Introduction

Dr. Jordan Peterson introduces Dr. Miriam Grossman, a physician, author, and public speaker who has been vocal about the capture of her profession by ideologues leading to dangerous and experimental treatments on children.

Dr. Miriam Grossman's Background

• Dr. Grossman is a physician, author, and public speaker.

• She graduated with honors from Bryn Mawr College.

• She completed an internship in Pediatrics at Beth Israel Hospital in New York and a residency in Psychiatry through Cornell Medical College followed by a fellowship in Child and Adolescent psychiatry.

• Dr. Grossman is board certified in Psychiatry and in the sub-specialty of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry.

Concerns About Clinical Issues

Dr. Peterson asks Dr. Grossman about her concerns regarding clinical issues related to sex education.

Early Observations

• In the 2000s, while researching sex education for young people at UCLA, Dr. Grossman discovered an alarming degree of sexually transmitted infections and abortions among students.

• She was shocked to discover that kids were being taught about gender as something separate from sex - a psychological sex that could be at odds with their physical sex.

The Dangers of Gender Ideology

Dr. Peterson asks Dr. Grossman about the dangers of gender ideology.

Risks Associated with Gender Transitioning

• Kids are being led to believe that they can transition genders without paying a huge price.

• However, there are many risks associated with gender transitioning such as decreased bone density, increased probability of cancer, and complete loss of erotic sensation in the nipples.

• There is no evidence that there are any mental health benefits to gender transitioning.

• The trauma that families go through and the regret that emerges later in life when finding out about sterility or inability to breastfeed are also risks.

Conclusion

Dr. Peterson concludes the interview with Dr. Grossman.

Dr. Grossman's Work

• Dr. Grossman has written four books and her work has been translated into 11 languages.

• Her new book, "Lost in Translation: A Child Psychiatrist Guide Out of the Madness," is available for pre-order.

The Importance of Identity and Reality

In this section, Dr. Jordan Peterson discusses the importance of identity and reality, and how denying reality can have a destabilizing effect on young people.

The Danger of Divorcing Identity from Physical Reality

• Denying physical reality is dangerous.

• People want a stable identity and don't want to be confused about who they are.

• Pronoun legislation in Canada caused confusion among young women, leading to psychological epidemics.

The Fundamental Categories of Male and Female

• Male and female are fundamental perceptual categories that are as important as up or down, black or white, or light or dark.

• Excess choice produces anxiety rather than freedom because there's only a limited amount of information that you can deal with at any given moment.

Celebrating Confusion

• There's a celebration of being confused in the LGBTQ+ community.

• Including "questioning" as an identity is problematic because an identity should be more or less fixed.

Understanding Identity

In this section, Dr. Jordan Peterson talks about the importance of understanding what an identity does and how subjectivity based on feelings is not a good measurement for scientific purposes.

What Does an Identity Do?

• People don't understand what an identity does.

• Subjectivity based on feelings is not a good measurement for scientific purposes.

The Importance of Social Integration in Identity Formation

In this section, Dr. Peterson discusses the importance of social integration in identity formation and how identity is socially negotiated.

Identity Formation and Social Context

• Psychological, natural, and social environments are important for individuals to function well.

• Children have to integrate their ability to play in a social context to negotiate an identity even when playing games with friends.

• Identity itself is socially negotiated and must be nested socially at multiple levels of the social hierarchy for a functional identity.

Dangers of Subjective Identity

• Merely relying on what one feels as the basis for identity is unethical and impractical.

• An identity based solely on questioning leads to existential angst and hopelessness.

Trauma Experienced by Parents of Transgender Youth

This section focuses on the trauma experienced by parents whose children identify as transgender or non-binary.

Support Groups for Parents

• There are private Facebook groups and other support groups that parents attend anonymously after their children announce they are transgender or non-binary.

• Mental health professionals demonize parents who do not immediately affirm their child's gender identity without considering underlying issues such as trauma, autism, anxiety, etc.

Trauma Experienced by Parents

• Parents who question their child's gender identity are traumatized because mental health professionals immediately refer them to endocrinologists for hormone blockers or testosterone without addressing underlying issues.

• The American Psychological Association announced that there were no valid long-term studies of the psychological consequences of transitioning.

