Post-Metaphysical Theology & The Trinitarian Turn

Name: Post-Metaphysical Theology & The Trinitarian Turn
Uploaded: 2022-12-23T18:23:29.000Z
Duration: 3 h 36 min 58 s

Introduction

The hosts introduce the guest, Charles, and discuss the purpose of the episode.

Introducing Charles

Nick introduces Charles as a philosopher they have previously spoken with.

They discuss their excitement to continue their discussion on metaphysics with Charles.

Purpose of the Episode

The hosts express interest in hearing Charles' perspective on metaphysics and any challenges it may face.

They mention that even analytic philosophy has begun to recognize its presuppositions and wonder where metaphysics can go from here.

Understanding Metaphysics

Charles provides an overview of what metaphysics is and how it relates to theology and philosophy.

Definition of Metaphysics

Charles defines metaphysics as a way to approach all questions in philosophy.

He explains that theology asks questions about God while philosophy asks questions about the world.

History of Metaphysics

Charles traces the origins of metaphysics back to Aristotle's book "Metaphysics," which was published after his book on physics.

He notes that for post-metaphysical thinkers, metaphysics is ultimately a way to do philosophy rather than a set of questions or a system.

Relationship Between Theology and Philosophy

Charles explains that there isn't a big divide between theology and philosophy in terms of method or fundamental questions being asked. The division tends to be the object being explored.

Metaphysics and Ultimate Reality

In this section, the speakers discuss metaphysics and its relationship to physics. They explore the concepts of causation, substance, and being in terms of categories of being. The goal of metaphysics is to understand what holds the physical order together.

Metaphysics and Physics

Physics explores causal relationships between things in the world.

Metaphysics takes what we see in physics and applies it to some ultimate reality.

The question becomes: What is reality? For Aristotle, reality equates with existence.

Modern thinking tends to reduce reality to physical things and ideas or concepts.

Categories of Being

Causal relationships require something to cause them. Metaphysics asks where the chain of causation ends.

Existence is actuality; therefore, reality is what exists.

Aristotle's metaphysical question explores categories such as presence, causality, substance, and actuality.

Absolute reality becomes pure actuality - a being without any diminutive or absences.

First Philosophy

First philosophy is the fundamental question upon which all other questions live off of.

It identifies quabbing or being itself as the foundation for all other questions.

All things picked up in physics are posited to this being in itself - God according to Christian theology.

Pre-modern vs Modern Thought

This section discusses how pre-modern thought explored objects present to the subject through metaphysical questions while modernity posits that the subject is more closely identified with being.

Pre-modern Thought

Pre-modern thought explored objects present to the subject through metaphysical questions about categories and causality.

Modern Thought

Modernity posits that the subject is more closely identified with being.

Instead of exploring objects present to the subject, modernity imposes modern categories onto pre-modern thought.

The Modern Turn to Subjectivity

In this section, the speakers discuss how the question of being is explored through the substance of things in modern thought. They explain how substance is replaced by subjectivity and how metaphysics proceeds in modernity.

Substance Replaced by Subjectivity

In modern thought, you no longer look at objects and figure out their substance. Instead, you do an inner perspective to them - the thinker itself - and posit that subjectivity on Ultimate Reality.

Descartes turned to the eye, and Kant brought everything into the way we form our experiences into concepts.

Descartes replaced ontology or metaphysics as first philosophy with epistemology. The question became "how do we know?" instead of "what is there?"

Hegel's Idealism

Subjectivity drives the world according to Hegel's idealism.

History happens as a culmination of all these cultural institutions of language, communal practices we end up participating in but it's still subjective.

The subject is something bigger than either the thinker or the object being a thought; it's what drives that relationship.

Idealists' Attempt to Resolve Tension

Kant says knowledge comes from sensible intuitions and understanding by categories or concepts. He goes on deposit then that categories are projected by this rational activity onto the world to make sense out of it.

