Trump Rally or Bessent Put? Elon Back at Tesla, Google's Gemini Problem, China's Thorium Discovery

Welcome to the All-In Podcast

Introduction and Guest Appearance

• The hosts welcome listeners back to the All-In podcast, noting that JCAL is absent this week due to attending a Knicks game in Detroit.

• A humorous commentary on Ben Stiller's appearance is made, comparing him to Tom Cruise and suggesting he should represent better for his community.

Market Discussion Begins

• Andrew Ross Sorkin joins as a guest, described as a journalist and author. The hosts express excitement about his presence.

• A plug for the upcoming All-In Summit is shared, highlighting its significance and inviting listeners to apply for attendance.

Analyzing Market Movements

• The discussion shifts towards recent market rallies, questioning whether they are influenced by external factors like government intervention or economic policies.

• The concept of "the put" is introduced, explaining how it functions as a safety net during market downturns where the government may buy poor-performing securities.

Evaluating Current Economic Conditions

• The speaker expresses skepticism about the existence of a current "put," arguing that despite significant economic policy changes, market performance has not drastically declined.

• It’s noted that active traders have been negatively impacted by volatility in the markets, leading them to seek reassurance from government actions.

Media Narratives and Political Implications

• A tweet from Nick Carter is referenced regarding media narratives surrounding Trump's presidency and market performance; it suggests that media often avoids giving Trump credit when markets rally.

• The conversation highlights how certain members of Trump's administration receive credit instead of Trump himself when positive developments occur in the markets.

Discussion on Trade Negotiations and Market Reactions

General Reluctance in Trade Negotiations

• There is a general reluctance to allow trade negotiations to fall apart, with indications that leaders like Trump are not willing to let the global economy come to a standstill.

• The conversation suggests that there is an intention from leadership to ensure market stability by getting deals done.

Art of Negotiation

• The concept of negotiation as an "opening salvo" is discussed, where bold initial offers can shift conversations and create leverage for future agreements.

• A reference is made to a Harvard professor who advised setting anchor points far away in negotiations for maximum leverage, exemplified by extreme tariff proposals.

Market Perceptions and Economic Reality

• The perception that the administration could risk tanking the global economy has diminished, leading to less leverage in negotiations.

• It’s suggested that if the goal is to pressure China effectively, understanding market dynamics and economic realities becomes crucial.

Cash Flow Dynamics Post-Tariff Implementation

• Discussion revolves around how tariffs might flip negative cash flows into positive ones for the U.S., with speculation on actual numbers being known by government officials.

• An analysis of trade balances indicates potential shifts from negative U.S. cash flow (-$2 billion/day) towards positive figures post-tariff implementation.

Long-term Investment Perspectives

• There's optimism about America's long-term investment appeal despite current challenges; however, patience within democratic processes may be tested.

• Emphasis on clear communication from leadership regarding cash flow changes could help public perception and support for ongoing strategies.

Conflicting Messages from Leaders

China's Trade Relationship: A Stress Test

Overview of the China Relationship

• The speaker expresses caution about their expertise in trade discussions, acknowledging a lack of direct involvement in the trade conversation.

• Reflecting on past decisions, they argue that allowing China into the WTO was a significant mistake, particularly due to China's developing nation status which has led to unfair advantages.

Developing Nation Status and Its Implications

• The speaker highlights that while it may have been justified in 1978, China's continued classification as a developing nation is questionable by 2025.

• This status allows China to impose tariffs and subsidize industries differently than developed nations like the US, creating an uneven playing field.

Strategic Industry Control

• China has strategically taken control of critical industries within the global supply chain, notably rare earth elements, which are essential for various technologies.

• They dominate over 90% of rare earth processing and production of rare earth magnets crucial for electric motors across multiple sectors.

Current Trade Negotiations and Dependencies

• The ongoing trade negotiations with China are underscored by unresolved issues regarding rare earth supplies; there is hope for bilateral engagement to deescalate tensions.

• The speaker emphasizes that recent events have exposed critical dependencies on China that should never have been allowed from a national security perspective.

Regulatory Parity Concerns

• There is a notable lack of discussion around regulatory parity in trade negotiations; American businesses face more hurdles compared to foreign companies operating in the US.

• An example from Monsanto illustrates how foreign companies can struggle against local regulations when trying to operate internationally despite easier access for foreign firms in America.

