From Hypercasual to Hybridcasual - The Estoty Portfolio story (#86)

Importance of Core Gameplay Progressions

The discussion begins with the importance of core gameplay progressions in a game.

Core Gameplay Progressions

• Core gameplay progressions are crucial for a game's success.

• The example of the "hubby model" and different games in the Martian series is mentioned.

• It is emphasized that having excellent core gameplay progressions is essential for a game to be considered amazing.

Studios' Ability to Work Independently

The question arises whether studios will be able to work independently without relying on publishers.

Independence from Publishers

• The question is raised about whether studios can leave publishers forever and develop games on their own.

• The hosts discuss their role as consultants working with multiple companies on user acquisition, ad monetization, and game design.

• They mention that they are not discussing the latest industry news but rather sharing insights from their day-to-day experiences.

Introduction to the Discussion Topic

The hosts introduce themselves and set the context for the discussion topic.

Introduction

• Session number 86 is introduced, with Mel Anarich, Felix Braberg, and Yu as hosts and consultants.

• They mention working with multiple companies on their games from user acquisition, ad monetization, and game design perspectives.

• Today's topic is introduced as "Hyper Casual to Hybrid Casual," focusing on a specific studio's transition into hybrid casual games.

Recap of Recent Trip to South Korea

The hosts briefly discuss their recent trip to South Korea before diving into the main topic.

Trip to South Korea

• The hosts mention that they just returned from South Korea and express their excitement about the trip.

• They thank the organizers for making it happen and describe it as an amazing experience.

• The hosts mention that they attended a conference and had interesting conversations with local and international companies, including Century Games.

Introduction to Studio Transition

The hosts introduce the studio that is transitioning from hyper casual to hybrid casual games.

Studio Transition

• The discussion focuses on a studio called Esto Studio, which was previously published by Say Games.

• They mention that Esto Studio's games were big hits when published by Say Games but now the studio is venturing into the hybrid casual space independently.

Discussion about Korea Trip

The hosts continue discussing their recent trip to South Korea.

Korea Trip Experience

• The hosts briefly discuss their experience in South Korea, mentioning how Felix suggested renting a yacht for a chat session during their last visit.

• They describe the trip as cold but worth it, with beautiful views of fireworks under a giant bridge in Busan.

• They mention meeting new friends from Century Games and having interesting conversations with them.

Comparison between Conferences

The hosts compare their experiences at different conferences, specifically comparing G-Star in South Korea to Gamescom.

Conference Comparison

• The hosts compare G-Star to Gamescom, noting that G-Star was smaller in size but still enjoyable.

• They mention that one downside of G-Star was the lack of a merchandising area compared to Gamescom.

• Despite the differences, they express enthusiasm for attending future conferences like G-Star again.

Introduction to Hidden Gem Studio - ATI

The hosts introduce ATI as a hidden gem studio in the hybrid casual gaming space.

Hidden Gem Studio - ATI

• The hosts introduce ATI as a studio that has always worked one step behind but has had their games published by various companies.

• They mention some of ATI's popular games, including Squad Alpha, Johnny Trigger, Match Hit, My Little Universe, Knife Hit, Flippy Race, and House Paint.

• ATI is highlighted as one of the biggest gaming companies with over 1 billion downloads, 200 million active players, and multiple top 10 hits.

Remo's Experience with ATI Games

Remo shares his experience playing some of ATI's games.

Remo's Experience

• Remo mentions playing Squad Alpha, Johnny Trigger, and Flippy Race among ATI's games.

• He also recalls a snow-themed game related to an anime he watched on a plane.

Discussion about Kayac from Japan

The hosts discuss Kayac from Japan and Remo's knowledge of different game genres.

Kayac from Japan

• The hosts mention Kayac as another hyper casual game company from Japan.

• They highlight Remo's expertise in hyper casual and hardcore games but note his limited knowledge of core loops in hybrid casual games.

• It is mentioned that Remo has now familiarized himself with hybrid casual games.

Success and Growth of ATI

The hosts discuss the success and growth of ATI as a gaming company.

Success and Growth

• The hosts mention that despite working behind the scenes for other publishers, ATI has achieved significant success with numerous hit games.

