Jordan Peterson on Gender, Patriarchy and the Slide Towards Tyranny

Name: Jordan Peterson on Gender, Patriarchy and the Slide Towards Tyranny
Uploaded: 2018-05-24T11:06:35.000Z
Duration: 1 h 58 min 25 s

Introduction

In this section, Anne McElroy introduces the Intelligence Squared podcast and her guest, Jordan Peterson.

Anne McElroy Introduces Jordan Peterson

Anne McElroy welcomes listeners to the Intelligence Squared podcast.

She introduces Jordan Peterson as a clinical psychologist and professor at the University of Toronto.

12 Rules for Life

In this section, Anne McElroy discusses Jordan Peterson's book "12 Rules for Life" and some of its key rules.

Key Rules from "12 Rules for Life"

Rule #1 is "Stand up straight with your shoulders back."

Rule #4 is "Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not to who someone else is today."

Rule #6 is "Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world."

Rule #12 is "Pet a cat when you encounter one on the street."

Jordan Peterson's Rise to Fame

In this section, Anne McElroy discusses how Jordan Peterson became famous and his views on modern liberal thinking.

How Jordan Peterson Became Famous

Beyond the lecture hall, Jordan Peterson began answering questions in an online forum.

His procrastination-induced musings hit a nerve and he now has hundreds of thousands of followers on social media.

His YouTube channel has over a million subscribers with videos such as "Identity Politics and the Marxist Lie of White Privilege" and "The Psychological Significance of the Biblical Stories."

Jordan Peterson's Views on Modern Liberal Thinking

Jordan Peterson is known as a scourge of much modern liberal thinking.

This stance has brought him a following of fans and detractors.

He wants to bring order to a world of chaos.

Why "12 Rules for Life" Struck a Chord

In this section, Anne McElroy asks Jordan Peterson why his book "12 Rules for Life" has struck such a chord with readers.

Why "12 Rules for Life" Struck a Chord

Jordan Peterson believes that his book has struck a chord because he is helping people understand how to live responsible and meaningful lives.

He believes that there is a conjunction between responsibility and meaning that hasn't been addressed properly in our culture for a long time.

Identity Politics

In this section, Anne McElroy discusses identity politics with Jordan Peterson.

Identity Politics

Jordan Peterson says that most of what he does is psychological endeavor, not political endeavor.

He thinks that male activity is viewed with far more skepticism than is warranted at the moment.

He believes that the viewpoint that assumes our culture is best construed as oppressive patriarchy of some sort and any activity within it is regarded as a manifestation of tyranny is an absolutely appalling viewpoint in his estimation.

The way our discourse is framed right now makes it impossible to avoid being shunted into an identity politics box.

The Importance of Individual Responsibility

In this section, Jordan Peterson discusses the importance of individual responsibility and how it is a key theme in his work.

The Antidote to Group Targeting

Peterson believes that his message is an antidote to the idea that messages should be targeted at groups.

He is interested in the individual and their development, which makes sense given his background as a professor who teaches individual students and a clinical psychologist who focuses on the development of the individual.

Personal Responsibility

Peterson's talks attract thousands of people who are trying to adopt personal responsibility and improve their lives, families, and communities.

His rules for life are guidelines to help people avoid pitfalls rather than finger-wagging moral injunctions designed to make them feel guilty.

Self-Help Manuals and Finger-Wagging Morality

In this section, Jordan Peterson discusses why he chose a self-help approach with his book "The Rules for Life" and how he avoids finger-wagging morality in his lectures.

A Tradition of Self-Help Manuals

"The Rules for Life" takes us back to Samuel Smiles and Victorian self-help manuals.

However, Peterson does not like being told what to do or engaging in finger-wagging morality.

Avoiding Top-Down Morality

Peterson does not include himself in the list of people who need improvement when giving lectures.

He believes that we have plenty of tragedy and malevolence to contend with in our lives, so we need to figure out how to deal with them properly without becoming bitter, cruel, or resentful.

His lectures are attractive because they avoid top-down morality.

Individual Sovereignty vs. Collective Elevation

In this section, Jordan Peterson discusses the danger of elevating the collective over the individual and how his message appeals to people who feel that public discourse is being conducted in a dangerous manner.

