during sleep is crucial for maintaining good health. Slow wave sleep plays an important role in cleaning out debris and unfolded proteins that accumulate during wakefulness. By detecting subtle changes in cortical EEG, we may be able to gain insight into what subcortical structures are doing during sleep.

The Importance of Sleep

In this section, Andrew Huberman and Gina Poe discuss the importance of sleep and how it affects our cognition.

The Bilge Pump

Lack of sleep can cause a buildup of waste products in the brain, making it harder for people to move around and enjoy themselves.

Slow Wave Sleep

Slow wave sleep occurs in the first third of the night.

Inhibiting slow wave sleep can be detrimental to cognitive function.

Delayed Sleep Cycle

Going to bed later than usual can delay the washout process, causing N2 NREM sleep instead of slow wave sleep.

People who normally go to bed late and wake up late should still aim to get their first bit of sleep early in order to maintain healthy circadian rhythms.

Morning Sunlight vs Night Owls

In this section, Andrew Huberman discusses how waking up early and getting morning sunlight is better for overall health than being a night owl.

Health Metrics

Studies suggest that waking up near sunrise and going to bed within four hours after sunset is better for overall health than being a night owl.

Despite this data, some people still function better staying up late and waking up late.

Personal Experience

Andrew Huberman notices that his mood, alertness, and productivity are much higher when he wakes up earlier and goes to bed earlier.

Gina Poe admits she is a night owl but acknowledges that going to bed earlier and waking up earlier would be better for her health as well.

Child Alarm Clock

Having a child can help night owls maintain healthy circadian rhythms by waking them up early.

Going to bed soon after children go to bed and waking up with them is a good way for night owls to adjust their sleep schedules.

Sleep and Animals

In this section, the speakers discuss how different animals sleep and how it affects their behavior. They also talk about the relationship between pets and sleep.

Predatory Animals' Sleep Patterns

Predatory animals like dogs, cats, and lions can sleep up to 16 hours a day.

These predators are more crepuscular, meaning they are active at dawn and dusk.

Humans need less sleep than these predators but more than their prey.

Pets and Sleep

According to a poll by the National Sleep Foundation, pets are the number one thing that wakes people up at night.

Pets needing to go out or wanting attention can disrupt sleep more than anything else.

Nocturnal pets like hamsters should be kept away from where you sleep.

The Locus Coeruleus

In this section, the speakers discuss the locus coeruleus in detail. They explain what it is, what it does, and its relationship with epinephrine.

What is Locus Coeruleus?

Locus coeruleus is a structure in the brain filled with neurons that have norepinephrine (noradrenaline).

Every animal with a brain has a locus coeruleus.

Function of Locus Coeruleus

Norepinephrine helps prime us to respond to our environment.

It helps us do quick one-trial learning during stress responses.

Tonic activity during the day is good for sustained attention.

Relationship with Epinephrine

Locus coeruleus is related to epinephrine (adrenaline).

Norepinephrine is the brain's version of epinephrine.

Locus coeruleus helps us switch our attention and learn quickly from stimuli.

The Importance of REM Sleep and Locus Coeruleus

In this section, Gina Poe and Andrew Huberman discuss the importance of REM sleep and the role of the locus coeruleus in erasing synapses that are no longer useful.

REM Sleep and Synapse Erasure

During REM sleep, the locus coeruleus shuts off completely, allowing for the erasure of synapses that are no longer useful.

This process is important for lifelong learning as it allows us to refresh our "thumb drive" (short-term memory) by writing it to long-term memory structures in the cortex.

When noradrenaline is present, it helps strengthen synapses but does not allow for weakening of synapses which is also important for lifelong learning.

Role of Locus Coeruleus

The locus coeruleus releases norepinephrine and dopamine in the hippocampus which is important for learning something new.

Galanin is also released when we're stressed which helps with rapid learning.

Redundancy exists in biological systems because signaling attention to specific events is so important.

Complexity of Brain Hypotheses

Forming hypotheses about the brain can be difficult due to its complexity involving glia, neuropeptides, neurotransmitters, physical structure of synapses etc.

Neurons contain both neuropeptides and neurotransmitters along with hormones making it even more complicated.

Redundancy exists because all these systems need to work together.

Norepinephrine and Sleep

In this section, Gina Poe and Andrew Huberman discuss the relationship between norepinephrine and sleep, specifically rapid eye movement (REM) sleep. They also explore how post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) affects the locus coeruleus, a brain region that produces norepinephrine.