• They emphasize that ATI is likely one of the biggest gaming companies globally in terms of user base.

• It is noted that Remo recently discovered ATI's prominence and shared it with the hosts.

The transcript provided does not cover the entire video.

New Section

The speaker discusses the revenue generated by popular mobile games and introduces the topic of hybrid casual games.

Revenue of Mobile Games

• According to Sensor Tower, the biggest titles in terms of revenue on in-app purchases (IAP) are making between two to three million dollars per month.

• Squad Alpha is currently the biggest game in terms of revenue.

• The speaker mentions that they had a quick look at Sensor Tower before the discussion.

New Section

The speaker shares their screen to show data from Ubisoft's games and discusses the downloads and revenue trends.

Data from Ubisoft Games

• The speaker shares their screen to show data from Ubisoft's games since January.

• They mention Catchup, which is now Ubisoft, as one of the studios whose games' data they will be discussing.

• They highlight the significant number of downloads Johnny Trigger received in one month (42 million).

• The focus shifts to analyzing revenue trends in hyper-casual and hybrid casual games.

New Section

The speaker emphasizes the importance of looking at revenue trends rather than just downloads. They mention Estoty as a studio that consistently produces successful games.

Importance of Revenue Trends

• The speaker points out that looking at revenue provides insights into industry trends.

• They mention that hyper-casual games are transitioning towards hybrid casual games.

• Estoty is highlighted as a studio that consistently releases successful hits regardless of genre or gameplay style.

New Section

The speaker introduces their intention to analyze game progression and core gameplay elements among different companies within the hybrid casual genre.

Analyzing Game Progression

• The speaker describes this episode as a detective work to understand how different companies adopt and modify core gameplay elements.

• They express curiosity about the companies behind big publishers in the hybrid casual genre.

• The speaker mentions their intention to explore how games borrow from each other's progression and core gameplay mechanics.

New Section

The speaker acknowledges the contribution of Two and a Half Gamers channel in uncovering hidden gems. They mention awards given for game design and helpfulness within their community.

Acknowledging Contributions

• The speaker thanks Two and a Half Gamers channel for bringing up interesting findings.

• They mention that the SL channel is open for discussion and discovering hidden gems.

• Awards are mentioned, including "Hook of the Year" by Yako and an award for the most helpful person in their Slack group in terms of game design.

New Section

The speaker introduces "My Little Universe" as a game they will analyze further. They discuss potential awards related to the game.

Analyzing "My Little Universe"

• The speaker suggests giving an award related to "My Little Universe" but asks for suggestions from viewers.

• They ask if anyone is familiar with the game or if it's their first time seeing it.

• The speaker mentions that "My Little Universe" shares similarities with other hit games, particularly in terms of gameplay mechanics.

New Section

The speaker discusses similarities between "My Little Universe" and other games, highlighting its core gameplay loop.

Similarities with Other Games

• The speaker points out that "My Little Universe" follows a similar template seen in many successful games.

• They mention that it was the first game released by Golden Goblins, followed by other games using similar core gameplay mechanics.

• It is noted that different studios within Estoty use this core gameplay template but add unique elements to create successful games.

New Section

The speaker compares the progression systems of Estoty and HBY, highlighting their different approaches to core gameplay and progression.

Comparing Progression Systems

• The speaker explains that Estoty uses the same core gameplay with different progressions across their games.

• In contrast, HBY (presumably another company) uses different core gameplay mechanics from various studios but maintains a consistent progression system.

• They note that this difference in approach is interesting and worth exploring further.

New Section

The speaker describes "My Little Universe" as a pure arcade game without idle elements. They compare it to Dream Dale, which incorporates both arcade and idle gameplay mechanics.

Gameplay Mechanics of "My Little Universe"

• The speaker characterizes "My Little Universe" as a pure arcade game where players chop down trees and perform other actions without idle elements.

• They mention that resources are immediately used to purchase new items or land within the game.

• A comparison is made to Dream Dale, which also utilizes similar gameplay mechanics but includes additional elements related to idle progression.

Due to the length of the transcript, this summary covers only a portion of the content.