Case Study: Monsanto's Experience in India

• Monsanto introduced a successful cotton seed product in India but faced government intervention demanding price controls despite farmers benefiting significantly from higher profits.

Trade and Regulatory Challenges in Vietnam

The Complexity of Trade Regulations

• American businesses face significant challenges in entering Vietnamese markets, not solely due to cost but also because of stringent regulatory environments that can jeopardize intellectual property (IP).

• Achieving regulatory parity is crucial for enhancing trade relations and enabling U.S. companies to experience substantial revenue growth and market adoption.

Trust in the Brand of America

• A critical question arises regarding whether trust in American brands can be restored post-tariffs, as highlighted by Ken Griffin's comments on consumer behavior and brand reliability.

• Griffin emphasizes the unmatched strength of U.S. treasuries as a brand, warning that this reputation is at risk due to current economic policies.

Status Quo vs. Necessary Reforms

• The discussion contrasts perspectives on the status quo; while some see no urgent issues, others highlight significant problems affecting American competitiveness.

• Freeberg points out that trade with China is non-reciprocal, limiting U.S. companies' access to Chinese markets compared to China's access to U.S. markets.

Economic Consequences of Unfair Trade Practices

• The "race to the bottom" phenomenon forces American companies to either relocate manufacturing overseas or face competitive disadvantages against cheaper imports from countries like China.

• Current trade rules are described as unfair rather than free trade, leading to detrimental effects on middle America and creating dependencies on adversarial nations.

Investment Perspectives Amidst Global Challenges

• Despite criticisms of tariffs, there remains a strong belief among investors that the U.S. offers unparalleled opportunities compared to other global markets.

• Conversations with international investors reveal skepticism about alternatives like China or India due to their respective market challenges.

Geopolitical Implications of Economic Dependencies

• The intertwining of economic leverage with political influence raises concerns about America's ability to make independent decisions amidst global pressures.

• Recent actions by China regarding rare earth materials illustrate how economic constraints can dictate political alignments and decisions for other nations.

Future Considerations for American Sovereignty

• A hypothetical scenario involving a conflict between China and Taiwan underscores the risks posed by reliance on foreign supply chains for critical resources.

Discussion on Trump's Economic Strategy

Shifting the Conversation

• The speaker discusses the metaphor of a "velvet glove" in relation to economic strategies, suggesting that while the stock market is down 6%, it could be worse.

• Trump has significantly shifted discussions around trade practices and dependencies on rare earth materials, which were previously ignored until his administration brought them to light.

• The concept of "Liberation Day" is introduced as a strategic move by Trump to create leverage for negotiations, emphasizing the need for effective execution of these strategies.

Trust and Negotiations

• There’s an acknowledgment that while there may be agreement on Trump's goals, concerns arise regarding trust and tactics used in achieving those goals.

• Multinational CEOs express concerns about American brands losing their appeal in China, indicating a shift in consumer perception towards American companies.

Global Leadership Dynamics

• A Chinese CEO's perspective highlights acceptance of U.S. leadership but complicates matters when it comes to winning; this reflects broader geopolitical tensions.

• Historical context is provided with references to Hu Jintao's vision for China's future industries, illustrating long-term strategic planning within China.

Risk Assessment and Critical Inputs

• The discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding critical inputs necessary for global supremacy and how they relate to U.S. competitiveness against China.

• The conversation critiques criticisms of Trump's approach as lacking prior advocacy for change from critics who now call for more diplomatic methods.

Manufacturing Shifts

• Recent news indicates Apple plans to relocate iPhone manufacturing from China to India, showcasing shifts in global manufacturing strategies influenced by geopolitical considerations.

The Future of US-India Relations and Global Trade

Security First in Trade Relationships

• The speaker emphasizes the importance of prioritizing security over trade, suggesting that supply chains should not rely on adversarial countries.

• The current geopolitical climate is likened to a new cold war with China, necessitating a revision of trade relationships to avoid dependency on adversaries for critical components.

Alignment Between the US and India

• India is viewed as closely aligned with the US regarding security concerns, particularly regarding China as a mutual threat.

• Investments and trade relationships between the US and India are expected to remain stable due to this alignment, contrasting with investments in potentially adversarial nations.

Manufacturing Shifts to India

• The speaker notes that Apple’s manufacturing efforts in India are not starting from scratch; there are existing operations already underway.

