ZOE CHANCE on Influence Is Your Superpower | What Got You There Podcast

Introduction

In this section, Sean Delaney introduces the guest, Zoe Chance, a Harvard-trained behavioral scientist. They discuss the powers of influence and how to become more influential.

Getting in the Zone

• Zoe listens to music before interviews or talks to get herself pumped up.

• She listened to "Bella Ciao," an Italian folk song that is an anti-fascist anthem from the 1940s before this interview.

• Sean admires Zoe's presence on stage and asks if there are things she does leading up to an interview or talk she gives just so that she is in a great state.

Mindset for Happiness

In this section, Sean asks Zoe about her mindset that she would love everyone to take on with them.

Vicarious Happiness

• Zoe's mindset is the ability to have vicarious happiness for other people's success.

• It strips away almost all of the potential jealousy and gives her an infinite capacity for happiness because you can only have a certain number of good things happen in your own life.

• If you get to be happy about other people's success then there's just no limit.

• This mindset explains at least 40% of her happiness.

Being Happy for Other People

In this section, Sean and Zoe discuss being happy for other people and how it has affected their lives.

Modeling from Her Mom

• Zoe got her ability to have vicarious happiness from her mom who gets excited about other people thriving and doing well.

• Growing up with her mom gave her this trait which has helped strip away jealousy and given her an infinite capacity for happiness.

• Many people have been trained not to brag so they don't share their successes.

• Zoe loves it when people brag to her about the good things that are going on.

Unique Experiences

In this section, Sean mentions how Zoe has had unique experiences that have shaped her into an incredibly smart individual.

Shaped by Experiences

• Sean mentions how Zoe has had a unique set of experiences that have shaped her into an incredibly smart individual.

• No further discussion takes place in this section.

Zoe's Growth Journey

In this section, Zoe talks about her growth journey and how she has evolved over the years.

Different Phases of Life

• Zoe describes herself as a "growth junkie" who changes every five years.

• She went through different phases in life, including the quiet and nerdy phase, party planning phase, transactional phase, exponential nerd phase, and contribution mode phase.

Fear of Financial Instability

• Zoe grew up poor which gave her fear about financial stability that kept her in a self-focused state for longer than necessary.

• She believes that many people in Gen Y and Gen Z are demanding meaning from their work and are not willing to sell their soul for money.

Turning Point

• The turning point for Zoe was when she shifted to a service mindset where she wanted to create something that only she could teach.

• She created a course at Yale that was designed specifically by her.

Introduction

In this section, the speaker introduces herself and her background in sales, marketing, theater, movies, and research. She explains that she created a course to help MBA students become more influential people.

Background

• The speaker has experience in sales, marketing, theater, movies, and research.

• She created a course to help MBA students become more influential people.

Becoming More Influential

In this section, the speaker discusses how she became an influential person despite not having natural charisma or privilege. She explains that it took conscious effort and practice to learn what it takes to become an influential person.

Becoming Influential

• The speaker became an influential person despite not having natural charisma or privilege.

• It took conscious effort and practice to learn what it takes to become an influential person.

Nature Journaling

In this section, the speaker shares a personal habit called "Nature Journaling" that helps her clear her mind before writing. She explains that every line begins with "I do not deny" as part of Nietzsche's philosophy of becoming someone who does not deny.

Nature Journaling

• The speaker has a personal habit called "Nature Journaling" that helps her clear her mind before writing.

• Every line begins with "I do not deny" as part of Nietzsche's philosophy of becoming someone who does not deny.

Self-Deception

In this section, the speaker discusses self-deception and shares insights from her research on the topic. She explains that people tend to deceive themselves about romantic things more than anything else because self-deception is hard to perceive in the moment.

Self-Deception

• People tend to deceive themselves about romantic things more than anything else.

• Self-deception is hard to perceive in the moment.

Understanding Self-Deception

In this section, the speaker talks about how people tend to be overconfident and think they are better than they actually are. They discuss how it is difficult to see our own flaws but easier to see them in others.

Acknowledging Flaws

• The speaker discusses how acknowledging their own flaws helps them have humility.

• Asking for advice on specific things that need improvement instead of asking what's wrong with oneself can help identify areas for growth.

• The speaker recommends using a list of specific mistakes leaders make from Marshall Goldsmith's book "What Got You Here Won't Get You There" and having others pick one from the list to give feedback on.

Giving Advice

• The speaker talks about adding too much value when giving advice and emphasizes the importance of letting others come up with their own solutions.

• Instead of giving ideas, the speaker suggests asking questions that help seed ideas in someone else's mind.

Changing Minds and Behaviors

In this section, the speakers discuss why changing someone's mind does not necessarily lead to a change in behavior. They also talk about making New Year's resolutions and why most people fail at keeping them.