The Danger of Collective Elevation

Peterson believes that elevating the collective over the individual poses a danger on both the left and right.

He appeals to the notion of individual sovereignty, which he considers to be the primary meta-message behind all of his work.

A Way Out

Peterson suggests that life is suffering because we are mortal, fragile, and subject to malevolence at our own hands and at the hands of others.

He encourages people to confront these issues forthrightly and adopt responsibility in their own lives to make the world a better place.

The Value of Ideologies

In this section, Dr. Peterson discusses the value of ideologies and how they can be dangerous.

Ideologies and Personal Responsibility

Dr. Peterson believes that adopting an ideology can lead to abdicating personal responsibility.

He thinks that ideologies are dangerous, regardless of whether they are on the left or right.

Adopting an ideology can give people an unearned sense of moral superiority and omniscient knowledge, which is not helpful.

The Problem with Ideologies

Dr. Peterson argues that viewing the world as a battleground between different ideologies is a mistake.

He believes that ideologies only serve a power elite and are just battles of opinions with nothing underneath them.

Competence is one force at play in the world that isn't mere power.

Maps of Meaning

Dr. Peterson wrote a book called "Maps of Meaning" about the relationship between archetypal thinking, proper religious thinking, and parasitical structures like ideologies.

Liberalism and Individual Sovereignty

In this section, Dr. Peterson discusses liberalism and individual sovereignty.

Classic Liberalism

Dr. Peterson considers himself a classic liberal who owes Britain a great debt for developing this political understanding.

He believes that individuals should be regarded as sovereign entities in politics because it's derived from the Judeo-Christian tradition where suffering individuals are sovereign entities.

Sovereignty of the Individual

The idea of individual sovereignty is far deeper than anything encapsulated politically.

It has an immense developmental history that radically predates any articulated political beliefs.

Great classic liberals like John Locke had strong ideas about individual liberty and sovereignty where no one from the monarch down has the right to take away individual sovereignty.

Feminism and Equality

In this section, the speaker discusses feminism and equality of opportunity versus equality of outcome. He also talks about how the left can go too far in pursuing equality.

Definition of Feminism

The speaker defines feminism as the idea that it would be a good thing for society to arrange itself so that the talents of women were as available to use by the collective as the talents of men.

He supports this idea because talents are in short supply, and it is foolish for society to waste them.

Equality of Opportunity vs. Outcome

The speaker believes that women have more equality of opportunity than they did 100 or even 50 years ago, but there is still room for improvement.

He argues that pursuing absolute equality of outcome is a catastrophic ideal because it has serious consequences when played out in the world.

The speaker notes that both the left and right can go too far, but he believes that pushing an equality of outcome agenda is going too far.

Dangers Posed by Pursuing Equality

The speaker argues that pursuing an equality of outcome agenda under the rubric of equity fosters a pernicious effect on institutions, especially educational institutions in North America.

He believes that this view poses far more danger than his analysis suggests and sees it as an increasingly widespread view on campuses in North America.

Dissatisfaction with Society

In this section, the speaker discusses the ever-present human tendency towards envy and resentment and how it may be driving the popularity of certain views.

Dissatisfaction with Society

The speaker suggests that if a popular view exists, such as pursuing equality of outcome, it may be because existing society has not satisfied reasonable aspirations.

He notes that this dissatisfaction is often driven by envy and resentment.

The Gender Pay Gap

In this section, Jordan Peterson discusses the issue of the gender pay gap and why it is a multivariate problem that cannot be explained by a univariate analysis.

The Multivariate Nature of the Gender Pay Gap

The gender pay gap is not a univariate problem but rather a multivariate one.

Men and women do not make the same amount of money due to various factors such as differences in occupation choices, prejudice, and depression.

There are 42 reasons why men make more money than women according to Warren Farrell's book "Why Men Make More."

It is important to understand that there are situations where women make more money than men.

Is Gender Socially Constructed?

In this section, Jordan Peterson discusses whether gender is socially constructed or not.