The Risks of Youthful Transition

In this section, the speaker discusses how youthful transition is not the best pathway to mental health and how psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, etc. have been saying otherwise.

Gender Transformation Studies

• Studies on gender transformation are limited due to prejudice in the research field.

• Youthful transition is not the best pathway to mental health despite what some professionals say.

Parental Pressure

• Parents are often pressured into allowing their children to undergo gender transition.

• Professionals put the decision at the feet of parents by asking if they would rather have a dead trans child or a live trans child.

• This is manipulative and ungrounded in clinical fact.

Lack of Evidence

• There is no evidence linking testosterone-induced mood improvement with gender transition.

• Boys transitioning to girls do not experience the same elevation in mood as girls transitioning to boys.

• Gender affirming care legislation compels medical professionals to lie about relative risks.

Impact on Families

In this section, the speaker talks about how families are impacted by gender dysphoria and how it's important to acknowledge their trauma and grief.

Underlying Psychopathology

• Gender dysphoria is an expression of underlying depression and anxiety psychopathology.

• Families are affected by every child that falls into gender ideology trap or pit.

Ripple Effect on People

• For every child that falls into gender ideology trap or pit, there are siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins who are also affected.

• It's important to see that it's not only kids who are casualties but also parents who have trauma and are grieving.

Online Support

• The speaker arranged an online support group for parents of ROGD kids.

• Rapid onset gender dysphoria is a psychogenic epidemic.

Acknowledging Trauma and Grief

In this section, a psychiatrist discusses the trauma and grief experienced by parents of transgender children. He acknowledges their ordeal and apologizes on behalf of his profession for not recognizing their trauma.

Recognizing Trauma and Grief

• The psychiatrist acknowledges the terrible ordeal that parents of transgender children are going through.

• He recognizes that they are experiencing genuine post-traumatic stress disorder due to ongoing trauma.

• The parents also experience grief from their losses, such as when their child undergoes surgery or hormone therapy.

• Many parents were crying during a Zoom call with the psychiatrist because they were grateful to hear a mental health professional acknowledge their trauma and grief.

Disenfranchised Grief

In this section, the psychiatrist discusses how the grief experienced by parents of transgender children is disenfranchised, making it more difficult to deal with and heal from.

Complicated Grief

• The grief experienced by these parents is disenfranchised because it is not acknowledged or recognized by society at large.

• This type of complicated grief is much more difficult to live with, deal with, and heal from than other types of grief.

The Struggles of Parents with Gender Dysphoric Children

In this section, the speaker talks about how parents of gender dysphoric children are often afraid to speak out due to fear of being identified and demonized. She also discusses how there is no consensus on how to take care of these kids.

Fear of Speaking Out

• Parents are terrified to be identified because they don't want to be recognized for their beliefs or have their child aware that they're speaking out.

• Parents often whisper when speaking about their struggles and fears in regards to their child's gender dysphoria.

• There is a culture where grieving over a child's gender dysphoria is seen as morally unacceptable and evidence that you're a bigot.

Lack of Consensus

• There is no consensus on how to take care of gender dysphoric children.

• An international debate is going on, but it's not being covered by mainstream media.

• Countries like Finland, Sweden, and England have made a 180-degree turn in regards to puberty blockers and testosterone treatments for children.

Accessing Puberty Blockers in the US

In this section, the speaker talks about how easy it is for children in the US to access puberty blockers compared to other countries. She also discusses Planned Parenthood's role in promoting gender euphoria among kids.

Easy Access

• Children can walk into clinics like Planned Parenthood and get puberty blockers after only half an hour.

• Minimal counseling is necessary before starting them on puberty blockers which can lead to hormone therapy and surgery.

Planned Parenthood's Role

• Planned Parenthood has been promoting gender euphoria among kids.

• They advertise the ease of access and low cost of puberty blockers.

Introduction

In this section, the speaker talks about the oppressive gender binary and how it affects children. She also discusses the lack of reaction to her demonstration on this topic.

• The speaker discusses the oppressive gender binary and how it affects children.

• She expresses disappointment in the lack of reaction to her demonstration on this topic.