• Tim Cook's commitment to establishing manufacturing in India within 18 months reflects careful planning rather than impulsive decision-making.

Economic Potential of India

• India's labor costs are significantly lower than those in China and America, making it an attractive destination for next-generation labor.

• The speaker compares India's potential growth trajectory to China's rapid GDP growth from 2006 to 2012, predicting similar economic expansion for India over the next few decades.

Investment Challenges in India

• Despite recognizing India's potential, the speaker shares personal investment challenges faced due to an immature market structure compared to American standards.

Geopolitical Dynamics and Strategic Alliances

Shifting Focus in Infrastructure Development

• The speaker reflects on a strategic pivot made four years ago towards infrastructure development, influenced by discussions with influential figures like the Amanis and Adanis, who emphasized its effectiveness.

India's Oil Purchases from Russia

• A geopolitical question arises regarding India's significant oil imports from Russia amidst global tensions, particularly concerning Ukraine.

• India maintains good relations with Russia due to security concerns stemming from its contested border with China, which has historically shaped its foreign policy.

The U.S.-China-Russia Dynamic

• The speaker argues that while China is the primary competitor to the U.S., Russia ranks third in terms of threat level. This dynamic suggests a need for strategic alliances.

• Drawing parallels to Cold War strategies, the speaker advocates for a "reverse Kissinger" approach—engaging with Russia rather than pushing it closer to China.

Investment Perspectives in India

• Discussion shifts to investment opportunities in India, highlighting skepticism about its potential as an economic utopia despite ongoing optimism over the past two decades.

Moralism vs. Realpolitik in Foreign Policy

• A debate emerges regarding moral judgments of nations like Russia and China; one participant cautions against viewing foreign policy through a strictly moral lens.

• The conversation critiques hyper-interventionism in U.S. foreign policy over the last 25 years, citing failures in promoting democracy through military interventions.

Understanding Great Power Behavior

• The speaker emphasizes that China's revisionist ambitions pose a significant threat to regional stability and U.S. interests, particularly regarding Taiwan and territorial waters.

• In contrast, Russia's actions are framed as seeking security rather than expansionism; this perspective challenges common narratives about Russian aggression.

The Complexities of American Foreign Policy

The Balance of Power and Security Architecture

• The speaker argues that a more effective approach for the U.S. would be to establish a security architecture in Europe that addresses Russian security concerns, rather than adopting a moralistic stance focused on spreading democracy.

The Impact of American Democracy Abroad

• While acknowledging some positive aspects of American-style democracy, the speaker highlights its failures in various regions, citing high failure rates in attempts at regime change in countries like Afghanistan, Syria, and Iraq.

• The speaker emphasizes that interventions often leave nations worse off than before, with examples such as the Taliban's resurgence in Afghanistan after significant U.S. investment.

Misconceptions About Democratic Proliferation

• There is skepticism about the belief that technology alone can foster democracy; historical complexities and cultural ties are crucial factors often overlooked.

• Despite being grateful for their own democratic system, the speaker critiques U.S. efforts to impose democracy through military means as ineffective and counterproductive.

Soft Power vs. Military Intervention

• The speaker advocates for modeling democracy by setting a positive example domestically rather than through military intervention abroad, suggesting this could enhance America's soft power globally.

• Reflecting on past successes in soft power during the 1980s, they note how military actions since then have damaged America's image internationally.

Current Geopolitical Tensions: Ukraine and Crimea

• A discussion on recent geopolitical events includes Trump's comments on Russian strikes in Kiev and highlights tensions surrounding peace negotiations involving Ukraine's recognition of Crimea's annexation by Russia.

• The dismissal of an American peace proposal by Ukrainian President Zelensky is noted as a critical moment affecting diplomatic relations and potential resolutions to ongoing conflicts.

Challenges Facing Ukraine’s Leadership

• The speaker points out that public sentiment in Crimea favors remaining part of Russia, complicating Ukraine's efforts to reclaim it militarily or politically.

• Criticism is directed at Zelensky for his unrealistic expectations regarding battlefield outcomes and his perceived disrespect towards U.S. leadership during official visits.

Analysis of Ukrainian Leadership and Russian Intentions

Critique of Zelensky's Leadership

• The speaker argues that President Zelensky is unrealistic regarding Ukraine's military prospects, particularly in retaking Crimea, and suggests he should seek new allies if he refuses to acknowledge the current geopolitical realities.