Norepinephrine in PTSD

People with PTSD have higher levels of norepinephrine during REM sleep.

This is because the locus coeruleus doesn't stop firing in REM sleep for people with PTSD.

Norepinephrine levels differentiate most from those without PTSD during the wee hours of the morning when there is the most REM sleep.

Heart rate variability is lower when the locus coeruleus is firing, which happens more often in people with PTSD.

Effects on Memory

When norepinephrine acts at synapses to prevent weakening of novelty encoding structures, it keeps memories in that structure even after consolidation to other parts of the brain.

The hippocampus needs to erase memories from novelty encoding structures so that new things can be learned once they are consolidated to other parts of the brain.

If traumatic memories are not erased from novelty encoding structures, they will stay fresh and become maladaptive.

Inside Tracker Sponsorship

Andrew Huberman briefly thanks one of their podcast sponsors, Inside Tracker. He explains how getting regular blood work done can help monitor markers such as hormone markers, lipids, metabolic factors etc., but most blood work does not come back with information on how to move values into desired ranges. Inside Tracker is a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from blood and DNA to help people better understand their bodies and reach their health goals.

Blood Work and Health Goals

Regular blood work can monitor hormone markers, lipids, metabolic factors, etc.

Most blood work does not come back with information on how to move values into desired ranges.

Inside Tracker is a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from blood and DNA to help people better understand their bodies and reach their health goals.

Inside Tracker and ApoB

This section discusses the importance of measuring apolipoprotein B (ApoB) for cardiovascular health.

Measuring ApoB with Inside Tracker

Inside Tracker now includes a measurement of ApoB, which is a key marker of cardiovascular health.

Knowing your ApoB levels can provide extreme value to your overall health.

Discount for Inside Tracker

If you'd like to try Inside Tracker, you can go to insidetracker.com/huberman to get 20% off any of their plans.

Trauma and Locus Coeruleus during Sleep

This section discusses how hyperactivity in the locus coeruleus during sleep can cause trauma to persist, even if someone gets enough sleep.

Importance of Sleep for Trauma Treatment

Getting enough sleep is emphasized as a key factor in treating trauma.

However, if the locus coeruleus is hyperactive during sleep, traumas may persist despite getting enough sleep.

Trauma Treatments and Sleep

Most trauma treatments range from cognitive behavioral therapy, talk therapy, drug therapy, EMDR, hypnosis.

There is currently a lot of interest in exploring psychedelics such as high dose psilocybin and MDMA for trauma treatment.

Psychedelics induce a REM-like state that could be beneficial for treating trauma.

Antidepressants and REM Sleep

This section discusses how antidepressants affect REM sleep and why they may not be recommended for those experiencing PTSD due to trauma.

Noradrenergic or Serotonergic Reuptake Inhibitors

Antidepressants are often noradrenergic or serotonergic reuptake inhibitors, which leave norepinephrine out in the synapses and inhibit REM sleep.

If someone is able to get REM sleep while taking antidepressants, it would likely be with some noradrenergic activity.

Counter Indication for Antidepressants

Antidepressants are counter indicated for those experiencing PTSD due to trauma because they may prevent the type of adaptive REM sleep needed to resolve emotions and move on.

SSRIs and Serotonin

SSRIs block specific serotonin from being reuptaken, leaving too much serotonin out there.

Serotonin is another neurotransmitter that's downregulated during REM sleep.

Too much serotonin can weight all of our cognition toward novelty, which could hold a novel traumatic memory in our novelty encoding structure too strongly already.

Effective Treatment for Trauma

This section discusses an effective treatment for trauma that does not erase the traumatic memory but causes a transition of what once was disturbing to eventually become just a boring old story.

Transitioning Traumatic Memory

An effective treatment for trauma does not erase the traumatic memory but causes a transition of what once was disturbing to eventually become just a boring old story.

Trauma treatments aim to cause this transition so that the traumatic memory no longer invades our thinking and sleeping states.

Sleep and Trauma

In this section, the speakers discuss the emotional load of traumas during sleep and ways to reduce norepinephrine release from locus coeruleus during rapid eye movement sleep.

Ways to Reduce Norepinephrine Release During REM Sleep

Avoid anything that might excite the nervous system prior to going to sleep, such as novelty or stress-inducing video games.

Enter sleep with as much calm as possible by doing deep breathing exercises or other calming activities.

