S4 #061 NATO Cold War "Stay Behind" Patrols Operations

[Music] Welcome to 7 Minutes to Midnight Series

The episode delves into the stay-behind concept, focusing on its historical significance during the Cold War and its utilization by NATO for defensive strategies.

Understanding the Stay-Behind Concept

• The stay-behind concept operated beyond M lines across NATO nations, extending far beyond a small group.

• Tamas Sinai discusses the military and clandestine units involved in stay-behind operations during the Cold War.

• Researching such covert operations poses challenges due to limited disclosure even decades later.

Evolution of Tactics from World War II to Cold War

• Tactics and techniques developed during World War II were instrumental in shaping Cold War strategies.

• The clandestine aspects of stay-behind operations garnered attention post-Cold War, leading to further research and analysis.

NATO's Adoption of Stay-Behind Concept

• NATO integrated the stay-behind tactic into defense plans for Western Europe post-World War II.

• The need for accurate intelligence on Warsaw Pact movements drove NATO's reliance on special forces as eyes and ears on the ground.

Role of Special Forces in Stay-Behind Operations

• Special forces played a crucial role in reporting enemy movements, guiding strikes, and delaying advancing forces.

Detailed Discussion on Stay Behind Units

The discussion delves into the concept of stay behind units, their development by the US and UK, the distinction between different types of special forces, and the strategic roles these units played during conflicts.

Development of Stay Behind Units

• Allies led by the US and UK developed the stay behind concept as part of war planning.

• Special Forces were categorized into deep infiltration-capable units like 22 SAS and US Special Forces with distinct roles.

• Special Forces focused on infiltrating deep behind enemy lines for strategic strikes rather than traditional stay-behind missions.

Varied Roles of Specialized Forces

• Some units had secondary stay-behind missions in addition to their primary roles.

• Distinction made between being "special forces" and a "specialist force" with unique roles within operations.

NATO's Strategic Planning

• NATO's strategy involved enabling forces to counter potential attacks while also planning clandestine networks for resistance in occupied territories.

• Civilian stay behind networks supported Western Allied special forces in conducting sabotage missions deep within enemy territory.

Historical Roots of Stay Behind Units

This segment explores the origins of stay behind units from World War II experiences, emphasizing long-range reconnaissance, special operations units, and clandestine resistance networks.

World War II Influence

• Long-range reconnaissance and special operations units like SAS, Commandos, and SOE played crucial roles during WWII.

• Post-WWII transformation of SOE unit MI9 into military unit 23 SAS for NATO's Northern Army Group highlighted direct links to WWII experiences.

Evolution from Second World War

• Major General Colin Gubbins' post-WWII planning laid foundations for Special Operations Branch training agents for clandestine operations.

Special Forces Operations and Cold War Strategies

The discussion delves into the role of Special Forces operations during the Cold War, particularly focusing on the skepticism faced by these units and their strategic importance in countering the Warsaw Pact threat.

Skepticism Towards Special Forces Operations

• Conventional Army commanders viewed Special Forces with skepticism post-World War II, leading to their quick disbandment.

• Despite initial skepticism, there was a rapid establishment of Special Forces units due to desperation caused by the overwhelming numerical superiority of the Warsaw Pact.

Role of Clandestine Stay Behind Units

• Clandestine stay behind units were welcomed for retarding Warsaw Pact advances, operating without extensive political oversight.

• US played a fundamental role in defining stay behind military concepts for NATO during the Cold War.

Challenges Faced by Royal Artillery

• The Royal Artillery resisted embracing stay behind operations due to traditional views and lack of resources.

• Contrasting approaches between American and British armies regarding unconventional forces post-World War II.

Strategic Focus and Rebirth of Special Units

This segment explores strategic postures adopted by different nations during the Cold War era, emphasizing covert operations and special unit rebirth.

American Strategic Posture

• US focused on reducing unconventional forces post-WWII but maintained small force multipliers for strategic targets and morale purposes.

Covert Operations Strategy

• American strategic focus post-WWII aimed at utilizing covert operations to assist in defeating USSR militarily, prioritizing retardation of Soviet advance in Western Europe.

UK Defense Plans

• In the 1950s, UK's defense plan involved using natural obstacles like River Rhine as a main line of defense against potential threats from East Germany.

Rebirth of Special Boat Service and Target Acquisition Capabilities

This part discusses the revival of specialized military units like the Special Boat Service (SBS), highlighting their crucial role in target acquisition for strategic strikes during the Cold War.

