J. Krishnamurti - Brockwood Park 1981 - Public Talk 3 - Knowledge, sorrow, death, and to be free...

Discussion on Life's Complexities

Exploring Daily Life Challenges

• Krishnamurti emphasizes the necessity of dialogue to address various problems in daily life, including fear, pleasure, pain, and the significance of relationships.

• He highlights the disintegration of society marked by terror, misery, confusion, poverty, and ongoing threats of war globally.

The Role of Knowledge

• Discussion includes the relevance of knowledge in our lives and relationships; questioning if it contributes to conflict or understanding.

• Krishnamurti compares human memory and experience to a computer's functioning but notes that computers lack emotional perception.

Love and Desire

• The conversation shifts to whether knowledge (linked with desire) has any place in love or if pursuit of pleasure equates to love.

• He suggests that both pleasure and fear are rooted in knowledge, raising questions about their relationship with sorrow.

Understanding Existence

Collective Responsibility

• Krishnamurti stresses that discussions are not casual; they pertain deeply to our societal responsibilities amidst global issues.

• He encourages collective examination of personal problems as part of a larger societal context rather than following any propaganda or sectarian views.

The Cycle of Thought

• A critical analysis is presented regarding whether our cycle from experience to action leads anywhere meaningful or merely repeats past mistakes.

• He questions if thought can genuinely resolve these recurring issues we face as individuals and collectively.

The Nature of Intelligence

Compassionate Intelligence

• The discussion transitions into love, compassion, and intelligence—highlighting that true intelligence is objective and impersonal.

• Engaging a large audience complicates genuine dialogue; intimate settings may foster better understanding compared to large gatherings.

Societal Reflection

• Krishnamurti reflects on societal corruption as a shared responsibility among individuals rather than an external issue detached from personal actions.

Knowledge vs. Love

Incomplete Understanding

• He argues that knowledge is inherently incomplete; thus actions based on it will also be flawed leading to various problems in existence.

Common Human Experience

• Emphasizing shared consciousness among humanity, he states all people endure similar psychological struggles like anxiety and guilt regardless of their circumstances.

Understanding the Nature of Sorrow and Love

The Illusion of Individuality

• The speaker suggests that during difficult times, individuals may realize that their perceived individuality is an illusion; despite cultural differences, human consciousness is fundamentally similar.

Knowledge, Sorrow, and Love

• A critical inquiry into whether knowledge leads to sorrow and how sorrow relates to love is introduced. The speaker questions if true love can exist in the presence of suffering.

Practical Implications for Humanity

• Emphasizing the importance of discussing these issues practically, the speaker raises concerns about humanity's future as technology advances, particularly with machines taking over cognitive functions.

Exploring Relationships and Memory

• The discussion shifts to personal relationships, highlighting how psychological responses such as possessiveness and irritations are recorded in our minds like memories on a gramophone.

Security vs. Love

• The speaker questions whether the security derived from knowledge denies the existence of love. This prompts a deeper exploration into what constitutes love amidst pain and loss.

Sorrow's Relationship with Love

• An examination of whether sorrow can coexist with love follows. The speaker emphasizes that understanding suffering is crucial when discussing compassion and intelligence in relation to love.

Historical Context of Human Suffering

• Reflecting on humanity's long history with war and sorrow, the speaker notes that traditional religions have often failed to resolve these issues by shifting responsibility onto external symbols or figures.

Escaping from Pain

• Various methods people use to escape their pain—such as drugs or entertainment—are discussed. The speaker argues against these escapes, advocating for facing sorrow directly instead.

Confronting Personal Loss

• A poignant reflection on personal grief highlights how memories can sustain pain rather than alleviate it. This leads to a call for confronting painful memories without avoidance.

Ending the Cycle of Escape

• Finally, the speaker challenges listeners to stop all forms of escape from pain—not through willpower but by fully experiencing emotional truths without distraction or denial.

Understanding Sorrow and Its Implications

The Nature of Sorrow

• The speaker reflects on the difficulty of abandoning memories associated with sorrow, suggesting that clinging to these memories can be a form of disloyalty and an avoidance of deeper understanding.

• Acknowledges that everyone experiences personal sorrow as well as collective human suffering, particularly highlighting extreme poverty in regions like the East.

• Shares a poignant observation of a poor man cooking his meager meal, emphasizing the permanence of his situation and the inherent sorrow tied to such existence.

Knowledge and Ignorance

• Critiques how educated individuals often view knowledge as a means for advancement while ignoring broader human suffering; this limited perspective contributes to ongoing conflicts throughout history.

• Points out that reliance on politicians to resolve societal issues leads to narrow-minded solutions based on tribalism rather than genuine understanding.

Confronting Sorrow

• Discusses the ignorance not found in books but within oneself, which perpetuates sorrow.

• Questions whether joining organizations or donating money truly addresses personal or collective sorrow, suggesting these actions may serve as escapes rather than solutions.

Engaging with Pain

• Proposes that true engagement with sorrow requires facing it without thought or escape mechanisms; observing pain without labeling it allows for deeper understanding.

• Emphasizes living with pain fully, without prejudice or desire for resolution, which can lead to transformation.

The Observer and the Observed

• Explores the relationship between thought and pain, asserting that thought often trivializes deep emotional experiences by creating abstractions.

• Argues that total attention given to one's pain is necessary for transformation; recognizing that one’s experience of sorrow is part of their identity is crucial.