Changing Minds vs. Behaviors

• The speakers discuss how changing someone's mind does not always lead to a change in behavior.

• They talk about New Year's resolutions and why most people fail at keeping them.

The Importance of Ease in Behavior Change

In this section, the speaker discusses how ease is a stronger predictor of behavior than motivation or satisfaction. He gives an example of a public health campaign that was successful in raising awareness but failed to change behavior due to lack of ease.

Ease is Key to Following Through on Good Intentions

• Ease is the best predictor of behavior.

• Changing someone's mind is not enough if it hasn't gotten any easier for them to do what you want them to do.

• Example: The "Five a Day" campaign successfully raised awareness about eating fruits and vegetables, but did not change behavior because it did not make it easier for people to eat more fruits and vegetables.

Making Healthy Choices Easier

• To make healthy choices easier, one needs to cultivate their environment by removing temptations.

• Internalizing healthy habits as part of one's identity can also make it easier to follow through with those habits.

• People who have organized their lives around healthy eating don't resist temptations; they simply don't have them around.

Getting People to Change Behavior

In this section, the speaker talks about getting people to change their behavior and shares an example from his work with Google.

Example from Google

• Speaker shares an example from his work with Google where they wanted employees to take the stairs instead of the elevator.

• They made taking the stairs more convenient by putting up signs and making stairwells more attractive.

• They also made taking the elevator less convenient by making it slower and less attractive.

• As a result, more people started taking the stairs.

Key Takeaways

• To change behavior, make the desired behavior easier and the undesired behavior harder.

• Make the desired behavior more convenient and attractive.

• Remove barriers to the desired behavior.

Introduction

In this section, the speaker introduces herself and talks about her partnership with Google on various projects related to encouraging sustainable behavior.

Hatzis' Partnership with Google

• Hatzis worked with Google on various projects related to encouraging sustainable behavior.

• Projects included encouraging people to eat more vegetables and discouraging mindless snacking.

• One project involved observing people in a break room to see how their proximity to snacks affected their snacking habits.

• Results of the study led to changes in the design of corporate break rooms.

Curiosity About Influence

In this section, the speaker talks about her curiosity about influence and how it started when she worked in sales during college.

Working in Sales

• The speaker's curiosity about influence began when she worked in door-to-door sales during college.

• She learned that approaching people with warmth, enthusiasm, kindness, and humor was more effective than simply asking for something.

• This experience led her to read Cialdini's book "Influence" and eventually pursue a career studying influence.

Introduction

In this section, the speaker talks about a misperception that is hurting a lot of people and explains how it contributes to the gender wage gap.

Women's Misperception

• Women believe they shouldn't ask for too much.

• This belief leads women to ask for less than they deserve or less than men do.

• However, when women ask for as much as men do, they get paid as much as men do.

• Backlash against women who are perceived as selfish or entitled is more common than for men.

Negotiation Skills

In this section, the speaker talks about negotiation skills and how important it is to practice them.

Importance of Practice

• The speaker emphasizes the importance of getting practice in high-stakes situations like negotiating a job.

• Pushing back on resistance is a superpower that can be developed through practice.

• Successful salespeople understand and practice getting curious about resistance instead of pushing back.

Aikido Move

• When we reject someone, we anticipate that person will resist us because that has been our experience.

• It's an i master level aikido move to have openness when someone expresses concern or objection.

The Power of Influence

In this section, the speaker discusses the positive impact of influence and how it is often associated with negative connotations due to social media influencers. She emphasizes that influence is power and that we all have a responsibility to cultivate an understanding of it.

Influence as Power

• Influence is power, like electricity. It can be used for good or bad.

• We need to learn how to practice influence in order to get things done in the world.

• Power-hungry people are already studying influence, so we should too.

Practicing Influence

• The book "Mastering Influence and Persuasion" teaches practical techniques for practicing influence without resorting to heavy-handed sales tactics.

• Students who take the course at Yale report that asking more often is the most life-changing shift they make.

• Asking is fundamental and something we don't do enough until we start practicing it intentionally.

The Importance of Asking

In this section, the speaker emphasizes the importance of asking and how it can lead to opportunities that would otherwise be missed. She encourages entrepreneurs and everyone else to practice asking more often.

The Practice of Asking

• Being someone who is willing to ask is a life-changing shift.

• Practicing asking leads us to realize how much we haven't been asking and all the missed opportunities.

• Entrepreneurs can benefit greatly from learning how to ask effectively.

The Power of the Subconscious Mind

In this section, the speaker discusses how our subconscious mind has a significant impact on our behavior and decision-making process.

System One and System Two

• Our subconscious mind is vastly more powerful than our conscious mind in determining our behavior.

• Researchers estimate that 95% of our behavior is driven by the unconscious system, which includes gut reactions, visceral responses, quick judgments, and habits.

