Oz Podcast - #00480 - Water Resource Management and Sustainable Development with Mohsen Mortada

Introduction

In this section, the speaker welcomes everyone to the podcast and introduces the topic of sustainable water resource management.

Speaker Introduction

• The speaker welcomes everyone to the podcast.

• A special guest is introduced who is an international expert in water resources and infrastructure.

• The guest will share his experience and insights on sustainable water resource management.

Major Issues in Sustainable Water Resource Management

In this section, the speaker discusses major issues related to sustainable water resource management.

Sustainable Water Resource Management Issues

• How to sustainably manage water resources?

• What are the major issues that society is being confronted with?

• What are some solutions that are out there?

• Climate change and land use change impact on development that affects water resources.

Guest Background and Career Evolution

In this section, the guest shares his background and how he became a specialist in water resource management.

Guest Background

• Born in Syria, educated in the US.

• Studied artificial intelligence but ended up working for a municipality running their water system.

• Joined a consulting company after six years of working for a municipality.

• Moved around different cities such as Phoenix, Albuquerque, Toronto, and California while working as a consultant focusing on human elements in water management.

Course Overview

In this section, the speaker provides an overview of three courses related to environmental studies offered at Railroads University.

Environmental Studies Courses Offered at Railroads University

Undergraduate Course: Sustainable Development

• Provides a generic overview of ideas and concepts related to sustainable development.

Graduate Course: Environmental Accounting and Reporting

• Focuses on putting values on non-financial and financial factors related to environment reporting.

Graduate Course: Environmental Management Tools

• Focuses on technologies, tools, frameworks related to environmental management such as environmental management systems, life cycle assessment, and strategic environmental assessment.

Guest's Career Experience

In this section, the guest shares his experience working in water resource management.

Guest's Career Experience

• Worked for a municipality running their water system.

• Joined a consulting company after six years of working for a municipality.

• Moved around different cities while working as a consultant focusing on human elements in water management.

Background and Experience

In this section, the speaker talks about his background and experience in engineering and infrastructure projects.

Evolution into Water Management

• The speaker did not have a eureka moment that led him to become a water guy.

• He evolved into it due to living in a region where water is scarce and there are water wars going on.

• Visiting his father's cousin who ran the water utility in Damascus sparked an interest in the field.

Professional Experience

• The speaker has worked on various infrastructure projects, including developing a master plan for the city of Mecca's water and wastewater management system.

• He also designed a water network for one-third of Oman.

• In Toronto, he ran an engineering firm dealing with transportation, environment, and developed a water practice there.

• He moved to California to work on drought issues with the state of California and local utilities.

Developing Infrastructure Projects

In this section, the speaker discusses how he approaches large-scale infrastructure projects such as developing master plans for cities.

Surveying Infrastructure

• The first step is surveying existing infrastructure to determine its condition.

• Capacity modeling is then done to assess what needs to be improved or expanded.

Challenges Faced

• Developing a master plan for Mecca was challenging due to its population spiking from 1 million people to over 6 million during pilgrimage season.

• Cultural practices such as sacrificing lambs also had to be taken into account when designing the system.

Designing Infrastructure for Mecca

In this section, the speaker discusses the challenges of designing infrastructure in Mecca due to its historic significance and religious pilgrimage.

Challenges of Designing Infrastructure in Mecca

• The city's historic significance makes it difficult to dig up areas for infrastructure projects such as pipelines or wastewater treatment plants.

• Non-Muslims are not allowed to enter Mecca, so Muslim employees are required to work on infrastructure projects.

• Special permits are needed for employees from other countries to enter Mecca.

• To design infrastructure, an inventory of existing infrastructure is taken, scenario modeling is done, and then the infrastructure is designed accordingly.

Water Supply and Treatment

In this section, the speaker discusses water supply and treatment in relation to designing infrastructure.

Water Supply and Treatment

• Infrastructure design involves dealing with both water supply (for consumption purposes) and wastewater treatment.

• Treated sewage effluent (TSE) can be used for irrigation or recharged into an aquifer if rechargeable.

• Climate change has led to a global phenomenon of depleted aquifers.

Depletion of Aquifers in Saudi Arabia

In this section, the speaker discusses how Saudi Arabia's ancient aquifers were depleted due to growing wheat in the middle of the desert.

Depletion of Aquifers in Saudi Arabia

• In the 60s and 70s, Saudi Arabia encouraged growing wheat within the country using ancient aquifers that were pristine.

• This led to the depletion of the aquifer system in one geography of Saudi Arabia, resulting in a need for desalination.