Parameters of Gender

To discuss whether gender is socially constructed or not, we need to first define what we mean by gender.

Temperament is one parameter that differs between men and women cross-culturally.

Psychometric work has been done on personality traits which resulted in the Big Five model. This model shows that men and women are more similar than different in terms of personality traits.

Differences Between Genders

Although there are more similarities than differences between genders, it doesn't mean that differences are irrelevant.

Men tend to be more aggressive than women. If you had to guess who was more aggressive between two people at random from the population, guessing the man would be correct 60% of the time.

When looking for the most aggressive person (e.g., for incarceration), they tend to be male.

Gender Differences in Temperament

In this section, the speaker discusses the differences in temperament between men and women and how they are affected by socio-cultural policies.

Egalitarianism and Gender Differences

The more egalitarian a country is, the bigger the differences between men and women in terms of temperament.

It is difficult to rank order countries by their socio-cultural policies from egalitarian to non-egalitarian.

There isn't a definition of temperament that exists that is valid outside of the psychometric community.

Evidence for Gender Differences

Evidence should be used to determine gender differences rather than personal beliefs or experiences.

The five-dimensional model of temperament is sophisticated but there are many multi-dimensional spaces in reality itself.

Implications of Gender Differences

The existence of gender differences raises questions about what progress should look like.

Multiple factors contribute to the gender pay gap, including prejudice, lack of provision of opportunities for women, and other factors such as job preferences and child-rearing responsibilities.

It would be mad to reduce everything to gender and assume it's a consequence of oppression.

Factors Contributing to the Gender Pay Gap

In this section, the speaker discusses various factors contributing to the gender pay gap.

Job Preferences

Women tend to work in people-oriented enterprises which are hard to scale compared with jobs that men typically do.

Occupational Hazards

Men are more likely than women to work with heavy machinery and take on trade positions, which are more dangerous.

Work-Life Balance

Women may be under pressure of child-rearing that is not accounted for or properly helped with.

The lack of provision of opportunities for women is contributing to the pay gap.

Moving Up the Career Ladder

Men are more likely than women to move up the paid chain.

Women and Men in History

In this section, the speaker discusses how both men and women have been subject to arbitrary cultural strictures throughout history. He argues that women had a difficult time due to the extra pressures of child-rearing and pregnancy.

Men vs Women in History

Men were directed down narrow pathways, such as being conscripted into wars resulting in many deaths.

Both sexes were subject to arbitrary cultural strictures.

Child-rearing and pregnancy played a large role in making life difficult for women.

Women were locked into a reproductive cycle from which they had no practical escape until the 1960s.

Oppression Narrative

The narrative that men oppressed women throughout history is not entirely accurate.

Everyone was poor and miserable, and both men and women teamed up to make life less miserable for each other.

Gender Pay Gap

In this section, the speaker discusses the gender pay gap and how it is not necessarily due to oppression but rather self-selection out of the workplace by some women.

Self-selection Out of Workplace

Women do self-select out of the workplace all the time.

Many women decide that having children and spending time with them is more valuable than going back to work.

Women are overrepresented at lower ends of professions like law but stop operating at high ends in their 30s because they tend to decide they don't want to work 80 hours a week.

Addressing Gender Pay Gap

The gender pay gap is a narrowly focused problem related to long-term career earnings if women become mothers.

It needs addressing but is not the same as the gender pay gap itself.

The child-rearing roles of men and women need to come more into balance, allowing women to come back earlier.

Feminism

In this section, the speaker discusses feminism and how it is not a widely held belief among British women.

Feminism in Society

Only a small minority of British women regard themselves as feminists.

Part of the reason for this is that feminism has become associated with a rather reprehensible ideology.

Feminism and Women's Rights

In this section, the speaker discusses his views on feminism and women's rights. He argues against identity politics and the idea that men should be set against women. He also believes that women were not as powerless in the past as feminists claim they were.

The Negative Aspects of Feminism

The speaker is not a fan of identity politics games.

He does not believe that men should be set against women or view history as a structure that pitted oppressed women against oppressor men.

The speaker thinks that feminism is fundamentally predicated on resentment and is designed to divide people in ways that will not be good.