Make sure your sympathetic nervous system is calm before you go to sleep. This can be achieved through meditation, deep breathing exercises, a warm bath, or reading a comforting book.

Going to sleep while anxious or hyped up could make your sleep maladaptive.

Estrogen's Protective Effect Against PTSD

Female rats have three phases of their estrus cycle where their locus coeruleus doesn't seem to calm down during REM sleep as much. Giving women something that contains estrogen after a trauma event could work really well because estrogen is protective against PTSD.

Retrospective studies show that women given a pill with estrogen in it were much less likely to get PTSD from trauma than those without. Testosterone can also be protective because it gets converted into estrogen in the brain.

Preliminary data suggests that there's something about estrogen that's helpful and protective against high locus coeruleus firing.

Sex Differences in Sleep

In this section, the speakers discuss sex differences in sleep and how hormonal phases affect women's sleeping patterns.

Women's Sleeping Patterns

Women at high estrogen, high hormonal phases of their estrus cycle or menstrual cycle sleep a lot less but that sleep is more efficient.

Sleep spindles are more dense and coherent across the brain areas during high hormonal phases. The theta cycle in the hippocampus important for one-year learning and also important during REM sleep is also bigger and juicier during the high hormonal phases.

Biological Sex as a Variable

The speakers discuss the trend of requiring biological sex as a variable in NIH-funded grants and the importance of studying hormones, not just sex.

Importance of Studying Hormones

Hormones have significant effects on behavior.

Puberty is a massive transformation largely driven by hormones.

Yoga nidra is a non-movement based practice that can help people enter a more relaxed state and enhance their ability to fall asleep quickly.

Insomnia and Relaxation Techniques

Insomnia can create a positive feedback loop of anxiety about sleep.

Relaxation techniques such as yoga nidra and transcendental meditation may help replace or mimic some functions of REM sleep, but more research is needed.

Transcendental Meditation

Transcendental meditation increases theta activity, which occurs during learning or REM sleep.

It is unclear if all neurochemistry necessary for erasing novelty encoding structures in the brain occurs during transcendental meditation.

Introduction to Non-Sleep Deep Rest (NSDR)

Andrew Huberman and Gina Poe discuss the misconceptions around NSDR and how it is a self-directed relaxation practice that allows people to get better at directing their brain states towards more relaxation. They also mention how prayer can be a way to calm oneself down.

Understanding NSDR

NSDR is a body scan deep relaxation-based practice that helps people direct their brain states towards more relaxation.

Most people have an asymmetry where they can ramp themselves up far more easily than they can tend to calm themselves down.

Prayer can be a wonderful way to calm oneself down, as it allows one to give their worries to God and relax.

The Scientific Version of Relaxation Practices

NSDR is the scientific version of all these practices, including yoga nidra, which tends to include intentions whereas NSDR scripts do not.

NSDR has no intentions and is simply a body scan deep relaxation-based practice.

Common Themes in Relaxation Practices

Different ways of tapping into biological architectures converge on a common theme of moving away from locus coeruleus activation and counteracting noradrenaline release.

Yawning might also be related to calming the locus coeruleus activity.

Special Operations Military Method for Sleep

Andrew Huberman talks about his work with the military and how certain communities within Special Operations use deliberate facial muscle relaxation and long exhale emphasized breathing techniques when having trouble sleeping.

Techniques for Better Sleep

Certain communities within Special Operations use deliberate facial muscle relaxation and long exhale emphasized breathing techniques when having trouble sleeping.

These techniques are similar to those used in yoga nidra, NSDR, and body scans.

Conclusion

Andrew Huberman and Gina Poe conclude their discussion on NSDR and how it is a scientific version of relaxation practices that can help people direct their brain states towards more relaxation.

Final Thoughts

NSDR is a self-directed relaxation practice that allows people to get better at directing their brain states towards more relaxation.

Different ways of tapping into biological architectures converge on a common theme of moving away from locus coeruleus activation and counteracting noradrenaline release.

Sleep Spindles and Creativity

In this section, Gina Poe discusses the role of sleep spindles in problem-solving and creativity. She explains that sleep spindles are correlated with intelligence and the ability to consolidate information during sleep. Additionally, she describes how sleep spindles promote plasticity in distal dendrites, which can lead to insight and creativity.

Sleep Spindle Density Correlated with Intelligence

The density of our sleep spindles is well-correlated with our intelligence.