• Desalination is energy-intensive and has an immense carbon footprint. Disposing of brine is also an environmental issue.

Water Supply in Southern California

In this section, the speaker discusses how water supply works in Southern California.

Water Supply in Southern California

• Southern California gets its water mainly from two sources: Colorado River and State Water Project.

• The state recently informed Southern California that they would only receive a 5% allocation from the State Water Project.

Lake Mead and Water Planning in California

In this section, the speaker discusses the impact of climate change on water levels in Lake Mead and how it affects energy generation. They also talk about water planning in California, including who is responsible for it and how it is financed.

Impact of Climate Change on Lake Mead

• Lake Mead's water level is at an all-time low due to climate change.

• If the lake level goes down too much, energy cannot be generated anymore.

• Climate change does not necessarily mean less water everywhere; some areas are experiencing floods while others are experiencing droughts.

Water Planning in California

• Water planning is done at the municipal and district levels, not by the state.

• There are 7 water districts and municipalities running systems in California.

• Some districts are more capable than others when dealing with a crisis like climate change.

• The planning is done on a local level, but the state has the ability to intervene if necessary.

Financing Water Operations

• Financing for water operations comes from both taxes and volumetric sales of water.

• The tax base is predictable, but volumetric sales can be challenging as utilities sell less water.

• Recycling wastewater to drinking standards (indirect or direct portable reuse) and desalination of seawater are becoming popular options for financing operations.

Allocation of Water Resources

• Allocating water resources between farming and human use continues to be an issue in California.

• 80% of the water goes to farming which contributes roughly 5% to the GDP of California.

Water Rights and Agriculture

In this section, the speaker discusses the challenges of renegotiating water rights agreements that were negotiated in the 1800s. He explains how some farmers have senior rights to water, making it difficult to take those rights away from them. The speaker also talks about how certain crops like grapes and almonds need a specific climate to grow in, while others like alfalfa and cattle can be moved to areas with more water.

Challenges of Renegotiating Water Rights Agreements

• Many water rights agreements were negotiated in the 1800s.

• Some farmers have senior rights to water, making it difficult to take those rights away from them.

• One district in California gets a large allocation of Colorado River water for agricultural use because the population is sparse.

• Certain crops like grapes and almonds need a specific climate to grow in, while others like alfalfa and cattle can be moved to areas with more water.

Fallowing Technique

• Some water utilities use a technique called fallowing where they pay farmers not to grow crops for a year or two.

• This technique is interesting but not sustainable.

Water Footprinting

In this section, the speaker talks about the concept of "water footprinting" which looks at the amount of water used in producing different products. He discusses how consumers are becoming more aware of their impact on water usage and suggests that having a dashboard showing the water footprint of products would be helpful.

Water Footprinting

• "Water footprinting" looks at the amount of water used in producing different products.

• Consumers are becoming more aware of their impact on water usage.

• Having a dashboard showing the water footprint of products would be helpful.

Grass and Water Usage

In this section, the speaker discusses how a significant amount of household water is used to maintain lawns. He suggests that outlawing grass could help reduce water usage during droughts.

Outlawing Grass

• Approximately 60% of household water is used to maintain lawns.

• Outlawing grass could help reduce water usage during droughts.

• Non-functional turf has been outlawed on commercial property but not on residential property.

• People are not abiding by the watering restrictions in place.

Water Challenges in Canada

In this section, the speaker discusses the issue of available water for all people, including First Nations, in Canada. The lack of access to clean water and sanitation is a governance issue rather than a technological one.

Pollution of Water Sources

• Despite having some of the most pristine water sources in the world, Canada has managed to pollute them.

• Mining and industry taking place on First Nations land pollutes water sources.

• 60% of First Nation inhabitants don't have access to clean water or sanitation.

Governance Issue

• Lack of access to clean water is not a technology issue but a governance issue.

• Providing funds without proper training or support will not solve the problem.

Renewable Energy Opportunities for First Nations

In this section, the speaker talks about renewable energy opportunities for First Nations communities in Canada. He highlights that there are ample opportunities to use renewable energy such as wind, solar and geothermal energy.

Renewable Energy Options

• There are ample opportunities to use renewable energy such as wind, solar and geothermal energy.

• A project in Ontario shows that renewable energy can be used to reach small communities with minimal impact on the environment.

Excuses Related to Energy

• Some companies use lack of access to energy as an excuse for using diesel fuel instead of exploring renewable options.

• Companies that do not report on their ESG policy will continue exploiting natural resources without regard for environmental impact.