• The opinion is expressed that Zelensky has made his own choices and must face the consequences, as he disregards American influence and support.

Discussion on Russian Expansionism

• The speaker dismisses concerns about Russia targeting Poland next, asserting there is no evidence supporting such intentions from Putin, who is characterized as a rational decision-maker.

• A lack of insurgency in Crimea over the past decade is highlighted to question the region's desire to align with Ukraine rather than Russia.

Historical Context and Negotiation Stance

• The Russians' terms for peace are reiterated, referencing a previous deal from June last year that required Ukraine to sever ties with NATO and concede Crimea.

• It’s suggested that had Ukraine accepted an earlier deal at the war's onset, they might have secured better terms; however, this was rejected by the Biden administration.

Current Situation and Future Prospects

• The speaker believes that if Ukrainians are unwilling to accept existing proposals for peace, they should pursue support elsewhere without continued U.S. backing.

Market Insights: Alphabet's Resilience

Overview of Alphabet's Financial Performance

• Despite predictions of decline due to AI competition in search markets, Alphabet reported strong earnings with revenue up 12% year-over-year at $90.2 billion.

• Significant growth in cloud services and a robust buyback program contribute positively to investor sentiment around Alphabet.

Breakdown of Revenue Streams

• Detailed revenue analysis shows $77 billion from services including ads on search platforms; YouTube generated $9 billion while cloud revenue grew by 30% year-over-year.

Market Positioning and Future Potential

• Concerns about losing market share to competitors like ChatGPT are addressed; even with potential losses, other business segments could sustain overall performance.

Valuation Considerations

Strategic Insights on Google and Nvidia

Google's Subscription Strategy and Competitive Positioning

• Google has 270 million total paid subscriptions across YouTube and Google One, prompting a call for the integration of Gemini as a primary interface to compete with OpenAI's rapid growth.

• The speaker emphasizes that Google's leadership should decisively push for Gemini's implementation, leveraging their political capital to overcome internal hesitations.

• A discussion about Nvidia reveals that 47% of its revenue is reported from regions like China and Singapore due to invoicing practices, not actual shipping locations.

Implications of Revenue Reporting Practices

• Nvidia clarified that the reported revenue does not reflect where products are shipped but rather where invoices are issued, which can mislead stakeholders about market dynamics.

• Major US companies utilize Singapore for invoicing, indicating a complex supply chain that may obscure true market engagement in certain regions.

Risks Associated with Cloud Services

• Concerns arise regarding whether cloud services adequately vet customers to prevent unauthorized access by entities in countries like China, posing potential risks to revenue streams.

• The need for Know Your Customer (KYC) compliance is highlighted as essential for cloud providers like GCP, Azure, and AWS to mitigate risks associated with sensitive technology access.

Future Considerations for Google’s Infrastructure Investments

• Questions are raised about how tariffs might impact Google's infrastructure spending plans moving forward; maintaining a $75 billion investment could be crucial despite potential economic hiccups.

• The strategic importance of data center buildouts is emphasized as vital for hyperscalers' survival amidst evolving market conditions.

Challenges Facing Gemini Against ChatGPT

• Despite improvements in performance metrics, Gemini struggles with user adoption compared to ChatGPT; this discrepancy poses significant challenges for Google’s competitive stance.

• Implementing Gemini as the default interface in search could risk substantial search revenue but is necessary to counteract user habits shifting towards ChatGPT.

Integration of Gemini into Google's Ad Business

The Challenge of Integration

• Chimoth, the CEO of Google, faces a dilemma regarding how to integrate Gemini without disrupting the $200 billion search ad business. The question is whether he prioritizes immediate integration or considers long-term implications.

• Understanding the value of current versus future dollars is crucial in making this decision. The complexity lies in determining what the integration should look like for existing subscription services like YouTube and Google One.

Current Implementation Issues

• There are concerns about how Gemini is currently being integrated into products like Gmail and Google Workspace, with frequent pop-ups creating a cluttered user experience due to poor design choices made by junior staff.

• Despite having ample resources, Google struggles with taste and design quality in its product implementations. This raises questions about who drives creativity within the company.

Innovator's Dilemma

• The challenge lies in balancing traditional search results (blue links) with AI-driven experiences. There's concern that AI summaries could undermine the blue link economy, presenting a significant challenge for leadership.

