Succeeding as an introvert, building zero-to-one, and PM’ing your career like a product | Deb Liu

Career Insights from Deb Liu

Introduction to Deb Liu's Career

• Deb Liu has held significant roles, including VP of Product at Facebook and CEO of Ancestry for the past three and a half years.

• She emphasizes the importance of having a clear career path rather than drifting from job to job.

• The discussion highlights the challenge introverts face in workplaces that favor self-promotion.

Key Career Decisions

• Liu believes that one of the most crucial career decisions is choosing a life partner who supports your ambitions.

• A balanced home life contributes significantly to professional success, akin to yin and yang.

Advice for Career Success

• When asked for advice on career advancement, Liu stresses the importance of continuous learning.

• She argues that being a lifelong learner allows individuals to adapt and excel beyond their current expertise.

Learning vs. Impact

• Liu discusses balancing learning with making an impact; excelling in what you know while also embracing new challenges is vital.

• She encourages taking jobs where you may not feel fully qualified as it fosters growth through learning.

Resilience and Adaptability

• Emphasizing resilience, she notes that adapting to various roles enhances one's skill set over time.

Introduction to WorkOS and Its Features

Overview of WorkOS

• WorkOS is introduced as a solution for adding enterprise features like SAML authentication and user provisioning to SaaS applications.

• The acquisition of Warrant, which offers a groundbreaking authorization system called Zanzibar, enhances WorkOS's capabilities for fast authorization checks at scale.

• WorkOS supports up to 1 million monthly active users for free, making it an attractive option for developers.

Transitioning into Product Management

Personal Journey into Tech

• The speaker shares their background in consulting before attending Stanford Business School and how they transitioned into tech through an internship at eBay.

• A chance encounter with Tim Wenzel led to a job opportunity at PayPal, despite the speaker initially not seeking employment in tech.

Learning on the Job

• During interviews, the speaker faked confidence by leveraging their experience as an avid user of products, leading them to secure a product management role.

• On the first day at PayPal, the VP of Product guided them through understanding their new role and encouraged them to pursue their ideas.

Key Takeaways from Early Experiences

Growth Through Curiosity

• The speaker emphasizes that they entered product management without mastery but with curiosity, which was crucial for their development.

• They learned about building products by focusing on customer needs rather than just personal preferences.

Importance of Passion in Product Management

• The phrase "fake it till you make it" is highlighted as a strategy during interviews; showing passion can compensate for lack of experience or knowledge.

• Candidates should focus on demonstrating enthusiasm for solving problems rather than merely wanting a product job.

Advice for Aspiring Product Managers

Emphasizing Problem-Solving

• It's essential to fall in love with the problem being solved rather than just the product itself; this mindset can lead to success in product management roles.

Conclusion: Leaning into Passion

Startup Success: Embracing Failure and Building Resilience

The Importance of Loving the Problem

• A key principle for startup founders is to "fall in love with the problem, not the solution," which is essential for product leadership.

Learning from Failure

• Successful individuals often experience failures; those who learn from adversity tend to thrive. They transform setbacks into opportunities for growth.

• Adversity builds resilience, akin to how trees grow strong by bending in the wind. Overcoming challenges leads to stronger capabilities over time.

Personal Experience with Failure

• The speaker shares a personal failure regarding a desired job at Facebook that was given to someone else, highlighting the importance of resilience and adaptability.

• Receiving feedback about not being suitable for a role was humbling but served as a reminder that one can still succeed by maximizing current opportunities.

Turning Challenges into Opportunities

• Instead of giving up on his dream job, he focused on excelling in his current position, demonstrating how raw materials can be transformed into success.

Building New Ventures within Established Companies

• The speaker discusses creating billion-dollar businesses like Facebook Marketplace and direct response ad products, emphasizing the rarity and difficulty of such achievements.

Building a Mobile Acquisition Engine

Initial Challenges and Opportunities

• The speaker discusses leveraging existing relationships with game companies to identify their needs, specifically the shift to mobile advertising.

• The company was primarily brand-oriented, focusing on brand ads rather than performance-based ads. They decided to create an ad product for the new mobile Facebook feed.

• Within 18 months, this initiative transformed into a billion-dollar business, highlighting the rapid growth potential in mobile advertising.

Iteration and Failure

• Emphasizes that innovation involves high failure rates; initial attempts often require significant iteration before achieving success.

• The speaker recounts testing multiple versions of the ads product over several months, facing near-failure situations along the way.