Women's Status in the Past

The speaker believes that if women had it hard in the past, which they certainly did, the amount of oppression attributable to men was far smaller than what feminists claim because nature had her hand in it.

Life was very hard for both men and women for almost all of human history, so viewing it as part of an oppression narrative on the part of men is one of the things that is very hard on young men when they're trying to take their place in the world.

Birth Control Pill and Reproductive Control

In this section, the speaker talks about how birth control pills have enabled women to have more control over their reproductive status. This has led to more flexibility in their lives but also has consequences for both men and women.

Changes Enabled by Birth Control Pills

The birth control pill was invented in the 1960s, which allowed women to have more control over their reproductive status.

This has led to more flexibility in women's lives, but the speaker notes that the causal order of this change is an open-ended question.

Consequences for Men and Women

The speaker believes that birth control pills have consequences for both men and women.

Casual sex is much more available than it used to be, which has enabled men to not grow up as much. However, the speaker does not think that casual sexual relationships are good for either men or women.

Me Too Campaign

In this section, the speaker talks about his views on the Me Too campaign. He thinks that it risks damaging the presumption of innocence and that there is very little good about casual sexual relationships.

Views on Me Too Campaign

The speaker thinks that the Me Too campaign risks damaging the presumption of innocence.

Women face a complicated situation where they have to deal with sexual advances mixed with workplace performance all the time.

Men and Women in the Workplace

Jordan Peterson discusses how men and women can work together properly in the workforce, given that they are having a hard time regulating their behavior.

Me Too Movement

The Me Too movement is an expression of the fact that men and women are having a hard time regulating their behavior in the workplace.

Harvey Weinstein was wrong to do what he did. Other people should have spoken out much sooner.

There are going to be psychopathic predators, but people have to stop them because they won't stop themselves.

Hollywood had a culture of letting powerful men like Harvey Weinstein get away with sexual predation.

Sexual Predation at Work

It's difficult to say what men and women have to do in the workplace to make sexual predation less likely without subjecting themselves to unbearable restrictions on their sexuality.

To eliminate sexual differences between men and women at work, you would have to constrain those differences. However, you don't need to eliminate them entirely for people to work together with respect.

Sexual Attractiveness at Work

Jordan Peterson discusses how sexually related behavior should be regulated at work.

Dress Code

You can't separate human attractiveness from sexual attractiveness. Therefore, it's difficult to define boundaries for what constitutes attractive dressing at work.

People should be able to dress attractively as long as it doesn't cross any boundaries or become distracting.

Losing Freedom of Speech

Jordan Peterson discusses how freedom of speech is under threat.

Polarization

People are becoming more careful about what they say, which is not good.

Comedians won't perform on university campuses now because of the lack of freedom of speech.

We have to be very careful to maintain freedom of speech because it's always under threat.

Jordan Peterson on YouTube Sensationalism

In this section, Jordan Peterson discusses the sensationalism and polarization that occurs in YouTube videos. He also talks about how he may have fallen into the trap of becoming more emotional than optimal.

Sensationalism in YouTube Videos

People make 4000 videos out of my videos a week on YouTube, so there is a lot of variance in how people present their arguments.

Sensationalism and polarization are used to compete for views, which is a bad idea.

Social media environment sometimes pushes many of us towards sensationalism.

Emotional Responses

Jordan Peterson admits to falling into the trap of becoming more irritable about identity politics than optimal.

He has been careful about what he says but may have become more emotional about things that might not have been optimal.

Describing Likelihood vs Supporting Fact

In this section, Jordan Peterson clarifies that describing the likelihood of something happening does not mean supporting its existence. He also explains how pushing too far on one side can lead to backlash from the other side.

Political Backlash

Describing the likelihood of something happening does not mean supporting its existence.

Pushing too far on one side can lead to backlash from the other side.

Domestic Violence

The comment on political backlash had nothing to do with domestic violence.

Violence often pops up in his work but it's a whole different issue from political backlash.

Men and Women in Society

In this section, Jordan Peterson talks about how men have difficulty with women who are completely out of control. He also clarifies that everyone is controlled by society.