The issue is you can't have any sensible intuition of that transcendental Unity of that perception because it's buried behind sensible intuitions in uh the activity of the rational subject so idealists are trying to figure out how to resolve that tension.

The subject as a being is playing itself out both in the subject and object of the epistemological relationship.

Hegel, Nietzsche, and Heidegger

In this section, the speakers discuss the ideas of Hegel, Nietzsche, and Heidegger. They explore how modernity has replaced God or the unmoved mover with subjectivity and how this has led to a projection of human subjectivity onto metaphysical reality.

Pure Act and Transcendental Spirit

Aristotle's "pure act" and Hegel's "Spirit" have different connotations than what is meant by "pure act" in contemporary philosophy.

The transcendental spirit is not something that humans experience but rather history in both objects that comprise our world and our thoughts on those objects are the activity of a transcendental spirit.

Nietzsche's Critique of Metaphysics

Modernity has replaced God or the unmoved mover with subjectivity.

This has led to a projection of human subjectivity onto metaphysical reality.

Nietzsche sees this as an assertion of humanity's innate drive to exert power over the objects of our intuition.

According to Heidegger, Nietzsche pronounces the end of metaphysics but never moves beyond it.

Mistakes in Metaphysics

Metaphysics as an approach to philosophy has made three mistakes:

It identifies ultimate reality with substance or subjectivity.

It does not study being itself but rather beings such as tableness or goodness.

It forgets to ask what is the meaning of being or what does "is" mean in questions about ultimate reality.

Theology Without Theology

Theologians are studying themselves when they replace God with human subjectivity projected onto metaphysical reality.

Metaphysics takes priority over presence which is typically defined as substance or subjectivity.

The bigger truth is something that lies behind what is visibly present.

Approaches to Philosophy

In this section, the speaker discusses different approaches to philosophy and how they differ from each other.

Studying Reason vs. Studying History

Kant's approach to philosophy is studying reason itself instead of what you're looking at.

For Hegel, it's studying what's driving history.

For Aquinas, it's studying what moves causality.

Abstraction vs. Phenomenology

Pre-modern thought focuses on abstraction as primary.

Heidegger wants to undo all those categories and focus on concrete particular phenomena.

Instead of a Kantian dualism between what we can do and how things appear to us and the actual reality behind those things, phenomenology studies the things themselves.

Substance vs. Relation

In pre-modern thought, substance is replaced by relation as the primary category.

External relation studies how something exists alongside other things.

Cult relation studies how those relations actually constitute the thing that you're studying.

Presence vs. Becoming

Presence isn't the final say; there's always an absence in the presence of something.

The absence is the possibilities of becoming that aren't immediately present in front of you.

Something is never just sitting there with an identity; it's always becoming more than what it shows itself to be.

Aristotle vs. Heidegger

Aristotle defines everything by actuality; potentiality is just a yet not yet realized actuality.

Teleological focus comes from Aristotle's causation matched directly onto his understanding of reality.

Heidegger focuses on concrete particular phenomena rather than abstraction or teleology.

Possibilities of Being

In this section, the speaker discusses how being is more elusive than a predictable causal relationship. He uses the example of an acorn in a tree to illustrate this point.

The Elusiveness of Being

Being is more elusive than a predictable causal relationship.

The speaker gives an example of an acorn in a tree to illustrate this point.

Plato's Cave and the Question of Being

In this section, the speaker talks about Plato's Cave and how it relates to the question of being. He explains that philosophy should ask what's laying behind objects rather than just studying objects themselves.

Philosophy's Question

Philosophy should ask what's laying behind objects rather than just studying objects themselves.

The speaker explains that we need to study what is projected on the wall instead of just looking at forms on the wall.

We can only interpret being itself by asking what's the meaning of being.

Implications for Philosophy

In this section, the speaker discusses some implications for philosophy based on Heidegger's ideas.

New Approach to Philosophy

A new approach to philosophy through phenomenology gives rise to concrete particular relation becoming absence.

Categories such as difference, ontological difference, and becoming are more important than universal ultimate reality or substance.

