Bass Icon Chuck Rainey Lays It Down: Aretha Franklin, Steely Dan & Quincy Jones

Introduction

Chuck Rainey is a bassist and session musician who has played with Aretha Franklin, Quincy Jones, Steely Dan, and many others. In this interview, he talks about his background and how he got into playing the bass.

Background

• Chuck Rainey is a bassist and session musician who has played on thousands of recordings.

• He has worked with artists such as Aretha Franklin, Quincy Jones, and Steely Dan.

• The interviewer knows Chuck through his work with Steely Dan and through other musicians who have worked with him.

Musical Background

• Chuck started playing music on the viola in fourth or fifth grade but didn't care for it.

• He then switched to playing trumpet throughout middle school, high school, and his first year of college.

• In college, he switched to playing baritone horn which gave him a feel for the bass clef.

• While in the Army, he learned how to play guitar which led him to start playing jazz and R&B music.

• His bandmates suggested that he try playing bass because of his large hands. He was 21 when he started playing bass.

Transitioning into Session Work

• Chuck transitioned into doing session work along with everyone else in his band.

Becoming a Session Player

In this section, the speaker talks about his experience as a session player and how he got started in the industry.

Starting Out as a Session Player

• When the speaker first arrived in New York, he attended every jam session he could find.

• He was not afraid to approach bands and introduce himself to band leaders.

• The speaker emphasizes the importance of making connections in the industry.

Working with Steely Dan

• The speaker discusses his experience working with Steely Dan.

• He explains that they were difficult people to work with but that he enjoyed their music.

• The speaker was the first bass player that Steely Dan used on their records.

Enjoying Your Work

In this section, the speaker talks about his love for music and how it motivates him to do his best work.

Doing What You Love

• The speaker emphasizes that if you like what you're doing, you'll do anything to stay on a project.

• He explains that he enjoys playing music because it makes him happy and provides for his family.

Working on Successful Projects

• The speaker notes that once you're successful in the industry, other producers will gravitate towards using you on their projects.

• He explains that there is a difference between playing live and playing in the studio.

Overdubbing and Working with Bernard Purdie

In this section, Chuck Rainey talks about overdubbing and working with Bernard Purdie on the Steely Dan album "The Royal Scam". He also discusses the importance of having a good feel in music.

Overdubbing on "The Royal Scam"

• Chuck Rainey talks about overdubbing on "The Royal Scam" album.

• The album was done quickly in about four days to a week, which is faster than what they would have done in LA.

• The band had to get the record done because they owed it to their label. Eric Gale cared about the record, so they did it quickly.

Working with Bernard Purdie

• Chuck Rainey talks about working with Bernard Purdie and how he is special.

• Bernard's hi-hat playing is unique and adds a lot to the music. He has certain intricacies that no other drummer has.

• When Bernard disagrees with the feel of a song, he will change it. He is always right when it comes to changing feels.

• Steve Gadd and Bernard Purdie are two drummers who always provide a good feel for music. They are professionals who understand what needs to be done.

Importance of Having a Good Feel

• Chuck Rainey emphasizes the importance of having a good feel in music. He learned early on not to overplay or let his ego get in the way. It's important to play what feels right for the song and not try to do too much.

The Importance of Studio Musicians

In this section, the speaker discusses the importance of studio musicians and how they are able to emulate any kind of music. He also talks about how important it is to fit in with the producers and arrangers.

Studio Musicians

• Studio musicians are able to listen to all kinds of music and can emulate any kind of thing.

• They are hired by producers who expect them to come up with parts on their own.

• Half of his career has been playing from chord charts or no charts at all.

• It's important for studio musicians to understand the mindset, behavior, and responsibility required for each session.

Working as a Session Musician

In this section, the speaker talks about working as a session musician. He explains that he listens carefully during sessions and tries to make sure that whatever he plays sounds like something anyone could play.

Playing in Sessions

• The speaker listens carefully during sessions and tries to make sure that whatever he plays sounds like something anyone could play.

• Producers can see what he's doing, so sometimes they will ask him if he wants to do something specific.

• The Archies was a project where they wanted the music to sound like anyone on their street could play it.

• Half of his career has been playing from chord charts or no charts at all.

