Introduction

The host greets the guest and starts the conversation.

• The host greets the guest.

• The guest talks about how he is constantly being messaged to come on podcasts.

• They discuss how one of their colleagues is more persistent than the other when it comes to business development.

Recent Activities

The guest talks about recent activities, including a trip to Shanghai and working on a project called "De Niro."

• The guest discusses his recent trip to Shanghai and working on a project called "De Niro."

• They talk about how stressful it was during the launch of another project called "Hidden Hand."

• The guest mentions that they are in a better position now with "De Niro" because it's more of an upgrade than something they need to do urgently.

Building in a Tough Market

The guest talks about building in a tough market and how some projects have failed due to over-dependence on token incentives.

• The past 12 months have been eye-opening for the guest as they've seen many projects fail due to over-dependence on token incentives.

• Despite facing headwinds, the guest feels lucky that their team has managed their resources well enough to keep going for at least a few more years even if everything were to stop working suddenly.

• They discuss how some projects just throw things out there without considering profitability, which can come back to bite them later.

Profitability Considerations

The guest talks about profitability considerations during the launch of their project.

• The host asks if there was any consideration for profitability during the launch of their project.

• The guest mentions that they were always serious about managing expenses and are in a better position now because of it.

Achieving Sustainability

In this section, the speaker discusses how their project has been profitable for the past five months and how they achieved sustainability as a DAO.

Profitability and Sustainability

• The project has been profitable for the past five months due to fees from the treasury, Hidden Hand, and Pyrex outweighing expenses.

• Hitman and Pyrex were innovative projects that did not have butterfly incentives behind them to see if people would use them. People did use them, which helped achieve sustainability as a DAO.

• Lessons were learned from V1 launch on how to be sustainable as a protocol. Incorporating things that the market cares about into day-to-day decisions can lead to sustainability.

Pivoting Away from Rebirths

In this section, the speaker talks about pivoting away from rebirths and maintaining relevancy in the space.

Moving Away From Rebirths

• The idea was always to pivot away from rebirths even before taking part in the auction.

• Looking back at it, being more on their toes could have helped with maintaining relevancy since people get tired of things quickly.

Maintaining Relevancy

• Ave is one of their favorite DeFi projects because they always manage to maintain relevancy by upgrading. They try to operate themselves in a similar cadence.

• They now try to let contributors know what upgrades they want to do without doing a roadmap since roadmaps are scams.

Trend Forecasting for Innovation

In this section, the speaker talks about trend forecasting for innovation and how they decide which new avenues to pursue.

Trend Forecasting

• They have a heavy research background and keep up with new shiny innovations happening in the space.

• They try to forecast which avenues will be popular and put their project in a prime position to go there.

The Thought Process Behind the Decision to Create a Stablecoin

In this section, the speaker discusses the thought process behind creating a stablecoin and how it fits into their overall strategy.

Creating a Glue for the Ecosystem

• The speaker explains that they had three uncorrelated but correlated things: Hidden Hand, Pyrex, and the treasury. They chose to create a glue for the entire ecosystem rather than continuing to expand beyond what they already have.

• By creating a decentralized stablecoin, they are in a state to pull in more faces to the DAO because they have built liquidity infrastructure that has made many projects very liquid.

• Being a stablecoin helps push all project interactions in the same path and makes it easier for people to understand what direction they're heading down.

Focusing on What Works

• Now that they have things that are working, it probably makes sense to piece it all together and do something that they know will work for them rather than trying to stay on top of trends and continue to distract themselves.

High-Level Overview of Denaro

In this section, the speaker provides some background information about Denaro and why they decided to create another stablecoin.

Solving the Stablecoin Problem

• The team spent a lot of time thinking about why people actually need another stablecoin. They wanted to solve the stablecoin problem beyond how it fits into their DAO strategically and from a liquidity standpoint.

• They wanted Denaro to be different from other stablecoins by being decentralized and community-driven.

Introduction to the Three-Part Module

In this section, the speaker introduces a three-part module that includes a stable coin called PXE and a redacted wheeler. The system works by building a reserve of ETH represented via PXE, which will be used for Native debt tied to PXE.

PXE Stable Coin

• The reserve of ETH represented via PXE will be used for Native debt tied to PXE.

