The ultimate guide to product operations | Melissa Perri and Denise Tilles

Interview Introduction

The hosts introduce the guests, Melissa Perri and Denise Tilles, authors of "Product Operations: How Successful Companies Build Better Products at Scale," discussing the importance of product operations in maximizing strategic work for product managers.

Importance of Product Operations

• Melissa Perri is a renowned figure in product management, known for her book "Escaping the Build Trap" and her work with numerous companies.

• Product operations has evolved into a crucial role in scaling tech companies, impacting the landscape of product management significantly.

• Discussion delves into defining the role of product ops, its distinctions from product and project management, and key considerations for implementing a product ops function effectively.

Role of Product Operations

Exploring the prevalence and significance of product operations within successful companies.

Popularity and Commonality of Product Ops

• Product operations has gained traction in recent years across various industries, becoming prevalent in leading companies like OpenAI, Uber, Stripe, Ramp, and Deal.

• Originating in larger corporations such as Uber and Stripe, the role has transitioned from obscurity to essentiality in enhancing overall product management functions.

• The emergence of mature product operations teams signifies a growing recognition of its value in streamlining processes and fostering efficient collaboration within organizations.

Adoption Rate Among Tech Companies

• While exact figures vary, an increasing number of fast-growing startups are incorporating product ops roles into their structures to optimize their product development processes.

The Evolution of Product Operations

The discussion revolves around the evolution of product operations, its increasing importance, and the benefits it brings to companies.

Evolution of Product Operations

• Product operations started gaining prominence after the publication of a book and through individuals like Blake at OpenAI who advocated for it.

• Pendo's focus on product ops around 2019 marked a significant uptick in its adoption within organizations.

Benefits of Product Operations

• Product ops helps product managers focus on strategic work by handling operational tasks like data management and implementation.

• Enables product managers to concentrate on company growth and achieving scaling goals by relieving them from operational burdens.

Transition Challenges for Product Managers

• Some product managers may fear delegating traditional PM tasks to product ops, worrying about potential inefficiencies or communication challenges.

• Emphasizes that product operations does not strip decision-making power from PMs but rather informs them, freeing up time for strategic decision-making.

Empowering Product Managers Through Product Operations

This segment delves into how product operations empowers product managers by alleviating operational burdens and enabling them to focus on core responsibilities.

Empowerment Through Streamlined Processes

• Product ops streamlines processes by taking over time-consuming tasks like data extraction, allowing PMs to dedicate more time to feature development and customer understanding.

General Roles of a Product Ops Person

In this section, the discussion revolves around the fundamental roles of a product ops person within a company, structured around three key pillars.

Three Pillars of Product Ops

• Business and data insights are crucial for providing quantitative inputs to product managers for informed decision-making.

• Customer and market insights focus on qualitative aspects, ensuring a deep understanding of customer needs and preferences.

• Process and practices play a vital role in optimizing operations and governance, tailored to address specific company needs and challenges.

Importance of Different Pillars in Product Ops

This segment delves into the significance of each pillar in product ops based on company size, growth stage, and operational requirements.

Impactful Pillars Based on Company Needs

• High-growth companies often prioritize business data and insights to monitor performance and drive strategic decisions efficiently.

• Larger enterprises undergoing transformations tend to focus more on process and governance to enhance operational efficiency in product development.

Customer & Market Insights in Product Ops

The discussion shifts towards the middle pillar of customer and market insights within product ops, emphasizing its importance alongside user research activities.

Integrating Customer Insights

• Customer and market insights form a critical but often overlooked aspect within product ops, highlighting room for growth in many companies.

Customer Insights and Product Management

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of customer insights in product management and how a new role, product ops, is emerging to streamline processes.

Customer Insights Communication

• Customer insights are crucial for product improvement.

• Qualitative information is often scattered across various systems within organizations.

• Product ops role is evolving to handle tasks that product managers may not excel at.

Evolution of Product Management

• Product ops role is becoming prevalent in many companies.

• Standardization of product manager roles as they become more critical for businesses.

Challenges Faced by Product Managers

This part delves into the challenges encountered by product managers due to increasing responsibilities and the need for specialized support roles.

Time Constraints and Scaling

• Limited time for additional tasks as responsibilities grow with company scaling.

