Introduction and Introductions

Nathan Black, Operations Manager for Finji, introduces himself and the guests Andrew Schuldice and Lindsay Ishihoro. Andrew talks about his role as the primary developer on Tunic while Lindsay discusses her role in writing, narrative design, creature design, and community development for I Was a Teenage Exocolonist.

Introducing the Guests

• Nathan Black introduces Andrew Schuldice as the primary developer on Tunic.

• Nathan Black introduces Lindsay Ishihoro as a writer, narrative designer, creature designer, and community developer for I Was a Teenage Exocolonist.

• The guests discuss how two different games approached narrative design.

Narrative Development for Tunic vs. I Was a Teenage Exocolonist

Andrew discusses how Tunic's narrative development involved hiding behind ambiguity while Lindsay gushes about how much she loves the honesty of I Was a Teenage Exocolonist's storytelling approach.

Narrative Approach to Tunic

• The narrative development for Tunic was about hiding behind ambiguity and keeping things open to interpretation.

• There is very little written work in Tunic; it is mostly written in a strange glyph-like language.

• The visual beats of establishing why this world exists are told very lightly.

Narrative Approach to I Was a Teenage Exocolonist

• Lindsay admires I Was a Teenage Exocolonist for telling an honest story with vulnerability.

• The game is upfront about what it will put players through.

• There are similarities and differences between the narrative approach to Tunic and I Was a Teenage Exocolonist.

• Lindsay wrote 600,000 words for I Was a Teenage Exocolonist over a year and a half.

Lindsay's Writing Process

Lindsay talks about her writing process for I Was a Teenage Exocolonist.

Writing for I Was a Teenage Exocolonist

• Lindsay put a lot of herself in the story and what she was going through at the time.

• The game was written during quarantine while homeschooling her daughter through grade two in French immersion.

The Narrative Approach to Exocolonist

In this section, the speaker talks about how social unrest and concern for the future inspired them to write Exocolonist. They also discuss their writing process and how they wrote themselves into corners to discover the story.

Writing Process

• Once the speaker started writing, they couldn't stop.

• They come from a fandom background and brought that energy to Exocolonist.

• The development team asked the speaker to write less, but they kept writing.

• The speaker is proud of Exocolonist because it reflects their hopes and fears for humanity.

Discovering the Story

• The speaker wrote themselves into corners to discover the story as they went along.

Fan Interpretations of Exocolonist

In this section, the speakers discuss fan interpretations of Exocolonist and how fans have discovered hidden clues in the game.

Fan Interpretations

• The speakers have faith in fans' ability to understand all parts of Exocolonist.

• Fans have written fanfic based on scant clues left by the writer.

• Many fans have understood what was intended by hidden clues in the game.

Secrets in Tunic

In this section, Andrew discusses secrets in Tunic and whether or not fans have found everything he has hidden in the game.

Secrets in Tunic

• There are still more secrets left undiscovered in Tunic.

• The caliber of secrets left in the game are those that only connect with certain players.

Different Types of Nerds

In this section, the speakers discuss different types of nerds and how they approach games.

Nerdery Spheres

• There are different spheres of nerdery.

• Some nerds love secrets and knowing everything, while others only need to know a little bit before moving on.

• The latter group tends to write the most fanfic.

Quiet on Discord

• The speaker is quiet on Discord because she is the type of person who types something out and then deletes it.

• She prefers not to say anything if she thinks it's best not to.

Experiential Nature of Games

In this section, the speakers discuss the experiential nature of games and how players can approach them in different ways.

Discovery in Tunic vs. EXO

• Tunic is a game about discovery where players find secrets themselves, while in EXO, players explore paths through their avatar.

• EXO has a broad story that can be experienced in many ways, while Tunic has a more focused story that can be explored in your own way.

Playing as Yourself or Someone Else

• Players can choose to play as themselves or someone else when starting a game.

• Some people play games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect as if they were their player avatar, while others play as if they were living in the world with their own unique opinions.

• In EXO, some people play Soul as if it were themselves walking through the world, while others have a particular Soul in mind that they're playing.

Story Agency

• Playing as Soul in EXO gives players a sense of story agency where they get to choose how they go through the world and how that affects the story.