If you're learning something during the day and increase your sleep spindle density, it's almost perfectly correlated with your ability to consolidate that information.

Sleep Spindles Promote Plasticity

During sleep spindles, distal dendrites are able to best learn from other cortical areas and from the hippocampus.

P waves and spindles work together to cause plasticity and sew our schema together which could be the origins for insight and creativity.

Schizophrenia & Poor Sleep Spindle Density

Interestingly, sleep spindles are poor in those with schizophrenia.

People with schizophrenia might not be able to incorporate new information into already existing schema.

PGO Waves & Glutamate Release

P waves (PGO waves) happen all over the brain where glutamate is being released in big amounts.

P waves and spindles work together to cause plasticity.

The Role of P Waves in REM Sleep Dreams

In this section, Gina Poe and Andrew Huberman discuss the role of P waves in REM sleep dreams. They explore how these waves could be responsible for the randomness of dreams and how they might also contribute to creativity.

P Waves and Randomness in Dreams

P waves are an internal source of excitation that replace the outside world during our dream state.

The pseudo-randomness of dreams, especially late-night and early-morning dreams, may be due to randomly activating different things in our brain through co-activating different areas.

PGO waves (pons-geniculo-occipital waves), which include lots of different areas of the brain, might be responsible for the visual component of dreams.

Creativity and P Waves

Randomly activating different things in our brain during REM sleep could be why creativity can happen there.

The pseudo-randomness of dreams allows us to cobble together disparate experiences, leading to creative insights.

Cognition During REM Sleep

In this section, Gina Poe and Andrew Huberman discuss a study that suggests some elements of cognition are still active during rapid eye movement (REM) sleep. They also explore lucid dreaming and its potential relationship with asymmetry between subcortical and cortical structures.

Problem Solving During REM Sleep

A study found that people can solve problems or respond to external stimuli while in REM sleep.

People who can lucid dream really well might spend more or less time in an asymmetrical state where one area of the brain is in one state and another area of the brain is in another.

The most asymmetrical or dissimilar people might be able to respond to questions during REM sleep.

Lucid Dreaming

It would be interesting to see if people who can lucid dream really well spend more or less time in an asymmetrical state where one area of the brain is in one state and another area of the brain is in another.

People are excited about lucid dreaming, but it's still a fad. Some worry that it could lead to people not getting enough restful sleep.

Lucid Dreaming and PTSD

In this section, the speaker discusses the potential benefits and drawbacks of lucid dreaming. They explore how it can be used as a tool to help individuals with PTSD overcome recurring nightmares.

Benefits and Drawbacks of Lucid Dreaming

Lucid dreaming may activate learning and memory structures in the brain, which could be maladaptive for erasing traumatic memories.

The hippocampus is not writing new memories during sleep, so lucid dreaming could interfere with this process.

Lucid dreaming can be used to change recurring nightmares by introducing new elements into the dream.

Lucid dreaming can be a powerful tool for individuals with PTSD to overcome recurring nightmares.

Protocol for Using Lucid Dreaming to Overcome Nightmares

A protocol was developed where individuals would cue themselves to a particular smell or tone in wakefulness, then try to recall a recurring nightmare during sleep.

The tone would play in the background during sleep, which would cue them to the wakeful state where they could try to change some variable in their dream.

After several nights of doing this, they would take time during waking hours to script out a different narrative altogether.

Understanding Dreams and Trauma Therapy

In this section, the speakers discuss how cues can help with repeated nightmares and how dreams can be used for trauma therapy. They also talk about the role of locus coeruleus in suppressing norepinephrine during REM sleep.

Cues for Repeated Nightmares

Cues such as sounds or odors can be used to cue a dreamer when they are going into REM sleep.

Rehearsing before going to sleep may help cue someone to a repeated nightmare, allowing them to remember it and figure out how to do something different.

Dreams and Trauma Therapy

The emotional load of recurring nightmares can be distressing, but dreaming is like built-in trauma therapy because most trauma therapies involve getting people into states counter to what most people think.

During emotionally laden thoughts and storylines during sleep, the locus coeruleus is suppressed so that we cannot release norepinephrine. This helps prevent us from acting out our dreams.

Waking-based trauma therapies involve taking people through cathartic experiences where they reach the peak of their emotional response before cycling down into a more relaxed state.

Bringing down your sympathetic nervous system before you go to sleep is key in making your sleep adaptive. This allows your locus release to shut off like it normally does or should do, enabling you to erase the novelty of traumatic events.

