How Revolut trains world-class PMs: The “Local CEO” model, raw intellect & building wow products

Revolut's Approach to Product Development and Hiring

The Value of Raw Intellect Over Experience

• Revolut prioritizes raw intellect and a strong desire to build over traditional experience in hiring product managers.

• The company emphasizes the importance of creating high-quality products that users love, cutting down on uncertainty by focusing on essential features without compromising quality or user experience.

Insights from Dmitry Zlokazov

• Dmitry Zlokazov, global head of product at Revolut, discusses the company's innovative approach to product management and leadership.

• Research indicates that Revolut ranks highly among companies that successfully hire and develop top product managers, alongside Palantir and Intercom.

Understanding Revolut's Market Position

• The podcast aims to provide insights for those looking to advance their careers in product management or enhance their teams' capabilities.

• Listeners are encouraged to subscribe for additional resources related to product management.

Stripe's Role in Supporting Businesses

• Stripe is highlighted as a key partner for many successful companies due to its exceptional talent pool and innovative products.

• Stripe Billing offers flexible billing solutions used by numerous well-known companies, showcasing its impact on revenue acceleration.

Overview of Revolut's Services

• Dmitry explains that Revolut operates across 50 countries, challenging traditional banking models with a focus on transparency and simplicity.

Revolut's Growth and Product Management Philosophy

Overview of Revolut's Expansion

• The emergence of P2P transfers led to seamless crypto buying and bank withdrawals, resulting in a variety of financial products being developed.

• As of now, Revolut has approximately 6,000 to 7,000 employees, with a valuation around $60 billion. The company aims to maintain a lean workforce despite its growth ambitions.

Product Ownership Structure

• At Revolut, product managers are referred to as "product owners," emphasizing their ownership role rather than merely following scrum methodologies.

• Product owners are crucial for the company's growth; they manage teams, define roadmaps for business metrics improvement, and contribute to high-level strategies while executing them effectively.

Role and Responsibilities of Product Owners

• Each product owner acts as a "local CEO," leading cross-functional teams that include engineers, data analysts, designers, and operational managers.

• There are three types of product owners: UX product owners (focusing on user experience), technical product owners (with engineering backgrounds), and data science product owners (who transition from data science roles).

Skills Required for Effective Product Ownership

• Common skills across all types of product owners include problem-solving abilities, empathy towards customers, deep understanding of details in their domain, and strong business acumen.

• Successful product owners must be technically proficient enough to engage with engineers directly and understand the intricacies involved in building products.

Illustrative Example of Deep Engagement

• To provide optimal services across various countries, compliance with local regulations is essential. This involves launching branches in different regions while managing numerous nested projects efficiently.

Framework for Scaling Product Development

Ideal Framework for Product Development

• The discussion begins with the need to establish an ideal framework for scaling product development, formalizing it into a structured process akin to an algorithm.

• Emphasis is placed on balancing deep dives into details with a broader perspective, simplifying complex processes while ensuring scalability.

Key Attributes of Successful Product Owners

• Successful product owners exhibit strong ownership over their products, which fosters skills necessary for leadership roles in other companies.

• A critical aspect of their success is the ability to understand complex problems deeply, preparing them for future challenges in different environments.

Focus on Creating "Wow" Products

• An obsession with building "wow" products is highlighted as essential; this includes not just functionality but also aesthetics and user experience.

• Revolut prioritizes creating a frictionless app experience that resonates emotionally with users, contributing significantly to customer satisfaction and loyalty.

Handling Complexity and Context

• The ability to manage extensive context and consider second-order effects from multiple perspectives is crucial for product managers at Revolut.

Operationalizing Product Excellence

Team Structure and Responsibilities

• Revolut operates through small, lean teams responsible for end-to-end product development, fostering accountability and innovation.

• The company maintains a flat hierarchy where founders are actively involved in reviewing all products, ensuring high standards are met consistently.

Founder Involvement in Product Review

• Founders review every screen before it goes live, providing valuable feedback that helps address potential issues early on. This thorough scrutiny ensures customer satisfaction across all products.

Hiring Practices at Revolut

Composition of Product Ownership Team

• There are over 150 product owners at Revolut, categorized into various types including engineering-focused and data-driven roles.

Traits Over Experience in Hiring

• When hiring UX-focused product owners, intrinsic traits such as passion for building are prioritized over extensive prior experience.

Internal Transfers as a Source of Talent

The Path to Successful Product Management

Growth and Development in Product Management

• Operations managers or engineers often transition into product management roles, leading to successful career paths.

• At Revolut, product owners experience significant ownership, depth, complexity, and a focus on creating lovable products.

• Palantir employs forward-deployed engineers who work closely with clients to build empathy and understand customer problems.