Reading Music in Sessions

In this section, the speaker discusses reading music in sessions. He explains that half of his career has been playing from chord charts or no charts at all. When there is no chart available, he listens carefully to demos or drum beats provided by other musicians.

Reading Music

• Half of his career has been playing from chord charts or no charts at all.

• When there is no chart available, he listens carefully to demos or drum beats provided by other musicians.

• Studio musicians are able to emulate any kind of music and can come up with parts on their own.

• The idea is to make the artist feel like they've done something.

Arranging Music in Sessions

In this section, the speaker talks about arranging music in sessions. He explains that studio musicians are expected to come up with their own parts based on a basic chart. He also mentions that it's important for everyone involved in the session to understand each other's mindset, behavior, and responsibility.

Arranging Music

• Studio musicians are expected to come up with their own parts based on a basic chart.

• It's important for everyone involved in the session to understand each other's mindset, behavior, and responsibility.

• The speaker was part of Quincy Jones' camp for three years and knows why he never had to write a bass part.

• A lot of LA and New York musicians are very good at arranging music.

Understanding Mindset, Behavior, and Responsibility

In this section, the speaker emphasizes the importance of understanding mindset, behavior, and responsibility when working as a studio musician. He explains that it's important for everyone involved in the session to be on time and professional.

Professionalism

• It's important for everyone involved in the session to be on time and professional.

• The contractor is responsible for finding out who will work best in each situation.

• There is a momentary thing of what to do and feel during sessions that cannot be described with words.

• Everyone needs to get into the mind of those who are hiring them.

Over-talking and Unconducive Behavior

In this section, the speaker discusses how some people tend to over-talk or say things that are not conducive to what needs to be done. This behavior is common among good musicians as well.

Reasons for Over-talking

• Some people want everyone to know that they are there.

• Good musicians also tend to over-talk.

Consequences of Over-talking

• People may not want to work with someone who over-talks or says things that are not conducive to what needs to be done.

• The speaker does not hire or fire anyone unless he is in charge. However, if he is just there and observes such behavior, he knows that the person will not be there tomorrow.

Rhythm Track Analysis

In this section, the speaker analyzes the rhythm track of a song called "Kid Charlemagne" and talks about the musicians who played on it.

Musicians Involved

• The rhythm track features the speaker and Bernard playing drums.

• Larry played rhythm guitar on the track.

Drum Part Analysis

• The drum part is unorthodox but grooving.

• It's hard to play mid-tempo songs like Bernard does while keeping them grooving.

• The drum part has many nuances and tricky Dicky stuff.

• Bernard and the speaker play with similar nuances because they are from the same planet.

Working with Jeff Porcaro and Silly Dan Jefferson Carroll

In this section, the speaker talks about his experience working with Jeff Porcaro and Silly Dan Jefferson Carroll before Toto was formed.

Jeff Porcaro's Channel

• The speaker remembers playing with Jeff Porcaro's channel.

• Silly Dan Jefferson Carroll was always the drummer on the demo if there was one.

• Jefferson Carroll was probably the only band member of Silly Dan that got along with Walter and Donald.

Pre-Toto Era

• The track being analyzed is from 1976, which predates Toto by a year or two.

Drum Track Playback

In this section, the speaker talks about how he played just the bass and drum tracks for Bernard to listen to and analyzes his own drumming style.

Drumming Style Analysis

• The speaker thinks that he and Bernard play with similar nuances because they are from the same planet.

• The speaker enjoys going back and forth doing many overdubs.

• If he had been told about a certain aspect of the song beforehand, he would have played differently.

Differences Between Quincy Jones and Gary Katz

In this section, the speaker talks about differences between Quincy Jones and Gary Katz as producers.

Producing Techniques

• Both Quincy Jones and Gary Katz have similar producing techniques.

• Quincy is an orchestrator who doesn't play any instruments but hires musicians that he knows will play well.

• Gary Katz is more pop-oriented than Quincy.

Onesie and R&B Producers

The speaker talks about working with a producer for an R&B artist who didn't always know what he was doing, but they never told him that. They discuss the importance of making the producer feel good and justifying their presence in the studio.

Working with Inexperienced Producers

• The speaker worked with a producer for an R&B artist who often didn't know what he was talking about.

