The Influencer Playbook From $6M to $100M – Josh Durham Breaks It Down

Name: The Influencer Playbook From $6M to $100M – Josh Durham Breaks It Down
Uploaded: 2026-02-02T16:47:25.000Z
Duration: 1 h 58 min 45 s

Should Brands Pay Influencers?

Overview of Influencer Marketing Strategies

Josh Durham discusses whether brands should pay influencers for social media posts, suggesting that the relationship should extend beyond simple transactions.

He emphasizes the importance of understanding different influencer marketing strategies based on a brand's annual revenue.

Revenue-Based Influencer Engagement

For brands earning $0 to $6 million annually, he recommends focusing primarily on product gifting and limited paid promotions for social media usage.

Product gifting allows brands to generate diverse content without strict control over messaging, which can lead to authentic engagement from creators.

Paid Budget Recommendations

Brands with revenues between $6 million and $30 million should consider allocating a budget for paid promotions, particularly for whitelisting influencer content.

Gifting 100 to 200 influencers per quarter typically results in a high posting rate (around 75%), providing organic awareness at lower costs.

Differences Between Gifting and Seating

The distinction between "gifting" (where brands expect posts in exchange for products) and "seating" (sending products without expectations) is clarified.

Effective gifting involves setting clear expectations upfront regarding deliverables from influencers.

Targeting Micro-Creators

For brands under $10 million in revenue, targeting micro-creators with follower counts between 10k to 100k is recommended for effective product gifting.

As brands scale above this threshold, they may begin considering larger influencers but should still focus on maintaining authenticity through genuine engagements.

Influencer Marketing Strategies and Insights

The Role of Influencers in Paid Social Content

Working with influencers is often aimed at generating paid social content to test performance metrics like CPM, click-through rates, and return on ad spend.

Agencies may suggest paying influencers without clear deliverables, which can lead to disappointment if expectations are not met.

Budgeting for Influencer Collaborations

Recommendations vary based on the brand's revenue; smaller brands should avoid high influencer spending that larger brands can afford.

Early-stage businesses might focus on gifting products rather than direct payments to influencers as a cost-effective strategy.

Gifting vs. Whitelisting Deals

Successful whitelisting deals can be established with gifted creators, allowing brands to leverage influencer content for ads effectively.

Despite initial hesitance from influencers regarding whitelisting, it remains a viable option for brands looking to maximize their advertising reach.

Trust as a Key Factor in Influencer Marketing

Trust is crucial in influencer marketing; partnerships thrive when audiences believe in the authenticity of the influencer's endorsement.

Brands must consider their budget when deciding between gifting and whitelisting; both strategies have unique advantages depending on the target audience.

Efficiency in Managing Influencer Relationships

Gifting helps build awareness and creates a network of influencers who follow the brand, enhancing credibility through third-party trust.

Time constraints often make managing gifting relationships challenging; agencies streamline this process for clients seeking effective solutions.

Influencer Marketing Evolution and E-commerce Insights

The Journey of Influencer Marketing

Discussion on the long-term involvement in e-commerce, highlighting the skills required for building operations and strategies.

Reflection on returning to direct response marketing after exploring brand marketing and influencer collaborations, noting a convergence of these approaches.

Mention of starting in e-commerce since 2015, emphasizing the cyclical nature of trends within the industry.

Current Trends in E-commerce

Acknowledgment of uncertainty regarding current influencer marketing practices, with a desire to understand its present state better.

Recognition that both new entrants and seasoned professionals can learn from each other’s experiences in e-commerce.

Technological Advancements in Marketing

Comparison between past learning methods (long courses) versus modern tools (like Replo and ChatGPT), illustrating how technology has simplified processes.

Praise for Ezra Firestone as an influential figure in marketing, indicating trust built over years.

Staffing Solutions for E-commerce Businesses

Introduction to More Staffing as a solution for hiring talent from the Philippines, emphasizing their effectiveness over traditional staffing methods.

Explanation of cost-effectiveness when hiring skilled professionals from the Philippines compared to U.S. rates.

Quality Talent Acquisition

Insight into finding high-quality team members across various business roles through More Staffing's services.

Assurance about English proficiency among Filipino workers, addressing potential concerns about communication barriers.

Conclusion on Hiring Practices

Encouragement to explore hiring options with More Staffing due to their guarantee policy on hires not working out within a year.