Balancing Innovation and Resources

• Discusses the importance of working without excessive scrutiny or resources during early stages of product development to foster creativity and iteration.

• Highlights that large companies often struggle with balancing support for innovative projects while avoiding micromanagement.

Leadership Insights

• Stresses patience as a crucial element in fostering an environment conducive to innovation within larger organizations.

• Mentions that successful new products typically have a 50% hit rate, encouraging resilience among project managers (PMs).

Career Development in Innovation

• Suggests that working on core products can provide valuable skills before venturing into more innovative roles within a company.

• Reflecting on personal experiences, the speaker notes how diverse roles contribute to skill development and adaptability in navigating corporate environments.

Risk vs. Reward in New Product Development

Career Growth and Intentionality in Product Management

The Importance of Taking Big Swings

• Emphasizes the significance of making impactful career decisions that can change the trajectory of one's professional path, such as increasing user engagement from 100,000 to 200,000.

• Highlights that while taking big swings can lead to significant achievements, they often come with failures; understanding these trade-offs is crucial for career development.

PMing Your Career Like a Product

• Draws parallels between product management strategies and personal career management, suggesting that individuals should treat their careers with the same intentionality as they do their products.

• Critiques many product managers for lacking a structured approach to their careers despite being skilled in managing products effectively. Encourages creating a "spec" for one’s career outlining milestones and success metrics.

The Need for Intentionality

• Discusses the tragic reality where many people lack clarity on their five-year goals when asked during coaching sessions. This lack of direction can hinder career growth.

• Shares a personal story about an accidental journey through various roles without clear intentions or plans, underscoring the importance of having agency in one’s career choices.

Navigating Career Transitions

• Describes transitioning into leadership roles unexpectedly at PayPal and how this experience shaped her understanding of qualifications versus opportunities.

• Reflects on maternity leave's impact on her career trajectory and how it led to exploring different roles within corporate strategy rather than returning directly to product management.

Lessons Learned from Accidental Paths

• Talks about creating new job roles within organizations based on interests rather than following a predefined path, illustrating organic growth in her career.

Career Planning and Intentionality

The Importance of Career Direction

• Discusses the process of evaluating multiple college offers, emphasizing the importance of making informed decisions about career paths.

• Encourages individuals to define what success looks like in five years and assess their current trajectory towards that goal.

• Reflects on the balance between having a plan versus following opportunities as they arise, questioning if intention is necessary when things are going well.

Hindsight Bias and Career Navigation

• Highlights the issue of hindsight bias, noting that while some succeed without a clear plan, many do not; emphasizes the value of setting a destination for one's career.

• Points out that job offers often come with tight deadlines, making prior planning crucial for decision-making.

• Suggests using long-term goals as a measuring stick for evaluating job opportunities to avoid pressure from immediate choices.

Mindfulness in Career Development

• Shares insights from meditation practices about maintaining direction without fixating on specific outcomes; encourages thinking about future aspirations broadly.

• Provides an example of someone who set a long-term goal (joining a Fortune 100 board), illustrating how breaking down steps can lead to achieving significant ambitions.

Strategic Thinking in Career Progression

• Discusses how strategic thinking—imagining ideal scenarios and working backward—can help in career planning and achieving desired roles.

• Emphasizes taking incremental steps toward larger goals rather than focusing solely on immediate next actions.

Navigating Introversion in Business

Challenges Faced by Introverts

The Importance of Self-Promotion in the Workplace

The Challenge of Visibility for Introverted Employees

• The speaker discusses a team member who is an excellent product manager but struggles with self-promotion, leading to questions about her contributions during promotions.

• Despite her skills, peers' perceptions hinder her recognition due to her inability to articulate her work effectively in meetings.

• The speaker emphasizes that leadership involves not just doing the work but also marketing it; introverts may find this particularly challenging.

Marketing Your Work

• The analogy of creating light bulbs without marketing them illustrates the need for visibility in one's contributions.

• Individuals must recognize they are their own best marketers and actively share their achievements to ensure they are acknowledged.

Creating Inclusive Workplaces

• The speaker shares strategies from past leadership experiences, such as anonymous voting on decisions to give everyone an equal voice.

• Encouraging all team members to express their opinions fosters inclusivity and ensures diverse perspectives are considered.

Developing Communication Skills

• It’s crucial for individuals, especially introverts, to learn how to speak up and present their ideas effectively, even if it feels uncomfortable initially.

