The Talent Code - Draftsmen S3E27

Introduction

In this section, Stan and Marshall introduce the podcast and discuss the name of their show.

Introducing the Draftsmen Show

• Stan and Marshall express excitement about being back in the studio together.

• They discuss the name of their podcast, "The Draftsmen Show," and a misunderstanding about its lyrics.

Discussing "The Talent Code"

In this section, Stan and Marshall discuss "The Talent Code" by Daniel Coyle.

The Book

• They introduce "The Talent Code" as a book that stuck with them over time.

• Marshall shares that he read it in 2015 and enjoyed it more on his second read-through.

• They joke about the pronunciation of "eager."

Other Self-Help Books

• They briefly mention other self-help books they have reviewed together, including "Art and Fear" and "The War of Art."

• They struggle to remember the title of another book they discussed, but eventually recall it as "The Art of Learning" by Josh Waitzkin.

The Focus of "The Talent Code"

• They describe how "The Talent Code" focuses on practical tips for efficient practice rather than innate talent.

• Marshall expresses interest in reading "The Art of Learning."

Comparing Self-Help Books

In this section, Stan and Marshall compare different self-help books they have read.

Themes

• They summarize the themes of each book: fearlessness in "Art and Fear," perseverance in "The War of Art," and practical tips for efficient practice in "The Talent Code."

Deep Practice and Talent Development

In this section, the speakers discuss the book "The Talent Code" by Daniel Coyle and debate whether talent is innate or developed through practice.

Is Talent Innate or Developed?

• The speaker believes that talent is developed, grown, and nurtured.

• While the author of "The Talent Code" doesn't deny the role of genetics and environment in talent development, he leans towards the idea that skills can be developed even if one isn't naturally gifted in a particular area.

• The counterargument is that talent does exist and some people are born with raw material that gives them an advantage.

Three Keys to Developing Talent

• According to "The Talent Code," there are three keys to developing talent: deep practice, ignition, and masterful coaching.

• Deep practice involves practicing a skill in a way that challenges you to constantly improve.

• Ignition refers to finding motivation and passion for a skill early on in life.

• Masterful coaching involves having a coach who can provide guidance, feedback, and support throughout the learning process.

The Mysterious Nature of Talent

• While there are many variables that contribute to why one person may have an inclination towards a certain skill over another person, there are still many mysterious aspects of talent that we don't fully understand.

• Putting labels on these mysterious aspects creates awe and wonder about where talents come from.

Genetics, Talent and Deep Practice

In this section, the speakers discuss how genetics plays a role in talent and how deep practice can help individuals improve their skills.

Genetics and Talent

• Genetics plays a role in determining an individual's height and certain physical abilities.

• Everyone has unique talents that are determined by their genetics.

• Certain abilities such as hearing or vision may be better for some individuals than others.

Deep Practice

• To improve skills, one needs to get motivated through ignition.

• Once motivated, deep focus and deep practice are necessary to improve skills.

• Focused strategic practice involves going beyond one's current abilities and making mistakes to constantly correct oneself.

• Deliberate practice is necessary to improve skills rather than just going through the motions of practicing.

Embracing Discomfort and Mistakes

In this section, the speakers discuss how embracing discomfort and mistakes can lead to improvement.

Importance of Mistakes

• Mistakes should be viewed as opportunities for improvement rather than failures.

• The book emphasizes that excellence can be attained through measurable or quantifiable physical changes when gaining talent.

Paradigm of Mastery

• 6-minute paradigm towards mastery: Practicing something just beyond your current ability level so you make mistakes but then correct them.

Encouragement

• Staggering baby trying to learn how to walk is used as an example of embracing discomfort.

The Importance of Making Mistakes

In this section, the speakers discuss how making mistakes is important for improvement.

Compass to Improvement

• Mistakes should be viewed as a compass to guide individuals towards improvement.

• The book emphasizes that embracing discomfort and mistakes can lead to positive results.

Conclusion

• The book provides specific examples and strategies for focused strategic practice and deliberate practice.

The Importance of Celebrating Hard Work Over Natural Talent

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of celebrating hard work over natural talent and how it can lead to a growth mindset.

Celebrating Hard Work

• It's important to celebrate where you're not good with the attitude that "If I just explore around in here long enough, I'm gonna get good at this".

• Instead of telling your child "Good job, you're so smart", tell them "good job, you worked hard" to promote hard work over being naturally smart.

• Research shows that giving a person a compliment on who they are tends to make them do worse than saying "gosh, I'm so pleased with how hard you worked on that".

Growth Mindset

• Knowing where to congratulate ourselves and each other is important. Congratulating each other on who we are leads to entitlement and fear of losing our identity. Encouraging ourselves and others to keep making ourselves uncomfortable promotes growth.