Understanding the Distinctions Between Actors, Influencers, Creators, and Celebrities

The Categories of Talent

The speaker distinguishes between four categories of talent: actor, influencer, creator, and celebrity. Each category represents a different way to engage with talent in marketing.

Celebrity is defined as a higher-level influencer, often recognized through mainstream media such as television or sports. They gain validation from their visibility on platforms like "Dancing with the Stars."

Defining Roles

An actor is described as someone who reads a script for an advertisement; they may not necessarily be professional actors but serve to deliver messages without creating original content.

A creator is characterized by their ability to produce "algorithmic content," meaning they understand how to engage audiences effectively and leverage social media algorithms for visibility.

The Evolution of Influence

The transition from creator to influencer is discussed, highlighting that many influencers start as creators before gaining celebrity status. This progression illustrates the evolving nature of online personas.

Trust plays a crucial role in influencing consumer decisions. Brands often underestimate its importance until they face limitations in traditional advertising methods.

Building Trust Over Time

Establishing trust requires time and consistent engagement with audiences. Micro-influencers can build niche trust among smaller follower bases, which can significantly impact purchasing decisions.

Personal anecdotes illustrate how individuals develop trust in influencers over time, emphasizing that even small followings can have substantial influence within specific communities.

Long-Term Strategies for Influencer Marketing

The discussion emphasizes that influencer marketing should be viewed as a long-term strategy rather than a quick fix. Consistent presence in followers' feeds helps build familiarity and trust gradually.

Gifting products to influencers can be part of this long-term strategy, allowing brands to create organic relationships that lead to authentic endorsements over time.

Conclusion on Frequency and Engagement

Frequency of engagement over extended periods is essential for building brand recognition and trust within target communities. This approach contrasts sharply with traditional advertising methods that aim for immediate reach.

Influencer Marketing Insights

Creative Angles in Influencer Marketing

The discussion begins with examples of different influencer ads showcasing various creative angles, such as a fitness routine and family time spent while using gym equipment.

One influencer highlights the convenience of working out at home instead of commuting to a traditional gym, emphasizing quality family time.

The speaker notes that these influencers likely shared genuine experiences rather than scripted messages, which resonates more with potential customers.

There is an acknowledgment of multiple influencers presenting diverse perspectives on the same product, enhancing its appeal through varied narratives.

Trust plays a crucial role in purchase decisions; repeated touchpoints from trusted sources can significantly influence consumer behavior.

Retargeting vs. Whitelisted Ads

A question arises about the effectiveness of retargeting versus whitelisted ads, suggesting that both strategies may serve different stages in the marketing funnel.

The conversation reflects on how influencers genuinely believe in the products they promote, which enhances authenticity and trustworthiness in their messaging.

An anecdote illustrates a negative experience where an influencer was unenthusiastic about a product during a shoot, highlighting the importance of authentic endorsements.

Authenticity is further emphasized by contrasting it with situations where influencers are not genuinely excited about what they are promoting.

Gifting products to influencers who truly enjoy them leads to higher engagement and frequency of posts compared to those who do not resonate with the product.

Long-Term Engagement and Realistic Expectations

Successful influencer partnerships often result from ongoing relationships rather than one-off promotions; this builds credibility over time.

Different types of content creation (e.g., recipe videos vs. skincare routines) affect how frequently influencers can showcase products they love.

The speaker expresses a preference for long-term commitment and effort in building successful marketing strategies rather than seeking quick wins or shortcuts.

The title suggests that discussions will focus on realistic pathways for leveraging influencer marketing for sustainable growth rather than unrealistic expectations for rapid success.

Engaging Smaller Influencers

A scenario is presented involving gifting products to smaller influencers (50k followers), indicating potential differences across categories like beauty or fitness.

What to Do After Gifting Influencers?

Understanding the Gifting Process

The speaker discusses the importance of maintaining a relationship with influencers whose content performs well, especially after gifting them products.

It is noted that when working with influencers, brands should establish paid usage rights for about one year during the gifting process.

Brands should clarify upfront that they can use the influencer's content in their ad accounts as part of the gifting agreement.

Maximizing Deliverables from Influencer Partnerships

Brands can access influencer content for advertising purposes simply by sending products, without needing additional whitelisting agreements.

It's crucial to set clear expectations regarding deliverables upfront, aiming for maximum output such as an Instagram post and multiple stories.