Phenomenological Reduction

Heidegger's phenomenological reduction rejects substance, subject, and God as the only place that being shows itself.

What distinguishes between being itself and beings is ontological difference.

Conclusion

In this section, the speaker concludes by summarizing Heidegger's ideas on being.

Summary of Ideas

The speaker summarizes Heidegger's ideas on being and ontotheology.

Kant's Critique of Metaphysics and Post-Metaphysical Theology

In this section, the speaker discusses Kant's critique of metaphysics and the three ways in which the existence of God has been tried to be proved. The speaker also talks about Heidegger's concept of being and how it sets the stage for post-metaphysical theology.

Kant's Critique of Metaphysics

Kant critiques metaphysics for its inability to prove the existence of God.

Kant identifies three ways in which the existence of God has been tried to be proved - ontotheology, cosmoteology, and physical theology.

Aquinas critiques ontotheology because it brings God into reason and does violence to the essence of God.

Heidegger's Concept of Being

Heidegger argues that being itself can't be substance, subject or God.

Heidegger gives a conceptual vocabulary and rigorous philosophical analysis of metaphysics as an approach to philosophy.

Heidegger proposes phenomenology as an alternative route beyond metaphysics.

Post-Metaphysical Theology

Moving beyond metaphysics is not denying reality or the existence of God but finding a better way to do theology.

Post-metaphysical theology involves interpreting meanings rather than defining being.

Phenomenological theology is one way post-metaphysical theologians interpret being.

Marion's Phenomenological Reduction

In this section, the speaker discusses Marion's phenomenological reduction of categories placed on God. The basis of theology is givenness, and whatever way God shows himself is where theology begins.

Identifying God without Being

Marion posits a God that's without being.

The ground that holds the shadows is what we say is God.

The Basis of Theology

Whatever God means because you can't say "is" because it is then defines and then you predicate and then you're back in metaphysics.

Whatever however God shows himself is where theology begins.

The basis of theology is givenness; it's a gift from God.

Trinitarian Theology in Marion System

In this section, the speaker talks about how relation becomes key or difference in trinitarian theology. Love becomes the fundamental category or concept to place on God when defining him in Marion system.

Father and Son Relationship

Much of the same kind of categories that are at play in higher shall appear so relation becomes key or difference.

Difference though is between Father and Son so God brings himself forth in Jesus as a being through the relationship between Father and Son.

Defining Love

When you go to define God, love becomes the fundamental category or concept to place on him in Marion system.

You only get to what "God is love" means through the reduction of givenness so givenness defines love.

Hellenization Problem with Christianity

In this section, the speaker discusses how hellenization has become a big theme especially for later trinitarian terms. He also talks about how theologians try to guard against neoplatonic thought by going back before Augustine to the cappadocians and working from them.

Moving from Substance to Subject

The move is typically to go back before Augustine to the cappadocians and work from them.

The whole post-medical business is not saying you can never read anything from the West again.

Heidegger in being in time essentially analyzes Plato and Aristotle, then moves to Kant and Descartes.

Theologians eventually say that Aquinas was neoplatonic, drawing on pseudo dionysius and boethius, among other Church Fathers.

Cappadocian Fathers

Even the cappadocian fathers are influenced by this platonic kind of tradition to some degree.

The Role of Relation in Postmodern Physical Theology

In this section, the speakers discuss the importance of relation over substance in postmodern physical theology. They also touch on Luther's rejection of Aristotelian metaphysics and how it relates to this idea.

Relation as a Key Category

Relation is prioritized over substance in postmodern physical theology.

Luther rejected Aristotelian metaphysics and said that the cross cannot be understood within that system.

The Creeds use Greek metaphysics, but there may be theological meanings behind those terms.

Trinitarian Turn

Bart's trinitarian turn sought to avoid a metaphysics of substance by focusing on God's relationality.

Territory theologians argue that one must start with the Trinity when defining God, rather than starting with a singular definition and moving towards the Trinity.