Export of Fresh Water from Canada

The speaker discusses the issue of exporting fresh water from Canada and how it has become less talked about in recent years. They mention that there are strict monitoring systems in place to regulate the use of water resources, but as climate change and pollution continue to affect water availability, there may be conflicts over water allocation.

Water Resource Management

• The Great Lakes are shared between the US and Canada, with strict monitoring systems in place to regulate usage.

• International water treaties govern these waters, but during times of scarcity, respect for these treaties may decrease.

• As climate change and pollution affect water availability, there may be conflicts over water allocation.

Water Scarcity and Conflict

The speaker discusses how water scarcity can lead to conflict, citing examples from their native country Syria. They also mention potential flashpoints for future conflicts related to water scarcity.

Syria's Civil War

• Turkey built numerous dams on the Euphrates River which caused a decrease in available water for northern Syria's breadbasket region.

• As a result of this decreased availability and climate change affecting farmers' livelihoods, many left their farms for cities.

• This led to dissent among those who were affected by the lack of government response to the issue.

Potential Flashpoints

• Ethiopia's dam building on the Nile River could trigger conflict with Egypt and Sudan.

• Afghanistan/Pakistan/India have disputes over dams on rivers that could lead to conflict.

• Iran/Pakistan have disputes over dams that could lead to conflict.

• Boko Haram is trying to block water from Nigeria, which could lead to conflict.

Pollution of Rivers

The speaker discusses how rivers can be a major source of pollution and the importance of proper government management to prevent this.

Pollution

• Rivers are one of the biggest polluters of oceans due to plastic waste and garbage.

• Proper government management is necessary to prevent pollution and ensure sustainable use of water resources.

Background on Water Resource Management and AI

The speaker discusses the current state of water resource management and infrastructure development, as well as the role of AI in decision-making and data analysis.

Environmental Management Tools for Water Resource Management

• Decision support tools are used for addressing water resource management issues.

• There are many data points being collected, but they are not being used for proper decision making yet.

• Academic institutions should lead the way in using data to make better decisions.

Drought Management and Decision Support Systems

• A collaboration between eight different firms is working on a decision support system to deal with drought management.

• There is no clear connection between global ambitions like sustainable development goals and what's happening on the ground in most municipal water systems.

Water Equity at Municipal Level

• In North America, there is a dichotomy in the law regarding charging someone a rate and subsidizing someone else's rates.

• California has a law saying that water is a human right so everyone should have access to clean water, but many people cannot afford it because it has become such an expensive commodity.

• There is a big disconnect between sustainable development goal number six (water equity/access to water for people) and making this a reality on a municipal level until we have the right laws in place.

Water Sustainability and Governance

In this section, the speakers discuss the cost of water bills and the challenges faced by governments in ensuring sustainable access to clean water. They also touch on the issue of governance and how it affects water management policies.

Cost of Water Bills

• The cost of water bills varies depending on location, but it can be a significant amount of money on a monthly basis.

• Even with conservation efforts, some people still pay around $80 to $90 for their water bill.

Challenges Faced by Governments

• Governments may not be acting quickly enough to ensure sustainable access to clean water.

• One challenge is that there isn't a one-size-fits-all policy for addressing water management issues due to differences in geography and governance structures.

• Policies are often short-term and designed to win votes rather than make an impact.

Incorporating Indigenous Lens in Water Management

• There is a lack of inclusion of indigenous perspectives in water management policies, which could help view water as more sacred than just pumps and pipes.

• Some organizations like "Water for People" have brought clean drinking water to disadvantaged communities in nine countries, including indigenous communities in Latin America.

Water Management and Indigenous Communities

In this section, the speakers discuss how indigenous communities are involved in water management negotiations and how their cultural perspectives impact water resource management.

The Role of Indigenous Communities in Water Management Negotiations

• During the renegotiation of the Colorado River agreement, seven states, three nations, and Mexico Metropolitan insisted on having tribes at the table to negotiate.

• The Metropolitan CEO visited native tribes to learn about the value of water to their culture before negotiations.

• Tribes were given a seat at the table despite federal government claims that they only have a right to water but not a seat at the negotiation table.

Cultural Perspectives Impacting Water Resource Management

• Metropolitan is building a reservoir in Northern California and spent time with impacted tribes to ensure they have their blessing for construction.

• Design constraints based on cultural perspectives can impact water systems. For example, religious factors contributed to how water resources were managed in Mecca.

• Private capital influx into state-run infrastructure can be beneficial as long as it does not exploit water resources.