• Dilemma between hiring more product managers or establishing a product operations team for efficiency.

Focus on Strategic Work

• Importance of concentrating on strategic work rather than peripheral tasks.

Role Clarity and Skill Development in Product Management

The discussion revolves around defining roles clearly, skill development, and the evolving expectations from product managers.

Skill Development vs. Specialization

• Balancing between learning technical skills like SQL and focusing on core responsibilities.

Role Allocation and Efficiency

• Delegating non-core tasks to specialized teams enhances productivity.

Understanding the Complexity of Product Management

Exploring the multifaceted nature of product management, including context switching, stakeholder engagement, and role expectations.

Context Switching Challenges

• Constant context switching required due to diverse interactions with stakeholders.

Role Expectations vs. Reality

Product Strategy and Operations in Product Management

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of product strategy and the role of product leaders in focusing on strategic aspects rather than operational tasks.

Prioritizing Strategy Over Operations

• Product leaders, including CPOs and VPs of product, often get caught up in operational tasks instead of focusing on strategy.

• Delegating operational tasks like roadmap templates to others frees up leaders to work on strategic initiatives.

• Emphasizes the need for the right people handling tasks to allow product managers to focus on decision-making and strategy.

Responsibilities of Product Managers vs. Product Ops

This part delves into delineating responsibilities between product managers and product operations personnel.

Role Differentiation

• Product managers should retain decision-making authority and not outsource it to product ops.

• The primary focus for product managers is operationalizing great product management while making decisions themselves.

• Product ops can assist with direction but should not make decisions or manage development progress.

Go-to-Market Strategies and Collaboration

The discussion shifts towards go-to-market strategies, emphasizing collaboration between product managers and product operations for effective execution.

Go-to-Market Collaboration

• Lists key responsibilities that remain with a PM: strategy, vision, prioritization, resource allocation, trade-off decisions, stakeholder conversations.

• Highlights how product ops can enhance go-to-market by coordinating teams and standardizing processes.

Product Ops, Project Management, and Program Management

In this section, the speaker discusses the distinctions between product ops, project management, and program management roles within a company.

Understanding Roles

• Product ops focus on enhancing decision-making speed and quality across three pillars.

• Product ops emphasize increasing the speed and quality of decision-making to drive efficiency.

• Program managers handle larger company initiatives with ongoing durations.

• Program managers oversee broader company initiatives that are continuous in nature.

• Project managers are responsible for time-boxed projects with specific end dates.

• Project managers manage individual projects within set timeframes.

Functions of Business Data and Insights in Product Ops

This part delves into the functions and responsibilities related to business data and insights within product operations.

Business Data Integration

• Product ops personnel connect business data with a product lens for informed decision-making.

• They ensure alignment of business data with a product perspective for effective utilization.

• Facilitating access to diverse inputs like finance data for product managers' informed actions.

• Enabling seamless access to various data sources while ensuring relevance to product management.

Role of Product Ops in Strategy Development

The discussion shifts towards how product ops contribute to strategy development through insightful metrics analysis.

Strategic Insights

• Product ops play a crucial role in providing strategic insights beyond traditional business metrics monitoring.

• They enable leaders to monitor product health through segmented metrics analysis for strategic decision-making.

• Empowering executives with tailored dashboards for strategic planning based on nuanced data interpretations.

• Offering customized insights at an executive level to support strategic planning and decision-making processes.

Importance of Data Expertise in Product Management

Emphasizing the significance of understanding data relationships and trends in effective product management practices.

Data Proficiency

• Product managers need to be proficient in interpreting data trends and relationships for informed decision-making.

Understanding the Role of Product Ops

In this section, the importance of understanding and interpreting trends as a product manager is discussed, along with the role of product ops in streamlining processes for faster access to data.

Importance of Data Accessibility

• Understanding and interpreting trends remains crucial for product managers.

• Product ops can streamline processes by putting data into dashboards and reports for easy access.

• Emphasis on avoiding obsolete data and maintaining a repeatable process while still looking for trends and insights.

Efficiency Through Operational People

This part delves into the perspective that operational roles indicate inefficiencies that could be improved through software and product solutions.

Efficiency Enhancement through Software

• Operational roles signal areas for potential efficiency improvements through software.