• Sundar Pichai must navigate these conflicting priorities while ensuring that innovation does not compromise existing revenue streams.

Design and User Experience Considerations

• Effective design requires strong leadership to avoid groupthink that stifles creativity. Identifying key individuals who can influence product decisions is essential for improving user experience.

• Suggestions include maintaining the simplicity of Google's homepage while exploring ways to enhance user engagement without cannibalizing existing features like blue links.

Strategic Insights on Revenue Generation

• A focus on optimizing entry points into Google services could lead to increased monetization opportunities. Key areas identified include Gmail and YouTube as potential front doors for integrating Gemini effectively.

• Prioritizing enhancements in existing platforms before altering google.com allows for gradual adaptation and understanding of revenue impacts over time.

Historical Context and Decision-Making Challenges

• Maintaining Google's iconic homepage may be politically sensitive; however, there are discussions around replacing outdated features with AI functionalities without alienating users or disrupting revenue generation strategies.

Tesla's Earnings and Elon Musk's Focus

Overview of Tesla's Recent Performance

• Tesla recently released its earnings report, resulting in an 8% increase in stock value, with a notable 23% rise over the past five days.

• The surge is attributed to Elon Musk's statement about shifting focus back to Tesla from Dogecoin (Doge), raising questions about his commitment and strategy.

Elon Musk's Management Style

• Musk has previously dedicated significant time to understanding new ventures, as seen during his transition at Twitter, where he immersed himself in the business operations.

• He appears to adopt a maintenance mode after establishing trust and structure within teams, allowing him to manage multiple companies effectively.

Involvement with Dogecoin

• Despite claims of reducing his involvement with Doge, Musk intends to remain engaged due to concerns over potential corruption returning without oversight.

• His limited availability (130 days per year as SGE) necessitates a more strategic allocation of his time across various projects.

Addressing Corruption and Budget Concerns

• Steve Bannon emphasizes the need for transparency regarding government spending cuts related to corruption exposed by Musk’s efforts.

• There is a call for Congress to act on eliminating corrupt appropriations from budgets based on findings from Musk’s investigations into governmental financial practices.

Financial Implications and Legislative Action

• The discussion highlights the importance of congressional action in realizing savings identified through Musk’s initiatives; failure could lead to reverting back to previous spending habits.

• The conversation reflects on how entrenched political interests may resist changes that would benefit taxpayers despite evidence of wasteful spending.

Projected Savings from Government Reforms

• Estimates suggest potential annual savings of $160 billion due to reforms initiated by Musk; this could translate into $1.6 trillion over ten years if sustained.

• Ultimately, success hinges on whether legislators will support these reforms and pressure their constituents accordingly.

Challenges Ahead for Legislative Change

• There's skepticism regarding Congress's willingness or ability to enact necessary budgetary reforms despite public demand for accountability.

Deficit and Policy Challenges

The Importance of Addressing the Deficit

• The speaker emphasizes that resolving the deficit is crucial for any policy discussions, warning that failure to do so will lead to increased Treasury rates and a lack of funding.

• It is noted that Congress must take initiative in addressing these issues, as individual actions without statutory authority are limited.

Democracy and Collective Action Problems

• The discussion highlights how elected officials prioritize benefits for their constituents, leading to an escalating cycle of demands that complicates fiscal responsibility.

• There is a critique of logrolling among appropriators, where mutual exchanges of favors contribute to the growing deficit.

Historical Context and Solutions

• A reference is made to past calls for a line item veto by President Bush 41, suggesting that more presidential authority could mitigate collective action problems in Congress.

• The speaker reflects on their previous opposition to such powers but acknowledges its potential necessity given current fiscal challenges.

Anticipating a Crisis

• It is suggested that Congress may only change its ways when faced with a debt crisis, which would highlight the unsustainable nature of current fiscal policies.

Spending Cuts and Budget Projections

Current Spending Trends

• Discussion shifts towards projections from Poly Market regarding spending cuts expected in 2025, indicating skepticism about achieving significant reductions.

Contractual Savings Analysis

• Clarification on savings from contracts reveals complexities due to multi-year agreements, making it difficult to ascertain actual savings from proposed cuts.

Departmental Focus on Waste Reduction

• Emphasis on cutting wasteful contracts within departments like HHS indicates efforts toward reducing unnecessary expenditures while maintaining essential services.