Designing Water Systems for Scarcity

In this section, the speakers discuss designing water systems for scarcity and how different regions approach managing scarce resources.

Managing Scarce Resources in Different Regions

• The Gulf area mainly relies on desalination due to economic means while countries like Levant lack sufficient water resources and economic means for desalination.

• As pipes cannot withstand less use or no use, systems will start collapsing as water becomes more scarce.

• The Roman aqueducts were designed to deal with fluctuating use drastically among seasons or demand.

Public-Private Partnerships for Water Systems

In this section, the speakers discuss public-private partnerships for developing water systems and considerations for communities.

Considerations for Public-Private Partnerships

• Communities may consider public-private partnerships due to delays from government investing and contracting.

• Private capital influx can be beneficial as long as water resources are not exploited.

First Nations Major Project Coalition

In this section, the speaker talks about the First Nations Major Project Coalition (FN MPC), which is a coalition of First Nations that deals with mainly P3 projects in native communities. The focus of FN MPC is on energy-related projects such as hydropower, water, and wastewater.

FN MPC

• The First Nations Major Project Coalition (FN MPC) is a coalition of First Nations that deals with mainly P3 projects in native communities.

• The focus of FN MPC is on energy-related projects such as hydropower, water, and wastewater.

Government Responsibility for Water Availability

In this section, the speaker discusses how providing proper water and sanitation to first nation communities is the responsibility of the government. Private financing should only be considered if it's guaranteed by the government.

Government Responsibility for Water Availability

• Providing proper water and sanitation to first nation communities is the responsibility of the government.

• Private financing should only be considered if it's guaranteed by the government.

Public-Private Partnership Route

In this section, the speaker discusses public-private partnerships (PPP). He raises concerns about how investors will make money off PPP investments and whether something like water becomes economically prohibitive for some people when it's treated as a commodity rather than a right.

Public-Private Partnership Route

• The speaker raises concerns about how investors will make money off PPP investments.

• Treating water as a commodity rather than a right raises concerns about whether it becomes economically prohibitive for some people.

• P3 financiers have to make anywhere from 5% to 18% interest on their investments.

• The recourse of not paying back a PPP loan determines the action taken by the financier.

• First Nations are very sensitive about water being a sacred resource that's not owned by anybody because it's nature and so I think that might pose a problem.

Defaulting on Loans

In this section, the speaker discusses what happens when an entity defaults on a PPP loan. He explains that if there is a default, then someone won't come pick up the wastewater treatment plant and take it elsewhere because that's not doable.

Defaulting on Loans

• If an entity defaults on a PPP loan, then someone won't come pick up the wastewater treatment plant and take it elsewhere because that's not doable.

• Water is considered a sacred resource by First Nations communities and should be financed by our government.

Middle East vs Canada

In this section, the speaker contrasts how water projects are handled in Canada versus the Middle East. He notes that in the Middle East, there is always government guarantee for desalination plants.

Middle East vs Canada

• In contrast to Canada, in the Middle East, there is always government guarantee for desalination plants.

Water Management and AI

In this section, the speaker discusses water management and the role of AI in it. He talks about the challenges faced in water management due to energy problems and population growth. The speaker also explains how AI can be used to improve water management.

Challenges in Water Management

• Water is produced 300 kilometers north of Riyadh and pumped, resulting in enormous water loss due to an energy problem.

• As energy becomes more scarce and population grows, current practices will become unsustainable.

Role of AI in Water Management

• Traditional modeling tools have limited intelligence built into them, but AI has a big role to play.

• Academia and think tanks can help push for the adoption of AI in water management.

• Private firms are developing technologies that measure water loss in a system using satellites and other methods.

• Integrating different systems such as snow cap data with these technologies can provide a comprehensive understanding of every drop of water that lands on a snow cap.

• Investment is needed for long-term gain potential, but finding sponsors willing to invest is challenging.

Predicting Future Water Scarcity

In this section, the speaker discusses predicting future water scarcity using AI. He talks about how fragmented the market currently is when it comes to predicting future water scarcity.

Predicting Future Water Scarcity

• Fragmented market with no single company doing it well.

Challenges of Data Collection and Monetization

The speaker discusses the challenges of collecting and utilizing data in the utility industry. They also touch on the trend of monetizing data and how it can be detrimental to long-term planning.

Challenges with Data Collection

• Utilities collect a lot of data but often don't know what to do with it.

• Linking collected data to long-term climate models is important for effective planning.

• Extrapolating data based on unknown scenarios is becoming increasingly difficult.

Monetization of Data

• Many companies try to monetize their data, but this may not always be beneficial for long-term planning.