• Product ops function aligns well with a product management mindset focused on optimizing processes using tools and frameworks.

Optimizing Product Ops Team Size

The discussion shifts towards determining an appropriate ratio of product ops personnel to product managers within a team.

Determining Team Size Ratio

• Emphasizes the need for oversight but suggests a smaller subset of people managing products rather than one-to-one ratios.

Product Ops Team Efficiency

The discussion revolves around the efficiency of product operations teams and how they can be streamlined to oversee multiple programs or software systems effectively.

Streamlining Product Ops Teams

• Initially, more manpower may be required to kickstart the team efficiently.

• Aim for a lean team overseeing various programs like Ramp and Deal, which operate with minimal staff.

• Start with one person focusing on the most critical aspect to gain leverage before expanding the team gradually.

Expertise in Product Ops Pillars

Different expertise is needed for overseeing various pillars within product operations to ensure effective management and execution.

Expertise in Different Pillars

• Business data and insights pillar requires individuals who may not have a product background but can adapt and learn.

• Governance and product aspects need experts from a product background to handle roadmap definition, coaching, and process establishment effectively.

Role of Agile Coaches in Product Management

Discusses the challenges of using agile coaches without product management experience in optimizing product management processes effectively.

Agile Coaches' Role

• Agile coaches lacking product management experience may struggle as they tend to focus on agile processes rather than core product management functions.

• Emphasizes the need for individuals who understand cross-functional collaboration, strategic communication, and executive-level reporting beyond traditional agile practices.

Building Diverse Teams for Product Operations

Explores the necessity of having diverse skill sets within a product ops team to cater to different requirements efficiently.

Skill Diversity in Teams

• Roles within a product ops team may vary, requiring individuals with backgrounds such as user research or research ops for market research initiatives.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of identifying wins, setting expectations for team members, and hiring strategies for product ops roles.

Identifying Wins and Setting Expectations

• Emphasize celebrating wins to ensure team understanding.

• Consider hiring individuals with prior product ops experience like Blake Samic for successful models.

• Hiring decisions depend on company readiness to invest in product ops; consider different functions based on commitment levels.

• Hiring experienced leaders when fully committed can streamline operations and free up resources.

• Start with one function to demonstrate value before expanding the team.

New Section

This segment focuses on the significance of the initial hire in a product ops role and coaching considerations for success.

Importance of Initial Hire and Coaching

• The first hire is crucial as it sets the tone for the product ops role within the company.

• Leaders should assess their ability to coach new hires based on time availability.

• Consider hiring experienced individuals if coaching time is limited to ensure effective leadership development.

New Section

Here, the discussion extends to hiring practices in transformation companies and the necessity of experienced leaders in coaching roles.

Hiring Practices in Transformation Companies

• Experienced leaders are essential for coaching purposes within transformation companies.

• Time constraints dictate whether to hire experienced leaders or those who can hit the ground running without extensive training.

New Section

This part delves into hiring considerations for product ops roles, focusing on key skills required even without a specific title background.

Key Skills for Product Ops Roles

• Look beyond titles when hiring; focus on relevant skills such as data interpretation and communication abilities.

Background and Role Requirements

In this section, the speaker discusses the background needed for a business and data insights role, emphasizing the importance of guiding individuals in asking the right questions rather than expecting them to generate all queries independently.

Business and Data Insights Role Requirements

• The individual in this role does not necessarily have to be a product manager but should assist in directing others towards relevant questions that need answers.

• Emphasis is placed on the significance of surfacing insights by team members while being guided by someone experienced who can ask pertinent questions.

• For process and practices, a person with high emotional intelligence (EQ) is essential. They should understand team needs and possess an intuitive sense of how various methods can be introduced without imposing mandates.

Process Implementation and Continuous Evaluation

This part delves into the necessity for individuals in certain roles to possess a deep understanding of underlying tensions, opportunities, systems thinking, and continuous evaluation of processes and tools within an organization.

Key Attributes for Process Implementation

• Individuals should comprehend underlying tensions and opportunities within processes.

• A good grasp of systems thinking is crucial for effective implementation.

• Constant reevaluation of processes and tools is necessary to ensure their efficacy.

Customer and Market Research Expertise

The speaker highlights the importance of hiring individuals with user research backgrounds who are process-oriented. These professionals should excel in operationalizing tasks, creating systems for improvement, and possessing skills that enhance user research capabilities.

