J. Krishnamurti - San Diego 1974 - Conversation 10 - The art of listening

Introduction

This section introduces J. Krishnamurti and Dr. Allan W. Anderson, who will be engaging in a dialogue about seeing, listening, and learning.

Introducing J. Krishnamurti and Dr. Allan W. Anderson

• J. Krishnamurti was born in South India and educated in England.

• He has been speaking for the past 40 years in various parts of the world.

• His life's work is focused on setting man absolutely unconditionally free.

• Dr. Allan W. Anderson is a professor of religious studies at San Diego State University.

• He teaches Indian and Chinese scriptures and the oracular tradition.

Setting the Stage

In this section, Dr. Anderson explains that he and Krishnamurti had previously discussed beauty and agreed to discuss seeing, listening, and learning next time they met.

Discussing Seeing, Listening, and Learning

• Last time they spoke together they were discussing beauty.

• They promised to take up the topic of seeing, listening, and learning next time they could come together.

What is Seeing?

In this section, Krishnamurti asks what it means to see something without any screens or biases affecting perception.

The Relationship Between Seeing, Hearing, and Learning

• Seeing, hearing, and learning are related to each other.

• It becomes important to find out what it means to see something without any screens or biases affecting perception.

The Screen of Perception

• There are many screens between us and the object of perception such as prejudice or our own experiences.

• These screens prevent us from truly seeing things as they are.

The Importance of Direct Perception

• It becomes important to find out if it is possible for the mind not to have these images, conclusions, beliefs, memories, prejudices, fears and without having those screens just to look.

• When there is a seeing of the thing which I am talking about - when there is a seeing, you can't help but acting.

Hearing Without Interference

In this section, Dr. Anderson recalls something Krishnamurti said about hearing being doing nothing to stop or interfere with seeing.

The Relationship Between Hearing and Seeing

• Hearing is doing nothing to stop or interfere with seeing.

• In conversation the notion of hearing is regarded as intimately associated with command.

• It's as though they have to screw themselves up into some sort of agonised twist here, not only to please the one who is insisting that they are not hearing but to get up some hearing on their own.

The Importance of Listening

• Does a human being listen at all?

• It becomes important to find out what it means to hear directly without any biases affecting perception.

Understanding Beauty and Suffering

In this section, the speakers discuss how understanding suffering is necessary to understand beauty. They explore the idea of forming conclusions and ideas based on statements.

Listening without Forming Ideas

• The mind draws a conclusion when it hears a statement about beauty and suffering.

• Instead of forming an idea or conclusion, one can listen completely to the statement without agreeing or disagreeing.

• By listening in this way, one can see the truth or falseness of the statement without comparing it to other ideas.

Total Attention and Freedom from Statements

• When listening completely, attention has no border and concepts do not arise.

• The miracle that takes place is complete freedom from all statements, allowing for extraordinary freedom to act.

• This kind of listening requires total attention, which is what is important.

Engaging in Discussion with Total Attention

In this section, the speakers discuss how total attention allows for engagement in discussion without dividing one's mind. They explore how commercialized minds seek rewards before taking action.

Engaging Discussion with Total Attention

• One can engage in discussion with total attention without dividing their mind between paying attention to production aspects and engaging in discussion.

• The more intensely one engages in discussion, the more efficiently all mechanisms are accomplished.

Commercialized Minds Seek Rewards Before Action

• Minds are often commercialized and require rewards before taking action.

The Nature of Exchange

In this section, Krishnamurti discusses the nature of exchange and how it differs from gift-giving. He also talks about the religious practice of torturing oneself in order to receive a reward from God.

Exchange vs Gift-Giving

• Krishnamurti explains that true exchange is not the same as gift-giving because it involves giving something in return.

• He notes that some religious people torture themselves in order to receive a reward from God, which is not true exchange.

Attention and Reward

In this section, Krishnamurti discusses attention and how it relates to reward. He argues that attention cannot be maintained through effort or for the sake of receiving a reward.

Attention and Reward

• Krishnamurti explains that when action is not based on an idea or belief, seeing becomes doing.

• He argues that attention cannot be maintained through effort because attention has no cause or effect.

• Attention does not give you a reward or punishment because it has no frontier.

Virtue as its Own Reward

In this section, Krishnamurti discusses the concept of virtue being its own reward and how it can become a form of punishment.

Virtue as its Own Reward

• Krishnamurti notes that virtue being its own reward can become a form of punishment when used to remind someone they are asking too much for a good deed.

Learning Beyond Accumulation

In this section, Krishnamurti discusses the nature of learning and whether it is only a process of accumulation.

Learning Beyond Accumulation

• Krishnamurti argues that learning is not just about accumulating knowledge, but also about understanding.

• He questions whether there is any other form of learning beyond accumulation and acting.

• Krishnamurti notes that all forms of learning that involve memory are mechanical and routine.

The Mechanical Mind

In this section, Krishnamurti discusses the concept of a mechanical mind and questions whether there is such a thing as a non-mechanical brain.

Is there a non-mechanical brain?

• Our mind becomes mechanical due to our upbringing and education.

• Krishnamurti questions whether there is such a thing as a non-mechanical brain that has no future or past.

• He argues that we do not learn anything from experience, citing the example of 5000 wars throughout history and the lack of learning from them.

• Krishnamurti believes that our repetitive reactions, demands, and pursuits make our minds more mechanical over time.

Learning from Experience

In this section, Krishnamurti continues to question the idea of learning from experience and explores the meaning behind St. Paul's statement about rejoicing in tribulations.

Rejoicing in Tribulations

• A participant brings up St. Paul's statement about rejoicing in tribulations and how it relates to learning from experience.