Gender Issues

In this section, the speaker delves into the issue of gender both scientifically and historically. She asks for information about John Money and his work.

• The speaker delves into the issue of gender both scientifically and historically.

• She asks for information about John Money and his work.

Concerns About Suicide Rates

In this section, the speaker expresses concern over suicide rates among kids who are questioning or confused about their gender identity. She also highlights that parents are being affected by this ordeal as well.

• The speaker expresses concern over suicide rates among kids who are questioning or confused about their gender identity.

• She highlights that parents are being affected by this ordeal as well.

Parents' Struggles

In this section, the speaker talks about how parents struggle with their child's transition. She emphasizes that even parents who have gone through terrible things in their lives find this particular issue worse than all of them combined.

• The speaker talks about how parents struggle with their child's transition.

• She emphasizes that even parents who have gone through terrible things in their lives find this particular issue worse than all of them combined.

Building a Habit of Prayer

In this section, an advertisement is played for Hallow, a Christian prayer app.

• An advertisement is played for Hallow, a Christian prayer app.

Dismal Corner of Hell

In this section, the speaker talks about how terrible it is to have a child who has been pressured to transition. She also mentions that parents need to be proactive and educated on the issue.

• The speaker talks about how terrible it is to have a child who has been pressured to transition.

• She mentions that parents need to be proactive and educated on the issue.

Child Protection Services and Gender Ideology

In this section, the speakers discuss the devastating impact of Child Protection Services showing up on a family's doorstep, especially when they threaten to remove children from their parents. They also delve into the history of gender identity theory and its influence on society.

The Impact of Child Protection Services

• Families who have been striving to act in a decent and appropriate manner are devastated by Child Protection Services showing up on their doorstep.

• The threat of removing children from their families is traumatizing for both parents and children.

• Accusations of child abuse can cause grief and guilt for being accused by authorities.

• Members of the psychiatric, psychological, and counseling communities demonstrate cowardice in coming forward about gender ideology.

History of Gender Identity Theory

• John Money introduced the idea of gender identity in the 1950s, coining the term "gender identity."

• Money believed that gender identity was completely separate from biology and that it was unrelated to biology.

• According to Money, biological distinctions between males and females were limited to menstruating, gestating, and lactating.

• Gender stereotypes were put on children in the first two-and-a-half to three years of life according to Money.

John Money's Early Life and Career

This section discusses John Money's early life, his interest in sex assignment of hermaphrodites, and how his childhood experiences may have influenced his views on gender.

Childhood Experiences

• John Money grew up with an abusive alcoholic father who beat him and his mother.

• His childhood experiences influenced his image of masculinity as a monstrous individual.

• He wrote that the world might be better off if men were castrated or "gelded" at birth.

Interest in Sex Assignment

• John Money became an expert in cases where it was not clear what sex a baby was assigned at birth.

• His PhD thesis was on the issue of sex assignment of hermaphrodites.

Gender Dysphoria

• John Money had gender dysphoria and referred to his own genitals as "vile."

• He developed a theory that separated gender from biology, which gave him an easy out from identifying with masculinity.

Rationalization of Trans Identity

This section discusses how trans activists' insistence on the prevalence of trans identity is similar to Freudian rationalization.

Freudian Rationalization

• The insistence on the prevalence of trans identity is similar to Freudian rationalization.

• It is a way to justify a dramatic decision or event in one's life.

• John Money got involved in a famous case and opened the first clinic in the United States for hermaphrodites.

John Money's Experiment

In this section, we learn about John Money's theory that gender is a social construct and how he conducted an experiment to prove it.

The Reamer Family

• The Reamer family from Winnipeg had twin boys with phimosis.

• During circumcision, Bruce's penis was burnt beyond functionality.

• The Reamer family contacted Dr. Money for help.

John Money's Theory

• John Money believed that gender is not related to biology but rather a social construct.

• He suggested that Bruce could be raised as a girl if they removed his testicles and fashioned female genitalia.

• Dr. Money instructed the parents never to tell Bruce what happened and raise him as a girl.

Proof of Concept

• This experiment was Dr. Money's proof of concept for his theory.

• Bruce underwent surgery and was raised as Brenda, but the experiment ultimately failed.