New Section

The speaker discusses their experience with mobile gaming and the benefits of contributing to it without cheating or using emulators.

Switching Games and Contributing to Mobile Gaming

• The speaker switched to another game after not making any in-app purchases (IAP).

• They mention that it's nice to finally contribute to mobile gaming.

• They suggest that by not cheating or playing on an emulator, players can turn off the internet and play without ads.

New Section

The speaker talks about adding a "rout hack" in a game and mentions their enjoyment of creating their own little universe within the game.

Adding a Hack and Creating a Personal Universe

• The speaker considers adding a "rout hack" that allows them to walk outright in the game.

• They express frustration towards players who choose to watch ads instead of using hacks.

• They mention that creating their own little universe within the game is enjoyable.

New Section

The speaker reflects on their journey to South Korea and discusses similarities between Squad Alpha and other games developed by the same studio.

Journey Reflections and Game Similarities

• The speaker recalls a 17-hour journey to South Korea followed by another 17-hour journey back.

• They mention Squad Alpha as being similar to Johnny Trigger, indicating that elements from Johnny Trigger were used in Squad Alpha.

• They note that Squad Alpha is different from other games like Archero or Survivor due to its hybrid nature.

New Section

The speaker discusses their initial hesitation in mentioning Squad Alpha as a hybrid game but acknowledges its strategic elements compared to Archer or Survivor.

Hybrid Nature of Squad Alpha

• The speaker recalls considering mentioning Squad Alpha as a hybrid game but hesitated due to its similarity to other games.

• They mention that Squad Alpha is more strategic than Archer or Survivor, as players can switch weapons and counter opponents' weapons.

• They compare Squad Alpha to Hitman, highlighting the ability to choose specific weapons for different situations.

New Section

The speaker further discusses the strategic aspects of Squad Alpha and shares their personal experience with playing stealthily.

Strategic Gameplay in Squad Alpha

• The speaker emphasizes that Squad Alpha is not purely casual but has a more core gameplay experience.

• They compare it to Hitman, where players can use stealth and specific weapons to take down enemies.

• The speaker shares their own attempts at playing stealthily but sometimes resorting to going "bananas" and engaging in all-out combat.

New Section

The speaker praises the studio's iteration and avoidance of direct copying in Squad Alpha, highlighting its success as a game.

Success and Iteration of Squad Alpha

• The speaker commends the studio for iterating on previous games like Johnny Trigger instead of directly copying them.

• They express satisfaction with how Squad Alpha turned out as a successful game.

• The speaker considers the release date of July 1st, 2021, as an important milestone for the game.

New Section

The speaker discusses other games released by the studio during different time periods and notes similarities in core gameplay elements.

Other Games Released by the Studio

• The speaker mentions other games released by the studio such as Dream Dale, My Perfect Hotel, and Fail Castle Takeover.

• They note that these games reused core gameplay elements from arcade-style games developed by different companies.

• Similarities include resource management, backpack systems, and UI progression.

New Section

The speaker explains why the studio reused core gameplay elements in their games and highlights the importance of day one retention and CPI.

Reusing Core Gameplay Elements

• The speaker suggests that the studio reused core gameplay elements because they know it works and has excellent key performance indicators (KPIs).

• They mention that day one retention is reflected in the core gameplay.

• The speaker alludes to a discussion on cost per install (CPI) and its relevance to the topic.

New Section

The speaker points out that three games in the studio's portfolio share similarities in arcade Survivor gameplay but have different visual themes.

Similarities and Differences in Games

• The speaker notes that three games in the studio's portfolio, despite having different visual themes, share around 90% similarity in arcade Survivor gameplay.

• They clarify that while graphics styles may vary, the core theme remains consistent across these games.

• The audience expresses interest in seeing data from Sensor Tower to understand when these strategies started being implemented.

New Section

The speaker shares insights from Sensor Tower data, highlighting recent activity related to game development strategies employed by Estoty.

Recent Developments and Strategy Implementation

• The speaker mentions that recent developments can be observed within the last 100 days based on Sensor Tower data.

• They suggest looking at graphs for Dream Dale and My Perfect Hotel to understand why this strategy is working well for Estoty.