Bart starts his first volume of dogmatics with the Trinity, which sets the tone for his work.

Doctrine of Election

Election becomes an event in which God defines himself through his relationships by designating the Son as being for humanity.

The Trinity and Post-Metaphysical Theology

In this section, the speakers discuss the influence of Barth and other theologians on the concept of the Trinity in post-metaphysical theology.

Influential Thinkers in Trinitarian Term

Other influential thinkers at the beginning of the trinitarian term are Colorado who's a Catholic and Vladimir lawsky who's Eastern Orthodox.

Runners Runner and Bart influenced German theology after them.

Martin around her influenced the whole stream that it's hard to say well Bart this came from Bart this didn't.

Thinking About God Trinitarianly

A group of theologians are trying to think about God trinitarianly not metaphysically.

Post mechanical theology is there is no system that governs it isn't like it was where you have it just doing the hermeneutical interpretation well it's that if you imposed a system like aristocino logic it becomes predictive and then loses the mystery of God.

Understanding Younger's Trinity

If you start with younger girls Trinity um it has a sort of uh cappadocian procession in it so father is beyond being a nothingness so father has no actuality father's pure possibility foreign that doesn't mean that God is undefined Revelation is event in which father receives definition from his relationship to Jesus as person so father identifies with Jesus and that becomes meaning of theological attributes or he'd probably say Perfections what means though is that father always Beyond definition which means that God always bigger than definitions even the definitions revealed and in Revelation Revelations but they're we can't ever box them up into that system.

The Mystery of God

Every thinker has their own system and that's point of what's going on post mechanical theology is it's um there is no system that governs it isn't like it was where you have it just doing the hermeneutical interpretation well it's that if you imposed a system like aristocino logic it becomes predictive and then loses the mystery of God.

Revelations are not information about God they are movements in the becoming of God.

The Trinitarian Relationship and God's Being

In this section, the speaker discusses how God enters into the actuality of reality with Jesus through the trinitarian relationship. He explains that there is no pre-incarnate son in Yango, and that Jesus is not something other than the Son of God.

Incarnation and Historical Definition

The events of Jesus's life are now Divine attributes.

Death on the cross can be considered a Divine attribute because it is an event in God's becoming, not a definition of His being.

These events are moments where God comes into being from Beyond through the trinitarian relationship.

Transcendence and Society

For Yango, God's transcendence lies in his uniqueness as always Beyond being.

The trinitarian nature does not fit within the unification that all beings share.

Through Jesus, God reveals himself as hidden in his light.

On the cross, God is so present that one is blinded by the light of His glory.

Influence on Contemporary Theology

In this section, the speaker talks about how these ideas have influenced contemporary theology. He mentions Christoph Schwöbel and his work with Colin Gunton, Robert Jensen, Alan Torrance, Doug Pharaoh, Steve Holmes and Oliver Crisp.

Research Institute for Systematic Theology

Christoph Schwöbel founded a group called "The Research Institute for Systematic Theology" at King's College London in the late 1980s.

The group included theologians such as Colin Gunton, Robert Jensen, Alan Torrance, Doug Pharaoh, Steve Holmes and Oliver Crisp.

These theologians were influenced by the ideas discussed in this lecture series.

Radical Orthodoxy and Research Institute for Systematic Theology

This section discusses the differences between Radical Orthodoxy and Research Institute for Systematic Theology. Radical Orthodoxy emphasizes a critique of modernity through a return to metaphysics, while Research Institute for Systematic Theology focuses on dogmatic exploration with the Trinity placed at the front.

Differences between Radical Orthodoxy and Research Institute for Systematic Theology

Radical Orthodoxy tries to return to some metaphysics through a critique of modernity, emphasizing an attorney Eternity relationship.

Research Institute for Systematic Theology wants to return to dogmatic exploration of theology with the Trinity placed at the front.

Radical Orthodoxy tells narratives about what went wrong in modernity, while Research Institute for Systematic Theology focuses on systematic theology only beginning with the Trinity.