Ending Knowledge and Embracing Love

• Suggests a revolutionary realization: the observer (self) is not separate from observed (pain), challenging traditional views about self-experience dynamics.

• Questions if knowledge equates to love, arguing that societal values centered around ambition undermine genuine love. True love exists beyond memory and images.

Compassion Emerges from Love

• Concludes by stating that authentic love transcends sentimentality; when nurtured properly, it gives rise to compassion—an objective intelligence capable of profound connection.

Understanding Death and Attachment

The Nature of Death

• Discusses the inevitability of death as a part of life, emphasizing that it should not be avoided in conversation.

• Highlights societal reluctance to discuss death, suggesting that acknowledging it is essential for understanding life.

• Points out the fear surrounding death leads people to distance themselves from the topic, despite its omnipresence.

• Notes humanity's historical engagement with death and various cultural beliefs about what follows after it.

Cultural Perspectives on Rebirth

• Explores Eastern beliefs in reincarnation, where one's current actions influence future lives positively or negatively.

• Describes how these beliefs are deeply ingrained in cultures like India, where moral living is tied to better rebirth outcomes.

• Contrasts this with Western beliefs in resurrection and the search for comfort regarding mortality.

The Dilemma of Living Morally

• Raises questions about the purpose of living a moral life if death renders all achievements meaningless.

• Suggests that discussions around death should focus on both pre-death experiences and post-death beliefs.

Living vs. Dying

• Questions whether we prioritize our existence before or after death, urging reflection on what constitutes meaningful living.

• Emphasizes the importance of understanding life itself rather than solely focusing on its end.

The Concept of Ending and New Beginnings

• Proposes that endings can lead to new beginnings; true transformation may require letting go of attachments now rather than later.

• Challenges listeners to consider if it's possible to experience a form of 'reincarnation' within their current lives by ending attachments today.

Attachment and Its Corruption

• Discusses how attachment can lead to corruption in various forms—be it personal relationships or ideologies.

• Encourages introspection about why individuals cling to attachments despite recognizing their potential harm.

Fear of Solitude

• Examines the fear associated with ending attachments, noting that many find security within them even when they recognize their drawbacks.

• Delves into specific types of attachments (to people, ideals, etc.) and how they complicate one's relationship with freedom.

Understanding Attachment and Consciousness

The Nature of Attachment

• The speaker expresses fear of being alone, leading to reliance on others (gurus) for security. This attachment is recognized as inherently insecure due to the unpredictability of relationships.

• Insight into attachment is highlighted as a liberating factor, emphasizing that understanding rather than arguments or explanations can lead to freedom from such attachments.

Freedom from Psychological Factors

• True freedom arises not from cynicism but from love, which emerges when one is free from psychological attachments.

• The discussion shifts to the possibility of ending psychological factors like fear and attachment while still living, suggesting that this process does not require physical death.

Insights into Consciousness

• Death is defined as the cessation of psychological clinging rather than the end of physical life; it involves letting go of all that one holds psychologically.

• The speaker questions whether one must address each psychological factor individually or if a holistic insight can liberate them from all at once.

Interconnectedness of Psychological Factors

• A total insight into one's consciousness leads to liberation; recognizing that various fears and attachments are interrelated is crucial for true understanding.

• The 'me' concept is tied to accumulated knowledge and experiences, which shape routine life. Gaining total insight into this structure represents real freedom.

Consequences of Unresolved Attachments

• The speaker reflects on what happens after death if deep-seated absurdities remain unresolved despite partial insights gained during life.

• There’s an acknowledgment of holding onto certain cherished aspects (like money), raising questions about their significance post-death.

Exploring the Content of Consciousness

• To understand consciousness deeply, one must examine its content—shaped by thought—which includes beliefs, experiences, fears, and pleasures.

• Fear is identified as a product of time-thought; both concepts are intertwined in shaping consciousness.

Commonality in Human Experience

• The content forms individual consciousness but also connects with collective human experience; shared struggles exist across cultures.

• Recognizing that personal consciousness reflects broader human issues emphasizes our interconnectedness in suffering and joy.

Contribution to Collective Consciousness

• By letting go of personal burdens through insight, individuals contribute positively to collective human consciousness.

• Achieving profound insights can introduce new dimensions into shared consciousness, fostering real freedom from sorrow for humanity.

Importance of Comprehensive Insight

• Emphasizing the need for complete emptying of conscious content rather than selective release highlights logical progression toward liberation.

• Acknowledgment that societal influences shape individual consciousness underscores the importance of awareness in personal transformation.

Understanding Consciousness and Original Experience

The Nature of Knowledge and Experience

• When living within a certain consciousness, there is a lack of novelty; it resembles someone who has accumulated extensive knowledge but cannot experience anything original.

• A person with vast knowledge across various subjects expressed that despite their understanding, they felt unable to encounter anything truly new or original, highlighting the tragedy of such a state.

Responsibility in Sustaining Consciousness

• The speaker questions what happens to the content of consciousness that is not inherently personal when one selectively lets go of some aspects while clinging strongly to others, suggesting this perpetuates existing consciousness.

• Individuals bear full responsibility for their emotional states (e.g., violence, anxiety), as these feelings contribute to sustaining collective consciousness. Liberation from this content can lead to profound insights and moral growth.

The Value of Liberation

• Achieving freedom from the burdensome content of consciousness allows individuals to infuse life with new meaning rooted in love and compassion, which are intertwined with intelligence.