• Krishnamurti explains how tribulation works patience and energy according to St. Paul's words.

• He argues that thought is never free because it is always old, with no new thoughts being possible.

• Krishnamurti believes that freedom becomes an idea without meaning due to our mechanical minds.

Testing Knowledge

In this section, Krishnamurti discusses the limits of knowledge and what true learning means.

The Limits of Knowledge

• A participant objects to the idea that we do not learn from experience, citing the succession of wars throughout history.

• Krishnamurti explains that learning is not mechanical and questions what true learning means.

• He argues that freedom requires understanding the limits of knowledge and the beginning of something new.

Conclusion

In this section, Krishnamurti concludes by asking what there is to learn about.

Learning About What?

• Krishnamurti asks what there is to learn about if true learning is not mechanical.

Learning about God

In this section, Krishnamurti and a questioner discuss whether the mind can learn about God.

Can the mind learn about God?

• When one learns about God or going to the moon, he can't be doing what you are pointing to if this is something added on to the list.

• Krishnamurti suggests that one should learn about the image which they have built of Christ, Buddha, or whatever it is. The image they have built is themselves making him in their own image.

• The 'me' has created the image of God and learning about God has no meaning because there is no other learning except mechanical learning.

Inner vs Outer Learning

In this section, Krishnamurti discusses whether there is any other process of learning besides mechanical learning.

Is there any other kind of learning?

• There is only learning the mechanical process of life. There is no other learning.

• If I have understood the outer, I have understood the inner because the inner has created the outer.

• The consummation of knowledge means that the mind knows the activity of the known.

Functioning in Knowledge

In this section, Krishnamurti and a questioner discuss what happens when one's mind functions in knowledge.

What is the state of mind that is free from functioning in knowledge?

• The brain functions mechanically and wants security; otherwise, it can't function.

• You are asking the brain, which has become mechanical, trained for centuries, to see the other field, which is not mechanical.

Understanding Meditation

In this section, Krishnamurti and a colleague discuss the nature of meditation and how it relates to listening and seeing.

Real Meditation

• Krishnamurti describes real meditation as listening with knowledge and seeing with knowledge.

• Seeing through a glass darkly is discussed as an example of seeing with knowledge.

• Attention is described as listening out of silence.

Destroyed Meaning

• The meaning of meditation has been destroyed by "shoddy little men" who have commercialized it.

• The absurdity of paying money to learn transcendental meditation is discussed.

Action Based on Idea is Inaction

This section explores the limitations of action based on ideas and how it prevents us from experiencing true freedom.

Mechanical Seeing and Listening

• We never see anything new because our seeing has become mechanical.

• Freedom cannot be achieved through limiting ourselves to knowledge-based action.

True Freedom

• True freedom comes from understanding the whole movement of knowledge.

• Observing out of silence allows us to act in harmony with our knowledge.

Living Death

This section discusses the monotony of modern life and how we are educating children for a life that lacks meaning.

Repetition

• The monotony of modern life is described as routine and repetition.

• We are educating children for a life that lacks meaning.

Breaking the Chain

• It is important to wipe our eyes clear of the past and look at what we are doing with attention.

• Instead of adding more things to our list, we should ask ourselves what we can do about the problems in our lives.

Classical Understanding of Four Causes

In this section, the speaker discusses the classical understanding of the four causes and how they are non-temporarily related. The speaker uses an example of a potter putting his hand to clay to explain this concept.

Non-Temporal Relationship of Four Causes

• The classical understanding of the four causes is that they are non-temporarily related.

• One person visiting the class was struck by this concept and expressed difficulty with it.

• The speaker asked him to touch something on the desk and tell him if it reacts after being touched. This practical test helped clarify the concept for students.

Importance of Seeing Things Clearly

In this section, the speaker emphasizes the importance of seeing things clearly and not getting caught up in words or descriptions.

Caught Up in Words

• Students get caught up in words instead of focusing on things themselves.

• People become slaves to words and descriptions, which hinders their ability to see things clearly.

• Students become more concerned with words than with things themselves.

Education's Emphasis on Abstractions

In this section, the speaker discusses how education emphasizes abstractions rather than reality, leading people to focus on theories rather than living life.

Abstraction from Reality

• Education emphasizes abstractions from reality, such as words and descriptions.

• Philosophies are based on theorizing endlessly about how one should live without actually living that way.

• Some philosophers don't even live according to their own theories.

Importance of Appropriate Action

In this section, the speaker emphasizes the importance of appropriate action and how it can be achieved without verbal communication.

Appropriate Action

• The story of a monkey shaking hands with the speaker illustrates how appropriate action can be achieved without verbal communication.

• The speaker must perform therapy on his language as a teacher to avoid adding to the endless chain of words and abstractions.

I understand the task. Let's begin.

What is Love, Death, Meditation and Living?

In this section, Krishnamurti and Allan Anderson discuss various topics such as love, death, meditation and living.

Discussion on Various Topics

• Krishnamurti suggests that they should discuss several things in their next conversations such as love, death, meditation and the whole movement of living.

• Krishnamurti explains that love is not just a feeling or emotion but it is something beyond that which cannot be described in words.

• Krishnamurti talks about how we are afraid of death because we don't know what happens after we die. He suggests that instead of being afraid of death, we should try to understand it.

• Krishnamurti discusses meditation and how it is not just sitting quietly for a few minutes but it is a way of life. He explains that meditation is the understanding of oneself.

• Krishnamurti talks about the whole movement of living and how we need to understand ourselves in order to live properly. He suggests that we need to be aware of our thoughts and actions in every moment.

Overall, this section covers various topics such as love, death, meditation and living. Krishnamurti provides his insights on these topics and encourages us to understand them better.