Revival of SBS

• The SBS was reestablished as part of BA with a focus on destroying bridges along River Rhine to impede Soviet navigation.

Target Acquisition Capabilities

Preventing War and Cold War Tactics

The discussion revolves around preventing war by hindering forces from crossing easily, forcing them to conduct amphibious or bridging exercises. Cold War tactics are highlighted, with a focus on defensive strategies like minefields used by the Russians in Ukraine.

Preventing War Through Tactics

• Forces can be deterred from crossing easily by compelling them to engage in amphibious or bridging exercises.

• Reference to Cold War tactics resurfacing, such as the defensive line built by Russians in Ukraine involving extensive minefields.

• Emphasis on the significance of old Soviet tactics like mass artillery and deep strikes being relevant even today.

Importance of Intelligence Gathering

The conversation delves into the critical role of intelligence gathering in military operations, highlighting its importance over direct combat actions.

Intelligence Gathering for Military Success

• While soldiers enjoy combat, a major part of their job involves intelligence gathering for identifying enemy capabilities.

• Drawing parallels between long-range desert groups' work during World War II and modern technical surveillance tasks requiring discipline and patience.

Lessons from History for Future Warfare

Reflecting on historical lessons from past wars, particularly World War II, and how they can inform future warfare strategies against peer-to-peer armies like the Russians.

Learning from History for Future Conflict

• Acknowledgment that Western Special Forces could learn valuable lessons from Ukrainians regarding Special Operation Forces and fighting Russian forces effectively.

• Highlighting the neglect of crucial skills post-Cold War era such as air defense and massed artillery impact in battles.

NATO's Coordination Efforts

Exploring NATO's role in coordinating war-fighting efforts through clandestine planning committees and allied coordination groups to ensure effective communication and collaboration during wartime scenarios.

NATO's Coordination Mechanisms

• Creation of clandestine planning committees within NATO headquarters to coordinate military and clandestine efforts including communication networks.

Mindboggling Details of NATO and Ukraine

The discussion delves into the intricate details of NATO's involvement with Ukraine, contrasting it with the depth of planning seen in historical concepts like civilian stay-behind operations.

NATO's Involvement and Historical Concepts

• Detailed planning contrasts current NATO-Ukraine artillery shipment issues with the meticulous approach to historical concepts like civilian stay-behind operations.

• Historical examples, such as Norway's secret renovation activities for resistance support, highlight the depth of secrecy and dedication in implementing such strategies.

• Lack of comprehensive understanding among Western allies about each other's roles in stay-behind operations underscores the complexity and secrecy surrounding these initiatives.

Evolution of Clandestine Operations

The conversation shifts towards the evolution of clandestine operations within NATO, emphasizing a transition from military command oversight to national intelligence services' responsibility.

Transition to National Responsibility

• By the early 1960s, clandestine intelligence services took over from NATO military commanders in managing covert operations, marking a shift towards national responsibility for such endeavors.

• Secrecy surrounding these networks was compromised by an East German Stasi officer's propaganda book in 1961, revealing aspects of sabotage troops aligned with NATO but operated independently.

Soviet Experience and Allied Units

Insights into Soviet experiences during World War II shed light on their familiarity with behind-enemy-lines operations, influencing their perspective on stay-behind activities.

Soviet Influence and Allied Units

• Soviets' wartime experience fighting resistance armies behind German lines provided them with insights into stay-behind operations, despite potential differences in recognition at that time.

Military Unit Formation Post-War

The discussion delves into the perception of specialist military units post-war, particularly in Germany, and how the formation of such units was viewed.

Specialist Military Units Perception

• There was skepticism post-war about raising specialist units in Germany due to the negative view towards anything special or elitist.

• Special or elitist formations were frowned upon in Germany during the Cold War era, leading to the unnoticed formation of these units without significant opposition.

• In the 70s and 80s, there was a general disdain for anything related to uniforms among young pacifists.

Formation of Specialized Units

This segment explores the establishment and evolution of specialized military units, shedding light on specific instances and transitions within these forces.

Evolution of Specialized Units

• The Royal Armored Corps initiated a stay-behind unit but disbanded it after two years, passing its role entirely to 23 SAS.

• The senior element of the Royal Armored Corps believed that certain roles should be handled by specialized units like parachute squadrons.