Customer Engagement Strategies

• Revolut benefits from a large customer base (over 50 million), making it easier for product owners to engage directly with users.

• Tools have been developed at Revolut for product owners and designers to easily access user panels for feedback through surveys and interviews.

• Direct communication with customers is emphasized as crucial for capturing nuanced feedback that might be lost when filtered through intermediaries.

Contrasting Approaches: Palantir vs. Revolut

• Unlike Palantir's government-focused products which lack direct user engagement, Revolut's team members are active users of their own product.

• This difference reduces the need for dedicated forward-deployed engineers at Revolut due to the inherent accessibility of customer feedback.

Hiring Practices at Revolut

Unique Hiring Philosophy

• Revolut prioritizes raw intellect and a strong desire to build over extensive experience when hiring new talent.

• Experienced professionals may take longer to adapt due to established habits; thus, less experienced but passionate candidates are preferred.

Characteristics of Ideal Candidates

• Candidates with startup experience or those who have built things themselves tend to thrive at Revolut due to their problem-solving mindset.

• Individuals who demonstrate an eagerness to tackle specific problems quickly gain respect within the company by delivering solutions effectively.

Career Growth Opportunities

Recruitment Strategies and Team Management

Sourcing Talent Effectively

• The recruitment team operates in sprints, focusing on specific areas and companies each week to identify potential candidates.

• Great sources for talent include successful products and apps; high-performing individuals often come from these environments.

• Companies are evaluated based on their functions that contribute to success, such as sales or design, guiding the sourcing strategy.

Stripe's Role in Business Growth

• Stripe is highlighted as a key player in monetizing AI products, processing $1.4 trillion annually—over 1% of global GDP.

• Stripe Billing supports various pricing models for over 300,000 companies, enhancing revenue management and customer billing processes.

Unique Approaches to Product Team Management

• The speaker discusses a contrarian approach to managing product teams at Revolut, emphasizing deep involvement rather than high-level oversight.

• At Revolut, the focus is on a select few impactful projects (7 to 10), allowing for thorough understanding and engagement with engineering teams.

Deep Dive into Project Management

• Managers often avoid details due to fear of missing issues; however, going deep into fewer projects fosters better communication among teams.

• This method signals expectations regarding quality and execution across all teams while promoting discipline within the organization.

Leadership Structure at Revolut

• The speaker manages product functions directly but collaborates with heads of other departments like design; engineering reports directly to the CEO.

Approaches to Product Management and Growth at Revolut

Different Approaches to Involvement in Product Development

• The discussion contrasts Brian Chesky's approach of reducing activities at Airbnb for deeper involvement with a more scalable method that allows for extensive product development while focusing on key priorities.

• Emphasizes the importance of autonomy for product owners, highlighting that accountability exists without micromanagement, allowing teams to operate independently while still being challenged.

Autonomy and Accountability in Teams

• Product owners are expected to justify their decisions logically, which builds trust even if metrics aren't immediately favorable. Weekly reviews serve as a control mechanism rather than micromanagement.

• Founders maintain oversight but empower teams through autonomy, leading to rapid growth and innovation within the company. This structure enables Revolut to ship products faster than traditional banks.

Scalability Through Platform Investment

• Revolut invests heavily in scalable platforms, avoiding custom solutions. This strategy allows small teams (around 300 people) to launch new financial products across multiple countries efficiently.

• A comprehensive list of products offered by Revolut includes credit cards, savings accounts, stock trading, loans, and more—demonstrating the breadth of services available across various jurisdictions.

Addressing Market Inefficiencies

• The concept of "schlep blindness" is introduced; it refers to avoiding difficult problems where significant opportunities lie. Revolut aims to tackle these challenges head-on.

• With customer growth from 20 million to 50 million projected soon reaching 100 million, there’s potential for substantial increases in both user base and engagement with the platform.

Future Growth Potential and Hiring Needs

• The speaker notes that there's room for exponential growth not just in customer numbers but also in how actively users engage with Revolut's offerings.

Innovative Banking Solutions and Product Development

Disruption in the European Market

• A bank leveraging cryptocurrency has achieved significant success by offering non-financial services, such as hotel bookings through the Revolut app, alongside a loyalty program that rewards card spending.

• Unlike the US market, where cashback rewards are common, Europe lacks substantial benefits for card users. The bank aims to fill this gap with meaningful monetary rewards.

Framework for New Ideas

• The organization employs a "new bets" framework allowing anyone within the company to propose ideas, provided they demonstrate market viability and a solid business case.

• Minimal bureaucracy facilitates quick decision-making and product launches. Teams are kept lean to develop initial versions rapidly while iterating based on user feedback.

Focus on Quality Over Speed

• Emphasis is placed on creating high-quality products rather than just scrappy MVPs (Minimum Viable Products). This approach helps mitigate uncertainty regarding product traction.