Emotional System in REM Sleep

The emotional system is highly activated in REM sleep, which might seem counterproductive in terms of nightmares and how to make REM sleep therapeutic rather than reinforcing the emotionality of trauma.

Without norepinephrine, you can divorce highly activated emotions from the cognitive parts of memory that you have just written out in that N2 stage of sleep when the sleep spindles are going.

Divorcing from the schema and semantic parts of memory, the emotional part is important because whenever you remember something, it's fine if you remember being emotional at the time. But you don't want to bring back and sew into that memory all of the same emotional systems.

The Role of REM Sleep in Emotional Memory Consolidation

In this section, the speakers discuss how emotional memories are consolidated during REM sleep and the role of norepinephrine in this process.

Emotional Memories Consolidation During REM Sleep

Traumatic memories are not recalled by people with PTSD because it is reliving the trauma.

Norepinephrine system is not downscaled during REM sleep, which reinforces and amplifies emotions.

Locus coeruleus releases norepinephrine to reinforce emotionality of memories.

Other Adrenergic Structures in the Brain

There are other adrenergic structures besides locus coeruleus that release norepinephrine.

Dorsal striatum is involved in procedural learning and motor learning, which can compensate for a compromised hippocampus.

Locus coeruleus does not project to dorsal striatum.

Adrenal Function and Its Effect on the Brain

Adrenals constrict blood vessels, increase blood pressure, help pump faster, perfuse muscles with blood, and divert blood away from parasympathetic system.

Connections between periphery and central nervous system have yet to be discovered.

It is unknown how independently activating adrenals affects the brain.

The Relationship Between Sleep and Opiate Use

In this section, Andrew Huberman asks Gina Poe about her recent work on the relationship between sleep and opiate use, withdrawal relapse, and craving.

Sleep Disturbance During Opiate Withdrawal Predicts Relapse Behaviors

When animals withdraw from opiates, their sleep is disturbed.

The amount of sleep disturbance predicts relapse behaviors.

Exogenous opiates bind strongly to receptors in the locus coeruleus that are normally responsive to endogenous opiates.

Long-term use of exogenous opiates reduces the number of receptors available for endogenous opiates to occupy.

Locus Coeruleus Struggles to Keep Us Awake After Long-Term Opiate Use

Long-term use of exogenous opiates leads to downregulation and internalization of receptors in the locus coeruleus.

This reduces the number of receptors available for endogenous opiates to occupy during withdrawal.

Without enough endogenous opiates to occupy these few receptors, our locus coeruleus struggles to keep us awake and learning during wakefulness.

Sleep Disturbance as an Indicator of Hyperactive Locus Coeruleus

Sleep disturbance may be an indicator of hyperactive locus coeruleus and a good predictor of relapse behaviors.

Exogenous stressors that activate our locus coeruleus can add to this high-stress state when there is nothing left to calm it down again.

Restoring Endogenous Receptors Could Help Calm Our Locus Coeruleus During Withdrawal

Research is ongoing into what could restore our own endogenous receptors so that they can properly calm our locus coeruleus once it has been tamped down by exogenous opiates.

Restoring endogenous receptors could be one way to access sleep disturbance during withdrawal.

Importance of Sleep for Learning and Memory

Sleep is important for learning and memory, and the structure of the 90-minute cycle is crucial for this.

Disturbance of sleep due to too much locus coeruleus activity can affect the structure and function of sleep spindles, theta during REM sleep, and the lack of norepinephrine.

Restoring Sleep in Animals Coming off Opiates

In this section, Andrew Huberman and Gina Poe discuss the possibility of restoring normal sleep in animals coming off opiates to reduce the likelihood of relapse. They also discuss ways for people to buffer their healthy normal sleep architecture during opiate withdrawal.

Restoring Normal Sleep

Can we restore normal sleep in animals coming off opiates?

This could potentially reduce the likelihood of relapse.

Results of studies on this topic are yet to be determined.

Buffering Healthy Normal Sleep Architecture During Withdrawal

It takes time to come off opiates and restore systems.

Buffering healthy normal sleep architecture can help accelerate recovery and shorten the period of withdrawal.

Ways to buffer healthy normal sleep architecture include:

Morning and daytime sunlight

Limiting bright light exposure

Lowering temperature at night

Breathing exercises, meditation, or other calming activities before bed

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