• Tunic has a story with branches, while EXO has a fork at the beginning where players can choose what the story is.

Character Development in Video Games

The speakers discuss the character development in video games and how it affects the player's experience.

Player-Character Relationship

• The speaker talks about witnessing a character change in a game, where their soul started out one way but became quite a different person.

• In contrast, another game intentionally kept the layer between player and player character as thin as possible to make the avatar feel like a cipher through which the player experiences the world.

Fourth Wall Breaks

• One of the games has a manual that breaks the fourth wall, implying that what you do in-game affects what you can see and do as a player.

• Both games have some sort of Grand Cosmic Loop happening, which is expressed through meta-textual elements.

Naivete and Darker Themes

• One of the speakers mentions that both games start with naivete about the world but gradually reveal darker themes.

• The narrative design supports being a child, making child characters seem very real and intensely bonding with other characters.

Branching Narrative

• A lot of branching elements come from player choices, such as falling in love or having falling outs with other characters.

Designing a Coherent Story

In this section, the speaker talks about designing a coherent story with multiple choices and paths. They discuss how they had to account for every possible choice and make sure it was supported by the choices players could make.

Designing Choices

• The speaker discusses how they had to account for every possible choice in the game.

• They talk about how they had to constantly go back and check themselves to ensure that every possible thing you could do was supported by the choices you could make.

• The speaker mentions that having all these choices in front of you and then having to pick one made growing up feel real.

• They mention that their experience playing the game so far has been astoundingly internally consistent.

Optional Content

• The speaker talks about how there are some points in the game where you'd only get a little piece of lore if you failed a card event.

• They mention that these secrets are hidden in Mexico colonist, which encourages people to play over and over again.

• The speaker discusses how adding soul to be this god-like creature who could understand and know everything was a very compelling power fantasy at the time.

Designing for Miscibility

• The speaker talks about how Tunic tries to embrace things being miscible or doing things out of order.

• They mention that Extra Colonist is like a story with a beginning, middle, and an end but not everyone is having the same experience due to key events guaranteed to happen, lots of other events that can or can't happen depending on chance or how you perform in games, and a lot of flags and checks.

Writing a Narrative-Driven Game

In this section, the speaker talks about how they wrote their game and the process they went through to create it.

Training for Writing a Game

• The speaker trained for writing their game by writing fanfic.

• They thought really hard about the game for a year and a half.

Creating a World with Agency

• The world in both games has a sense of agency.

• The hidden moments in EXO give players an understanding that there is more to the world than what meets the eye.

• Tunic has many hidden paths and extra things that add depth to the world.

• This deep agency gives players an immersive experience.

Designing Characters with Their Own Paths

• The speaker deliberately wrote characters with their own paths, making them their own main characters in their own stories.

• Players cannot change who these characters are or what they do, but can choose to enter their lives and have an effect on them.

• This design goal was unfriendly to the idea that the player is the main character in everyone's story.

Obtuseness of World Design

• Writing a game that was fundamentally unfriendly to this idea was something they were going for on purpose.

• The obtuseness of the world and its elements added to this design goal.

Exploring Ruined Worlds

In this section, the speakers discuss the design elements of two different video games that evoke emotions of isolation and loneliness. They talk about how players explore ruined worlds and realize that there are connections happening beneath the surface that they didn't realize.

Design Elements in Tunic

• Tunic is a game where players explore a ruined world and realize that everything happened without them.

• The game evokes emotions of isolation and loneliness by making players feel small and helpless.

• The bad ending in Tunic takes away the player's agency, which can be frustrating but also adds to the narrative.

Design Elements in EXO Colonist

• EXO Colonist is a game where players explore a ruined world and try to figure things out.

• The game has heart meters for characters, but it doesn't necessarily end in smooching.

• The game presents everything about the world to the player, but they can't possibly experience all of it.

Eliciting Emotions Through Video Game Endings

In this section, the speakers discuss how video games can elicit emotions through their endings. They talk about how even bad endings can be good from a narrative standpoint.

Bad Endings vs Good Endings

• In Tunic, most people will get a bad ending where something bad happens to the player character and they lose agency.

• A bad ending doesn't necessarily mean it's bad from a narrative standpoint.