Men and Women

Men have difficulty with women who are completely out of control.

Everyone is controlled by society.

Aggression and Gender Differences

In this section, the speaker discusses how aggression is expressed differently in men and women. Women tend to express aggression through innuendo, gossip, and reputation destruction while men tend to use physical aggression.

Gender Differences in Aggression

Adolescents exhibit aggressive and anti-social behavior differently based on gender.

Women tend to express aggression through innuendo, gossip, and reputation destruction.

Men are more likely to use physical force as a form of aggression.

Women manifest aggression towards themselves or others but don't use lethal force like men do.

Human Nature and Ideology

In this section, the speaker talks about his views on human nature and ideology. He believes that people are both good and evil, culture can be both secure and tyrannical, and nature can be both benevolent or catastrophic.

Views on Human Nature

People are neither inherently good nor evil but rather both.

Culture can be both secure and tyrannical.

Nature can be both benevolent or catastrophic.

Provocative Speeches vs Keeping Temper

In this section, the speaker discusses how he became popular due to his ability to keep his temper under situations where there's substantial reason not to. He also mentions that he has done more good than harm with his online lectures despite some people construing them as some sort of fundamental political war.

Success and Provocative Speeches

The speaker became popular due to his ability to keep his temper under situations where there's substantial reason not to.

The good that the speaker has done with his online lectures far outweighs whatever harm might be done by the fact that people are cutting them and making provocative titles out of them.

The Purpose of Patreon

In this section, Dr. Peterson discusses the purpose of his Patreon account and why he set it up.

Why Set Up a Patreon Account?

Dr. Peterson set up his Patreon account out of curiosity to explore how creative people can monetize their productions.

He also needed to live and support his family, as well as pursue other interests such as building an online university.

People provide him with money because they hope he will continue doing what he's doing, not because he's selling anything.

Political Stance and Crowdsourcing

People subscribe to his Patreon not primarily because of his political stance but because they have been helped by his videos.

Dr. Peterson identifies himself as an "evil capitalist" and does not apologize for it.

His leftist critics accuse him of generating a lot of money through his Patreon account, but all the content he produces is free and not advertising-supported.

Left-Wing vs Right-Wing Threats in Universities

In this section, Dr. Peterson talks about the threats posed by left-wing and right-wing ideologies in universities.

Threat from the Radical Left

The radical left has usurped universities in North America and Europe, threatening their integrity.

Authoritarianism that often turns rightwards is a threat to universities' rules.

Threat from the Far Right

There are no conservatives in universities in the social sciences and humanities.

Dr. Peterson has written extensively about right-wing authoritarian threats to liberty.

Criticism from Both Sides

In this section, Dr. Peterson talks about criticism he receives from both the left and the right.

Accusations of Nazi Sympathies

A Jewish newspaper accused him of harboring Nazi sympathies.

An article came out accusing him of being a stooge and a shill for the Jews.

Political Positioning

Dr. Peterson positions himself in the middle if he can attract that sort of criticism on both sides.

He does not see Donald Trump as an expression of either left or right attitudes but rather as a unique phenomenon.

Trump and Liberalism

In this section, Jordan Peterson discusses the American political landscape and Donald Trump's presidency. He also talks about liberalism and its need for change.

Trump's Presidency

Jordan Peterson believes that there hasn't been a massive shift in the American political landscape since Trump's election.

He thinks that Trump winning the Republican nomination was due to people being discontented with the Democrats' tilt towards identity politics.

Peterson blames the Democrats for losing their working-class base by playing identity politics.

While he acknowledges that Trump has faults such as being bombastic and narcissistic, he doesn't think America is any more polarized than it was in 1972.

Liberalism

Peterson believes that liberalism needs to dissociate itself from the radical left, which it refuses to do.

However, he acknowledges the difficulty of deciding when the left has gone too far.

Feminism

In this section, Jordan Peterson talks about feminism and his favorite admirable woman.

Favorite Admirable Woman

When asked if he has a favorite feminist, Peterson says he doesn't think of things that way.

He mentions Florence Nightingale as his favorite admirable woman because she established nursing as a profession in Britain.