• There is a mention of publisher accounts under Estoty and Estoty Vus UAB.

New Section

The discussion revolves around a game called "Fishing Something" developed by Multicast Gaming. The game had similarities to another game called "Fish Idol Fishing Tycoon," which later switched its theme to aliens versus scientists. The shift in theme resulted in a significant increase in popularity and success.

Fishing Game vs Alien Theme

• Multicast Gaming had a fishing game that was moderately successful but eventually died out.

• They then introduced an alien invasion theme in October 2022, which led to sudden scaling and success.

• The alien theme was more interesting and appealing to a larger audience compared to fishing.

• The potential reach of the alien theme, with its connection to popular franchises like Star Wars and Alien vs. Predator, contributed to its success.

New Section

This section focuses on the studio's attempt to create their own successful hybrid games without relying on publishers. They have tried three new themes with the same core gameplay mechanics, albeit with some progression changes.

Core Gameplay Mechanics and Themes

• The studio has created multiple games using the same core gameplay mechanics but different themes.

• One of their games, Idle Breaker, launched in April and has been the most successful so far.

• There are similarities in progression systems and shop mechanics across these games.

• Ads play a significant role in generating revenue for these games, with at least 50% of revenue coming from ads.

New Section

This section discusses the ad units used in the games and highlights differences between them. It also explores how ads are integrated into gameplay mechanics.

Ad Units and Integration

• The studio uses four different types of ad units: rewarded videos, interstitials, banners (not present in Western Game), and forced ads with countdown timers.

• The inclusion of rewarded videos and countdown timers is unique for hybrid casual games.

• The forced ads with countdown timers provide a reward in the form of gold, making them more appealing to players.

• The Western Game lacks certain features present in other games, indicating potential differences in revenue generation.

New Section

This section highlights the studio's approach of building a template for their games and explores similarities between different game themes.

Building a Template

• The studio seems to be following a template when creating their games, as evidenced by similarities across different themes.

• A comparison is made between the Mars Survivor game and the Martian movie, showcasing similarities in gameplay mechanics and progression systems.

• Certain features like conversion stations and resource management are consistent across these games.

• However, some variations exist between themes, such as the absence of increased movement speed in Western Game.

Timestamps have been associated with relevant bullet points.

New Section

The speaker discusses the concept of using templates in game development and the challenges with progression and intuitiveness in different games.

Template Games

• Templates are used to test different games with the same progression.

• The games discussed are similar but developed by different teams.

• The speaker argues that it's more like an AB test rather than a template.

• The games have similarities in terms of core gameplay and UI, but they introduce variations such as combat addition, idle hotel reset, and dungeons.

New Section

The speaker highlights issues with resource gathering and intuitiveness in the games compared to Dream Dale.

Resource Gathering

• One of the biggest issues is the lack of intuitiveness in resource gathering mechanics.

• It is not clear which resources to gather or how to obtain them.

• Examples include getting broken cans or wood from specific resources.

• Dream Dale has a more intuitive approach where chopping wood gives wood and fishing is straightforward.

New Section

The speaker emphasizes the importance of intuitiveness for players to understand what actions they need to take.

Intuitiveness

• It is crucial for players to immediately understand what actions they need to perform.

• Lack of clarity can lead to confusion and frustration for players.

• Suggestions include providing clear instructions when clicking on objects or having a subreddit for players to share information about resources and materials.

New Section

The speaker discusses challenges faced by game developers when starting their own user acquisition (UA) efforts and suggests having a well-planned UA strategy.

Challenges in UA

• Starting UA efforts without prior experience can be challenging for game developers.

• Mistakes may be made based on limited knowledge, leading to suboptimal decisions.

• The speaker mentions the importance of different types of campaigns, data analysis for LTV and retention, and acquiring users from various channels.

• It is unclear if the developers have a clear plan for UA or are solely focused on CPI metrics.

New Section

The speaker reflects on the difficulties of soft launching hybrid casual games and discusses possible approaches to UA.

Soft Launching Hybrid Casual Games

• Soft launching hybrid casual games presents unique challenges.

• There is uncertainty about how to efficiently approach user acquisition for these types of games.