Deep Practice

In this section, the speaker talks about deep practice and how modifying things we want to get better at can help us practice more deeply.

Brazilian Soccer Team Example

• Brazilian soccer kids play a different version of soccer using a smaller ball that is twice the weight, fewer players on the field, and a much smaller field.

• All these modifications prepare them for playing regular soccer by making everything more difficult.

• Deep practice involves slowing things down, breaking them up into small pieces, and observing each piece. Chunking is the process of breaking up a motion into pieces and practicing each individually.

Other Examples

• In music, take chunks out and practice playing those parts separately to get comfortable with every piece as its own.

• In golf, there are many parts to having a good golf swing that can be broken up and practiced individually.

Overpreparing and Chunking

In this section, the speaker discusses overpreparing and chunking as a way to get a picture of the whole.

Getting a Picture of the Whole

• Overpreparing can be helpful in getting context for an objective.

• Chunking involves breaking down a task into smaller parts, similar to how a mechanic takes apart a car.

• Other techniques mentioned include doing things with your eyes closed or backwards.

Applying Chunking to Art

• The speaker discusses applying chunking to art by using puzzle pieces as metaphors for composition studies.

• Other metaphors used include walls, windows, doors, and gazebos.

• By switching between different metaphors, students can assimilate different ways of looking at a picture.

Specific Ways to Study Masters

In this section, the speaker talks about how his job as a teacher is not just telling people to study masters but also giving specific ways to study them.

Masterful Coaching

• The book has a big section on masterful coaching.

Primal Cues

In this section, the speaker talks about his favorite chapter in the book called Primal Cues.

Ignition

• The chapter called Primal Cues includes information on ignition.

The Birthday Thing

In this section, the speakers discuss a research study that was conducted to see how long students would spend on a math problem. They gave some students the birth date falsely that's the same birth date of the person taking the test.

Research Study

• Students were given a math problem after reading an encouraging story from a person who wasn't good at math and got good at math.

• On some of them, they gave them the birth date falsely that's the same birth date of the person taking the test.

• It changed the amount of time they would spend solving the problem subconsciously.

• This is what Daniel Coyle calls ignition - "an external trigger that motivates us to get good at something".

Chimpanzee Story

In this section, one of the speakers tells a story about a chimpanzee named Cody and how he displayed human-like behavior during an interaction with a human child.

Cody and Human Child Interaction

• Trainers brought Cody, a three-year-old chimpanzee, to show animation students.

• Cody got really interested in one kid who was around 10 years old because he was looking him over since he's like him.

• They started jumping together and competing until it became clear that there was no way a human kid could compete with Cody.

• When Cody landed, he looked at the kid and made faces displaying his superiority.

Identity vs Competition

In this section, one speaker talks about how identity can be important for motivation without necessarily being competitive.

Importance of Identity

• One speaker believes that identity can be important for motivation without necessarily being competitive.

• He cared very much about who are the TV writers, songwriters, and people who do things he admires.

• He looked at them with a sense of "oh".

Identity vs Competition

In this section, the speakers discuss the difference between identity and competition. They talk about how people identify with a group and want to fight for that group to prove that their group is good. The speakers also touch on how some people are motivated by a competitive edge while others are not.

Identifying with a Group

• When you identify with a group, it's us versus them.

• It's like identifying with this group and wanting to fight for that group to prove that your group is good.

• People root for the team in their city even if they're going to lose because they just really want them to win - screw the other guys...

Competitive Edge

• Some people are motivated by a competitive edge but not everybody is.

• The speaker has very little of that competitive edge in him. He has never cared who won any game or followed sports.

• The speaker has never tuned into the Olympics for more than a few minutes and hardly ever cared about the Academy Awards.

Counter Point

• There will be a counterpoint where someone will root for one side so viciously and so much that they'll just wanna kill the other side because that's what happens with characters who are one way is that their counterpoint will be more extreme than everybody else.

Marshall's Lack of Concern About Who Wins

In this section, the speakers discuss Marshall's lack of concern about who wins games or competitions.

Marshall's Perspective

• Marshall has very little of that competitive edge in him.

• Marshall has never cared who won any game or followed sports.

• Marshall has never tuned into the Olympics for more than a few minutes and hardly ever cared about the Academy Awards.

Rooting for Someone

• The speaker asks if Marshall ever roots for someone when watching two teams or people competing, like during the Olympics or whatever it is, but he says no.

Finding Something to Care About

• The speakers discuss how everyone cares deeply about something, even if it's not sports. For example, Marshall cares about students and learning.

• They talk about how there are different things to care about besides competition and winning. For example, rooting for students against something else is a different thing than competition.

Ignition

In this section, the speakers discuss how permission or ignition can lead to people doing better and achieving things that were once thought impossible. They use examples from sports, music, and art to illustrate their point.