• By ensuring that all products meet high standards of quality and user experience, the bank can confidently launch features that resonate with customers.

Integration of Features

• The bank's strategy involves launching products that customers already desire but enhancing them through seamless integration with existing services.

• While striving for excellence in every product, there’s an understanding that even if one feature isn't top-tier, overall service quality can still satisfy users.

Competitive Edge in Basic Services

• Essential banking features like savings accounts are offered with competitive rates and superior user experiences compared to traditional banks.

• Additional offerings include multi-currency savings accounts and innovative features like customizable interfaces and automated savings tools to enhance customer satisfaction.

Synergies Between Products

• The interconnectedness of various banking services allows for unique functionalities, such as converting cryptocurrency into cash seamlessly or using it directly for purchases.

Insights on Product Leadership and Hiring

Key Aspects of Successful Product Management

• Emphasizes the importance of ownership in product management, where individuals act as General Managers (GMs) for their respective products or features.

• Highlights the need for depth and complexity in problem-solving, aiming to create "wow" products that are both lovable and meet high standards.

• Stresses the significance of detail orientation, including technical understanding and customer empathy to ensure products meet diverse user needs.

• Mentions compliance with regulations as a necessary but often overlooked aspect of product development, alongside simplifying user experiences.

• Discusses the role of product owners in unblocking teams by navigating stakeholder approvals efficiently to deliver value to customers.

The Importance of Execution in Product Ownership

• Identifies raw intellect, drive, hunger, and passion as key traits sought during hiring processes for product roles.

• Notes that successful product owners are hands-on; they actively engage in tasks rather than merely delegating responsibilities.

• Underlines relentless focus on execution; if a project is perceived as 99% complete, it may still be far from finished without proper implementation across teams.

• Explains that even well-built products can fail if not fully utilized by support teams like customer care or marketing.

Personal Journey into FinTech at Revolut

• Shares personal experience moving to the UK and transitioning into the FinTech industry with Revolut amidst significant life changes.

• Reflects on how this fresh perspective allowed him to identify areas for improvement within the Revolut app compared to traditional banking products.

Learning from Failures: A Candid Reflection

• Introduces "Fail Corner," a segment focused on discussing failures encountered throughout one's career journey.

Building a Digital Ticketing System: Lessons Learned

The Initial Vision and Challenges

• The speaker discusses the early days of creating a digital ticketing system, emphasizing the need for both software (a website) and hardware (ticket scanners) to facilitate ticket sales.

• They describe the innovative approach of sending QR codes via SMS to accommodate users who did not have smartphones, highlighting their resourcefulness in overcoming technological limitations.

• Despite their excitement and investment in hardware, they faced low customer adoption rates for online ticket purchases, leading to financial difficulties and eventual closure of the project.

• A key takeaway from this experience was the importance of validating business models before scaling operations; they learned that staying lean is crucial for startup success.

• The speaker reflects on how this painful lesson has influenced their future decisions, particularly avoiding hardware projects due to inherent challenges.

Insights on Entrepreneurship

• In summarizing their journey, the speaker encourages aspiring entrepreneurs to pursue their passions through startups as it offers significant learning opportunities.

• They advise choosing companies with strong entrepreneurial spirits if one opts to work within an organization, as this can provide experiences akin to being a founder.

Recommended Readings

• The first book recommended is "The Hard Thing About Hard Things" by Ben Horowitz. It emphasizes that great product managers should think like CEOs and highlights the necessity of systematic solutions for scaling businesses.

• Another recommendation is "Build" by Tony Fadell. The speaker finds inspiration in Fadell's insights about building hardware and identifies himself as a builder rather than a disruptor.

Personal Reflections

• When discussing personal interests, the speaker mentions enjoying biopics like "Oppenheimer," which provide valuable perspectives on historical events.

Favorite Tools and Life Philosophy

• They express admiration for Manus, an AI tool that impressed them with its capabilities. They share an example of using it to create a JavaScript app that sends them new English words daily.

Exploring Innovative Features in Revolut

Wealth Protection Feature

• The wealth protection feature is highlighted as a lesser-known but valuable tool within Revolut, allowing users to set limits on transfers outside the platform.

• To execute a transfer exceeding this limit, users must complete a video selfie check, utilizing proprietary technology that ensures secure transactions by verifying user identity.

• This verification process is designed to be user-friendly and efficient, comparable to Face ID in terms of smoothness and ease of use.

Closing Thoughts and Engagement

• Dmitry expresses gratitude for the discussion, emphasizing the importance of sharing insights that can help companies enhance their product strategies.

• He encourages listeners to connect with him via LinkedIn for feedback on product improvements or potential job referrals for suitable candidates at Revolut.