The Story of David Reimer

This section discusses the story of David Reimer, who was raised as a girl after a botched circumcision and later revealed to be biologically male.

Dr. Money's Study

• David Reimer was raised as a girl after a botched circumcision.

• Dr. Money followed the twins every year and reported on his study that became famous.

• Dr. Money claimed that Brenda (David's female name in the study) was adjusting well and doing great with friends and school.

• Dr. Money's theory became doctrine, leading to many boys being castrated if they had ambiguous genitalia.

The Truth Revealed

• Decades later, it was revealed that David did not adjust well to being raised as a girl.

• John Money intimidated other scientists from publishing articles challenging his gender theory.

• In 1998, David revealed that he was actually male and blew the cover of the whole experiment.

David's Life

• After revealing his true identity, David went on to marry a woman and adopt three stepchildren while working as a janitor in a slaughterhouse.

The Story of David Reimer

This section discusses the childhood of David Reimer, who was raised as a girl after a botched circumcision. It also covers the sexual abuse he suffered at the hands of Dr. Money during visits to Johns Hopkins.

Childhood and Sexual Abuse

• David Reimer was a miserable child who was called "cave woman" by other kids due to his masculine gestures and interests.

• During yearly visits to Johns Hopkins with Dr. Money, the twins were sexually abused by him. He forced them to undress and mimic sexual intercourse while humiliating them.

• The boys refused to go back for further visits with Dr. Money, leading their parents to wonder why. Dr. McHugh closed down the clinic after studies showed that sex reassignment surgery did not benefit individuals emotionally or psychologically.

The Aftermath of John Money's Clinic

This section covers how Dr. McHugh closed down John Money's clinic after realizing that sex reassignment surgery did not benefit individuals emotionally or psychologically.

Closure of John Money's Clinic

• Dr. McHugh closed down John Money's clinic after studies showed that sex reassignment surgery did not benefit individuals emotionally or psychologically.

• By the time John Colapinto wrote "As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl," in 1999/2000, it had already become part of sex education, sociology, and psychology.

• In 1998, Kate Bornstein wrote "My Gender Workbook," which challenged society's gender binary system and encouraged young people to rebel against it.

The Gender Binary System

This section discusses the gender binary system and how it is oppressive.

Oppression of the Gender Binary System

• "My Gender Workbook" by Kate Bornstein, written in 1998, challenged society's gender binary system and encouraged young people to rebel against it.

• The book argues that the gender binary is false and oppressive, similar to racism and sexism.

• Teenagers find this idea enticing because they want to fight against something evil.

The Calamity of John Money's Experiment

In this section, the speakers discuss the disastrous consequences of John Money's experiment on gender identity.

David Reimer and John Money

• In 1998, not identifying as male or female was still considered a disorder.

• David Reimer, who was raised as a girl after a botched circumcision, eventually committed suicide.

• David's twin brother also died of an opiate overdose before him.

• If David's parents had known the truth about the experiment, they would have never allowed it to happen.

Catastrophic Failure

• The experiment could not have gone more catastrophically wrong than it did right.

• John Money falsified data and culminated in the death of two people and the perversion of an entire culture.

• Despite being exposed by a book in 2000, John Money never publicly acknowledged his mistakes.

Logos and Literacy Documentary Preview

This section provides a preview of Jordan Peterson's documentary on how biblical writings jumpstarted literacy across the world.

Importance of Singing in Christianity

• The pastor's home was the first school where every morning began with singing.

• The Christian faith is a singing religion where 80% of script memorization exists only because of what is sung.

Influence of Gutenberg Bible

• The Gutenberg Bible printed on Johann Gutenberg's press jumpstarted modern education, medicine, science, and civilization itself.

John Money's Legacy

In this section, the speakers discuss how John Money's research on gender identity became the gold standard for psychiatric and psychological professions.

Catastrophic Failure of John Money's Experiment

• The pathology of John Money's experiment wasn't revealed until 25 years later.

• Despite evidence to the contrary, medical transition is still considered the appropriate move by many in the psychiatric and counseling professions.

John Money's Theory and Gender

In this section, the speaker discusses John Money's theory on gender and biology. The speaker argues that with the amount of information available today from hard science, John Money's theory would not be published.