• When trying to influence someone else, it's essential to consider how to influence their unconscious mind and gut reactions rather than just making a persuasive case with facts and data.

• The unconscious reaction happens first, followed by the conscious reaction as a second guesser.

Emotional Responses in Marketing

• Ads that appeal to the unconscious emotional part are more successful than those that appeal to the rational part.

• It's crucial to consider emotional reactions and immediate responses when interacting with other people.

Personal Influences

• The speaker mentions their mother as one of their biggest influences in shaping who they are today.

The Influence of the Speaker's Mother

In this section, the speaker talks about how her mother brought joy and magic to everyday life experiences. She shares some examples of how her mother made things fun and exciting for her and her sister.

The Joyful Influence of the Speaker's Mother

• The speaker's mother had a vicarious joy for other people's success.

• Her mother ran a summer camp where she did crazy things like blindfolding them, dropping them off in the middle of nowhere with a compass and topographical map, and asking them to find their way back.

• Her mother would hide puzzle pieces in the woods that would lead to a treasure map taking them to a pond where they could find buried treasure.

• Her mother had counselors write their own songs so that the camp has its own folk songs.

• Her mother asked them to do a rain dance when they were camping out, which resulted in it raining out of nowhere.

• When they didn't have money for ice cream, her mother took them on bike trails to look for change from the universe until they had enough money.

Spontaneous Interactions with Parents

In this section, the speaker talks about research done on what children remember most about their parents. She shares that it is often spontaneous interactions that bring joy and delight into everyday life.

Impactful Moments with Parents

• Research shows that children remember spontaneous interactions with parents more than anything else.

• These joyful moments come out of nowhere and create lasting memories.

• The speaker shares that she wants to create similar experiences for her son, like creating a treasure map.

Inspirational Book Recommendation

In this section, the speaker talks about one of her favorite books, "Love Does" by Bob Goff. She shares how it has inspired her and how it aligns with the message she teaches.

"Love Does" by Bob Goff

• "Love Does" is one of the speaker's favorite books.

• It is written by Bob Goff and is deeply Christian, but as a non-religious person, the speaker still found it inspiring.

• The book is about audaciousness and doing things like having family conversations around the dinner table after 9/11 to figure out what they can do to help.

Bob Goff's Audacity and Kindness

In this section, the speaker talks about how Bob Goff's book "Love Does" inspired her to be audacious and kind. She shares a story from the book where Bob and his family wrote letters to world leaders asking if they could meet with them, which eventually led to them going on an adventure around the world meeting these leaders.

Bob Goff's Adventure

• Bob Goff's book "Love Does" inspired the speaker to be audacious and kind.

• Bob and his family wrote letters to world leaders asking if they could meet with them.

• They received responses from some of the leaders saying yes, so they went on an adventure around the world meeting these leaders.

• They gave each leader a key to their house and invited them to come stay anytime.

Using Influence for Good

In this section, the speaker talks about her philosophy on influence and how she uses it for good. She discusses her work with climate activists and donating half of her book proceeds to charity.

Philosophy on Influence

• The speaker believes that as you become more influential, you should work on bigger problems with people who are doing more to solve those problems.

• The existential problem facing us today is the climate crisis, so she spends time working with climate activists and helping them learn more using influence tools.

Donating Book Proceeds

• The speaker donated half of her book advance proceeds to charity because she already had all of her needs taken care of.

• She donated the first $50,000 to 350.org, a grassroots climate activist organization.

• She believes that investing in the climate crisis now is more valuable than investing in the future because we have the opportunity to make game-changing world historic shifts.

Influences and Superpowers

In this section, Zoe Chance talks about her superpower and who she would like to have a long-form conversation with.

Long-Form Conversation

• Zoe Chance's superpower is influence.

• She would love to have a sit-down long-form conversation with Brit Marling, her favorite actress, director, and writer.

Brit Marling

In this section, Zoe Chance talks about Brit Marling and recommends the show "The OA."

About Brit Marling

• Brit Marling is an actress, director, and writer.

• She is most famous for being the star of the show "The OA" on Netflix.

• Zoe Chance admires her creativity and brilliance.

Recommendation

• Zoe Chance highly recommends "The OA," even for non-sci-fi fans.

Book Recommendation

In this section, Zoe Chance talks about her book "Influence Is Your Superpower" and where listeners can find it.

Book Recommendation

• Zoe Chance wrote a book called "Influence Is Your Superpower."

• The audiobook version is available on Audible.

• Listeners can check out her website zoechants.com for more information.

Conclusion

In this section, Sean asks listeners to subscribe to the podcast page and newsletter.

Subscription Reminder

• Listeners should subscribe to the What Got You There podcast page to be notified of new episodes every Sunday.

• Momentum Monday is a weekly newsletter that provides a quick synthesis of everything Sean has been reading, listening to, and watching behind the scenes.