• Rational choice theory doesn't always apply when it comes to decision making about resources.

• Behavioral economics can help us understand decision making and create policies that change behaviors.

Water Management Strategies

The speakers discuss water management strategies, including irrigation practices, evaporation mitigation, and local storage solutions.

Irrigation Practices

• In Southern Alberta, 76% to 80% of the Bow River is used for irrigation.

• California uses 80% of its water for agriculture.

Evaporation Mitigation

• Algae growth caused by solar panels on aqueduct systems can lead to treatment issues and clog up aqueducts.

• Modernizing existing systems is necessary but costly.

Local Storage Solutions

• Shade balls were experimented with in LA as a solution to evaporation, but their effectiveness and potential for plastic contamination is unknown.

• China's "sponge cities" and Molson Costco's reservoirs under parking lots are examples of local storage solutions.

Water Storage and Mitigation of Evaporation

The speaker discusses the use of balls in reservoirs to mitigate evaporation, sponge cities in China, and underground storage facilities to mitigate overland flooding.

Use of Balls in Reservoirs

• Balls were thrown into one of the reservoirs to act as shade and retain water from evaporation.

• The speaker suggests incorporating underground storage to mitigate evaporation which is the largest loss of water in large water bodies.

Sponge Cities in China

• New city infrastructure in China incorporates storage for stormwater instead of going underground.

• Costco is putting big bulkheads under parking lots to create large storage facilities that can mitigate overland flooding.

Underground Storage Facilities

• Underground storage facilities can be used to mitigate evaporation and minimize overland flooding.

• The speaker suggests incorporating this into infrastructure design.

Water Collection and Pollution Mitigation

The speaker discusses how everything designed by engineers creates runoff that goes straight into the ocean, taking pollution with it. They also discuss inflatable dams used by some utilities for collecting water during rainfall.

Runoff and Pollution

• Everything designed by engineers creates runoff that goes straight into the ocean, taking pollution with it.

• There hasn't been a mandate to design any rainfall storage reservoirs yet.

Inflatable Dams

• Some utilities are using inflatable dams during rainfall to collect water and allow it to go into the ground at its own speed until they don't have that anymore.

• A non-profit organization called Sustainable Conservation has a water recharge software that helps better design infrastructure for collecting rainwater.

Building Codes and Standards

The speaker discusses the lack of a mandate to design rainfall storage reservoirs and the fragmented nature of building codes. They also discuss an organization called Envision that provides certification for infrastructure similar to LEED.

Fragmented Building Codes

• There hasn't been a mandate to design any rainfall storage reservoirs yet.

• The problem with building codes or engineering codes is that they are so fragmented.

Envision Certification

• Envision provides certification similar to LEED for infrastructure, including water recycling.

• The speaker challenges all utilities to use Envision standards in designing their new infrastructure.

Future Problems

The speaker briefly mentions the pressing current problems and potential future problems related to land use pressures and climate change.

Pressing Current Problems

• There are pressing current problems related to land use pressures and climate change.

• No further details were provided.

Need for Change in Policies and Technology

In this section, the speaker discusses the need for change in policies and technology to address converging factors over the next 25 years.

Planning and Sustainable Design

• Planning needs to be updated to incorporate sustainable standards design.

• Urban design must change to be more friendly to the natural environment around us.

• Consumer behavior has to change to drive these trends.

Impact of Consumer Behavior

• Consumers have to be aware of what they're eating, drinking, and buying.

• Changes in consumer behavior will force infrastructure design in a certain way.

• Government has to take more responsibility in taking active measures to curb bad habits.

New Designs Informed by New Types of Thinking

• New designs need to be informed by new types of thinking such as water-friendly designs.

• Environmental professionals should provide guidance expertise and so forth.

Demystifying Environmental Problems

In this section, the speaker talks about how environmental problems can be addressed systematically by asking the right questions.

Addressing Serious Problems Systematically

• Although serious problems exist, they can hopefully be handled systematically.

• Asking the right questions is important when addressing environmental issues.

Thank You Note

• The speaker thanks Mohsin for joining them and sharing his insights on environmental issues.

Water Management in the Middle East

In this section, the speaker discusses water management in the Middle East and its unique challenges.

Water Constraints in the Middle East

• The Middle East has unique water constraints due to its geography and climate.

• The Hajj is one of the biggest pilgrimage sites in the world, which also faces water constraints.

• Sustainable approaches to water management are necessary for all of us.

Conclusion

• The speaker thanks everyone for attending and hopes that they gained insights on how to contribute to sustainable water management.