Biology and Gender

• The impact of chromosomes and hormones prenatally affects men and women differently.

• Every cell in our body is stamped male or female, which makes a difference in every system of the body.

• There are differences in the type of arrhythmias that a woman might get compared to a man.

• What constitutes sex is instantiated as part of identity at every single level of the hierarchies that people are embedded in biologically.

Socialization and Gender

In this section, the speaker discusses how social rules assigned to men and women are not arbitrary. Parents use cues from their child's behavior to govern their interactions with them.

Socialization

• Parents who establish a genuine relationship with their children use cues from their child's behavior to govern their interactions with them.

• Feminine girls tend to be treated by their parents as more feminine creatures while more masculine boys tend to be treated as such.

• Kids are being led to believe that they can deny biology by using powerful medications such as hormones without paying a huge price.

Risks Associated with Denying Biology

In this section, the speaker talks about how denying biology poses significant risks associated with taking powerful medications such as hormones.

Risks Associated with Denying Biology

• Risks associated with denying biology include a whole missing forearm, a penis that doesn't work, sterility, lowered voice, decreased bone density, increased probability of developing cancer.

• There is no evidence whatsoever that there's any mental health benefit to denying biology.

• Parents need to understand the risks associated with denying biology before their child comes home and says they are not their daughter but their son.

The Rise of Gender Dysphoria

In this section, the speaker discusses the rise of gender dysphoria and why it is important for parents to be aware of what is happening in schools.

The Rise of Gender Dysphoria

• Over the past 10 years, there has been an explosive growth in individuals seeking treatment for gender dysphoria.

• Rates of gender dysphoria were once so rare that there were no numbers available. However, now studies show that up to 20% of a high school class in an urban area may identify as non-binary.

• There is no long-term data on the effects of gender transition surgeries and regret over these surgeries may take up to eight to ten years to develop.

• People who regret their gender transition surgeries are not coming back to clinics or doctors because they cannot sue.

Fear-Mongering and Cancel Culture

In this section, the speaker discusses fear-mongering and cancel culture.

Fear-Mongering

• The charge of fear-mongering is often used against those who express concerns about gender dysphoria. However, there is no data to support that only a minority will suffer from these issues.

• Many psychiatrists and psychologists know that concerns about gender dysphoria are valid but refuse to speak out due to fear of backlash.

Cancel Culture

• People who express opinions that do not align with radical leftist ideology are often mobbed and excluded from society.

• The speaker has paid a heavy price for expressing her views on gender dysphoria, including being shunned and marginalized.

Standing Up for What You Believe In

In this section, the speaker discusses why she continues to stand up for her beliefs despite facing substantial opposition.

Personal History

• The speaker's parents were Holocaust survivors, which may have influenced her decision to continue standing up for what she believes in.

• Despite facing backlash and marginalization, the speaker continues to speak out about gender dysphoria because she believes it is important.

Standing Up for Truth and Protecting Young People

Dr. Grossman talks about her faith and how it motivates her to stand up for truth and protect young people from lies.

Faith and Protecting Young People

• Dr. Grossman is a person of deep faith who believes in eternal truths.

• She feels that part of her purpose is to stand up for truth and protect young people from lies.

Conclusion and Book Recommendations

Dr. Grossman concludes the interview by recommending her books and discussing the importance of supporting platforms like The Daily Wire Plus.

Book Recommendations

• Dr. Grossman recommends her book "You're Teaching My Children What?" (2009).

• She also mentions her upcoming book, "Lost in Translation: A Child Psychiatrist's Guide Out of the Madness."

• She appeared on Matt Walsh's documentary, "What is a Woman?"

Supporting Platforms

• Dr. Grossman thanks The Daily Wire Plus for facilitating the conversation.

• She expresses appreciation for everyone's time and attention.

• Dr. Peterson encourages viewers to continue listening to the conversation on The Daily Wire Plus platform.

Closing Thoughts

• Dr. Peterson expresses gratitude to Dr. Grossman for sharing stories that can help parents navigate difficult situations.

• He notes that other countries have adopted more sensible stances on certain issues, which he hopes will spread to other parts of the world.

• They sign off and encourage viewers to continue listening on The Daily Wire Plus platform.