• Recognizing that effective communication can significantly impact product success encourages individuals to develop this skill.

Reframing Self-Promotion

• A discussion with an ERG group highlights the importance of reframing self-reviews as educating managers about team accomplishments rather than self-promotion.

Self-Promotion vs. Sharing Knowledge

The Dilemma of Self-Promotion

• The speaker discusses the reluctance to self-promote, emphasizing that sharing knowledge should not be viewed as self-promotion.

• A conversation with a product manager (PM) reveals his hesitation to promote himself due to witnessing others who lack substance in their posts.

• The speaker challenges the PM's perception by asking why he categorizes himself with those lacking substance instead of recognizing his own value.

Understanding Substance in Sharing

• The PM expresses concern about being perceived as an "empty vessel" without meaningful contributions.

• The speaker believes many product managers have valuable insights but feel uncomfortable sharing them publicly.

Overcoming Hesitation to Share

• Many individuals fear posting on platforms like LinkedIn, worried about appearing insincere or seeking attention.

• The speaker reflects on their own journey of sharing useful lessons learned rather than seeking likes or validation.

Accountability and Encouragement

• A pivotal moment occurs when the speaker recalls a contract made with their manager, Bos, which included a commitment to write and publish monthly.

• Bos encourages the speaker to share knowledge, asserting they have much to teach others despite initial doubts about having enough content.

Building Confidence Through Community

• The accountability established through this commitment led the speaker to consistently produce content over time.

Growth as a Game of Inches

Overcoming Initial Hurdles

• The importance of external accountability, such as a manager or friend, in overcoming the initial reluctance to complete tasks. Once this hurdle is crossed, focus shifts to the quality and effort put into the work.

Insights on Popular Podcast Guests

• Acknowledgment of previous podcast guests Bos and Ami, highlighting Ami's episode as particularly popular due to her coaching wisdom, which resonates with listeners more than that of Bos, CTO of Meta.

Rethinking Growth Strategies

• Introduction to a different perspective on growth; it’s not about finding a single magic solution but rather understanding that growth is achieved incrementally over time.

Points of Growth

• Emphasis on "points of growth," where small improvements (1% at a time) can lead to significant overall progress. This approach contrasts with seeking immediate large-scale changes.

Importance of Small Changes

• Highlighting how minor adjustments can have substantial impacts. An example from Facebook illustrates that simply adding clear instructions (like “create an ad”) significantly improved user engagement and growth metrics.

Optimizing for Success

Iterative Improvement Process

• Discussion on working through lists of hypotheses in teams focused on growth. By prioritizing small changes and testing them iteratively, teams can discover what works effectively without overthinking strategies.

Learning from Failures

• Advocating for experimentation where not every idea needs to succeed. A higher volume of attempts increases learning opportunities and overall output efficiency.

Balancing Optimization with Big Bets

• Addressing the tension between continuous optimization versus making bold moves. While both are necessary for growth, consistent incremental improvements often yield significant results over time.

Creating a Culture Around Growth

Optimizing Core Products

• Describing how effective growth strategies build upon existing successful products by enhancing user experience through better interfaces and flows—making core functionalities more accessible.

Team Structure for Growth

30, 60, 90-Day Plan for Onboarding

Importance of a Structured Onboarding Plan

• The 30, 60, 90-day plan is effective for onboarding new employees and can be utilized by anyone joining a company, not just executives.

• The speaker created this plan based on personal experience when joining Ancestry after an extended period in previous roles. They aimed to learn how to onboard effectively.

Implementation of the Plan

• The core principle of the plan emphasizes listening and learning first before taking action. Understanding the environment is crucial to avoid mistakes.

• In the first 30 days, the speaker conducted a "listening tour," engaging with over 60 people to gather insights about challenges and wishes within the organization.

Building Relationships Through Listening

• Taking notes and summarizing feedback helps demonstrate that you value others' input. This practice fosters trust and communication within teams.

• New leaders should ask team members what they need help with immediately to build reciprocal relationships and show willingness to contribute.

Balancing Listening with Immediate Responsibilities

• It's essential to align your onboarding plan with your manager's expectations. Sharing your goals ensures everyone understands your approach.

• Propose dedicating a portion of your time (e.g., 20%) to listening while committing the rest (80%) to completing tasks. This balance allows for better understanding without neglecting responsibilities.