• The feeling of a bad ending is an interesting motion to want to evoke in players.

Designing Endings

• In Tunic, the designer wanted players to feel small and helpless, even if they had a good ending.

• The game creates a feeling of helplessness by making players realize that they don't know everything that's going on in the world.

The Power of Nostalgia

In this section, the speaker discusses how Tunic tries to generate feelings of nostalgia without relying on the player's past experiences. They also talk about how they wanted to convey a sense of wonder and excitement that comes with being a child.

Conveying Emotions

• The game aims to convey emotions associated with childhood, such as wonder and excitement.

• Players report feeling young and learning about the world while playing Tunic.

• The speaker believes that fiction has the power to make people remember things they saw in media and apply them to real-life situations.

Sci-Fi as Social Commentary

In this section, the speaker talks about how sci-fi can be used as social commentary by taking real-world issues and blowing them up for audiences to see.

Using Sci-Fi for Social Commentary

• The speaker links Exoconus to real-world events that were bad.

• Fiction has the power to make people aware of issues they may have ignored before.

• By making people aware of these issues, they may take action against them.

Fighting Against Nostalgia

In this section, the speaker talks about how Tunic fights back against nostalgia by showing players that things are deeper and darker than they realize.

Challenging Assumptions

• Tunic challenges assumptions that things were better when you were younger.

• There are secrets that players couldn't possibly know, and they should work harder to understand the world around them.

Nostalgia and Critical Lens

In this section, the speakers discuss nostalgia and how it can be a dangerous thing. They suggest using nostalgia as a critical lens to evaluate things that we liked in the past.

Using Nostalgia as a Critical Lens

• Using nostalgia as a way to understand why something was good and evoke its positive aspects.

• Using nostalgia as an alarm to be more critical of what is radiating the feeling of nostalgia.

EXO's Mechanical Benefits

In this section, the speakers talk about EXO's mechanical benefits and how they reflect their friends' personalities.

Mechanical Benefits of Friends Cards

• The mechanical benefits of friends cards reflect their personalities.

• An example is Anemone's loyalty card, which brings all red cards to a certain minimum.

• The realization that you have outgrown a friendship can be heartbreaking but also important.

Pronunciation Clues in EXO

In this section, the speakers discuss pronunciation clues in EXO and encourage fandom people to tear apart their canon for fanfic purposes.

Pronunciation Clues in EXO

• Tangent's nickname "Tanga Lang a Ding Dongs" suggests her name should be pronounced "Tang."

• Tangent's brother's name has to be pronounced "This" for the joke to work.

• Fandom people are encouraged to tear apart the canon for fanfic purposes.

The Slow Burn of Realizing Relationships

In this section, the speakers talk about the slow burn of realizing relationships and how it can be heartbreaking but also wonderful.

Realizing Relationships

• The way you spend your time professionally influences who you spend time with and how your relationships form.

• Tammy's card boosts up the person to her left or right by a surprising amount.

• Deciding to forget certain memories can be heartbreaking but also a realization that they are less valuable.

The Narrative and Design of Exocolonist

In this section, the speakers discuss the different aspects of Exocolonist, including its card game and how it supports the narrative. They also talk about the challenges of creating a game with multiple threads and systems that work together.

The Different Threads in Exocolonist

• Exocolonist has three different threads - life simulation, romancing dateables 10 heart meter aspect, and card game.

• It's hard to pinpoint which part of the game players want to play because all three threads interact with each other.

Challenges in Creating a Game with Multiple Threads

• It was challenging to create a game with multiple threads that work together seamlessly.

• Despite these challenges, it was gratifying to see that all the systems worked well together.

Nostalgia Bait and Switch

In this section, Lindsay talks about the importance of critically thinking about why nostalgia feels good. She also expresses excitement for where games are headed in terms of connecting real-life societal issues with gaming.

Critically Thinking About Nostalgia

• Lindsay emphasizes the importance of looking back and critically thinking about why nostalgia feels good.

• She is excited to see where games are headed in terms of connecting real-life societal issues with gaming.

Social Change Through Gaming

• Lindsay talks about how great art often comes out during times of social unrest.

• She is excited to be working in games right now and writing her hopes and dreams into something.