• In 1965, the Royal Armored Corps established its first squadron for airborne forces since disbanding the 16th Airborne Division.

NATO's International Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol School

This part focuses on NATO's school for long-range reconnaissance patrols and highlights collaborative training efforts among various elite military units.

NATO Training School

• The NATO International Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol School was founded in Vinearden with participation from elite units like SAS, German F Bear, Dutch Marines, Belgium Pal Commandos, and US Special Forces.

• Training at the school included long-range reconnaissance, combat survival, escape and evasion courses, resistance to interrogation, advanced signal recognition skills, and close-quarter battle courses.

Detailed Insights into Training and Organizations

In this section, the speaker discusses their experiences with training courses, particularly in escaping and evasion. They delve into the intense training provided by elite forces like GSG9, emphasizing the practical and rigorous nature of the exercises.

Elite Training Experience

• The speaker underwent an escaping and evasion course with GSG9, highlighting the intensity of the training provided by elite forces.

Importance of Realistic Training

• The training sessions were conducted realistically, simulating anti-terrorism scenarios to prepare individuals for high-stress situations.

International Collaboration in Training

• Emphasis is placed on the value of mixed teams from various nations participating in training programs to enhance skills and foster collaboration.

Insights into Clandestine Organizations

This segment delves into clandestine organizations, focusing on their historical significance and operational aspects during conflicts. The discussion sheds light on the role of these organizations in intelligence operations.

Establishment of Clandestine Networks

• General Sir John Harding's call in 1952 for creating a German stay-behind sabotage organization underscores early efforts to establish clandestine networks.

Coordination with Intelligence Services

• British and American intelligence services played a crucial role in assisting states to develop clandestine organizations within occupied territories.

Role During Conflict Phases

• Clandestine organizations primarily focused on survival during initial conflict phases before transitioning to supporting special forces units for strategic operations.

Occupational Power and Countermeasures

The discussion delves into the Soviet Union as an occupational power and the countermeasures employed to address security risks.

Soviet Occupation Power

• The Soviet Union, as an occupational power, was considered ruthless and authoritarian, with a history of torture and information extraction.

Countermeasures Employed

• Western forces utilized tactics such as searching for hidden observation posts using K9 dogs like the Mark 1 K9 dog.

• Exercise in 1973 revealed the effectiveness of using dogs to discover hidden troops in training areas.

Strategies for Concealment and Communication

Strategies related to concealing shelters, communication methods, and challenges faced during operations are discussed.

Shelter Concealment Strategies

• Two shelter concepts were used: one involving massive Mexi shelters on wood lines in the early '70s, while another adopted in 1982 placed large mixi shelters deep in woods with forward Satellite Ops.

Communication Challenges

• Signal exposure was a concern due to HF antennas requiring operators to leave hides; additionally, Soviet signal intelligence capabilities posed a threat.

Operational Tactics and Secrecy Measures

Operational tactics, prepositioning of hides, and maintaining secrecy during operations are highlighted.

Operational Tactics

• Western forces had the advantage of area operation flexibility by placing hides strategically upon arrival rather than prepositioning them.

Secrecy Measures

• Maintaining secrecy was crucial due to espionage threats; concealing defensive equipment and operational details ensured operational success.

Skillful Concealment Techniques

Skillful concealment techniques employed by units for successful hide concealment are discussed.

Skillful Concealment

• Units demonstrated high skill levels by effectively hiding underground mixi shelters in woods without detection during exercises like reforger.

Equipment Usage and Methods Employed

Discussion on equipment usage including Maxi shelters along with methods employed during operations is presented.

Equipment Usage

Detailed Discussion on Cold War-era Equipment and Tactics

In this section, the conversation delves into the equipment and tactics used during the Cold War era, particularly focusing on clandestine operations and stay-behind organizations.

Development of Communication Systems

• The system involved digging a hole to build a frame for holding soil, reflecting the primitive technology of that time.

• Mention of wet filament, analog systems, M code, and limited communication capabilities compared to modern times.

Evolution of Radio Communication

• Introduction of RS6 radio in the early 50s by CIA for agents abroad, followed by German development of cryptographically protected digital systems like Harpoon.

• Adoption of Harpoon as a means of communication for civilian stay-behind assets in 1991 with enhanced capabilities for encrypted messages over long distances.

Discoveries in Equipment Caches

• Unearthing equipment caches containing pistols, ammunition, knives, navigation tools, spy radios like RS6, manuals on tank recognition, brandy flask, chocolate, and Total Resistance manual.