Phases of the Onboarding Process

• The onboarding process consists of three phases:

• First 30 days: Focus on learning.

• Next 30 days: Align on vision for future actions.

• Final 30 days: Execute plans based on gathered insights.

Trust-Building as a New Team Member

• Reflecting back what you've learned from others can enhance visibility in the organization and establish credibility as you begin executing plans.

• Building trust is critical; new team members must earn respect through consistent engagement rather than assuming authority immediately.

Navigating Team Dynamics

Contrarian Perspectives on Career and Relationships

Importance of Personal Relationships in Career Success

• The speaker emphasizes that the most crucial career decision is choosing a life partner, which is often overlooked by young people.

• A balanced home life significantly contributes to career success; disruptions in one area can negatively impact the other.

• The speaker encourages individuals to consider how their relationships will affect their careers, questioning if their partner will support or hinder them.

• Reflecting on long-term impacts, the speaker urges young people to think critically about their partners' influence on future career paths.

Wisdom for Young People

• The speaker humorously suggests creating a "guide for dating" based on personal experiences, despite limited dating history.

• A quote from Chuck Swindoll highlights resilience: "Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it," stressing the importance of perspective in overcoming challenges.

Embracing Failure and Building Resilience

• Successful individuals are characterized by resilience; they embrace failure as an opportunity rather than a setback.

• Coaching plays a vital role in helping individuals reframe failures as learning experiences rather than catastrophic events.

Transformative Power of Feedback

• The speaker shares personal struggles with receiving feedback, initially viewing it as negative but later recognizing its potential for growth.

• Leadership coaching has been instrumental in changing the perception of feedback from criticism to constructive guidance.

Relationship Dynamics and Personal Growth

Understanding Feedback and Personal Growth

The Importance of Self-Reflection

• Emphasizes the need to look beyond feedback and understand its underlying messages, suggesting a long-term commitment to personal change.

• Shares a personal experience with imposter syndrome, highlighting how coaching helped in recognizing that mistakes are normal and do not lead to failure.

Perfectionism vs. Adaptability

• Discusses perfectionism as a self-imposed curse, particularly detrimental for product leaders who must accept that errors are part of their role.

• Argues that adaptability is more valuable than striving for perfection, as it fosters resilience and growth.

Finding Coaching Support

Exploring Coaching Options

• Offers advice on finding coaches, noting the high cost of traditional coaching services and suggesting alternative support systems.

• Mentions participation in lean-in groups and coaching circles (e.g., YPO), which provide peer support and shared learning experiences.

The Value of Listening

• Highlights the significance of having an outlet for discussing challenges, emphasizing the importance of listening in resolving issues.

• References a book titled "Listen," which underscores the power of listening in parenting and problem-solving.

Recommended Books for Personal Development

Key Book Recommendations

• Recommends "Power: Who Has It and Why" by Jeffrey Pfeffer, focusing on understanding power dynamics.

• Suggests "The Conversation" by Dr. Livingston for its honest discussion about race in America.

• Advocates for Susan Cain's "Quiet," celebrating introversion and advocating for workplace adaptations to harness diverse communication styles.

Personal Interests: Media & Technology

Favorite Entertainment Choices

• Shares enjoyment of the show "Fallout," based on the video game, appreciating its quality despite common pitfalls in video game adaptations.

New Discoveries in Social Media

Insights on Facebook Marketplace and Personal Reflections

The Value of Real-Time News

• The speaker expresses appreciation for a platform that provides quick updates, stating it offers a glimpse into current events in just five minutes.

• They mention the importance of concise news summaries, particularly enjoying the format of "five headlines you probably missed."

Life Motto and Personal Philosophy

• When asked about a life motto, the speaker refers to Chuck Swindoll's philosophy, indicating its significance in their life and work.

Experiences with Facebook Marketplace

• The speaker shares their experience selling a minivan on Facebook Marketplace within four days, highlighting the effectiveness of the platform.

• They recount purchasing items for their daughter’s room at half price from someone moving away, showcasing the benefits of buying second-hand.

• The speaker discusses using Facebook Marketplace as an economical way to rent children's items, emphasizing sustainability by reselling once outgrown.

Engagement with Community and Feedback

• The speaker remains actively involved with Facebook Marketplace as an admin user, providing feedback to improve the service.

Connecting with Others

• They invite listeners to connect via Substack (debliu.substack), LinkedIn, or Threads to share thoughts on what resonated from the discussion.