A strategy is suggested where brands reach out to a large number of influencers (e.g., 800 per month), targeting a 10% opt-in rate and a 75% posting rate.

Next Steps After Securing Content Rights

Once content is secured in the ad account with one-year usage rights, brands should request whitelisting codes to run ads from the influencer’s account.

The discussion emphasizes using influencers not just for evergreen campaigns but also for specific product launches, suggesting ongoing relationships with creators.

Campaign Strategies and Payment Models

For product launches, it’s recommended to have multiple influencers post simultaneously while compensating them based on CPM (cost per thousand impressions).

A typical CPM range discussed is between $20-$30 based on previous performance metrics from their last ten videos.

Industry-Specific Considerations

The cost of whitelisting varies significantly depending on industry competitiveness; industries like supplements or outdoor products are highlighted as particularly competitive.

Influencer Marketing Strategies and Whitelisting Insights

The Landscape of Male vs. Female Creators

The influencer market shows a significant disparity, with approximately one solid male creator for every hundred female creators, leading to competitive rates in the industry.

For male apparel brands, focusing on paid partnerships and gifting to female creators (especially those buying for their spouses) is recommended as part of an effective strategy.

Whitelisting Costs and Negotiation Tactics

A notable discussion point is the success ratio of influencer fees to revenue generated, cited at around 5%, though this may vary based on specific cases.

An example illustrates that a whitelisted influencer with a million followers can generate substantial revenue (e.g., $150k from a $15k investment), emphasizing negotiation's role in maximizing returns.

Starting negotiations with a clear budget rather than asking for rate cards can lead to better deals; teams often secure discounts by not revealing their maximum budget upfront.

Building an E-commerce Business with Customer Service Software

Rich Panel is introduced as an efficient customer service software option that promises a 30% reduction in costs compared to competitors like Gorgeous or Zenesk.

Rich Panel’s AI-driven design allows it to provide superior customer service solutions, enhancing efficiency and user experience significantly.

Scaling Influencer Strategies for Growth

As brands grow (10 to 30 million), the influencer strategy should evolve; increased budgets allow for more extensive whitelisting efforts alongside continued gifting practices.

Recommended spending on influencer partnerships could be around $15k monthly, which should align with revenue ratios (5% - 10%) to ensure sustainable growth.

Deliverables from Influencer Partnerships

For mid-tier influencers (100k+ followers), typical deliverables include 90 days of whitelisting usage along with content such as IG reels and stories, ensuring comprehensive brand exposure.

Understanding Dark Posts and Influencer Marketing

The Concept of Dark Posts

Discussion on maximizing budget for paid social media by utilizing dark posts instead of regular posts.

Clarification that dark posts refer to ad content uploaded into platforms like Google Drive, which can be whitelisted for targeted advertising.

Importance of Content Visibility

Emphasis on the need for ad content to also exist on influencers' profiles to maintain visibility and credibility.

Mention that higher costs in influencer marketing are often due to engaging larger influencers who provide better returns.

Mid-Tier Influencers: A Valuable Asset

Definition of mid-tier influencers as those with 100k to 500k followers, seen as undervalued compared to celebrity-level influencers.

Argument that mid-tier influencers offer a balance of direct response (DR), trust, and audience engagement through their content.

Challenges with Micro Creators

Discussion about the limitations of micro creators despite their lower cost; they may lack the reach and algorithmic understanding that mid-tier influencers possess.

Concerns raised about certain mid-tier influencers who gained popularity through sports but may not effectively engage audiences online.

Trust Over Follower Count

Insight into how some athletes might not translate their fame into effective online influence due to poor content creation skills.

Example shared from past experiences at Groove, highlighting successful partnerships with less popular figures based on trust rather than follower count.

Targeting Niche Communities

Reflection on how niche targeting can lead to significant returns, using JB Mooney's example in bull riding as a case study for effective influencer partnerships.

Mention of Kayla's strategy in CrossFit marketing, emphasizing the importance of community trust over sheer follower numbers.

Influence and Community in Marketing

The Role of Influencers in Niche Markets

Rich Froing is highlighted as a credible figure within the CrossFit community, demonstrating how influential personalities can enhance product credibility.

JB Mooney serves as an example of a successful influencer in bull riding, showcasing the potential reach within closed communities despite their niche nature.

The discussion emphasizes the importance of targeting specific demographics, such as middle America and country music fans, for effective marketing strategies.