• Sometimes, producers would ask for something different just to justify their presence in the studio.

• There are times when people have to "dumb down" to avoid making waves or causing discomfort in the studio.

• The speaker shares his experience at Motown where producers would have an entourage in the control room, doing things that don't make sense.

Emulating Other Bass Players

• The speaker talks about how other bass players have had to emulate his playing style, just as he has tried to emulate Jameson and Stanley Clark.

• He discusses how it's difficult to be yourself when trying to play like someone else, but sometimes producers will tell you to play what you want even if they can tell you're emulating someone else.

Conclusion

• The speaker concludes by saying that it's difficult to describe exactly what goes on in the studio because there are so many factors at play.

English Playing in C

Chuck Rainey talks about playing in the key of C.

Playing in C

• Chuck Rainey talks about playing in the key of C.

• He explains overdubbing and how it works when a track is already finished.

• The musicians play to a click track with other instruments, making it easy to overdub.

• Great dynamics are important when playing music.

• Chuck admits to making mistakes while playing, such as playing a wrong note at the end of Sanford and Son.

• A chart for a long song can be up to seven pages long.

Rig Setup

• Chuck used a P bass through DI and an amp. In New York, he used an mpb15 guitar amp, while in LA he had many different amps because he didn't have to carry them around.

• When recording tracks, Chuck preferred to use earphones instead of having an amplifier nearby. This allowed him to hear what was going on in the room without being too loud or distracting.

Tuning and Influences

In this section, the speaker talks about tuning and influences in music.

Tuning

• If you tune the string down, you can achieve a low ringing E-flat. The orchestrator may want this sound, so it's important to tune accordingly.

• Adopting a five-string bass requires practice as everything is a fourth off. It takes time to get used to the habit of your hand.

• Playing a five-string bass allows for lower notes like low B and C which can change the sound of recordings.

Influences

• The speaker was influenced by organ-based players in jazz and gospel music.

• Some of the speaker's favorite bass players include Ray Brown, Milt Hinton, Richard Davis, and Bob Crenshaw.

• Mingus played an electric bass once but gave it back after playing it once.

Timestamps were not available for some parts of the transcript.

Organ vs Upright Bass

In this section, the speaker discusses his preference for electric bass over organ and upright bass. He explains that upright basses are expensive and fragile, while organs are too cumbersome to carry around.

Upright Bass

• The speaker does not want to be bothered with an upright bass because they are expensive and fragile.

• The speaker explains that upright basses are acoustic instruments that can easily get damaged if there is a crack or hole in them.

• The speaker mentions that some Broadway musicians have upright basses that cost up to $100,000.

Electric Bass

• The only electric bass player the speaker can think of at the beginning of his career is James Jameson.

• The speaker admits he is not a good reader and cannot play some of the songs Anthony Jackson played with Chick Corea.

Learning to Read Music

In this section, the speaker talks about how he learned to read music after being fired from a gig for not being able to read notation.

• The speaker recalls getting fired from a gig at the Apollo Theater because he could not read notation on a book given to him by the conductor.

• After getting fired, the band members knew he could play but couldn't read music. They helped him learn by sending him downtown to Manny's Music store and getting him a book called "Trigger Happy" by Trigger Albert.

• Trumpet player Money Johnson told him that one note will always be an eight, which helped him learn to read music.

Chuck Berry's Career and Achievements

In this section, Chuck Berry talks about his career and achievements. He shares his experiences of receiving honorary degrees from Berkeley and Lane College, the pride he feels for his family, and the challenges that come with being a professional musician.

Honorary Degrees

• Chuck talks about receiving an honorary degree from Berkeley.

• He mentions that he will be receiving another honorary degree from Lane College in April.

• Chuck expresses how proud he is of his family for supporting him throughout his career.

Challenges of Being a Musician

• Chuck briefly mentions divorces as one of the many problems that come with being a musician.

• Despite the challenges, Chuck has enjoyed his career to the fullest and maintains a positive attitude towards life.

Reflection on Life

• Chuck reflects on the trials and tribulations he has faced throughout his life, including losing loved ones.

• He talks about turning 83 years old this year and how he never thought about living this long.

• Chuck emphasizes the importance of having a sense of humor in life and enjoying every moment.