• People can leverage their snake teeth positions of Pia seeds using dinero, the stable coin.

• There is high demand for creating a native solution for leveraging and farming with stable coins.

• Using relayer, people can use dinero for gas over ETH using RRPC and pay for transactions on any chain or L2.

Centralized Stable Coin Space

• CDPS have held up extremely well despite all that has happened in the past 12 to 18 months.

• USDC is an initial use case to scale.

Decentralized Clearinghouse

• A decentralized clearinghouse can be created as a private money market that lives between public CDPS and the protocol itself.

• It allows creating data down loans where Tapioca can mint De Niro redacted can mint USD 0, and Beacon Arab peg sort of.

Decentralized Cleaning House and USDC CDPs

In this section, the speaker discusses the decentralized cleaning house and USDC CDPs. They explain that only certain parties can mint USDC CDPs and why it is important to limit reliance on centralized stablecoins.

Limiting USDC CDP Minting

• The decentralized cleaning house will allow for a move away from UCC.

• Only certain parties can mint USDC CDPs.

• This limitation is in place to eliminate reliance on centralized stablecoins.

• Maker may never be able to eliminate their dependence on USDC due to complete migration being difficult.

Benefits of Limiting CDPS

• The protocol can close out any peg deviations as a treasury in an automated manner.

• By limiting CDPS only to us, the public can continue filling yield arbitrage by minting dinero against PXE.

• Closing out those CDPS will help swap out of the USDC.

Native Debt and Optimizing LTVs

In this section, the speaker discusses native debt and optimizing LTVs. They explain how they want to see demand before enabling narrow borrowing and how taking PXE into the CDP is important.

Enabling Narrow Borrowing

• Demand needs to be seen before enabling narrow borrowing.

• Executing licks against PXE should be avoided by taking PXE into the CDP instead.

• Native debt is important for taking PXE into the CDP.

Optimizing LTVs

• Unstaking PXE gets native ETH when a health factor gets too low.

• Liquidation occurs at 110 which is currently market standard.

Governance and PXE

In this section, the speakers discuss governance and PXE.

Governance

• The team is aiming for good governance.

• They are designing a relay that can be used by anyone without integration needed.

• The team wants to make sure that projects don't have to completely change the way their protocol works just to integrate it.

PXE

• PXE is variable depending on cooldown periods and how long it takes to redeem it for ETH.

• Getting EAT back into PXE based on people's health is also a factor in determining PXE value.

Liquidation Engineer

In this section, the speakers discuss liquidation engineering.

Designing Liquidation Engineer

• The team has designed a Dutch auction style liquidation engineer.

• It will be similar to B Protocol's Dutch auction.

MEV and Redacted Relay

In this section, the speakers discuss MEV and Redacted Relay.

MEV

• The speaker discusses how they plan to approach MEV.

• The team plans to attack MEV from an angle of providing Mev-proof solutions via LSD through Dinero.

Redacted Relay

• Redacted relay will receive some kind of premium flow if other projects integrate with it.

• The relay is designed to be used by anyone without integration needed.

Scaling Redacted Relay

In this section, the speakers discuss scaling Redacted Relay.

Availability and Liquidity

• The team wants to ensure constant availability on dexes and deep liquidity on other chains.

• They want to make sure that there's not a heavy lift for people to start integrating it.

Market Fit

• The team believes that market fit can be achieved by telling people that if they use LSD via Dinero, they can get Mev-proof solutions.

• This can power the tips that people are paying to get that Mev-proof user experience on Ethereum and all these other chains.

MEV Maximization

In this section, the speakers discuss MEV maximization.

MEV Maximization

• Some projects are completely focused on maximizing MEV.

• The speaker suggests jumping on the other side of the spectrum where there is a blue ocean of market fit.

Block Building Landscape

In this section, the speakers discuss block building landscape.

Block Building Landscape

• The team did not talk about it too much because some people were not familiar with it.

Building Blocks and Ethereum Magicians

In this section, the speakers discuss the goal of the protocol and how it can't be achieved overnight. They also talk about EIPs and how they help improve user experience.

Protocol Goals

• The goal for the protocol is to get into a state where people are using the daenery layer to route transactions into a bundle that validators can validate.