Tesla's Full Self-Driving (FSD)

User Experience with FSD Technology

• A participant shares positive experiences with Tesla's Full Self-Driving feature, noting improvements in quality and reliability over recent updates.

Tesla's Robo Taxi Future and Thorium Energy Innovations

Tesla's Current Autonomous Driving Experience

• The speaker discusses the current state of Tesla's Full Self-Driving (FSD) technology, likening their car to a "robo taxi" but highlighting the requirement to keep hands on the wheel and eyes forward.

• A humorous anecdote is shared about the speaker's wife getting suspended from FSD for looking away while driving, illustrating Tesla’s strict safety measures that penalize drivers for not paying attention.

• Concerns are raised regarding FSD’s performance in bright sunlight, where videos show cars disconnecting from FSD due to camera issues, indicating potential risks associated with relying solely on camera-based systems.

• Discussion touches on the limitations of Tesla’s approach without Lidar technology, suggesting that disengagement rates may be high compared to competitors like Waymo that utilize Lidar.

Insights into AI Data Centers and Autonomous Systems

• The conversation shifts towards next-generation AI data centers, exploring whether decentralized inference points (POPs) are necessary or if onboard models can suffice for fully autonomous vehicles.

• The Whimo model is highlighted as an example of fully autonomous units capable of making decisions independently without needing constant real-time human intervention.

Science Corner: Thorium Reactors

Discovery of Thorium Reserves

• Introduction to a significant discovery of thorium reserves in China and advancements in molten salt reactor technology.

• Explanation of thorium as a nuclear fuel source that requires neutron absorption to release energy by transmuting into uranium 233, emphasizing its potential benefits over traditional fuels.

Advantages of Molten Salt Reactors

• A massive thorium deposit found in Inner Mongolia could power China for 60,000 years; this reserve was discovered at the Bayion Obo mining complex.

• Molten salt reactors are presented as safer alternatives since they can passively shut down and operate at low pressure, reducing meltdown risks compared to conventional reactors.

U.S. Thorium Reserves and China's Developments

• The U.S. has substantial thorium reserves (64,000 tons), with Canada holding even more (172,000 tons), enough to sustain energy needs for centuries if utilized effectively.

Energy Production and Strategic Implications

China's Energy Production Growth

• China aims to increase its electricity production from 3 terawatts to 8 terawatts over the next 15 years through a mix of solar, hydroelectric, and advanced nuclear reactors (Gen 3 and Gen 4).

• The cost-effectiveness of building new energy systems is a significant factor in China's economic advantage this century, impacting both production costs and operational efficiency.

U.S. Technological Lag

• The U.S. is falling behind in energy technology that it originally pioneered, particularly in nuclear advancements developed at Oak Ridge National Lab.

• A Chinese leader acknowledged the U.S.'s foundational research but noted that regulatory barriers have hindered American progress while allowing China to advance.

Advantages of Thorium as Fuel

• Thorium has an infinite reserve and does not require a complex refining process like uranium; it can be used entirely as fuel.

• The simplicity of thorium's utilization presents a low-cost opportunity for energy production if supply chains are established effectively.

Future of Nuclear Energy Technology

• Once experimental reactors utilizing thorium are operational, there could be significant advancements in nuclear technology that have been overlooked by the U.S.

• Regulatory constraints are identified as major obstacles preventing the U.S. from capitalizing on its own innovations in nuclear technology.

Fusion Energy Potential

• Fusion differs from fission; it involves combining light elements like hydrogen to release energy, potentially providing unlimited power using ocean water.

• A newly discovered large-scale fusion research facility in China surpasses existing facilities in the U.S., indicating China's lead in next-generation energy technologies.

Economic Implications of Energy Systems

• If China can produce cheaper energy systems at scale compared to the U.S., they will gain substantial advantages across manufacturing and transportation sectors.

• Addressing regulatory constraints is deemed critical for the United States to maintain competitiveness against China's growing energy capabilities.

Conclusion on Strategic Imperatives

Outro and Reflections on the Podcast

Closing Remarks

• The outro is delivered by Pauly Hatia, who expresses gratitude to the audience for listening to the All-In podcast.

• Pauly acknowledges his co-hosts: David Saxs (referred to as "cryptozar"), David Freeberg ("prince of panic attacks and sultan of science"), and guest Andrew Ross Sorcin.

• He emphasizes that the episode was enjoyable, stating, "that was a lot of fun."