Research Institute for Systematic Theology draws heavily on the Cappadocians and is critical of Augustine.

Attributes of God

This section discusses how Radical Orthodoxy emphasizes personal attributes of God that flow from relations within the Trinity.

Personal Attributes of God

Radical Orthodoxy emphasizes personal attributes of God that flow from relations within the Trinity.

They emphasize that God is righteous because of how the Father relates to the Son in a particular way in the Spirit.

Barth does away with term attribute and uses perfection instead.

Role of Scripture and Language

This section discusses debates on scripture's role in theology, as well as language's importance due to its relation to the fundamental category of relation.

Role of Scripture and Language

Debates on the role of scripture in theology and language's importance due to its relation to the fundamental category of relation.

Placing relation as the fundamental category means that language maps onto this category well.

Language is a common sharing of an institution that is an outgrowth of relationships.

The Highly Active Movement and Trinitarian Theology

In this section, the speaker discusses the Highly Active Movement in the 90s and its influence on trinitarian theology. They also explore Christoph Schwöbel's conception of language and being.

The Highly Active Movement

The Highly Active Movement was active in the 90s.

They found the International Journal of Systematic Theology which is still operating today.

They produced some influential thinkers such as Colin Gunton, John Webster, and Christoph Schwöbel.

Many of these thinkers passed away early in life.

Trinitarian Theology and Language

Trinitarian theology is still going on despite the movement starting to fall apart in the early 2000s.

Christoph Schwöbel argues from a Lutheran perspective that all of being is constituted through a speech act by God.

God's word is what unlocks meaning and drives being, including whatever definable qualities of God exist.

The truth about the meaning of being is found in correspondence between statements expressing it with meaning vested into being by God's word.

Schwöbel identifies the Trinity not as a substance or subject but as conversation rooted in God's economic conversation with creation.

Scripture and Revelation

Scripture points to Revelation which is Christ who is the logos (the word).

The move against substance metaphysics is a move towards scripture towards revelation.

The Role of Scripture in Post-Metaphysical Theology

In this section, the speakers discuss the tendency in Evangelical circles to make scripture the text of scripture the action and how it flows from a substance metaphysics way of thinking. They also talk about how post-metaphysical theology is different and there is no information about God that lies behind his appearances in the world.

Making Words Themselves the Revelation

There is a tendency, especially in Evangelical circles, to make scripture the text of scripture the action.

This seems to be almost an Islamic or cultic temptation where words themselves become the revelation rather than Christ.

This flows from a substance metaphysics way of thinking where you have an undefined being that we're trying to figure out categories to place on.

Post-Metaphysical Theology

Post-metaphysical theology is different because there is no information about God that lies behind his appearances in the world.

In key moments, God gives himself definition. It's not God giving himself information; it's God defining himself in his becoming.

These key moments are recorded and reflected on in scripture.

Understanding Scripture as Story

In this section, they discuss how understanding scripture as story differs from Greek philosophy or indicative philosophy. They also talk about how post-metaphysical theology grabs key concepts from biblical stories.

Understanding Scripture as Story

The Bible is a story about events that happened in history.

A story has meaning that moves and builds and draws the reader into it.

Understanding scripture as story differs from Greek philosophy or indicative philosophy.

Post-Metaphysical Theology and Key Concepts

Post-metaphysical theology grabs key concepts from biblical stories.

For example, for Jungel, the key concept is God as the one coming to the world.

The Bible as an Interpretation of Being

In this section, the speaker discusses how the Bible is not just a description of events but an interpretation of the meaning of being as God breaks into history.

The Meaning of the Bible

The Bible is not less than a description of things that happened in the world.

It's an interpretation of the meaning of being as God breaks into history.

There are different traditions entering into this already from the beginning.

Today, there's also the entrance of Pentecostal new emergence into Pentecostal intellectuals.

Current Debates in Trinitarian Theology

This section covers current debates in trinitarian theology and what some theologians have said about them.