Lessons from Past Marketing Strategies

A reflection on Kao's past marketing efforts reveals a lack of focus; instead of honing in on one community like CrossFit, resources were spread too thin across various outdoor activities.

The speaker notes that half-hearted efforts led to subpar results, stressing the need for targeted engagement rather than broad but shallow outreach.

Building Trust Through Community Engagement

Engaging with influencers who resonate with target communities is crucial for building trust; it signals genuine involvement and commitment to those audiences.

Attending events and supporting relevant charities are recommended actions to deepen connections with these communities.

Importance of Organic Content

As brands scale up (10 to 30 million), maintaining organic posts becomes vital for brand longevity, even if immediate revenue isn't generated from them.

Allocating budget towards influencer deals should be seen as an investment in long-term brand presence rather than just short-term sales.

Maintaining Brand Presence Online

Many brands achieve significant revenue through platforms like Meta but often neglect their social media presence, which can undermine consumer trust.

Regular updates to social media profiles are essential; potential customers frequently check these accounts before making purchasing decisions.

Understanding the Role of Trust in Marketing

The Importance of Brand Trust

Emphasizes the significance of having a trusted figure, like a physician, recommend products to enhance brand credibility.

Highlights that many brands focus solely on direct response (DR) marketing, neglecting brand awareness which is crucial for establishing trust and preventing perceptions of being a scam.

Challenges with Direct Response Marketing

Points out that not all marketers possess the skills required to excel in DR marketing; most are not at the top percentile needed for success.

Suggests that brands should consider diversifying their strategies beyond just relentless DR efforts.

Influencer Marketing Strategies for Brands Over $30 Million

Budget Allocation for Influencer Marketing

Discusses how brands making over $30 million can allocate around $30k monthly towards influencer marketing as part of their strategy.

Recommends using this budget effectively for testing across various platforms like Snap or Pinterest.

Integrating Influencers into Overall Strategy

Stresses that influencer marketing should be integrated into broader marketing strategies rather than treated as isolated campaigns from 2015.

Advocates viewing influencers as tools for brand building and organic awareness, contributing to content creation across multiple channels.

Case Studies and Practical Applications

Successful Campaign Examples

Shares insights from working with CPG brands like Owen, which successfully launched in Costco through influencer engagement generating significant organic impressions.

Describes another case with PopSmith where strategic influencer partnerships helped sell out inventory on Costco.com within a short campaign period.

Strategic Use of Influencers

Encourages brands to define clear objectives when utilizing influencers—whether it's driving retail sales or supporting product launches—and incorporate them into content calendars effectively.

Concludes by noting that influencers often have more impact than they are credited for, suggesting they are underappreciated in terms of their influence on consumer purchasing decisions.

Influencer Marketing Insights

Personal Experiences with Influencer Purchases

The speaker shares a personal anecdote about purchasing an $800 hotel room in Miami without any tracking or discount codes, highlighting the influence of social media on consumer behavior.

They mention buying supplements through Instagram stories, indicating that while there may be some link tracking, many purchases occur outside of direct attribution methods.

Challenges in Attribution and Measurement

The discussion emphasizes that traditional incrementality studies are inadequate for measuring influencer impact, suggesting that financial outcomes serve as the best indicator of success.

Post-purchase surveys are mentioned as useful tools for gaining directional insights into consumer behavior, although their effectiveness can vary.

Collaboration Opportunities

Listeners are encouraged to visit alignedgrowthmanagement.com for potential collaboration with Josh and Steve regarding influencer marketing strategies.

The speaker expresses admiration for Josh's expertise and mentions free resources available from his team, including guides on influencer marketing.

Valuable Resources Offered

Two specific guides are highlighted: "The Ultimate Influencer Marketing Guide" and "The Complete Influencer Whitelisting Guide," both praised for their quality and practical application.

The guides are described as comprehensive resources capable of enabling businesses to manage their influencer programs effectively in-house.

Engagement with Audience

Viewers are invited to leave comments or questions for Josh during the podcast, emphasizing community engagement and interaction.

The speaker reflects positively on the episode's content, noting it provided clarity on various topics related to influencer marketing strategies.

Closing Remarks and Future Content

A call-to-action encourages listeners to explore alignedgrowthmanagement.com for scaling their influencer programs regardless of business size.

Additional resources such as email subscriptions and staffing solutions are promoted, along with upcoming episodes featuring notable guests.