• This is not something that can be done overnight, so they don't put too much focus on it.

• The end goal is to have users and developers come together to see what they want to help improve their user experience.

EIPs

• There are many cool EIPs happening right now that help enable functionality.

• Regardless of VIPs, what matters more is if people want it or not.

• Users and developers come together through Ethereum magicians to see what they want to improve their user experience.

Liquidity Strategies on Dinero

In this section, the speakers discuss liquidity strategies on Dinero and how they plan to make it available everywhere.

Liquidity Strategies

• Dinero was there Day Zero on Bunny.

• Integrations with Hidden Hand in Firex show liquidity strategies.

• Basic infrastructure is needed for things like Ave integration and Lido's DAI integration.

• Other people are using Dinero's infrastructure for technical solutions.

Univ3 and Ruckus

• Univ3 will be there probably through Bunny/Timeless.

• Bunny/Timeless is good for stable coins and LSDs.

Liquidity Venues Overview

In this section, the speaker discusses various liquidity venues that will be launched eventually. They either have a significant holding in already or have the infrastructure to win.

Liquidity Venues

• Univ3 and Balancer are no-brainers.

• Velodrome and Arbitrum by Camelot will also be there.

• All of these liquidity venues that they will launch on eventually, they either have a significant holding in already or have the infrastructure to win.

LSD's Strategic Purpose

In this section, the speaker talks about how the strategic purpose behind pxe is different from all other LSDs. For them, it's to enable the narrow. They're building a stable coin before building an LSD.

End Goal for LSDs

• The end goal for lsds is not to become kind of the best LP token in so by that he means seeing pxe as a go-to and people just holding pxe as opposed to holding eighth in the wallet.

• The strategic purpose behind pxe is different than all other LSDs. For them, it's to enable the narrow. They're building a stable coin before building an LSD.

• How can we leverage pxe to do things like double liquidations or power the relayer and serve all of these unique utilities for the stablecoin to get where it needs to be?

Pairing on Curve Instead of WET

In this section, the speaker talks about how if facts eth becomes an alternative for pairing on curve instead of wet, they will do that because it only helps power De Niro. There's no point trying to go against major stakeholders and facts.

Pairing on Curve

• If facts eth becomes the alternative for pairing on curve instead of wet or something then so be it.

• There's no point trying to go against major stakeholders and facts.

Value Proposition for Dinero

In this section, the speaker discusses the value proposition around Dinero and how they are thinking about it.

Value Accrual

• The fees that are captured on liquidations and minting will go back to Butterfly or better RL butterfly holders.

• The yield that's captured for Polkadot is related to Dinero.

• There is no second token. It'll all go back to their whole butterfly just like it did with Hidden Hand and Pyrex.

Release Date

• The first release is PXE then the relay.

• Sending it for audit soon means weeks, not months or years.

• They hope to get it out to market this quarter.

Timeline for Liquidity

• There's no timeline for releasing the stable coin.

• Creating timelines around liquidity is smarter than creating timelines around dates because of arbitrary deadlines.

Outstanding Role at Butterfly Protocol

In this section, the speaker talks about an outstanding role that Butterfly Protocol is looking to fill and what kind of candidate they are looking for.

Business Developer/Growth Role

• The role is for a business developer or growth sort of role.

• They have just under 20 contributors right now to the protocol, and some people want to focus on different products.

• Anyone who wants to help lead that initiative can contribute and find a home in the Dow.

• Basic things include talking with different validators when they eventually expand the validator set out to different people, setting up liquidity venues, talking with Chainlink, etc.

Finding Mars and Staying Connected

In this section, the speakers discuss where to find information about Mars and how to stay connected with the community.

Where to Find Information About Mars

• A Dinero article about Mars is coming soon.

• The community is most active on Discord and Twitter.

• Links to Yat can be found at yat.slot or on Twitter at @redactichotel.

Staying Connected with the Community

• The community is most active on Discord and Twitter.

• Links to Yat can be found at yat.slot or on Twitter at @redactichotel.

Conclusion

In this section, the speakers wrap up their discussion and provide information about where to find additional resources.

Additional Resources

• Information discussed in the video will be included in the YouTube description and Spotify link.