Qualities for Customer and Market Research Roles

• Candidates should have a strong user research background coupled with process-oriented skills.

• Proficiency in operationalizing tasks effectively is crucial for success in these roles.

• Interviewing candidates about their experience in automating or systematizing processes can provide valuable insights during recruitment.

Research Operations Importance

This segment emphasizes the value of research operations teams in facilitating user insights activities within organizations. It showcases a case study where research ops teams play a pivotal role in building participant databases, developing toolkits, overseeing research tools, training staff on user research best practices, ensuring compliance with legal requirements during studies.

Significance of Research Operations Teams

• Research ops teams streamline user insights activities by certifying staff for conducting research up to specific levels.

• They aid in democratizing research efforts by empowering staff with necessary skills while ensuring compliance with legal regulations.

Product Ops Reporting Structure

The discussion centers around product operations reporting structures within organizations. It suggests that product ops personnel typically report to heads of product or Chief Product Officers (CPOs) due to their integral role as right-hand persons supporting strategic decision-making through data analysis.

Reporting Hierarchy Recommendations

• Product ops personnel are advised to report directly to CPOs or heads of product departments.

Product Operations Implementation Insights

In this section, the speaker discusses the implementation of product operations within a company and the process of training individuals for this role.

Training Data Analysts for Product Ops

• Hiring data analysts to address business data and insights challenges.

• Training individuals by guiding them on specific data cuts needed and explaining the rationale behind it.

• Emphasizing practical learning over extensive theoretical training to see immediate results.

Case Study: Implementing Product Ops at Athenahealth

The speaker shares a case study from their experience at Athenahealth, detailing the introduction of product management roles and subsequent realization of the need for product operations.

Introduction at Athenahealth

• Joining Athenahealth when they were transitioning to formal product management roles.

• Recognizing the necessity for product operations due to challenges faced with an excessive number of product managers.

• Transitioning individuals out of product management into other roles based on their skills and interests.

Challenges Faced in Implementing Product Ops

The speaker highlights challenges encountered during the implementation of product operations, focusing on enhancing executive visibility and aligning team efforts with strategic goals.

Addressing Executive Needs

• Providing executives with insights beyond what traditional project management tools offer.

• Developing portfolio roadmaps aligned with company strategy to aid decision-making processes.

Detailed Overview of Product Operations at Athenahealth

In this section, the speaker discusses the establishment and evolution of product operations at Athenahealth, highlighting key roles and functions within the organization.

Establishing a Consistent Program

• Individual product teams utilized Amplitude for data but needed consistency.

• Creation of VP of product operations to ensure consistent processes.

Roles Within Product Operations

• Business data and insights team oversaw Amplitude rollout and supported Scrum teams.

• Portfolio views, governance, and user insights managed by different teams.

Collaboration with UX

• Research ops led by Jen Cardello focused on user insights and design systems.

• Head of UX reported to the chief product officer for collaboration.

Evolution and Impact of Product Operations at Athenahealth

This segment delves into the restructuring at Athenahealth, emphasizing the significance of product operations in organizational success.

Restructuring and Leadership Changes

• Tim Davenport oversees product ops post-restructuring.

• VP of product ops manages diverse teams beyond traditional product ops roles.

Talent Reallocation

• Transitioning individuals with strong data skills into business data and insights roles.

• Addressing challenges faced by those transitioning from other roles due to stakeholder interactions.

Data Team Collaboration

• Close collaboration between business data team under VP of product ops and CTO's data team for analytics support.

Favorite Book Recommendations and TV Show

In this segment, the speaker shares their favorite book recommendations and a TV show they recently enjoyed.

Favorite Book Recommendations

• The speaker recommends "The Lean Startup" by Eric Ries for strategy deployment and creation issues.

• : Mentions that problems often stem from strategy deployment and creation.

• Another recommended book is "Continuous Discovery Habits" by Theresa Torres, praised as fantastic in the product world.

• : Gives a shoutout to the book's excellence in the product realm.

Favorite Recent TV Show

• The speaker highly recommends "Deutschland 82, 86, 89," available on Hulu, which delves into East Germany.

• : Describes it as a great series about East Germany.