Christoph Schol and Trinitarian Thought

Christoph Schol has defined the trinitarian turn as a renaissance rather than a revolution.

Trinitarian thought was essentially a defense on the doctrine of Trinity until Bart came along.

In the 90s, debates included East versus West going cappadocians, role of spirit language meaning worship ecclesiology becomes big and those are and then how all this interacts with modern science becomes a big topic too.

Divine ontology has been worked out since then to understand who God is eternally and historically.

John Betts' Article on New Trinitarian Ontology

John Betts has published an article called "What's New in New Trinitarian Ontology" in Modern Theology.

He asks what's new here and has some remarks about the relationship between post-metaphysical and metaphysical theology.

Theological Questions

In this section, the speakers discuss various theological questions such as pneumatology, ecclesiology, and christology. They also mention Catherine Sonderegger's work on classical theism.

Pneumatology and Ecclesiology

Pneumatology is a huge question in theology.

Ecclesiology is a big debate in theology.

Some people accuse Bart and Train Theology of being too Christocentric that God's the Christ is the definition of God and that's what really matters.

Catherine Sonderegger's Work

Catherine Sonderegger posits intellectually rigorous enough to return to something metaphysical and pre-modern.

Her work gives theological categories two what is already desired in trying to get back behind modernity.

Modernity has uncovered something important, but it has also led to some problems in theology.

Tradition vs. Modernity

In this section, the speakers discuss their views on tradition versus modernity in theology.

Exposition on Hidden Assumptions of Pre-modern Thought

Modernity is not a mistake; it exposes some things that theology needs to deal with.

Theologians are not saying let's junk the tradition because they're turning back to the tradition but trying to work out some things that lead to problems of modernity.

Nietzsche and Breakdown of Outworking

Nietzsche comes in the backdrop of a certain breakdown or outworking of something that's been going on for a while.

Theological Roots of Nietzsche's Philosophy

In this section, the speaker discusses the theological roots of Nietzsche's philosophy and how Luther's Theology of the Cross is the closest predecessor to Nietzsche's ideas.

Luther as a Predecessor to Nietzsche

Luther gets the death of God expression from Hegel, who in turn got it from a Lutheran.

Luther's critique is not just theological but against a whole way of thinking about God.

Peter Harrison has written a book on Luther's critique and how it works out.

According to Jung, only two people have gotten close to answering the primary question of Christian theology - the death of God - Luther and Hegel.

Cultural Movement Towards Eastern Traditions

In this section, the speaker talks about the cultural movement towards Eastern traditions and its influence on theology.

Influence of Eastern Tradition on Theology

Lasky was one of the founders of trinitarian movement influenced by Eastern tradition.

Ziziolis at King's College London has interesting ideas on ontological community influenced by Eastern tradition.

The East starts with threeness and moves towards Oneness while the West does it vice versa.

The cultural movement towards Eastern traditions is simply a rebellion against sacred notions removed from mundane rhythms.

Search for Traditions that Encounter God Differently

In this section, the speaker talks about people searching for traditions that encounter God differently than what they are used to.

Rebellion Against Sacred Notions

People are searching for traditions that say "this is what it's going to be" and follow some sort of Church calendar.

Priority is given to spaces and times where God is encountered differently than the way we normally do.

David Bentley Hart's Conversion to Eastern Orthodoxy

In this section, the speakers discuss David Bentley Hart's conversion to Eastern Orthodoxy and the importance of preserving traditions.

Preserving Traditions

The Eastern churches have preserved their traditions well.

The West may need to get back to its roots and learn from these traditions.

However, this does not mean simply closing our eyes and going backwards. We must move forward while recovering and learning from these traditions.

The Goal of Theology

The goal of theology is not to transport ancient ideas into the modern world but rather to understand the meaning of the gospel for our times and worlds.

Theology seeks to understand what God means in light of all that is happening in our world today.

Conclusion

The speakers conclude by thanking each other for their time and inviting viewers to leave comments or questions below or via email.