• Findings expanded to include St submachine guns, FN high power pistols, plastic explosives from the 50s to 90s showcasing classic World War II agent gear.

Insights into Nuclear Warfare Training Manuals

This segment explores references to nuclear warfare training manuals utilized by clandestine organizations during the Cold War period.

Nuclear Warfare Training Handbook

• Mention of a CIA handbook on nuclear warfare written in the 1950s with details on damage assessments post-nuclear strikes.

• Emphasis on classification allowing passage to foreign clandestine services or nationals including stay-behind organizations for strategic knowledge dissemination.

Specialized Training in Damage Assessment

• Stay-behind organizations trained in conducting damage assessments after nuclear strikes highlighting their preparedness for unconventional warfare scenarios.

Detailed Discussion on Nuclear Demolition Units

The discussion delves into the preparations made for demolitions involving nuclear weapons, particularly focusing on the role of special Atomic demolition units and the concerns raised by the German government regarding the use of nuclear weapons on German soil.

Preparations for Demolitions

• Specialized teams, including demolition experts and reservists, were responsible for preparing bridges with nuclear munitions for potential detonation.

• American special forces in Germany handled special Atomic demolition units like suitcase bombs, which could potentially be used by British forces under nuclear sharing agreements.

Concerns and Policy Changes

• Access to American nuclear weapons under NATO agreements extended to allies like the Netherlands and Germany until the 1970s when German apprehensions about nuclear weapon deployment arose.

• Chancellor Schmidt's policy shift in the '70s halted early release of nuclear weapons to theater commanders, emphasizing German government approval for any use of such weaponry.

Evolution of War Tactics: Stay Behind Concept

The conversation explores the concept of stay-behind forces as a war tactic during different political eras, highlighting shifts in strategy towards engaging enemy forces proactively rather than defensively.

Tactical Evolution

• Transition from defensive strategies to proactive engagement seen in NATO exercises where forces aimed to charge forward aggressively rather than retreat or delay battles.

• Introduction of maneuver warfare tactics by British forces signified a shift towards engaging enemies at borders actively instead of holding them back passively.

Relevance of Stay-Behind Forces Today

Evaluating the contemporary relevance of stay-behind concepts in modern warfare scenarios, considering factors like peer-to-peer campaigns and hybrid attacks that challenge traditional defense strategies.

Modern Warfare Considerations

• Acknowledgment of stay-behind tactics as risky yet potentially impactful war strategies hinging on evading countermeasures against adversaries like Russia.

Detailed Analysis of Warfare Strategies

The discussion delves into the strategies and tactics employed in warfare, particularly focusing on the context of conflicts such as the Cold War and the ongoing war in Ukraine.

Russian Warfare Techniques

• In a peer-against-peer war scenario, similar to the Cold War, Russian expertise in signals intelligence and electronic warfare poses significant risks.

• Ukrainian partisans and Special Forces play a crucial role in conducting deep strikes using drone surveillance for target acquisition, highlighting the importance of intelligence sharing for successful strikes.

Future Conflict Preparation

• Emphasizes the relevance of current warfare tactics seen in Ukraine for future conflicts, stressing the need to adapt and utilize these strategies effectively before conflicts escalate into full-scale wars.

Gray Zone Warfare

• Discusses "gray zone" warfare practiced by Russians involving plausible deniability and deception techniques reminiscent of historical practices like masarova, emphasizing the necessity to counter such tactics effectively.

• Advocates for learning to operate within this gray zone to effectively combat Russian forces utilizing deceptive strategies.

Insights on Stay Behind Operations

Explores stay-behind operations with a focus on historical contexts and their potential application in modern conflicts like those seen in Ukraine.

Historical Context

• References episodes 2 to 6 discussing the history of special op troop evolving into 473 special op battery from 1982 until just before the fall of the Berlin Wall, providing a comprehensive account of its evolution.

Acknowledgment and Appreciation

• Expresses gratitude for expertise shared during discussions on stay-behind operations, acknowledging its significance in military history and personal journeys within military contexts.

Upcoming Episode Preview: Korean War

Teases an upcoming episode focusing on proxy wars like the Korean War between Western powers and communism, inviting listeners to engage with future content.

Previewing Next Episode

• Previews next episode centered around exploring proxy wars like the Korean War as pivotal moments reflecting global power struggles between Western ideologies and communism.

Call-to-action