Permission to Do Better

• Permission or ignition can help people do better.

• The example of breaking the four-minute mile shows how once someone does something thought impossible, others follow suit.

• Recording technology allowed musicians to hear what others were doing and upped the ante for everyone.

• Once Kim Jung Gi's work was put on video, it inspired others to try and do the same.

Competition and Identity

• Dogtown and Z-Boys are an example of competition within a group with a shared identity.

• There was competition within the group as well as outside of it. The person who rose to the top was in charge.

Note that there are only two sections since there is not much content in this transcript.

Creating Hotbeds of Talent

In this section, the speaker talks about hotbeds of talent and how they are created. He identifies specific traits that create hotbeds and explains how patience is one of them.

Identifying Traits That Create Hotbeds

• Hotbeds are groups of highly skilled, talented people in one place.

• Traits that create hotbeds include identity, competition, and patience.

• It takes three to five years for ignition to take place in a hotbed.

• Working harder on the right things is more effective than working harder in general.

Creating a Hotbed Within Your Friends

• To create a hotbed within your friends, read a book over a period of time and discuss it with them.

• Substance should be understood before style.

• Each person within the group should have their own specific kind or style.

Hard Skills vs Soft Skills

• Hard skills are the fundamentals that everyone needs to learn.

• Soft skills make up your style and can be interpreted in whatever way you want.

Claiming Territory

In this section, the speakers discuss how individuals can claim territory within a group of talent. They also talk about how different manifestations of the same genre can unite people.

Hard Skills and Discipline

• Each individual in a group has their own hard skill and discipline.

• Individuals who pour themselves into their work and care about it are united.

• Different manifestations of the same genre can unite people.

Claiming Territory

• Teams have members with different skills, such as hitting, pitching, or running.

• Each member claims their own territory within the team based on their skill set.

Myelin and Talent Development

This section discusses myelin and its role in talent development. The speakers explain how neural pathways get coded with more myelin through practice, leading to faster and more efficient pathways. They also discuss how doing new things constantly encourages myelin growth in the brain.

Myelin and Neural Pathways

• Myelin is a chemical in the brain that codes neural pathways.

• Practicing an action repeatedly leads to more myelin being coded onto that pathway.

• More myelin on a neural pathway makes it faster and more efficient.

Encouraging Myelin Growth

• Doing new things beyond what you're currently good at encourages myelin growth.

• Fixing mistakes also creates new pathways and adds more myelins to existing ones.

Objective Talent Development

• Talent development can be seen under a microscope through myelin growth.

• Musicians who constantly work on problems develop talent.

• Neural pathways and muscle growth can be objectively measured.

Deep Practice and Myelin

• Deep practice is the way to get myelin.

• Bad food destroys myelin and puts it into sleep mode.

• Doing new things beyond what you're currently good at encourages myelin growth.

Myelin and Skill Development

In this section, the speakers discuss the role of myelin in skill development and how it changes with age. They also talk about the importance of efficient practice and building on existing skills.

Myelin Production and Age

• Younger people produce more myelin until around 30 years old when production becomes flat.

• After 50 years old, myelin production starts to drop but it is still possible to develop up to 5% more myelin as you get older.

• It is unlikely that someone over a certain age will start a whole new profession and excel at it, but building on existing skills can be effective.

Efficient Practice

• Instead of practicing for longer periods of time, focus on making your practice sessions efficient and focused.

• After three to five hours of practice, your brain becomes too tired to effectively learn.

• Practicing beyond this point can become a waste of time and reinforce laziness.

Building on Existing Skills

• When observing someone who excels in a new profession later in life, they are usually building on something they were already doing without knowing it.

• For example, Barry Sonnenfeld was raised in an environment where lighting was important due to his parents' business. This unknowingly prepared him for his future career as a cinematographer.

The speakers also briefly mention diplomatic salesmanship as another skill that can be built upon.

Coaching and Skills

In this section, the speakers discuss coaching and skills. They talk about how coaches can either ignite motivation or support deep practice, and how there are two different types of coaches. They also discuss the importance of providing feedback to students so they can keep improving.

Types of Coaches

• There are two different types of coaches: motivational coaches and coaches that help with practice.

• Early on, it's better to have a more motivational coach to get kids excited about learning.

• Later on, once kids are already excited about learning, it's more important to have a coach that can provide feedback and support them in their practice.

Providing Feedback

• Coaches should provide real subtle data on student performance so they can keep improving.

• Coaches should be able to adapt their teaching style based on each student's personality type.

Creative vs Technical Skills

• Soccer is an example of a creative skill because players have to think on their feet and make choices on the fly.

• Playing a Mozart violin concerto is an example of a technical skill because it requires specific technical excellence.