• Suggestions include testing and iterating early parts of the game, utilizing different channels like Facebook and Google, and gathering enough data to analyze LTV and retention curves.

The transcript provided does not contain timestamps for all sections.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of focusing on user acquisition (UA) and optimizing campaigns for hyper casual games.

Focusing on User Acquisition

• The speaker mentions a popular escape game called "Bare Bones" that is still growing in popularity compared to other hyper casual games.

• It is suggested that the developers of Bare Bones are currently focused on getting organic downloads and may not be running any UA campaigns yet.

• The speaker suggests that it could be beneficial for the developers to initially focus on launching the game in the US or conducting an open beta before expanding globally.

• It is important to measure retention and optimize campaigns as soon as possible, especially since Bare Bones has both in-app purchases (IAPs) and ads.

• The speaker emphasizes the need for a partner or team with expertise in UA, creatives, ad monetization, and analytics.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses why Bare Bones may not have started running UA campaigns yet and highlights the trend of hyper casual studios trying their luck without publishers.

Reasons for Not Running UA Campaigns Yet

• The speaker speculates that Bare Bones may not have started running UA campaigns because idle breaker games are just starting to gain traction.

• It is mentioned that Bare Bones has two separate LinkedIn accounts but it's unclear if they have different offices or if there's another reason behind it.

• The speaker points out that many hyper casual studios are now attempting to develop games without relying on publishers due to having their own products and resources.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses how hyper casual studios are venturing into self-publishing but questions whether they can succeed without publishers' expertise.

Self-Publishing and Publishers' Expertise

• The speaker highlights the trend of hyper casual studios trying to self-publish their games without relying on publishers.

• It is mentioned that while these studios may have excellent game mechanics and progressions, they may lack the expertise in UA and monetization that publishers provide.

• The speaker raises the question of whether hyper casual studios can successfully navigate self-publishing or if they will still need publishers for certain aspects.

New Section

In this section, the speaker discusses the million-dollar question of whether hyper casual studios can succeed without publishers and emphasizes the importance of data analytics and UA expertise.

Can Hyper Casual Studios Succeed Without Publishers?

• The speaker ponders whether hyper casual studios can achieve success without publishers due to their own UA teams or because of the quality of their games.

• It is acknowledged that only time will tell if these studios can thrive independently or if they will eventually seek out publishers again.

• The speaker suggests that taking risks with unscalable CPI (cost per install) could be part of a strategy for hyper casual studios to establish themselves without relying on publishers.

• It is noted that previously, hyper casual games were not released multiple times by the same studio, but now there seems to be a shift towards creating similar games with different themes.

New Section

In this section, the speaker expresses curiosity about whether hyper casual studios can sustain their self-publishing efforts and invites EST Villers to share insights.

Curiosity About Self-Publishing Success

• The speaker expresses interest in observing how hyper casual studios fare in their self-publishing endeavors.

• There is a mention of an invitation sent to EST Villers for a podcast interview to discuss their games and clarify any assumptions made during this discussion.

• The speaker plans to keep an eye on EST's games and conduct reviews if they achieve significant success without a publisher.

New Section

In this section, the speaker shares thoughts on the increasing number of hyper casual studios venturing into self-publishing and expresses hope for their success.

Hope for Self-Publishing Success

• The speaker acknowledges that smaller hyper casual studios are realizing they can create multiple games without relying on publishers.

• There is a mention of the speaker's dislike for a specific game and an invitation to the developers to respond to an email sent regarding a podcast interview.

• The speaker expresses excitement about following EST's journey and hopes that their self-publishing efforts prove successful, considering the caliber and size of the studio.

Leveraging Product Knowledge in Game Development

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of having product knowledge and expertise in game development.

Importance of Product Know-How

• The speaker emphasizes that leveraging product knowledge is crucial for building games effectively.

• They encourage listeners to join their slack community for interesting discussions and continuous learning.

• The speaker concludes with a cheerful note.

Conclusion and Farewell

The speaker wraps up the session and expresses gratitude for the support received.

Wrapping Up

• The session concludes with a musical outro.

• Applause can be heard as the session ends.

Please note that there were no timestamps provided for specific content within each section.