• Improvisation is somewhere in between creative and technical skills.

Artists' Skills

In this section, the speakers discuss different kinds of artists' skills. They talk about improvisationalists who make up their own music while playing it, as well as artists who play prenotated pieces like Bach.

Different Kinds of Artists

• There are two different kinds of artists: improvisationalists and artists who play prenotated pieces.

• Improvisationalists make up their own music while playing it, while artists who play prenotated pieces like Bach have to work out technical problems beforehand.

Conclusion

• The speakers emphasize the importance of coaches and teachers in helping students develop their skills. They stress that there is no one-size-fits-all approach to teaching and that coaches should be able to adapt their teaching style based on each student's needs.

Improvisation and Strategy

In this section, the speakers discuss the relationship between improvisation and strategy. They explore how composition is a form of strategizing and how coaches can provide feedback to help students improve their improvisational skills.

Composition as Strategizing

• Composition involves making good decisions based on fundamentals of composition.

• Coaches can provide feedback by presenting new scenarios for students to analyze.

• Coaches can help students anticipate future events by identifying cues that point to certain outcomes.

Improvisation as a Technical Skill

• Improvisation is a technical skill that requires practice.

• Practicing improv involves improving one's ability to observe, orient, decide, and act.

• Efficient practice requires feedback and focus on specific areas for improvement.

Wicked Learning

• Wicked learning involves frustrating problem solvers with changing problems to strengthen their skills.

• Improvisation skills are likely to be strengthened through wicked learning.

• Creativity arises from the excitement of creating and being the composer.

Videotaping for Improvement

• Videotaping oneself can help identify micro-decisions made during creative activities like fighting or improvising.

• Observing these micro-decisions allows for better decision-making in future situations.

Observing and Learning a Craft

In this section, the speakers discuss how to get good at a craft that requires creativity. They also talk about the qualities of good coaches and why they are usually older.

Learning a Craft

• To get good at a craft that requires creativity, one needs to observe, collect data, and fix mistakes.

• A person who is good at their craft is usually very sensitive to every minor thing and where it goes off.

• The best coaches are not necessarily the best players but have gone through years of learning both the craft and how to bring out the best in others.

Qualities of Good Coaches

• Teaching helps you learn, so doers who teach do better.

• Good coaches have gone through their own middle-aged ignition where they realize what they were missing in their craft and adjust accordingly.

• Doers that teach do better than those who can't teach or only teach a little.

Conclusion

• Pages 217 and 218 of the book "The Little Book of Talent" sum up the discussion on observing and learning a craft as well as the qualities of good coaches.

The Little Book of Talent

In this section, the speakers discuss the book "The Little Book of Talent" and its key takeaways.

Attitude Towards Failure

• A changed attitude towards failure is valuable.

• Failure should not be seen as a setback but as a path forward.

• Seeking out mistakes and observing oneself can lead to improvement.

Creativity in Practice

• Making practice harder by intentionally making more mistakes can lead to improvement.

• Being creative with practice conditions, such as changing the size of the playing field or adding obstacles, can also lead to improvement.

The Little Book of Talent

• "The Little Book of Talent" is a book that provides 52 tips on how to practice correctly.

• One tip involves picking role models and imagining oneself doing their motions.

• Patience is important when learning something new; it takes eight weeks to get good at something.

• Positive thinking is encouraged instead of focusing on avoiding mistakes.

Overall, "The Little Book of Talent" emphasizes the importance of having a positive attitude towards failure and being creative with one's practice methods. It also provides practical tips for effective learning.

The Importance of Seeking What You Want

In this section, the speakers discuss the difference between seeking what you want and self-protection. They also talk about the importance of enthusiasm, love, passion, and desire to excel.

Seeking What You Want

• Seeking what you want is different from self-protection.

• One should seek what they want with enthusiasm, love, passion, and a desire to excel.

Criticisms of the Book

• The overuse of the term "myelin" was a minor criticism of the book.

• The speakers recommend reading the book again with a group of people who are motivated to achieve their goals.

Tips for Improving Neural Pathways

• Visualizing neural pathways getting faster and more efficient can help improve them.

• Using metaphors such as "wires" in your brain can make it easier to understand how neural pathways work.

Commentary Episode on Podcast

• The speakers joke about doing a commentary episode on their podcast where they review each other's reviews of their own work.

• They suggest bringing in an outside commentator for added perspective.

Conclusion

• The speakers end with some playful banter and awkwardness before signing off.

The Worst Ending

In this section, the group is saying goodbye to Marshall and discussing how bad the ending was.

Saying Goodbye to Marshall

• Marshall is leaving.

• Everyone says goodbye to him.

Discussing the Ending

• The group comments that it was the worst ending.

• Someone asks to see it again, but they decide not to.